35 replies to this topic

[Teez]

Given the almost comical number of mechanical failures Kimi has suffered in his career, particularly at McLaren, I wonder if it's really all due to bad luck. I mean, once, twice, three times is bad luck. But this...! His teammate doesn't seem to be affected as often as Kimi. What do you think is the primary reason for the majority of Kimi's DNFs (due to car problems)?

[Brother Fox]

Funny, i thought that during the last race, when Sato has a lot of DNF's compared to Button he's accused of causing it himself, but no such mention against Kimi?

[fumes]

Originally posted by Teez
What do you think is the primary reason for the majority of Kimi's DNFs (due to car problems)?

Car problems.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Brother Fox
Funny, i thought that during the last race, when Sato has a lot of DNF's compared to Button he's accused of causing it himself, but no such mention against Kimi?

Indeed, it's seems there's a certain double standard when it comes to labelling someone a car wrecker. Anyhow, I think it's simply a case of both Kimi and Takuma having really crappy luck this season.

[AS110]

Short memories here I think - this year Kimi is a no show,so the anti Kimi's are quiet,but 2002 and 2003 there was everything in the book thrown at that car breaker Kimi.Just the wankers at McLaren I reckon,DC blew 2 engines in one weekend,Kimi's held.Kimi pushes harder,his car breaks more,what do you expect?

[Lukin]

When you drive like a girl outside the points, your car is hardly gonna break down!

[Piif]

It's a drivers job to drive the car as fast as they can and the teams job to make him a car that will endure such driving.

[Superman]

Well if he is the car breaker then i am sure WronG would have to him to change his driving style by now.

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by Jason

Indeed, it's seems there's a certain double standard when it comes to labelling someone a car wrecker. Anyhow, I think it's simply a case of both Kimi and Takuma having really crappy luck this season.

Probably because Kimi's driving is smooth and controlled. Honda were questioning Sato being part of the problem partly because of the number of times he stresses the engine from spinning and having to dump the clutch, making additional pitstops after being in accidents, etc. I mean Kimi's failures include wings falling off for pete's sake . . . .

[Oho]

Originally posted by Superman
Well if he is the car breaker then i am sure WronG would have to him to change his driving style by now.

Ave !!

Driving style isn't exactly as easy to change as underpants though they occasionally seem to stink alike.

- Oho -

[SB]

Just wonder how would people explain Kimi's performance last year, which means second place in WDC, if Kimi is a "Car-breaker" in their opinion ......

[Big Block 8]

Looking at Kimi's smooth driving style and especially the modern driver aids, it seems that he suffers from both bad quality cars and bad luck.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1


Probably because Kimi's driving is smooth and controlled. Honda were questioning Sato being part of the problem partly because of the number of times he stresses the engine from spinning and having to dump the clutch, making additional pitstops after being in accidents, etc. I mean Kimi's failures include wings falling off for pete's sake . . . .

So, Sato's rear wing gurney seperated off his car twice! Once at Melborne and once at Bahrain. Anyhow, just what type of stress did Sato inflict on the engine that cause it to fail after one lap at Monaco? It's not like Sato suddenly chance his driving style from 2002, when he only suffered one DNF due to an engine failure, is it?

[Torx]

Ten tools have already voted in this poll.

[d_view7]

Raikkonens DNFs:
2001 7
2002 10
2003 3 (only one mechanical)
2004 7

Think 2003 answers this question pretty well.

[Earthling]

Originally posted by d_view7
Raikkonens DNFs:
2001 7
2002 10
2003 3 (only one mechanical)
2004 7

Think 2003 answers this question pretty well.

Yea but the 2003 car was an upgraded 2002 car, which makes me think that they knew the car inside out and all parts made for it were tested more, giving him a harder time to break the car if he really is a car-breaker.
Not that im saying he is, as i havent voted.

[kismet]

Well, David Coulthard broke more McLarens in 2003 but I'm sure Kimi was just having an off-year. And at Sauber, his engines weren't blowing up left and right either. The boy has no consistency. I doubt he could break an F2004.

Anyway, I'd put most of the blame on M&M whose recent cars/engines should've come with a compulsory "Fragile - handle with care" sticker. If the car is borderline reliable (ie. barely able to handle a race distance if driven with the kiddy gloves on), I suppose it's possible that driving style has something to do with Kimi's atrocious reliability record. But I'd still maintain that a reasonably robust race car should be able to take it without breaking down. And some of his retirements have been absolutely freakish.

[MrSlow]

I don't think Kimi's driving style is particularly smooth in the normal sense. It is often very aggressive. When riding in car with Kimi you can hear that he is constantly working the throttle in the corners. Nothing wrong with that, I believe that is part of of the reason he is fast.

But theoretically, if you are lapping half a second faster than your team mate, you are propably using more of the car. If you use more of the car, chances of failiure should increase.
Not Kimi's fault though, he is supposed to extract every bit possible from the car.

[SiegSchumi]

Originally posted by Teez
Given the almost comical number of mechanical failures Kimi has suffered in his career, particularly at McLaren, I wonder if it's really all due to bad luck. I mean, once, twice, three times is bad luck. But this...! His teammate doesn't seem to be affected as often as Kimi. What do you think is the primary reason for the majority of Kimi's DNFs (due to car problems)?

A lame troll from a Kimi basher, disguised as a poll.

[Dragonfly]

To be able to catch up with the front runners the McLarens are on the edge of their reliability. No spare left.
Kimi may be a bit more aggressive but not that much to break a reliable car every so often.

[clown]

Kimi the Kar-breaker?

