17 replies to this topic

[pio!pio!]

So says many people (and I believe it)...but has anyone ever demonstrated it? I want to see a video of it happening

[Enkei]

Originally posted by pio!pio!
So says many people (and I believe it)...but has anyone ever demonstrated it? I want to see a video of it happening

Not a chance you'll find it.

[Tomecek]

Originally posted by pio!pio!
So says many people (and I believe it)...but has anyone ever demonstrated it? I want to see a video of it happening

Yes, one formula one magazine provided coverage of it. It was quite cool including pictures, what was sad on that report that it was a fake admitted in next issue

Anyway, pio!pio!, you don't need to believe it, it is not such difficult to calculate it how big forces wings generate. They are bigger than car weight.

If B747 is able to take-off in 300 km/h why not formula one car? Formula one car is nothing else but aircraft up-side down.

[pio!pio!]

I totally believe it..I just wanna see it The next Tilke track should have this built into the straighaway...

[Tomecek]

Originally posted by pio!pio!
I totally believe it..I just wanna see it The next Tilke track should have this built into the straighaway...

Just try old famous Stunt game ;) Even cars without wings can do that

[benn5325]

Didn't McLaren do this a couple of years ago. I'm sure it is in one of the Racing Line magazines.
I'll dig them out and go through them tonight.

[Nazzz]

Didn't McLaren do this a couple of years ago

Yea they did....and it worked.

I think they did it with the MP4-13. There was a feature on it in the Racing Line mag.

[Muzza]

Originally posted by Tomecek
Just try old famous Stunt game ;) Even cars without wings can do that

Oh, Stunt! Thanks for bringing some good memories back, Tomecek.

[Nikos Spagnol]

Originally posted by Tomecek
Just try old famous Stunt game ;) Even cars without wings can do that

Yes, even a Lancia Delta can do that in Stunts.

[rgagne]

i dont believe it was ever done with an F1 car... Too much problems to solve with gravity.

I remember a Cart documentary on speed channel a couple of years ago where an engineer mentionned that the car, at about 100 mph, had enough down force to run upside down on a ceiling.

But from there to actually do it... down force applies to the monocoque, but not to the driver nor to the fluids in the engine and reservoirs.

RGagne

[BorderReiver]

Well, if any of you have seen the out-takes from the Italian Job (not the crappy new version, the old one) you'll know a Mini Cooper can barrel roll in a storm drain too. . . .

[RDM]

As an F1 car weighs only 600 kg incl. driver, and downforce generated can be far in excess of that, the maths is pretty straightforward to argue it can be done, beyond a given speed. The problem in carrying it out, apart from finding a willing driver, is locating a decent length (1 - 2 miles?) ceiling to drive upside down on, free of obstacles that for some bizarre reason has been suitably asphalted. Now, whether or not it is actually possible to asphalt upside down is, I suspect, a different question......

[tony]

Proof that this is possible comes from simple physics, and running some numbers for typical cornering speeds. The frictional force between two objects is simply the "normal" force between them multiplied by a constant known as the coefficient of friction (COF). The maximum value for a COF is 1, assuming there is no adhesion. Hot racing tires do provide some adhesion (as opposed to simple friction) so the COF between racing tire and track can be greater than 1, but I THINK less than 1.5 (anyone know this?). The "normal" force for a flat track is simply the cars weight. Very simply, in order for the car not to slide the frictional force must exceed or equal the cars mass times it's acceleration. A figure that's helpful is that with a COF of 1, and no aerodynamic downforce a car could never accelerate greater than 1g, where a g is 9.8 m/s^2, without sliding. If a car had no aero downforce and a COF of 1.5 then an acceleration of 1.5g could be realized. On high speed corners, an F1 car can acheive greater than 3g (it's centripetal acceleration). Thus, the extra 1.5g must come from aerodynamic downforce. This extra downforce increases the "effective weight" or normal force. Unless you doubt Newton and Bernoulli, this is certainly possible.

[Globber2000]

And the fuel and oil pumps and such can't run upside down, so the engine would probably die after a short while, leaving the driver in great dismay.

[brad_d]

Originally posted by Globber2000
And the fuel and oil pumps and such can't run upside down, so the engine would probably die after a short while, leaving the driver in great dismay.

Agreed.

Seriously...this is the first practical problem, isn't it? I'm certain that it could be solved, if one really wanted to try this - piston-engined aerobatic aircraft can fly inverted with no difficulties.

But you could not run a "stock" (i.e., straight off the Hungaroring with no modifications at all) F1 engine upside down. Fuel and oil would rest in the tops of their reservoirs, where I rather doubt there are pump pickups.

Right?

[RJL]

Jus' git them boys to to yank that li'l v10 outta there and & screw it back in upside down. That Adrian Newman broad outta be able figure out a way. Geez, goes to show what a sissy sport F1 is, when you gots chicks runnin' it! Now git the boys to screw a coupa ol' bumper jacks onto an old moving dolly, and flip the McLaren ass over tea kettle onto the jacks, strap ol' Cubey in there, crank it up to the ceiling and have at 'er. A nice long tunnel with a smooth concrete ceiling should do the trick. Stopping on the other hand may prove to be a challenge.

[Oho]

Originally posted by Tomecek

Anyway, pio!pio!, you don't need to believe it, it is not such difficult to calculate it how big forces wings generate. They are bigger than car weight.

Ave !!!

Thats not nearly enough to keep the car on ceiling.

- Oho -

[B747]

Tomecek quote:

If B747 is able to take-off in 300 km/h why not formula one car? Formula one car is nothing else but aircraft up-side down.

mmm, I can't go that fast, maybe some 25 km/h at full trotlle, but the truth, I have never lift up.