102 replies to this topic

[Paul Newby]

I just read in the Sydney Morning Herald that ex 60's (Australian) F3 racer Barry Collerson has written a book called Mt Druitt to Monza and will be signing copies at the Sydney book shop Auto Bookworld next Thursday.

Being of the younger generation, Barry Collerson is a name I'm not that familar with, though I think I've seen him around the odd historic meeting and social gatherings. I recall that Graham Howard wrote a short piece several years ago on Barry giving a talk at an HSRCA meeting, and was impressed at how methodical his presentation was. He also said he resided on the outskirts of Sydney (near Windsor) where he bred - actually I can't remember what!

This got me searching out my old Sports Car World mags (66 and 67) and Barry's column Cold Coll-ations - what a strange name for a column! I must confess to my shame that I've never read these before and started on them tonight. I'm reminded of Ray Bell's thread on Wal Donnelly and photos of F3 cars on those magestic road circuits like Brno!

Ray and others - do you have many recollections of Barry Collerson and his continental F3 adventures?

Any advance information on Mt Druitt to Monza , which I must say is a great title!

[Stefan Ornerdal]

Barry Collerson's results in Europe 1966 can be found here:

http://www.formula2....F366_IndexE.htm

Stefan

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Paul Newby


This got me searching out my old Sports Car World mags (66 and 67) and Barry's column Cold Coll-ations - what a strange name for a column! I must confess to my shame that I've never read these before and started on them tonight.

Fans of Spike Milligan's autobiographies will be only too aware of
the horrors of Cold Collation - a sort of malevolent, limp collection
of cold meats and salad. (I believe in Oz it refers to assorted cold
desserts, though?)

[repcobrabham]

i know it's off-topic, but we call such an unappetising collection "cold cuts"

sorry to not offer anything of interest re the book ... but what a title! i suppose mt druitt was a rural oasis back then, rather than the poorly-planned suburban cesspool it is now

[Ray Bell]

No rural oasis, but a paddock with a large house and an airstrip in it!

What really appeals to me about this is the cars Barry's time in racing spanned... here he is in one of the early ones:



And this is one famous car... it had finished second in the Australian Grand Prix in 1952, having been through a number of famous hands to that time, but most notably was (at least in part...) the car which won the 1939 Australian Grand Prix.

Barry was, in this picture, driving it in its last AGP appearance, at Bathurst in 1958. But this wasn't the only AGP-winning car (or make, at least) Barry was to drive. Though it caused a mixture of mirth and wonderment at the time, he lifted his diminutive frame into an ex-Whiteford Lago Talbot... and though it seemed a big car for a small man, the heart was certainly big enough and the mirth turned to more complimentary smiles.

He also entered this car in the AGP at Lowood, but seemingly didn't actually go. I wonder if the book tells why?

Through the 1962-1965 period he descended to more modern rear-engined cars, first with a Hillman Minx engine, later with 1100 Ford in a neat Brabham.

Barry was one of those guys who was always there. Not gnawing at the tail of the leaders, not loafing around at the back, nor even filling the mid-field. He was in the group just off the winning pace. It was a total surprise to me when he announced he was going to Europe, but I really didn't know him. But so was Donnelly's announcement, as he had come to light driving an MG A and then put in a string of stunning performances in a Turner. His move was a surprise because he'd never driven an openwheeler.

It's fortunate that Barry has gone to print, I really do look forward to seeing the results... I wonder if he mentions that the homely Bill Cooke Peugeot Special passed him on the first lap of that race at Bathurst and then spun in front of him?

[Bernd]

Now that's a book title I never thought I'd see. What's next, Mallala to Monaco?

Any more news on this book signing? If I'm in the City on Thursday I'll pop in.

[john medley]

Certainly a great book title and , for those who experienced Mount Druitt in any form, a telling contrast : invariably dry and dusty, a huge yellow tussock-covered paddock across the top of a small rise above the little creek and the airstrip, the latter bounded by rusting bits of leftover flat bits of interlocking World War 2 steel. The circuit itself was rarely ever more than gravel, not least after the 1954 24 Hour Race tore it to bits, and it was not unusual to arrive at the start of a race weekend to find grass growing through the tar -- that was in the good times.
Barry Collerson's recollections published long ago in Racing Car News undoubtedly formed the basis of the book. Back then I found them fascinating : a colorful record of one who loved his motor racing , wanted to race in Europe, and went and did it -- on a shoe string, out of the back of a van, and fuelled always by raw enthusiasm, and a little bit of starting money, and in this way so similar to so many Antipodean motor cyclists who laid their lives on the line almost every weekend around Europe in the 40s and 50s and 60s. Barry lived to tell the tale ( some of his fellow competitors didnt, as I recall ).
I will definitely be buying the book.

