38 replies to this topic

[richie]

I came across Bob Curl recently. I believe he was involved in several racing projects, Hesketh and Lotus and others. What is known about him?

[Doug Nye]

Probably best known for his successful association with Mark Konig on the Nomad endurance racing sports cars....

DCN

[richie]

How long did the Nomad season last? I've looked into Lotus web sites, without much success to look into his involvement.- What's your inside knowledge of this?

[petefenelon]

Wasn't Bob Curl involved with the Gropa-CMC (a sort of beheaded Chevron B8 for Group 6)?

someone-Mylius-Curl? -- Andy Mylius and a young Gerry Birrell raced one.

edit: D'oh - the C's for Chevron .

[petefenelon]

Offsite link to a picture of a Gropa-CMC

http://www.ritzsite....pa_CMC_1970.jpg

pete

[mickj]

Richie
Vintage Racecar (US) Oct 2002 has an interview with Bob Curl. He worked with Elva and Lotus.

Built the 3 Nomads with Mark Konig. As Pete has said He made the Gropa, which was a rebody of a Chevron B8.

Other projects were bodywork for Eldon FF, Konig-Heath FF, Hesketh F3 March +F1. Others the IBEC Sports car of Ian Bracey and the 1982 Dome LeMans.

Mick

[jo-briggs]

And the Nomad Formula Ford which, mostly he, and I built; and was raced by Paul Rendle and me. Unfortunately, we ran out of money before we realised we had a problem with the rear dampers which caused violent snap oversteer.


http://whoba.snuggs-...briggsnomad.jpg

A pint for whomever knows where the radiator lives, you have till 6 UTC.

Bob built, and is still building some beautiful cars. The long and short tailed 2 Litre Nomad BRMs were singularly attractive. In practice for the 1000km at Monthlery, the late Tony Lanfranchi was 2 seconds faster than any other 2ltr in practice, but it all went to his head, and he fell off on the first lap. I seem to recall a good race at Kaylami against some much more powerful cars.

I've known Bob since 1962 and he's still as enthusiastic as ever about everything but the borefest that is Formula 1.

[David M. Kane]

Was the Nomad FF a short wheelbase car. I had an Elden that was short wheel based, and it like to come around too. I think it was because it was built for groove English tires, not slicks. My Royale RP-3A was longer and was very sweet and foregiving.

[jo-briggs]

No, the Nomad was based on a highly modified Merlyn Mk11 chassis - the problem was that Mark Konig gave us some double adjustable Koni dampers and the rebound setting would not go low enough. This I realised after I had "retired", as in I'm still resting between gigs. What I worked out was happening was that the car would "bump" down and excessive rebound damping meant that it didn't relax before the next bump, this progressively led to the final bump being absorbed by the Aon rubbers, which effectively doubled the stiffness of the rear end - very lively!

[Cirrus]

Wasn't the radiator on the Nomad at the bottom of the car, behind the seat?

[jo-briggs]

Actually at 45 deg to the bottom under the seat - my invention, using the air from under the car and passing it out over the top of the engine - Earliest known use of ground effect?

That's a pint I owe you. Incidentally, how did you know?

[Stoatspeed]

This Nomad?



Run with a Buick engine in hillclimbs 1980's, picture here from Shelsley Walsh. (Edit: actually taken June 1979, so my 1980's comment is not neccesarily true!! Driver was Alan Lloyd - I think he ran under the team name of "Scotch Egg Racing"!)

Dave

[jo-briggs]

If that's a Nomad, it has been grievously insulted; I'm sure Bob would disown that bodywork!!!

The Mk1 closed GT with the Chris Steele 1,800cc Twin Cam is in Germany. The open cars are owned by one person I think, he was at one time seeking permission to run in historic using a V6 Cosworth F5000 engine. I think Bob recently made another for Barry Sheppard of Rawlson fame. I was recently told that someone is making repro BRM V8s at £50,000 each, £200,000 worth of them would suit the 4 open Nomads down to the ground.

Bob made the first Ford engined Lotus Elite; one that actually worked, last seen outside Kelvedon Motors in Spalding. He also built the Twin Cam Elite with which Mike Adda won the Autosport GT Championship, beating Chevrons, 23s, and many other mid-engined wondercars. He also built and ran the Pre-72 FF Rostron (I think) with which Paul Sleeman was 4th overall in the main FF Festival at Brands - he also won some 80 races in 2 seasons, winning the Autosport Golden Helmet 2 years running.

