220 replies to this topic

[kenny]

Yes,... Bruno Senna, nephew of Ayrton

http://www.grandprix...ns/ns13388.html

[Wes]

I'm going to highjack this thread for 5 seconds, but it's not completely OT. I heard a comentator on NBC state there was a cousin of Ayrton's in the equestrian competition at the Athens Olympics. Google found Raul Senna Neto from Brazil (riding Super Rocky, lol), but no mention of the late WDC. Can anyone confirm Raul's relation to Ayrton? Thanks.

Ok, back to Bruno.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Maybe we'll see the second coming? Would be great to have another Senna back in Formula One.

[HBoss]

I know it's not A. Senna, but the bare mention of Senna and Brands Hatch together just caused a wicked chill up my spine. He must still be racing and loving it, wherever he is.

[BRG]

Oh dear – the ultimate legacy driver arrives!

Bruno raced karts until Ayrton’s death but unsurprisingly stopped then. He has raced nothing since. Now he is going into Formula BMW. Courtesy of his mum, Vivian (Ayrton’s sister) having a word with Gerhard Berger – isn’t it nice to have friends in high places? As a result, this completely unknown Brazilian youth with effectively no race CV gets the cover and two inside pages in this week’s “Motorsport News”. Not even Michael gets that much coverage! All because of the name Senna.

And incidentally, is his name actually Senna? His mother’s name is Vivian Lalli (presumably by marriage) so surely he is really Bruno Lalli? How cynical is it to play on your dead uncle’s mystique in this way…

The good thing is that now Piquet jr, Rosberg jr, Lauda jr etc have been trumped comprehensively and will have to rely on their actual race results if they have F1 pretensions. But they better hurry, because doubtless in various team factories, they are already stencilling the name “Senna” onto the test car in readiness for his first F1 test.

[benn5325]

Even gone as far as using the same helmet design, more or less.
Quite lame.

[DaleCooper]

BRG; right on the money.
This whole story is sad and ridiculous!


Cooper

[I_hate_chicanes]

Can't say I blame him for taking advantage of the 'Senna' name. Now its upto Bruno to prove himself.

[Ross Stonefeld]

He modified Ayrton's helmet design in the layout, but switched to the Carlin team colors

[Rene]

Originally posted by BRG
Oh dear – the ultimate legacy driver arrives!

Bruno raced karts until Ayrton’s death but unsurprisingly stopped then. He has raced nothing since. Now he is going into Formula BMW. Courtesy of his mum, Vivian (Ayrton’s sister) having a word with Gerhard Berger – isn’t it nice to have friends in high places? As a result, this completely unknown Brazilian youth with effectively no race CV gets the cover and two inside pages in this week’s “Motorsport News”. Not even Michael gets that much coverage! All because of the name Senna.

And incidentally, is his name actually Senna? His mother’s name is Vivian Lalli (presumably by marriage) so surely he is really Bruno Lalli? How cynical is it to play on your dead uncle’s mystique in this way…

The good thing is that now Piquet jr, Rosberg jr, Lauda jr etc have been trumped comprehensively and will have to rely on their actual race results if they have F1 pretensions. But they better hurry, because doubtless in various team factories, they are already stencilling the name “Senna” onto the test car in readiness for his first F1 test.

No doubt

And despite joining one of the top teams, I still predict he is going to get royally spanked, he just doesn't have the experience regardless of his natural ability (assuming he has any)

[rce]

Originally posted by BRG
Oh dear – the ultimate legacy driver arrives!

Bruno raced karts until Ayrton’s death but unsurprisingly stopped then. He has raced nothing since. Now he is going into Formula BMW. Courtesy of his mum, Vivian (Ayrton’s sister) having a word with Gerhard Berger – isn’t it nice to have friends in high places? As a result, this completely unknown Brazilian youth with effectively no race CV gets the cover and two inside pages in this week’s “Motorsport News”. Not even Michael gets that much coverage! All because of the name Senna.