[Paul Newby]

John, interesting analogy re the numerous motorcycle racers from Australia who made the journey over to Europe and lived the gypsy life living out of a van racing in obscure and far flung places. Many never came back.

It took me years to track down, but I have a copy of the Cox & Hagon book Australian Motorcycle Heroes 1949 - 1989 , which of course I've only flicked through - yet to read... I'm not really a motorcycle fan, but there's such a lot of stuff in there I don't know about, which I should, because a lot of these guys excelled on a pittance and they should be more widely recognised. Its always interesting learning new stuff (and it mostly happens here in TNF )

Looking through Cold Coll-ations it struck me that I had never heard of fellow Aussie racers Martin Davies and Kurt Keller. What ever happened to these guys?

I note that Collerson co-drove a Volvo 122S with (renowned Lancia specialist) Graham Ward in the 65 Bathurst 500 and finished in midfield. I wonder whether he mentions racing a Fiat 600 in the 63 Bathurst 500. I reckon that would be just as hairy as punting his F3 Cooper around Brno.

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by Paul Newby
John, interesting analogy re the numerous motorcycle racers from Australia who made the journey over to Europe and lived the gypsy life living out of a van racing in obscure and far flung places. Many never came back.

It took me years to track down, but I have a copy of the Cox & Hagon book Australian Motorcycle Heroes 1949 - 1989 , which of course I've only flicked through - yet to read... I'm not really a motorcycle fan, but there's such a lot of stuff in there I don't know about, which I should, because a lot of these guys excelled on a pittance and they should be more widely recognised. Its always interesting learning new stuff (and it mostly happens here in TNF )

Looking through Cold Coll-ations it struck me that I had never heard of fellow Aussie racers Martin Davies and Kurt Keller. What ever happened to these guys?

I note that Collerson co-drove a Volvo 122S with (renowned Lancia specialist) Graham Ward in the 65 Bathurst 500 and finished in midfield. I wonder whether he mentions racing a Fiat 600 in the 63 Bathurst 500. I reckon that would be just as hairy as punting his F3 Cooper around Brno.

Not sure about Davies but Kurt Keller was an Aussie-domiciled Swiss who tuned engines and raced. Among others, he 'breathed on' Dave Walker's engine when he was racing in Oz prior to returning to Europe after his original trip there had petered out. Kurt also came back to Europe and helped Barry a lot with entries etc.

I spoke to Barry recently when I was researching a piece on Dave Walker and he is heavily involved with ponies, maybe pony trotting but I can't recall for sure. If you search his name on the net, he comes up as President or whatever of a club related to this.

Barry also provided the 'Continental round-up'-type reports on European F3 races which appeared in Autosport every few weeks, in 1967, I think. As Ray said, he was often up with the leaders but never quite seemed to have quite the right equipment that surplus money can often buy, e.g. the best chassis and/or engine.

[repcobrabham]

oh, so there was a race track at mt druitt
as a young'un i didn't know that, but i've long been aware of the bowl that used to exist near my parents' house at maroubra (and have inspected that awesome tombstone for one of the best known racers that stands in diamond bay cemetery)
FWIW i did an advanced driver training course at amaroo in the early '90s: hasn't that been swallowed up by developers as well?
ironic that race tracks disappear as road cars - and high-speed road accidents - multiply

[Ray Bell]

Oh no... that's not right... high speed accidents are in decline, at least relatively speaking.

As for circuits disappearing, it's actually strange. Their average lifespan has increase quite dramatically in the past couple of decades.

Frank Burke pointed out that the average circuit's lifespan up to the seventies was less than a decade, while now we have very few existing circuits that have been around such a short time.

Amaroo was run for about thirty years before its closure, for instance, compared to Warwick Farm's 13. Mt Druitt was less than ten years, Oran Park is coming up for 43. Calder, Sandown, Mallala, Symmons Plains and Baskerville are all in that 40-45 year bracket, Phillip Island is 50 or very close to it (though it's had its closures and was closed at the time of Frank's statement, as was Mallala). AIR, about to be resurrected, was in use for over 20 years, and it's been there 33. That's one or two years less than Wanneroo, which has been active the whole time. Lakeside lasted 40 years and may yet see a rebirth, one just hopes QR is one of those that will return to the dust in short order...

[john medley]

.... although Mt Druitt CIRCUIT as opposed to just the airstrip lasted a bare 5 years. Like some later circuits it was in use virtually every weekend and by no means all its events ever made it to reports in magazines /newspapers. Amaroo is these days almost invisible; Mt Druitt likewise, but if you know where to look you can still find the remains of bits of the airstrip and on them some of the grader marks inflicted by Belf Jones in a fit of pique.