[Stoatspeed]

If that's a Nomad, it has been grievously insulted

... hence my "?" ... the car was entered as a "Nomad-Buick" in the programme, and I think I saw the car at other venues around the same period. I am afraid I don't have any other specific insight into the car's construction or history - it was about the size of a typical Sports 2000 car of the era, and appeared to be a monocoque center section.

That's all for now ..... maybe some of our other hillclimb experts can contribute?

[jo-briggs]

Non of the Nomads were monocoques.

[Mistron]

The Mk 3 has been running in the Orwell Supercup with a 911 engine in recent times, the Mk2 still has a Ford V6 fitted in the early 70s when Konig sold them off, having rebuilt the BRM parts into the ex Tasman frame from whence they came.... at a profit I understand!

Mk2 was offered in a Coys sale a couple of years back.

[Alan Cox]

The original Nomads were quite pretty, IIRC, not like Stoatspeed's pic of the hillclimb version

[jo-briggs]

I remember that BRM in the workshop at the ubiquitous North Street - gorgeous; one of the most beautiful single seaters ever made.

Julian ------ is the man to ask about running the Nomads, as he mechaniced them on a day to day basis.

Mk1 Nomad - the lines ruined by the paint job, and I don't recall the hardtop ever having a BRM engine.
http://www.racingspo...9-04-13-081.jpg

Tony Lanfranchi in the Mk2 which at one time held the outright lap record for the Brands Hatch short circuit
http://www.f3history...ort/nomad01.jpg


Bob's Dolphin 3 Wheeler based on running gear supplied gratis by Piaggio
http://www.maxmatic....ges/dolphin.jpg

Bob's rebodied Jensen CV8
http://www.jensencar..._esporando.html

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

IIRC the MK1 Nomad used a BRM tuned Lotus t/c , saw it at the Phoenix Park in 1967 , and was smitten by it .

[Cirrus]

Wasn't the radiator on the Nomad at the bottom of the car, behind the seat?

Actually at 45 deg to the bottom under the seat - my invention, using the air from under the car and passing it out over the top of the engine - Earliest known use of ground effect?

There was plenty of scope for originality in those days, and I used to study design details avidly. I remember Autosport or Motoring News commenting on the radiator position - did it work ok?

[jo-briggs]

Edward,

I was, until your posting, certain that it had a Chris Steel 1800cc engine, I'll ask Bob when he gets back from wherever he went this morning.

Cirrus,

Like a dream; it never overheated, even if you left it standing for 10 minutes; hot air rises and all that. As the car went up & down on its suspension it pumped the the air from under the car up through the radiator, I reckon it had a lot less drag than the conventional "rad in the nosecone" of the day. It also had increased penetration & had zero effect on the frontal area compared with the later side mounted radiators. Incidentally, the fuel tank was under your knees. Had I been able to afford to race more frequently than every 6 to 8 weeks, we may have sorted the damper problem, and replaced the old long stroke crossflow with one of the new, higher revving, short stroke ones. - I did about 20 races over two years (71&72) for about £3000, including buying the original Mk11 Merlyn and rebuilding it into the Nomad after the Merlyn was 70% written off at Brands.(It was a general practice session; I was minding my own business going backwards round Paddock when I was hit by a surprised Mini - I had realised that the back was going to go, so I encouraged the Merlyn to spin down the inside line, the Mini driver panicked, and instead of going down the racing line, stood on the brakes and slid straight into me, pitching me straight into the bank)

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

Chris Steele may be correct , will have to go reading my comics .

[jo-briggs]

Edward,

My mistake. I just spoke to Bob who said you were correct. The Mk1 started with a 1,500, then had a Chris Steele 1,800 which kept breaking, so Mark Konig replaced the 1,800 Twin Cam with a 1,500cc BRM V8.

Stoatspeed,

The Nomad Buick is an odd tale. An Autocross driver wanted to go circuit racing, and needed a larger engine and a body for his chassis; he acquired the Buick engine and asked Bob if he could supply a sportscar body. Bob thinks that what they did was to adapt either a Costello, or a Rawlson, CanAm body to fit. The owner then asked if he could call it a Nomad: Bob, in a moment of absent mindedness said yes; he has since been plagued with calls asking if it is a real Nomad......

[Stoatspeed]

Originally posted by jo-briggs
The Nomad Buick is an odd tale. An Autocross driver wanted to go circuit racing, and needed a larger engine and a body for his chassis; he acquired the Buick engine and asked Bob if he could supply a sportscar body. Bob thinks that what they did was to adapt either a Costello, or a Rawlson, CanAm body to fit. The owner then asked if he could call it a Nomad, Bob, in a moment of absent mindedness said yes; he has since been plagued with calls asking if it is a real Nomad......

Thanks for the research - after doing my "real Nomad" homework on the back of this thread, I was convinced that there would be absolutely no relationship between the attractive pedigreed cars of the 60's and this more ...err ... agricultural looking machine!
If I read the tale correctly, the car didn't actually get any Nomad components but somehow still got the name, or did I miss a re-body cycle there?

Thanks anyway!

Dave

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

I think the autocross nomad made have lived in Northern Ireland some years ago .

[jo-briggs]

It did indeed; on both counts - No Nomad components, and lived in N.I.

[Piston Broke]

Originally posted by Stoatspeed
This Nomad?



Run with a Buick engine in hillclimbs 1980's, picture here from Shelsley Walsh. (Edit: actually taken June 1979, so my 1980's comment is not neccesarily true!! Driver was Alan Lloyd - I think he ran under the team name of "Scotch Egg Racing"!)

Dave

originally posted by jo-briggs

The Nomad Buick is an odd tale. An Autocross driver wanted to go circuit racing, and needed a larger engine and a body for his chassis; he acquired the Buick engine and asked Bob if he could supply a sportscar body. Bob thinks that what they did was to adapt either a Costello, or a Rawlson, CanAm body to fit. The owner then asked if he could call it a Nomad: Bob, in a moment of absent mindedness said yes; he has since been plagued with calls asking if it is a real Nomad......

Hehehehehe...... the old Nomad-Buick Can-Am. I can shed some confirmation on this, having had the unfortunate experience of driving it on occassions. Not one of the more pleasant cars I have ever driven. I was one of the other two members of Scotch Egg Racing, and still have the T shirts to rmind me. It was indeed owned and driven by Alan Lloyd, who purchased the car (in a different colour) as run, and as a Nomad, and told of its origins, but also told it that it had been totally converted to 'circuit' spec by Bob, hence the calling it a Nomad. with the exception that he had the engine re-built. It was indeed an ex autocross car but was a tubular frame not a monocoque. The alluminium panelling around the seat may have given it the look of a tub. It had fairly ordinary suspension, probably as used in autocross and had an alarming habit of going into a huge understeer coming out of corners as soon as you applied the power . This suddenly swapped into a violent oversteer as soon as you lifted off or appled more throttle. It was fun in a straightish line or in fast corners.

I think it was at Shelsley that during the lunch break someone asked about the 'Nomad' and its history.... one of our friends who used to come along to help out, ( ) straight faced told the person that it was imported from the US where we had discovered it in disrepair after Elliot Forbes-Robinson had barrel rolled it at St Jovite, a complete fabrication of a story.... During the afternoon runs it was with some embarrassment that as Alan was on his run, the course commentator proceeded to tell the crowd that 'This was the car that EF-R had rolled...... etc. The guy who had asked was none other than the commentator

As a team Scotch Egg Racing were more successful in Clubmans cars (1700cc A class) on the hills, of which Alan and I had a number of over the years, from numerous Mallocks , a Dastle (which Joy and Murray Rainey bought from us and turned into the Murrain, albeit with I think an FVC which they turbocharged!) a couple of Haggispeeds, Phantom and a hideous thing I bought when drunk, called Something Special. We did manage to upset the Bugatti Owners Club at Prescott when one year we lifted 1st and 2nd outright in their 'Gold Cup'

Chris Anderson.

[Bloggsworth]

I see that there is one of Bob Curl's beautiful Mk3 Nomads advertised for sale for only £35,000 Bloody bargain to my way of thinking. Stuff the right BRM engine in that and you have a top class competetive car!

Have a look..........

http://www.motorspor...-cars/8315.html

[Bloggsworth]

More on Bob's stuff:

http://www.stoic.co....ing/history.htm

If you type "Bob+Curl" into google, second one down gives you the Telegraph article on Bob and his Dolphin. I tried putting the HTML address on here, but it doesn't work.

[richie]

More on Bob's stuff:

http://www.stoic.co....ing/history.htm

If you type "Bob+Curl" into google, second one down gives you the Telegraph article on Bob and his Dolphin. I tried putting the HTML address on here, but it doesn't work.

