58 replies to this topic

[FredrikB]

Just saw this thread at the Swedish F1BB from a weekend at SPA with a load of Ferrari F1 cars.
Check the pictures and especially the one at the bottom of the page
WTH happend there?

/Fredrik

[Enkei]

Originally posted by FredrikB
Just saw this thread at the Swedish F1BB from a weekend at SPA with a load of Ferrari F1 cars.
Check the pictures and especially the one at the bottom of the page
WTH happend there?

/Fredrik

That's a weird picture. It looks like the monocoque just broke in two

[Slumberer]

Ahhhh the new Ferrari test driver: Mr. F Flintstone.

[Viktor]

It was not at Spa, it was Laguna Seca, http://www.crash.net...cid=26&fid=5648

The entire Ferrari Formula One field ran exhibition/demonstration laps Saturday midday, with at least one driver demonstrating how it was not to be done. FREDERICO KROYMANS of Holland crashed his #3 1999 F399 Ferrari in Turn Six. Kroymans was unhurt, save for a sore knee, but the car will need a severe rhinoplasty. When JIM BUSBY' s#5 1997 D310B came around the bend he saw the crashed car and stopped to help. Busby said the driver was slumped over with his legs sticking out. Kroymans sat up with a start upon seeing Busby, unhooked his seatbelts and got up. He was walking around when the San Francisco Region SCCA emergency crew arrived. The car was towed in and quickly covered by the Ferrari crew. Busby said Kroymans was fortunate he was in such a stout, well-made car.

/Viktor

[mach4]

Originally posted by Viktor
Busby said Kroymans was fortunate he was in such a stout, well-made car.

and I wonder if that F399 was still up to F1 safety standards or if some modifications were done

[lustigson]

Very, very weird indeed.

Looks like the monocoque broke in two, like someone above said. However, mr. Kroymans Jr. lucky not to have hit anything head on in/after the crash with his legs sticking out like that.

[Menace]

[UreaBorealis]

Surely the chassis must have been fatigued or modified. Still a huge

[FredrikB]

Originally posted by Viktor
It was not at Spa, it was Laguna Seca, http://www.crash.net...cid=26&fid=5648


/Viktor

I guess the first pics are from SPA, just the crash pic is from Laguna Seca.
Wasn't mentioned there so i missed it.
And we still can't change thread headlines?


/Fredrik

[Witt]

IIRC, not the first time an F399 has had issues with frontal impact protecting legs. Makes you wonder??? Thankfully it wasn't worse for Mr Kroymans, or Mr Schumacher, for that matter.

[NeilB]

Didnt Ross Brawn say that the monocoque on Schumacher's car split in two when he crashed at Silverstone?

[Fortymark]

What a nice cut, that monocoque must be split in two halfes when you see that picture.
Maybe he braught an showcar and build an racecar out of that one...

[Ghostrider]

What a picture!

[Megatron]

Its such an incredibly clean cut it looks as if someone sawed it off. Obviously they didn't, but what I mean is that it obviously had some sort of strucual failure. They are not supposed to break like that.

That is really a weird looking aftermath of an accident. One can assume that most F399s have the tub in common so in 20/20 hiendsight, it looks like Schumacher was lucky to get off with just a broken leg.

[StickShift]

You also have to remember Laguna Seca has a lot of concrete walls right up against the side of the track without any tyre walls or safety measures.

[wati]

Hey guys, take a look at that swedish bb again. There are two pics of f399's. And they are totally different (rear wheel winglets, side head protection endings...). It has to be some kind of a showcar.

[xflow7]

From a thread on this that appeared on another forum I read:

After a few minutes of research:

It seems that Kroyman's F399 is chassis #193, which happens to be the same car that Michael Schumacher crashed into the barriers at the British Grand Prix in 1999, breaking his leg. According to Autosport, "There is concern over the monocoque breaking at just 66.5 MPH" (his impact speed with the tyre wall). So - we know that car had a cracked monocoque. Who repaired it, was it properly repaired, did Ferrari give the car their OK to compete again?

Some insight perhaps.

[cozworth]

Did anybody notice from the pics on that swedish BB, one of the narrow track F1 chassis was running with slick tyres!

[madmax]

Meybe the car had been lengthened to fit for a taller driver.

[El Magnificante]

Did anyone check for a missing hacksaw in Ron Dennis' tool box?

[Mosquito]

Originally posted by xflow7
From a thread on this that appeared on another forum I read:

After a few minutes of research:

It seems that Kroyman's F399 is chassis #193, which happens to be the same car that Michael Schumacher crashed into the barriers at the British Grand Prix in 1999, breaking his leg. According to Autosport, "There is concern over the monocoque breaking at just 66.5 MPH" (his impact speed with the tyre wall). So - we know that car had a cracked monocoque. Who repaired it, was it properly repaired, did Ferrari give the car their OK to compete again?

Some insight perhaps.

Schumacher crashed the #193 chassis in Silverstone. The next race on the A1 ring, Salo was racing #195.

Then it becomes a bit odd. In Hockenheim, Salo raced the #193 chassis again which was obviously repaired by then which answers the question as in "Ferrari repaired it". Next, at the Hungaroring, Salo used the #195 chassis, then in Spa it was back to the repaired #193 one. From Monza on, only the #195 chassis was used (Salo 2x, MS 2x).

If the initial repair was already dodgy, then Ferrari risked Salo in a badly repaired car at least twice in race conditions. Most odd I find is that they would use that #193 chassis at all in a race after repair.

[A3]

El Mag

No way that's the original monocoque from an F399. They're baked and there's no way such a clean cut can occur in a crash.