And incidentally, is his name actually Senna? His mother’s name is Vivian Lalli (presumably by marriage) so surely he is really Bruno Lalli? How cynical is it to play on your dead uncle’s mystique in this way…

Thank you!! As soon as I read on another website about Bruno I was peeved that he was using "Senna" when it's not his name. From my understanding Bruno's full name would be Bruno da Silva Lalli - where the heck did he get the 'Senna' from??? Cashing in on anyone's name is pathetic, using your late uncle's name is worse. And a similar helmet...oh jeez...

Of course - the question I have (in all honesty) is whether Bruno himself is actually using the name 'Senna' or has the greedy press decided to use it (but if Bruno had any self-respect (respect for his uncle) he would correct them).

[jimm]

Originally posted by rce


Thank you!! As soon as I read on another website about Bruno I was peeved that he was using "Senna" when it's not his name. From my understanding Bruno's full name would be Bruno da Silva Lalli - where the heck did he get the 'Senna' from??? Cashing in on anyone's name is pathetic, using your late uncle's name is worse. And a similar helmet...oh jeez...

Of course - the question I have (in all honesty) is whether Bruno himself is actually using the name 'Senna' or has the greedy press decided to use it (but if Bruno had any self-respect (respect for his uncle) he would correct them).

Would you correct them?


IT is very hard to make it now a days in racing. I know of several people who were fast and won a series only to have someone they spanked all year to get a ride over them because of money or a name. Had they had that advantage they would have used it too. As it is, they are all doing something else now.


In other words, everyone else making it in racing is doing so if you need to you might as well.

[kenny]

Originally posted by DaleCooper
BRG; right on the money.
This whole story is sad and ridiculous!


Cooper

Well I know Ayrton used to give him kart lessons back then.. and I honestly don't think Ayrton would mind him using the name 'Senna'...
We all know there will never be another Ayrton Senna...
But, why not a Bruno Senna... who knows, he might not even make it to F1...
Ayrton was very found of his nephew, and the other way around as well...
If I remember correctly, Bruno is even helping out the Senna foundation...

[Corners]

His interest in racing is certainly a product of Ayrton and it was Ayrton that tought him how to race Karts, Ayrton changed his own name to Senna, Bruno has inherited his uncles passion for racing from his uncle through mainly influence now tell me what the difference is between him and Villeneuve getting into F1 or Piquet jnr or Rosber jnr or Mattias crappy Lauda ? Every one of them had or have people racing with them who are more deserved a place in f1 than them but didn't have a famous name so don't go down that avenue with Bruno. If he's any good its because Senna taught him perhaps.

[SB]

Thanks for sharing the news !

some google search and here's the pic of Bruno's helmet

http://www.planetkar...275-200x200.jpg

http://www.planetkar...274-400x500.jpg

[100cc]

Originally posted by jimm

Would you correct them?

hell no... take every advantage you can.

[Deeq]

Jimmi 100cc et al Right on the money.


WTF is this nonsense? Could it ever occur YOU that he may wish to honour HIS uncless memory by taking his maternal* name ie doing it for purely emotional reasons?

BTW no ones got more right to milk that name than him and alot are doing already so why would the only one with a hint of legitimacy should not take advantage of his birthright? specially in a feild where merit gets backseat to al sorts of subvertions. Hello we are talking about a sport where payride and marketabilty are virtues

So he is cynical[at worst case] but aren't you too for calling on him for such a dubious grounds?

I wish him all the best, BTW Senna holds no more special place in my heart infact 10 frging years of mindless worship hade...well you get it.


*) Ironi Senna took this name from his mother so its kind of funny that a relative gets stoned and hanged for good measure for keeping Family traditions!!!........oh well

[Ross Stonefeld]

Thats not the design he's using in Formula BMW

[Corners]

So how's he doing any news ?

[Ghostrider]

The new Senna is finally here.

[SeanValen]

Senna: Racing was in his blood, so the blood continues in form of his nephew.

[Lazarus II]

Anyone have any newsas to how Bruno is ding or did?

[NickeF1]

Senna qualified on 11th place.