Met up with Bob Curl today, fascinating & talented person. Other projects involved with include: styling and prototype body mouldings of French car- the Monica from the early 70's, The Rocket from the 1990's and another called the Lightning. He tells me he even raced a Formula Ford but I failed to ask which make & when- maybe somebody knows?

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

Met up with Bob Curl today, fascinating & talented person. Other projects involved with include: styling and prototype body mouldings of French car- the Monica from the early 70's, The Rocket from the 1990's and another called the Lightning. He tells me he even raced a Formula Ford but I failed to ask which make & when- maybe somebody knows?

A NOMAD ?

[richie]

A NOMAD ?

Update from Bob Curl- he drove a ex Colin Vandervell Merlyn 11A Formula Ford in a few races in 1971 & 74, achieving a 2nd place at Lydden Hill 1st time out. He also drove Len Marchant's Brabham BT21, which he still owns. Bob designed the Konig-Heath Formula Ford in the early 1970's.

[Bloggsworth]

Met up with Bob Curl today, fascinating & talented person. Other projects involved with include: styling and prototype body mouldings of French car- the Monica from the early 70's, The Rocket from the 1990's and another called the Lightning. He tells me he even raced a Formula Ford but I failed to ask which make & when- maybe somebody knows?

In 1971 we shared a a 1967? Mk11 Merlyn with the old long stroke engine; the "Odd bodied" Merlyn in which I lead a race at Castle Coombe until the first corner, when 2 loonies atempted a suicidal overtaking move which saw me onto the grass, I ended up 5th. A fortnight later Bob qualified 2nd behind Mike Catlin in the Catnic Steel Lintels brand new Elden, unfortunately a bent valve saw him retire.

[richie]

Probably best known for his successful association with Mark Konig on the Nomad endurance racing sports cars....

DCN

Want to know what Mark Konig is up to now, see: http://saga.inbro.ne...art/pages_64-65. Making furniture in the Isle of Wight.

[captkenn]

I came across Bob Curl recently. I believe he was involved in several racing projects, Hesketh and Lotus and others. What is known about him?

Bob Curl was involved in the body design for the Mitford Elden F3 team. He is a great chap and I well remember him arriving with various bits of alluminium which he added to various parts of the cars. I still have most of them. Rather like the F1 cars of last year with little bits everywhere.
Hi Bob!

Edited by captkenn, 27 June 2010 - 17:23.

[captkenn]

In 1971 we shared a a 1967? Mk11 Merlyn with the old long stroke engine; the "Odd bodied" Merlyn in which I lead a race at Castle Coombe until the first corner, when 2 loonies atempted a suicidal overtaking move which saw me onto the grass, I ended up 5th. A fortnight later Bob qualified 2nd behind Mike Catlin in the Catnic Steel Lintels brand new Elden, unfortunately a bent valve saw him retire.

That should be Mike Catlow - He drove for me in F3.

[Bloggsworth]

That should be Mike Catlow - He drove for me in F3.

Oops! There were two cars in the Catnic team, who drove the other, was it Robards, or something like that?

Bob Curl doesn't do the Interweb thing - You can send him a fax at the local newsagents.......

[captkenn]

Oops! There were two cars in the Catnic team, who drove the other, was it Robards, or something like that?

Bob Curl doesn't do the Interweb thing - You can send him a fax at the local newsagents.......

I cannot be sure of the other driver in the FF Catnic car off the cuff but I can check for you. It may have been Danny Sullivan that seems to ring a bell. Ted Wentz drove one in 1973.

The other driver in the F3 cars was Andy Sutcliffe. Both Andy and Mike were excellent drivers to have with you. I entered Andy in a Formua 2 March which he drove to 2nd place to Ronnie Peterson at Karlskoga in Sweden. Andy did a cople of F1 drives later on but without much success.

Could you let me have Bob's Fax no.

[Bloggsworth]

I cannot be sure of the other driver in the FF Catnic car off the cuff but I can check for you. It may have been Danny Sullivan that seems to ring a bell. Ted Wentz drove one in 1973.

The other driver in the F3 cars was Andy Sutcliffe. Both Andy and Mike were excellent drivers to have with you. I entered Andy in a Formua 2 March which he drove to 2nd place to Ronnie Peterson at Karlskoga in Sweden. Andy did a cople of F1 drives later on but without much success.

Could you let me have Bob's Fax no.

If I had drawings I used to send faxes to the local newsagent, or use snail-mail. PM me and I'll let you have his details.