And I also suspect the impact wasn't that big, otherwise Kroymans would have been seriously hurt.

Kroymans is the official Ferrari importer for the Netherlands, btw.

Edit: Here's what the chassis looked like after Schumacher's crash. Looks familiar eh.

[madmax]

I agree with A3. No way they would repair and reuse a monocoque that was so badly damaged and resulted in Michael's broken leg. They would write it off.

[Witt]

Those bargeboards look like a technical infringement waiting to happen...

[Schumi Fan]

Did anyone notice this?

That race was won by CAMERON HEALY of Portland OR in his 1953 Pooper.



(Last paragraph on 1st page)
http://www.crash.net...cid=26&fid=5648

[A3]

Originally posted by madmax
I agree with A3. No way they would repair and reuse a monocoque that was so badly damaged and resulted in Michael's broken leg. They would write it off.

I should have edited more in my previous post. When I wrote it I didn't realise it was the car Schumacher crashed in. So, as Mosquito says, the car has been repaired and re-used, but one would assume that they would just bake a new monocoque. But then again, with a new monocoque comes a new chassis number I think. Very weird.

[Zeus]

I think it must have been modified, perhaps so a tall driver could fit. I can't see how it would break off that clean, and in that spot with the drivers legs exposed. As A3 stated, it was obviously a low speed crash, or he would not be walking anymore.

[917k]

I don't think the monocoque is spliced in 2 pieces,especially not at that point.Ahead of the footwell,yes,but the actual survival cell is a single structure,isn't it?

There is no way the cell would have a fracture point right where the driver sits.[IMO]

[FredrikB]

Look at the picture of MS car above again.
I think it looks eeringly similar to where the car in the Laguna Seca crash broke.

I guess the only way we will know is if a Ferrari engineer told us his thoughts...

/Fredrik

[Zeus]

I think the monocoque broke much farther back in the LS crash. In the Silverstone shot you can see the SF shield and more, whereas none of that is visable in the LS shot.

[Viktor]

Did Schumachers car break or was it take apart by the doctors?

/Viktor

[Enkei]

http://forum.gamers....tid=34386&stc=1
http://www.autoracin...fedferrari2.jpg

[FredrikB]

Originally posted by Enkei
http://forum.gamers....tid=34386&stc=1
http://www.autoracin...fedferrari2.jpg

Jeez, someone forgot a bolt or two...
Doesn't even look like heavy impact!

/Fredrik

[Vilenova]

Whoa. That is a scary sight.

I have a noob question though.
What is the monocoque made of? Why don't we see any roll cage material there?

[Enkei]

Originally posted by Vilenova
Whoa. That is a scary sight.

I have a noob question though.
What is the monocoque made of? Why don't we see any roll cage material there?

Carbonfibre I guess.

[EvilPhil]

I dont understand why everyone is refering to it as the 1999 Ferrari

That looks like the 1998 car... Look at the sidepods...

[EvilPhil]

ah my mistake actually... that is without a doubt a 1999 Ferrari lol

[Ursus]

Originally posted by FredrikB
Jeez, someone forgot a bolt or two...
Doesn't even look like heavy impact!

/Fredrik

And it looks like the right rear took the biggest hit. The front suspension look intact with only a the front wing gone and a small hole just at the tip of the nose but that could just as well have happened after the front end went wandering off on it's own.'

In short:

[riffola]

Yeah that has to be an odd crash. I still can't imagine how it must've happened.

[EnzoHonda]

Some Turtlewax will buff that right out.

[xflow7]

I wonder what the possibility is that the monocoque failing was the cause of the crash and not the result.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

What's that stuff sticking slightly forward on the top portion of the cut? Is it some sort of extender that was put in after the chassis was sawed in half?

P.S. Can anyone find a picture of the nose of Zanardi's car after his accident at Lausitzring, or the picture of Memo's car after Road America accident? If my memory serves me right, the nose section was sliced off clean as well in those two accidents. Maybe all carbon fiber survival cells are not as one piece as we think.

[Zeus]

I'm still in favor of the Chassis-was-modified theory. Here's a shot of the car on track before the incident... look how tall the driver is, his head pratically blocks the entire air intake.

http://ferrarichat.c...tid=69705&stc=1

[scags]

Well, I guess half a Ferrari is better than no Ferrari!

[Rob G]

Originally posted by StickShift
You also has to remember Laguna Seca has a lot of concrete walls right up against the side of the track without any tyre walls or safety measures.

Turn 6, where he apparently went off, is that wickedly fast left-hander heading up to the Corkscrew. There are a gravel trap and a tire wall there, but there isn't a whole lot of runoff.

[Brother Fox]

Originally posted by Vilenova
What is the monocoque made of? Why don't we see any roll cage material there?

Isn't that the essence of a monocoque?
I thought it translated to something like 'single skin' or something (help me Frenchies) so whereas a conventional design will have a cage of tubes and frames coverered by a skin of metal (which does nothing structually), the monocoque is one piece which forms both the structure and outside of the car - pretty amazing really.


of course, i could be competely wrong, but I'm sure that if I am someone will gladly point it out.

[mudpuppy]

That pic puts a new perspective on the "survial cell" concept. Even using the word carbon fiber "tub" doesn't seem fitting there.

[ScudBoy]

Originally posted by EnzoHonda
Some Turtlewax will buff that right out.

I can just imagine the Ferrari rep that sold him the car running over and saying that

[polendo]

How did that chasis even kept together with the power of the engine and turning loads. Amazing photo and real lucky guy.

regards

[A3]

Here's the car at the Italia a Zandvoort event in 2003: