Jump to content


Photo

Autosport and Motor Sport -- The Issues at Issue....


  • Please log in to reply
284 replies to this topic

#1 Eric McLoughlin

Eric McLoughlin
  • Member

  • 1,623 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 18 August 2004 - 07:01

I've just had my September edition of "Motor Sport" in this morning's post. It seems that, from the October edition onwards, the magazine is changing its masthead from green to red. Apparently they want to be more readily noticed on newsagents' magazine stands.

I have my reservations about this - any other opinions?

Advertisement

#2 Arjan de Roos

Arjan de Roos
  • Member

  • 2,583 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 18 August 2004 - 07:39

From BRG to Rosso Corsa?

I found the green quite serene but distintive at the book stand. Maybe red makes it harder to find among other flashing, sensational front covers.

#3 ian senior

ian senior
  • Member

  • 2,165 posts
  • Joined: September 02

Posted 18 August 2004 - 07:49

Pathetic. Surely green stands out from all the red already on the news stands? A change that doesn't need to be made.

#4 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 11,546 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 18 August 2004 - 07:50

:(

#5 Eric McLoughlin

Eric McLoughlin
  • Member

  • 1,623 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 18 August 2004 - 07:57

Another red top in a sea of red tops - how can that make it stand out? I fail to see the logic here.

Maybe they should have gone for a dayglo orange or lime green top - not too many of them around.

I presume the next move will be to have a bikini (or even less dressed!!!!) female on the cover draped over a body kitted Ferrari 250 GTO with lowered suspension and a 25,000 Watt stereo system fitted.

#6 Rob29

Rob29
  • Member

  • 3,582 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 18 August 2004 - 08:05

Is nothing sacred? My copy of September issue just came through the letter box,and I have yet to remove the plastic wrapper.Just as well as I might have choaked on my breakfast!
This is a magazine about history,and its colour is 80 years old. If its going to become a monthlly digest of what has already been in weekly Autosport/MSN I shall cancel my subscription now.

#7 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 61,759 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 18 August 2004 - 08:09

Of more concern to me is that the blurb seems to suggest that it will be more like Octane, which I like, but I don't want 2 mags covering 'supercars'...

When did the green covers start? Seems like they had different colours in the pre-picture years.

The worst of it is, though, that the distinctive title style is going.

#8 ghinzani

ghinzani
  • Member

  • 2,027 posts
  • Joined: October 01

Posted 18 August 2004 - 08:09

The Green 'un red? travesty. and I was thinking of a subscription! pah! :down:

#9 Garagiste

Garagiste
  • Member

  • 3,799 posts
  • Joined: January 00

Posted 18 August 2004 - 08:12

Oh dear. Given the way the mag is pitched, it's hardly going to have mass market appeal whatever colour it is. I'd imagine that the readership is pretty constant - new readers probably come along having had their interest sparked by attending a historic event, and I can't see them caring what colour the top is.
I find it very hard to imagine your typical "Max Power" laaads buying Motor Sport simply because it's red, so it's all a bit sad. Johnny Marketer has made another pointless fortune here methinks. :

#10 Eric McLoughlin

Eric McLoughlin
  • Member

  • 1,623 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 18 August 2004 - 08:29

I think green has featured as part of the cover right back to The Brooklands Gazette days. I have a huge collection of "Motor Sports" dating back to 1950 and they have certainly been green since then.

It struck me too that they seem to be pitching at "Octane" now. It's actually all a bit ironic. When "Motor Sport" changed to a more "historic" stance in 1997 there were loads of letters complaining about the change. It looks as if they are reverting to a slighltly more contemporary brief - which is not bad in itself actually - but the "red top" idea is just plain misguided, in my opinion.

#11 Vicuna

Vicuna
  • Member

  • 1,607 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 18 August 2004 - 08:41

I believe I will get over this...

#12 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 18 August 2004 - 09:33

Looks more like Autosport, doesn't it? : - I assume C&SC will get the cover redesigned to match too.

As long as the content remains roughly the same (although Simon Taylor's Modern Times column will stop talking in my sleep) I'll remain a subscriber.

#13 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 18 August 2004 - 09:34

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
I think green has featured as part of the cover right back to The Brooklands Gazette days. I have a huge collection of "Motor Sports" dating back to 1950 and they have certainly been green since then.

It struck me too that they seem to be pitching at "Octane" now. It's actually all a bit ironic. When "Motor Sport" changed to a more "historic" stance in 1997 there were loads of letters complaining about the change. It looks as if they are reverting to a slighltly more contemporary brief - which is not bad in itself actually - but the "red top" idea is just plain misguided, in my opinion.