Urbano takes pole for Carlin, Senna 11th for debut
21/08/2004

Joao Urbano took his second pole position of the year in qualifying for the first Formula BMW UK race at Brands Hatch, while Bruno Senna set a time good enough for an 11th place grid slot in his first ever car race, despite an off early in the session. Sam Bird was one place higher, tenth overall, and third in the Rookie Cup.

Urbano had also set the fastest time in testing two days earlier, and was naturally happy with the result: “I came here very motivated. We had everything to do a good job and that's what happened. I put all things together in the lap and the team put in the car and we all did a very good job.”

For Senna, nephew of three-time F1 world champion Ayrton, the session included an off-track excursion at the daunting Paddock Hill bend. The Brazilian crossed the gravel but was able to get back to the pits and then out again for one final lap before the chequered flag. Senna was slightly disappointed with his performance, despite the fact that the meeting is his Formula BMW debut.

“I think I didn't push hard enough in the first corner [Paddock Hill],” said the 20-year-old. “The first corner is pretty much a confidence corner and I haven't done that many laps here so I don't think I have got the right line, the right speed there. When I tried to do that I went off the track, so I think I have to work a bit harder to fill this gap.

“I think I could have done better, I have the equipment to do better. I think I have the car to be on pole, Joao's car is pretty much the same, so it pretty much depends on me. I don't think I'll be on pole because the other drivers have a lot of experience, they know the track better than me, so I just have to see from now on, I won't make any predictions.”

Bird was at the unlucky end of an incredible eight drivers whose times were all within a tenth of a second. If he had been just eight-hundredths quicker, he would have been fourth overall, and fastest in the Rookie Cup. “I'm a bit disappointed, said the 17-year-old. “There's only hundredths in it though between me and fourth place, so it's not too disappointing. Hopefully next time we'll be on the good end instead of the bad end of the quick people.” When asked whether he would change anything for the second qualifying session, this afternoon, Bird said: “Apart from my position, no, I think we'll leave the car, we'll just go up the grid!”

Carlin Motorsport’s other two drivers, Christian Bakkerud and Duarte Felix da Costa, were down in 14th and 15th places respectively. For da Costa, a return to Brands Hatch was a return to the scene of a barrel-roll earlier in the year, but the Portuguese driver was unfazed by this. “I have already forgotten the crash,” said da Costa. “At this track I was quick, in the first race I was sixth, so I was expecting to be in the first five now. I just have to keep concentrating and try to make a better car.”

With 22 cars qualifying together on the 1.2-mile Brands Hatch Indy circuit, Bakkerud struggled to find a gap in the traffic to set a really quick lap. “I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, so didn't get to go quick enough,” said Bakkerud. “We can definitely improve for this afternoon. There’s just got a few changes to the car we can make and a few changes to my line.”

[Lazarus II]

Thanks Nicke.

[NickeF1]

In the second qualify for the second race he ended up in 10th place which i think is a good effort considering his lack of experience.

[masterhit]

People should be aware that Ayrton too used his mother's maiden name as it was more commercial (some argue that he did not want to piss off his Dad).

So, out went 'Da Silva,' in went 'Senna'.

Bruno doing the same is in fact highly appropriate.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Does Bruno actually have Senna anwhere in his name though?

[masterhit]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Does Bruno actually have Senna anwhere in his name though?

AFAIK he was born as Bruno Da Silva.

His Mum is Senna's sister, she got married and now has the surname Lalli, of her husband, who later died in a motorcycle crash. Talk about a cursed family.

'Ayrton Senna' was born Ayrton Da Silva, there was no Senna anything in his name originally either, the Senna name being his Mum's maiden name.

[The Fazz]

Originally posted by masterhit


AFAIK he was born as Bruno Da Silva.

His Mum is Senna's sister, she got married and now has the surname Lalli, of her husband, who later died in a motorcycle crash. Talk about a cursed family.

'Ayrton Senna' was born Ayrton Da Silva, there was no Senna anything in his name originally either, the Senna name being his Mum's maiden name.

So neither should have carried the Senna name? Does not change the fact that he is certainly Ayrton's nephew. So I guess, it is okay to re-align the surnames....

A bit contrived... but I guess Bruno is entitled to re-brand himself to gain mileage. So if he thinks this will help, the by all means.

However, I do believe it is a double edged sword. If I were a youngster trying to break into motorsports... I would do without the added pressure of having a legendary name. I am certain Ayrton would have adopted a lower profile approach (as he did with Toleman).

[PhilKerr]

oops and he crashed out of the race on the first lap

[kenny]

Originally posted by masterhit


AFAIK he was born as Bruno Da Silva.

His Mum is Senna's sister, she got married and now has the surname Lalli, of her husband, who later died in a motorcycle crash. Talk about a cursed family.

'Ayrton Senna' was born Ayrton Da Silva, there was no Senna anything in his name originally either, the Senna name being his Mum's maiden name.

No no, Ayrton was born 'Ayrton Senna Da Silva'
can be seen on his birth certificate in various books...
he just dropped the 'Da silva' because he knew there were millions Da Silva's in Brasil, but very few name Senna... and it was shorter

As for Bruno, I assume his full name is Bruno Sa Silva Lalli or Bruno Senna Lalli..
depending on, when he was born, if his sister choose to give Da Silva or Senna as 2nd name...

[stylus]

Knowing nothing about the ethics of Brazilian surnames I'm thinking it's a bold move.

He stands out: so if he's good, he'll be more noticeable; if he's rubbish, ditto.

[Corners]

Done very well in qualifying, I think I'm going to just forget about him and just wait for him to remind me that's he's racing in Britain sometimes in the next few years, if he's any good.

[David Lawson]

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate forum for these pictures but I thought everyone would be interested in these photographs I took at Brands Hatch yesterday of Ayrton Senna's nephew having his UK race debut in the Formula BMW-UK Championship.









Despite the presence of a couple of TV crews and a few photographers the scene was very low key which presumably was the reasoning behind the late announcemount of his entry in the race. Bruno Senna and his mother appeared a little apprehensive at times but also to be very much enjoying their day at Brands.

David

[wagner]

Originally posted by PhilKerr
oops and he crashed out of the race on the first lap

Some boys get to try real (=crash) what I did with PC. No mercy.

[RX-7]

Okay so the kid crashed. When I first saw Senna race live at Detroit,he to crashed albeit on or around the 20th lap. I thought he was shitty...Wow, how wrong was I?!! I will watch this kid and hopefully he will progress...There is no other individual in the lower Formula's I would rather see excel to the higher levels. Yes, simply because of his relation to Ayrton! In addition I also feel he has the right to use the "Senna" name. In the cut throat world of F1(if he is to make if that far) he will need every advantage he can get! GO Bruno!!

[Ross Stonefeld]

[Corners]

Wasn't very impressive in the races albeit finishing the second race, his pace is good though if you look at the qualifying he's less than 4 tenths slower than pole position on a 46 second lap. He's about 0.25 down on Urbano which is very good actually, anyway let's see how he catches up in the next races.

[theunions]

For those with sharp eyes, an approximately 8-year-old Bruno is featured towards the end of "Racing is in My Blood," though he is never referred to by name.

[rce]

Originally posted by jimm


Would you correct them?

Yes I would, but that's just me and my standards. I would want to prove myself, I would want my name to be famous and people to respect me/give me a chance for my abilities not those of my late uncle.

As for his name, as I stated earlier, my understanding of Brazil and last names is that Bruno would be given his mother's maiden name (da Silva) and his father's name (Lalli)...Senna is no where in his name. Ayrton, as mentioned above was given his mother's maiden name (Senna) as his 'middle' name and his father's name (da Silva).

I have more understanding of Ayrton dropping the 'da Silva' and just using 'Senna' - but I don't for
Bruno. He gets a ride because of his mother's connections with Gerhard Berger and he's using his late uncle's name.

Corners - the difference is that they are using their 'real' names, they're not using the name of a family member.

[550spyder]

Well,
Names are names and spanish, portuguese and brazilians have a different habits regarding the names:

For example: Alfonso de Portago real name: Alfonso-Antonio-Vicente-Blas-Ángel-Francisco-Borgia Cabeza de Vaca y Leighton Carvajal y Are, el séptimo marqués de Portago y conde de Mejorada.

By the brazilan law it is easy to add a name. Our president was registered with the name Luiz Inácio da Silva and added the name Lula and become: Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva

I never saw the register of Bruno da Silva Lalli ( I presume this is his name ) but I won't be surprised with the fact that his real name could be Bruno Senna da Silva Lalli. In some cases families use two names as one like Tavares Leite, Whitaker Vidigal, Oliveira e Silva and so on. There is a great chance that Viviane's kids were registered Senna da Silva Lalli.

Even if not true, it will be easy to add the Senna name, chiefly because the law allows the addition of family names more easily than in the case of other names like the Lula example.

[Muzza]

Originally posted by masterhit
[...]
'Ayrton Senna' was born Ayrton Da Silva, there was no Senna anything in his name originally either, the Senna name being his Mum's maiden name.

No, this is not correct. I have seen an official, notarized copy of Ayrton Senna's birth certificate and his name was Ayrton Senna da Silva.

By the way, please do not capitalize prepositions in Portuguese names. It is da Silva, not Da Silva.

Originally posted by stylus
Knowing nothing about the ethics of Brazilian surnames [...]

The generation of Brazilian names follows the same formula as other Portuguese-speaking countries...

name + (mother's maiden name) + father's surname

...where the inclusion of the mother's name is optional (up to the parents of the child to decide for its inclusion or not). Ayrton's parents opted to include the maiden name Senna in their children's name.

Also, some people have, 550Spyder explained, compound surnames. Compound surnames can be as complex as one can imagine; examples are Pinheiro Machado Lousada (three surnames making up a single one), Cavalcanti de Abreu Soares Fonseca (four surnames together to make a single one).

Portuguese compound names are not hyphenized, bar a few rare exceptions.

Originally posted by 550spyder
[...]
For example: Alfonso de Portago real name: Alfonso-Antonio-Vicente-Blas-Ángel-Francisco-Borgia Cabeza de Vaca y Leighton Carvajal y Are, el séptimo marqués de Portago y conde de Mejorada.

As far as I know, Alfonso de Portago's correct name was don Alfonso Antonio Vicente Blas Angel Francisco Borgia Cabeza de Vaca y Leighton Carvajal y Are, grande de España, conde de Mejorada, conde de Pernía, marqués de Moratalla, decimoséptimo marqués de Portago y duque de Alagón .

[BRG]

I think that bringing aristocratic usages into the equation probably isn't helping - althoug it is clear that de Portago did at least use some of his own names, not one appropriated from elsewhere. As others have pointed out, Bruno is probably called B. da Silva Lalli.

It is evident that a considerable PR effort was made over his race debut - it was even in the sports pages of the London Evening Standard last week (depsite blanket Olympics coverage) and that is not a paper that usually reports any motorsport topic other than F1. All the stops have been pulled out to hype Bruno as the heir to the Senna legend - taking on a name to which he is not entitled is just a part of the marketing assault. And already people are falling for it - the evidence is in this thread.

Incidentally, I will be making my race debut at Silverstone next weekend, and will be racing under the name Mike Schumacher (well, I once walked past him in the pits, so I am sure that he would want me to carry on his good work).

And if that doesn't work, I will take the name John Manuel Fangio for my next race (I watched him once at Donington, and let's face it, his own nephew hasn't really cut it)

[Ross Stonefeld]

Apparently he had 10 days of testing prior to Brands, which is why he wasnt able to score points or prize money.