And, Paul, I too have /treasure/often reread the Cox/ Hagon book of Australian motorcycle racers overseas. It tells of a time long gone, when starting money ( if any) and poverty sustained those brave young men. While no motorcycle enthusiast myself, I really do admire what those people did -- and those that did make it back home often spent the rest of their lives forgotten men in low paid jobs, until Historic motorcycle racing organizers dragged them out into the light at the annual car/motorcycle extrava at Amaroo. I knew a few of them, and could almost write a book of their stories. One bloke whose name I now cant recall was so broke that he only ever raced in the UK and then only at circuits close to railway stations , because he used to wheel his bike to the train/ stand beside it on the train/ then wheel it to the circuit. Obviously, when serious sponsorship came in, it took away this sort of fun. You should read the book, Paul.

Barry Collerson's story is a bit like that, and should be entertaining or at least enlightening reading. I cant make it to the book signing on Thursday, but I'll be there in spirit and I'll get my copy a few days later.

[Paul Newby]

Its interesting, when I travel out to Oran Park from northern Sydney the long way (which you need to do if you are driving a road registered race car ) I normally go past Amaroo Park and the old Mt Druitt circuit (it used to be past Marsden Park but that really is a diversion) and I have checked out the "Whalan Reserve" it out courtesy of Graham Howard's old circuits article some years back - Steve Normoyle told me about the trip there and the "archeoligical dig" at Whalan.

Yes, I must read the Cox/Hagon book one day - the fact that its so hard to find a copy must mean that a lot of people have held onto this book, which must mean that its good. It certainly makes an interesting comparison to racing today. The excellent "Piers Courage - Last of the Gentleman Racers" also set the seen when it came to continental adventures. I can only imagine what it would have been like.

Getting back on topic, I've read all the Cold Coll-ations and they were an interesting read. Poor Barry never stood a chance really (at least in the first year) in being able to secure decent equipment to race (a budgetary thing?) but I'm sure he had the time of his life - unforgettable experiences. Don't really know what he did when he returned from Europe - retire from racing? Though no doubt the book will explain this. Unfortunately I can't make the book signing either.

John, we should try and meet up at EC this weekend. Coming out Sunday only.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Paul Newby
I note that Collerson co-drove a Volvo 122S with (renowned Lancia specialist) Graham Ward in the 65 Bathurst 500 and finished in midfield. I wonder whether he mentions racing a Fiat 600 in the 63 Bathurst 500. I reckon that would be just as hairy as punting his F3 Cooper around Brno.

Paul, co-in-cidently I was reading an RCN analysis of the 1963 and it only mentions Fiat 770's

[Ray Bell]

That was the larger-engined Fiat 600...

Outwardly the same, simply bigger engine capacity, still badged (IIRC) as a 600. Maybe '600D' or something like that.

[Catalina Park]

Thursday, I visited Sydney and dropped in to the launch of the Barry Collerson book, I saw a lot of faces that I knew including Frank Gardiner, Ron Tauranac and a few others.

Friday, I paid a visit to Mt Druitt to check out what remained of the track and the answer is very little. The road into the Whalan reserve that used to be the old airstrip was ripped up and resealed a few years ago removing any trace of the "Belf Jones ripping" I did find one bit of surviving bit of track surface, it would have been a bit of "Farm straight" but I could be wrong and it may have been "Stable straight" The tree in the school playground with the peg for the PA speaker is now dead and will not be around for much longer. All very sad.

I also poped out to the Creek for a look at the cars in todays historic meeting, a lot of nice machinery. It cheered me up after the visit to Mt Druitt.

[Ray Bell]

As one who has been visiting the site on and off for over 35 years, I went there about a year ago and found one stretch of about 200 feet which is clearly identifiable... Belf Jones' ripping and all...

It's where the circuit emerges from a backyard on the run from the pit area down to the airstrip.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
I also popped out to the Creek for a look at the cars in todays historic meeting, a lot of nice machinery. It cheered me up after the visit to Mt Druitt.

EASTERN CREEK HISTORICS 11-12 SEP 2004

Catalina.....

I was working at Flag Point 11 all weekend (thats coming into Turn 12) and thoroughly enjoyed both days in spite of the wind and cold.

Attempted to call an impromptu TNF meeting and got to chat with Paul Newby. Where were you Ray Bell? Forgot/too tired to try and contact the likes of Dick Willis who seemed to have good fun dicing closely with another open wheeler all weekend. Ran into David Paterson and his Uncle walking back to the carpark!! Now I find out Catalina Park was there!!

All in all, a successful meeting run by the ARDC for the HSRCA with (sadly) only 250 cars.

No Group C there - unfortunately.