Octane isn't a bad mag, some of the content's very readable, but it's expensive for what it is, and a bit too "up itself" and designery.

#14 RAP

RAP
  • Member

  • 702 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 18 August 2004 - 09:52

I think the green "only" goes back to c1951. My 1950 copies are a rather sickly yellow/brown (what my wife calls "babies' toilet" colour). Before that covers were white with a variable "mast head" of green red or blue.

#15 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 25,898 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 18 August 2004 - 10:00

Originally posted by Vicuna
I believe I will get over this...

Quite so.


Although I do decry any reduction in the use of BRG....;)

#16 David Beard

David Beard
  • Member

  • 4,997 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 18 August 2004 - 11:42

:mad: Exactly who's idea was this? They should own up.

#17 Ron Scoma

Ron Scoma
  • Member

  • 247 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 18 August 2004 - 12:00

The first Red cover I have is May 1934 and the last is July 1949.
Over the years there were various hues of Blues and Greens and even a Purplish one in November 1948 and a Silver one in August 1949.

Someday I will go through all my copies and see if any readers were upset at the new colour and format change in October 1949, November 1951, or October 1953 which is when the familiar Green Striped cover first appeared.
Incidentally, the August 1939 issue is when they added "Incorporating Speed" and omitted "Land-Air-Water" to the logo. November 1952 is the first issue that does not have "Incorporating Speed" printed on its cover. The last issue of Speed I have is April 1939, Vol. 4 No. 46.
The cover has changed more than a few times over the years so I suspect the new one is just another change to keep up with the times, although it does seem a bit unseemly, but after 50 years...

Ron Scoma

Badge Number 41

#18 panzani

panzani
  • Member

  • 18,732 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 18 August 2004 - 13:26

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
Another red top in a sea of red tops - how can that make it stand out? I fail to see the logic here.

IIRC ten, maybe twenty years ago the British traffic authorities made a research seeking the best car's colour to stand out at dawn and dusk. After some months - and much more quids - they said definitely yellow was the best colour to avoid accidents and make cars more visible. Then - after the research was made public - someone pointed out something like "but if all the cars are yellow, how could a single yellow car stand out from the others?"...

#19 T54

T54
  • Member

  • 2,504 posts
  • Joined: November 03

Posted 18 August 2004 - 13:46

Red, green, blue, what's the matter, is it going to clash in your library? If it increases sales, I am for it. The more money they get, the more they can afford good writers.

T54 :eek:

Advertisement

#20 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 18 August 2004 - 14:17

Originally posted by panzani

IIRC ten, maybe twenty years ago the British traffic authorities made a research seeking the best car's colour to stand out at dawn and dusk. After some months - and much more quids - they said definitely yellow was the best colour to avoid accidents and make cars more visible. Then - after the research was made public - someone pointed out something like "but if all the cars are yellow, how could a single yellow car stand out from the others?"...


An interesting aside, after being "post-office red", GPO/Telecom's vans were painted bright yellow to stand out by the roadside. Then, with the next pointless rebranding as BT the vans were painted.... pale grey. The same colour as the British sky. Very good for something that spends most of its time stationary by the roadside.

#21 2F-001

2F-001
  • Member

  • 4,244 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 18 August 2004 - 14:22

Eric - you've spolied my day with that news! Although sometimes I wonder why I care quiteso much...
At least MS keeps its masthead in a constant position, unlike Lowflying!

#22 KJJ

KJJ
  • Member

  • 702 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 18 August 2004 - 16:10

a red top! Girls draped on bonnets! I guess it is going to look like this then:

Posted Image



Simon Taylor's column confirms that the change of colour was thought up by the marketing "experts". I think it is just daft, the green cover gave Motor Sport far more recognizability. No doubt the contents will be acceptable, with the fabulous LAT archive on hand, it would be difficult to serve up an issue without something of interest. Long articles seem to be going out of fashion though.

#23 Muzza

Muzza
  • Member

  • 802 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 18 August 2004 - 16:32

Originally posted by ghinzani
The Green 'un red? travesty. and I was thinking of a subscription! pah! :down:


The only thing I will subscribe is to your words, ghinzani. I decided to postpone sine die my intention to subscribe to Motor Sport. Obviously this is not about the color of the cover only.

I worked for more than ten years for the world leading company in its business, and one of the decisions that most propelled me to quit was the culture brought in in recent years by management and marketing (external) consutants. Such a company, more than 100-year old, had always had its own culture, that not only made it stand out from the rest but also - in my opinion - was a significant reason for its long standing success and self-supported growth.