Welcome to the fame factory

[stylus]

Originally posted by Muzza
The generation of Brazilian names follows the same formula as other Portuguese-speaking countries...

name + (mother's maiden name) + father's surname

...where the inclusion of the mother's name is optional (up to the parents of the child to decide for its inclusion or not). Ayrton's parents opted to include the maiden name Senna in their children's name. (my emphasis)

Thanks my ignorance has just lessened...

Presumably that's the part people are arguing, as to whether Bruno was given the "Senna" name at birth (when you don't have much of a say) or added it himself later to further his career?

But why does it matter so? He'd have been mentioned anyway as "Senna's nephew". It might be that he admired his uncle and wanted to acknowledge that. It might be that he wanted to attract sponsorship. In the end, he can (learn to) race well or not - and all the publicity just hastens the outcome, imo.

[nigel red5]

Originally posted by BRG
Oh dear – the ultimate legacy driver arrives!

Bruno raced karts until Ayrton’s death but unsurprisingly stopped then. He has raced nothing since. Now he is going into Formula BMW. Courtesy of his mum, Vivian (Ayrton’s sister) having a word with Gerhard Berger – isn’t it nice to have friends in high places? As a result, this completely unknown Brazilian youth with effectively no race CV gets the cover and two inside pages in this week’s “Motorsport News”. Not even Michael gets that much coverage! All because of the name Senna.

Ahh...bingo! Bruno is the little kid on the boat in the "racing in my blood" programme. Ayrton is on the boat discussing life outside racing and he says "right now i have my nephew....and my niece", and he pats him on the head.
Ayrton only mentioned one of each so i dunno about the guy in the olympics.

[speedmaster]

To all of you - specially Ross - and without any contest or fear to be wrong:

Here is the next Senna in auto racing.. ..


PS: talking about the name, do not ask me about his speed as I don't have a clue...

[Ross Stonefeld]

Well apparently there's some doubt as to whether he's even a Senna

[Muzza]

Originally posted by stylus


Thanks my ignorance has just lessened... [..]

Thanks, stylus,

Well, information exchange is the purpose of a forum, isn't it?

Another case of a Brazilian driver using his mother's maiden name as his "racing surname" the one of Nélson Piquet.

Nélson's complete name is Nélson Piquet Souto Mayor - Piquet from his mother, Souto Mayor from his father (also in this case, the parents opted to register the child with both surnames). Nélson's father was adamantly against his racing aspirations, and that's why he adopted his mother's maiden name as his racing surname.

Nélson, though, initially changed the spelling to Piket to "hide it from his mother too" - and it was as Nélson Piket that he was crowned Formula Vee champion in Brazil. At first it may look like his choice of pseudonym was the least intelligent ever, as the similarity between Nelson Piquet and Nelson Piket are obvious, but Nelson actually expected to be caught out. He was very confident on himself and was sure that he would succeed - and wanted to "slap it in the face of his parents" once he "scored big".

Originally posted by BRG
I think that bringing aristocratic usages into the equation probably isn't helping - althoug it is clear that de Portago did at least use some of his own names, not one appropriated from elsewhere [...]

Hello, BRG,

My questioning of the name of Alfonso de Portago as provided by 550Spyder was not as much about the noblesse titles as it was about the hyphenization of names - which, I am sure in Portago's, is not correct.

Cheers,


Muzza

[djf1]

Well if you look closely at his times, you will be impressed! For a guy that has raced nothing in 10 years, races for the first time a Formula car, on a new track and registering on the 2nd qualifying 7th in the first sector and 5th in the second, I'd say that's pretty damn impressive!!! Kids that race all the way up to the time they try out a proper race car dont cut the mustard and this kid on his 1st outing, in reality having no racing experience, doing these things...
Simply there is NO WAY unless you are pretty special to have these kind of results...
Check out his times at:
http://www.mst-group...04/43403fbm.pdf

Finally there is nothing wrong using his mom's maiden name!!! Heck if that will give you a competitive advantage and you are worth it why not??? How many people try to break into Formula racing and simply don't make it even though they are talented? It would be really a waste if Bruno's obvious talent would be wasted as well...
For sure it will be interesting watching him grow...