You lazy git!
This thread could so easily be called "Kimi the Kar-Killer"

[HSJ]

Originally posted by MrSlow
I don't think Kimi's driving style is particularly smooth in the normal sense. It is often very aggressive. When riding in car with Kimi you can hear that he is constantly working the throttle in the corners. Nothing wrong with that, I believe that is part of of the reason he is fast.

But theoretically, if you are lapping half a second faster than your team mate, you are propably using more of the car. If you use more of the car, chances of failiure should increase.
Not Kimi's fault though, he is supposed to extract every bit possible from the car.

That sums it up for me.

As to the driver being much of a factor in reliability, well, let's consider MS in 95 vs. 96 vs. 97. Forgot how to save the car for one year? How about MH-DC at McLaren 96-01, their respective reliability records went either way depending on the season. I'd find it incredible if the drivers just changed their style or "sensitivity to equipment" so frequently as to account for it. I wonder though, JPM has had better reliability at Williams than KR at Mac, but JPM's style should not be particularly "sensitive towards equipment", so how will the MP4s handle JPM's style?

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by Jason
Anyhow, just what type of stress did Sato inflict on the engine that cause it to fail after one lap at Monaco? It's not like Sato suddenly chance his driving style from 2002, when he only suffered one DNF due to an engine failure, is it?

His driving style hasn't changed, but the number of engines per weekend rule has . . .

[Jason]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1


His driving style hasn't changed, but the number of engines per weekend rule has . . .

...and his race engineer has changed, as well. Might that not be a factor?

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by Jason

...and his race engineer has changed, as well. Might that not be a factor?

Always possible, but it's Honda that seemed to be concerned about Sato . . . .

[Jason]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1


Always possible, but it's Honda that seemed to be concerned about Sato . . . .

Well, Honda has compared Button's telemetry to Sato's, in depth, and couldn't find anything within the data to account for the huge disparity in reliability between the two drivers, and yet many observers still want to blame Sato. So, if Honda is concerned, it corncern over people placing blame on Sato for something he has no control over. Back to my point about Jock Clear, it should be noted Sato's reliability problems aren't solely isolated to the engine. The aforementioned rear wing gurney problems, at Melborne and Bahrain. During the Saturday morning session, at San Marino, he encounter a gearbox problem. Then on the opening lap of the race he encountered a suspension problem, which cause his car to bottom out throughout the race. At Canada, he experienced oil pressure problems during the Saturday morning practice session. Lost practice time, at France, due to a gearbox problem. Missed the first Saturday morning practice session, at Hungary, due to a power steering problem. Didn't JV encounter similar assortment of problems, last season, at BAR? The commom link between JV and Sato is Jock Clear, is it not?

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by Jason

Well, Honda has compared Button's telemetry to Sato's, in depth, and couldn't find anything within the data to account for the huge disparity in reliability between the two drivers . . .

Then why did they ever bring it up? Button is a notoriously smooth driver, Sato is not. I guess it's the smoke and fire equation.

[chauncey]

I don't think being labelled a carbreaker is all that bad. Afterall, one of the fastest drivers to ever live wore that same label....I think we all know who I am talking about.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1


Then why did they ever bring it up? Button is a notoriously smooth driver, Sato is not. I guess it's the smoke and fire equation.

What makes you think they're the one who brought it up? If you think teams only compare telemetry when there's a problem, you're wrong. Obviously, less informed people in the the press were the ones asking. What is Honda suppose to do, not respond to their questions?

[MuMu]

Kimi reminds me a bit of MS circa 96 - very good driver with a car that breaks often. Ferrari unfortunately have the budget to throw a couple of hundred million toward making the car bullet proof. McLaren don't have that kind of money.

[HSJ]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1


Then why did they ever bring it up? Button is a notoriously smooth driver, Sato is not. I guess it's the smoke and fire equation.

That's inadequate reasoning. Your "smoke and fire equation" thing can only be taken as something causing TS to have worse reliability than JB, but it does not tell you where exactly the problem lies. TS and JB can be considered to be driving for different teams. They have their own engines and engine parts, and engineers of course. You don't know which part of the equation is responsible. The major headache for BAR is that they don't know either. Willis has given hints that he thinks TS is somewhat responsible, but others at BAR have pointed out that exhaustive analyses have not been able to pinpoint the reason. This is most embarrassing for them. They simply don't know. But still some choose to consider it "obvious" and blame TS. That I find unbelievable, really. If the team had done their analyses and found TS was guilty, then okay, but they've analysed the problem without being able to blame anyone or anything in particular. As I mentioned DC-MH at McLaren 96-01. Was DC a car breaker in 98-99 but suddenly found out how to drive in a way to conserve the car in 00-01, while the exact opposite happened to MH? Would you get laughed out of Woking if you went to the factory and suggested something like that?

[Don Ato]

Originally posted by Teez
Given the almost comical number of mechanical failures Kimi has suffered in his career, particularly at McLaren,

Almost??

[Don Ato]

I will say that i'm far more comforted to see Kimi break down, because he is usually ahead of DC. However, Sato is so regularly behind Button when he blows up, that I don't think you can put it down to both drivers pushing too hard.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Don Ato
I will say that i'm far more comforted to see Kimi break down, because he is usually ahead of DC. However, Sato is so regularly behind Button when he blows up, that I don't think you can put it down to both drivers pushing too hard.

It's Sato's first season working with Jock Clear. You ever consider that?

[Angel Eyes]

Last season KR had only one dfn due to the tech problems. DC had 4. So much about pushing too hard. It's widely known in F1 world that it is almost impossible to break your car by pushing too hard.

And it has not been the engine all the time.

at Hungaroring, the engine didn't break. It was an eletric problem which didn't allow engine get any gas anymore. at Hungaroring, it was that wing. Few times it's been a gear box.

[TEquiLA]

If Kimi didn't have bad luck he wouldn't have any luck at all