But the company decided to follow the advice given by the consultants and now it became "just another one". Before, employes would takle much pride in working there, were very committed to its initiatives and would introduce themselves as "My name is Sal, and I work for X". Today it is a matter of "My name is Sal, I am an engineer and I just happen to be working for X". This slight change is quite symptomatic.

I have sensed an interesting trend/approach in marketing and management consultants which I call "the golden march towards idiocy", as companies are less and less willing top risk, producing products that shape and disguise themselves as commodities and are all pitched in similar way.

Motor Sport needed to enhance its identity - what absolutely does not mean becoming "more elitist"; this is a stupid co-relation which has been made more than once by managers of its parent company (recently one of such "luminaries"popped up at a thread at Ten Tenths where members were complaining about recent changes to Autosport, and his comments were quite pathetic).

C'mon Motor Sport, you should be different thanthe rest - and not yet another car magazine. Why should I buy it instead of getting another publication, or not getting anything at all?

Sadly, the latter of this three choices is the one I most exercize nowadays.


Muzza

#24 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Moderator

  • 24,592 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 18 August 2004 - 16:46

If it's true that the reason for the change of colour is to make it stand out more on magazine racks, I think the logic is flawed. I usually pick up my copy from the local supermarket when I go food shopping. As I go through the door I glance across to the magazine racks, about fifty feet away, to check if I need to go there. I can see instantly if the new issue is out as the green stands out from the (predominantly) red of all the other titles. If it becomes red like the rest I shall have to get a lot closer to spot it.

#25 David Beard

David Beard
  • Member

  • 4,997 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 18 August 2004 - 17:03

I have just got my copy, with the preview of the disaster. I find it difficult to believe that the innards are not going to be similarly mutilated. :down:

#26 Vicuna

Vicuna
  • Member

  • 1,607 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 18 August 2004 - 18:25

Originally posted by BRG
Quite so.


Although I do decry any reduction in the use of BRG....;)


Of course you know there's no such thing as British Racing Green!

#27 Andrew Kitson

Andrew Kitson
  • Member

  • 2,535 posts
  • Joined: July 03

Posted 18 August 2004 - 19:20

Even with the red header, the typeface chosen is a disaster!
It looks cheap and nasty, not classic and stylish like the present logo.
As someone said - 'Hello' magazine. Why could they not just duplicate
the black/white 'MotorSport' logo and place this on the red?

As the magazine has historical content, the cover should reflect this.
I know which banner would look best trackside at the revival and the new one it ain't!
But - I suppose after a few months we will get used to it although I am sure we will
look back at our present collection and realise that yes it was better.

#28 Ruairidh

Ruairidh
  • Member

  • 1,074 posts
  • Joined: November 02

Posted 18 August 2004 - 19:37

Oh borrocks. I've just subscribed :mad: :mad:

But I did enjoy the last two - especially the Lotus 76 article.

#29 MCS

MCS
  • Member

  • 4,687 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 18 August 2004 - 19:43

Originally posted by petefenelon
Looks more like Autosport, doesn't it? : - I assume C&SC will get the cover redesigned to match too.

As long as the content remains roughly the same (although Simon Taylor's Modern Times column will stop talking in my sleep) I'll remain a subscriber.


Didn't quite follow you at first Pete with your reference to Taylor. Now see what you mean having looked at his "final" column which, needless to say, I couldn't even finish without feeling the urge to nod off. Dear God, let's hope he disappears once and for all.

Nigel Roebuck's piece - ostensibly on Jochen Rindt's performance at the 1969 Grand Prix was good. But as usual at this time of the year the magazine (yet again) seems overwhelmed by pictures, articles and pages and pages of ads on Goodwood.

Unlike Muzza, Don Capps, et al, I still subscribe, but it will be very interesting to see what we get in a month's time...

MCS

#30 Don Capps

Don Capps
  • Member

  • 5,933 posts
  • Joined: May 99

Posted 18 August 2004 - 19:49

Originally posted by MCS
Unlike Muzza, Don Capps, et al, I still subscribe, but it will be very interesting to see what we get in a month's time...


Actually, one shows up, as if by magic, in the mailbox each month.....

#31 Paul Taylor

Paul Taylor
  • Member

  • 1,312 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 18 August 2004 - 20:46

The colour is not going to affect my decision on buying it, although I don't like the fact they have gone for what I would call 'Ferrari colours' in which I'll certainly not want seen displayed on my shelf.

I'm only buying them still because I'm a completist - I'll continue my collection until the magazine dies because of it's own boredom.

#32 MCS

MCS
  • Member

  • 4,687 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 18 August 2004 - 21:15

Originally posted by Don Capps


Actually, one shows up, as if by magic, in the mailbox each month.....


I wonder why why ;)

MCS

#33 Twin Window

Twin Window
  • Nostalgia Host

  • 6,611 posts
  • Joined: May 04

Posted 18 August 2004 - 21:16

Having formerly (and proudly) worked on this title, plus being very fond of it too, I'd just like to point out that this is simply a progression of trends spawned in the late-'90s.

Count the number of 'Ferrari' front covers since 1998, and you'll start to see my point...

Twinny :(


#34 Eric McLoughlin

Eric McLoughlin
  • Member

  • 1,623 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 18 August 2004 - 21:29

Ah, the approach of The Red Menace. Maybe Senator McCarthy was right all along.

#35 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 11,546 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 18 August 2004 - 21:35

Why? What did Perry say about MotorSport?

#36 Twin Window

Twin Window
  • Nostalgia Host

  • 6,611 posts
  • Joined: May 04

Posted 18 August 2004 - 21:39

:lol:

#37 T54

T54
  • Member

  • 2,504 posts
  • Joined: November 03

Posted 18 August 2004 - 22:41

I'll continue my collection until the magazine dies because of it's own boredom.



What's the alternative?

#38 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 9,699 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 18 August 2004 - 22:52

Well, after reading everyone's comments I've decided I'll give it until my next subscription comes due. And then I will probably succumb to inertia! :)

#39 MCS

MCS
  • Member

  • 4,687 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 18 August 2004 - 23:21

Originally posted by T54


What's the alternative?


Whilst obviously assuming that you can continue to keep your "head above water" then there may be an alternative here within TNF...

MCS

Advertisement

#40 T54

T54
  • Member

  • 2,504 posts
  • Joined: November 03

Posted 18 August 2004 - 23:28

Yes indeed, but what do we do for tall stories?

#41 MCS

MCS
  • Member

  • 4,687 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 19 August 2004 - 00:02

Originally posted by T54
Yes indeed, but what do we do for tall stories?


Oh, hoo, hoo :lol:

Come on lads, some suggestions - I'm at a party on somebody else's PC - yikes!

Quick, quick...
MCS

#42 Don Capps

Don Capps
  • Member

  • 5,933 posts
  • Joined: May 99

Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:03

Originally posted by T54
What's the alternative?


Easy, TNF's Track Record: The Journal for Motor Racing History......

#43 Ruairidh

Ruairidh
  • Member

  • 1,074 posts
  • Joined: November 02

Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:05

Originally posted by Don Capps


Easy, TNF's Track Record: The Journal for Motor Racing History......







:clap: :clap: :clap: ........................if only!!!!!!!

#44 Kerb Bouncer

Kerb Bouncer
  • Member

  • 169 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:58

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Table of Contents for the first issue please!!! :up: :up: :up:

#45 Kerb Bouncer

Kerb Bouncer
  • Member

  • 169 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 19 August 2004 - 02:04

Really, it could be done:

Who won the 1939 Driver's Championship? p1

When did Grand Prix racing get replaced by Formula One p10

The Tasman Series--Best Racing of All Time ! p11

Historic Racing--Is it Historic, is it Racing? p20

The year of the four--1964 Auto Racing p21

Doug Nye on Whatever He Likes p31

The Connew--the Untold Story p44

Last Bits--Where are they now

#46 Mac Lark

Mac Lark
  • Member

  • 744 posts
  • Joined: April 02

Posted 19 August 2004 - 03:59

David McKinney should have a column.

And Buford could do his autobiography in a series of monthly installments.

#47 Mac Lark

Mac Lark
  • Member

  • 744 posts
  • Joined: April 02

Posted 19 August 2004 - 04:00

Originally posted by Mac Lark
David McKinney should have a column.


I meant 'must have' a column.

#48 Ruairidh

Ruairidh
  • Member

  • 1,074 posts
  • Joined: November 02

Posted 19 August 2004 - 04:03

Originally posted by Mac Lark


And Buford could do his autobiography in a series of monthly installments.


........ :up: :up:

And we need Twinny in this heady mix too.

With Luc (Pedro917) as photographer extraordinaire

#49 T54

T54
  • Member

  • 2,504 posts
  • Joined: November 03

Posted 19 August 2004 - 04:34

I was really asking, what is the alternative one can purchase TODAY... ? :|

#50 Arjan de Roos

Arjan de Roos
  • Member

  • 2,583 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 19 August 2004 - 06:48

I might be bothered by the color as well, still my biggest frustration is the fact that subscribers in main land Europe receive their copy just a week later than UK subs. Even worser is that MS shows up in the bookstands a few days earlier than in my mail box :mad:

Does my copy take the ferry or what? (Now I've turned red as well!)