The parade of ELFIN cars was fantastic (not to mention a fleeting appearance by the only Sports Sedan Garry Cooper put together)

Cheers, 275 GTB-4

[eldougo]

275 GTB-4 ... Were you out there on Saturday , i was in the pits, Brian Lear , Dick Willis ,John Medley, Ed Holly where the only TNFer's i came across , we must meet up at one day. Also i saw & talk to , John Cummins, Johnny Martin, Ken Ward (Racing his Rennmax) & Doug Marcarthur , Bob Muir,Peter Molloy (Still puffing on his pipe) & DonHolland (racing his F/Ford) just to name a few .

Eoin Young out there with a bunch of Kiwi lads on a historic trip from the land of the long white
cloud, he still looks much the same .On Sunday i am told Ken Goodwin, Ivan Tighe and Vern Scuhappen(Driving a F5000 ) Warwick Brown just looking,it's always great to meet up and have a quick chat to these blokes that made up my motorsport memories here in OZ.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
.....Where were you Ray Bell?

Brisbane... working!

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by eldougo


275 GTB-4 ... Were you out there on Saturday , i was in the pits, Brian Lear , Dick Willis ,John Medley, Ed Holly where the only TNFer's i came across , we must meet up at one day. Also i saw & talk to , John Cummins, Johnny Martin, Ken Ward (Racing his Rennmax) & Doug Marcarthur , Bob Muir,Peter Molloy (Still puffing on his pipe) & DonHolland (racing his F/Ford) just to name a few .

Eoin Young out there with a bunch of Kiwi lads on a historic trip from the land of the long white
cloud, he still looks much the same .On Sunday i am told Ken Goodwin, Ivan Tighe and Vern Scuhappen(Driving a F5000 ) Warwick Brown just looking,it's always great to meet up and have a quick chat to these blokes that made up my motorsport memories here in OZ.

Ell-D, yep there Saturday, same place, some of us have to work to make the meeting happen...it is soooo nice to ogle the machinery and chat with the many characters though. Oh! so was it Schuppan in the Elfin F5000? (where's my program....)...only problem with F5000 is I can't get enough of em!! Does Warwick still drive?? one quick pedaller in his day....

Also spotted a nice 633i Beemer opposite where I was and thought it might be David Towe, dialled the number and had a chat but unfortunately (as stated above) it would appear his season is over for Group C in NSW.

Ray your excused - hope you didn't get too sunburn't "working"

I am mostly busy at race meetings - we should organise a proper BBQ/get together or something, sometime, somewheres, somehow. Wakefield Park in November?

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
.....only problem with F5000 is I can't get enough of em!! Does Warwick still drive?? one quick pedaller in his day.....

When Warwick was doing his reverse-direction laps of Warwick Farm short circuit in the M10B... especially coming out of Paddock Bend onto Pit Straight all crossed up... one can be enough!

Did anyone ever mention that they were great cars?

[john medley]

Despite having The Dreaded Lurgi, I dont think I was so unwell as to not recall talking to you Eldougo, even though I wanted to, particularly to have an argument about early Ralts -- that is, after I'd had a lengthy discussion with early Ralt owner Tod Hamilton( who, by the way owns the most immaculate copy of a 96 year old Brooklands programme I've ever seen ).

I happily spent quite a lot of time with the inimitable John Cummins, not least when he and a traditional group of traditional desperates were investigating the cracked block on the Sulman Singer, bits and funny lines flying everywhere.

Of TNFers, I did some time with Brian Lear who threw away only one little nut on his immaculate Elfin Mono with the potential to do enormous damage but did none, Dick Willis rushing around hyperactively as usual doing several different things at once and having memorable Charlie Smith in tow, and Ed Holly whose Elfin Catalina was looking as good as ever. There were lots I didnt see, but then again we were parked right up the back and pretty busy : and a combination of Lurgi/ busy/ fatigue / general decrepitude caused me to not charge the battery overnight, the sudden Failure To Proceed just after the start causing no end of fun for the mob of chaps into Turn 2.

I think a TNF meeting point/ time at Wakefield Park is a good idea.

Eldougo, even though Ron Tauranac claimed last year he never used a single front upper link so Todd's Ralt cant be a Ralt, but those who know its history know that it is, what is the Expert Eldougo view of Todd's car? ( and indeed , of Eldougo's Peugeot powered Ralt?)

To restore this thread vaguely back to the original topic, an old John Cummins one liner to Barry Collerson: BC in his newly acquired ( newly borrowed?) Porsche greeted Cummo in an adjacent car on the way home traffic jam from Oran Park. Cummo returned the greeting : " I dont speak to people in Porsches", at which moment BC's Porsche hit the car in front. Cummo "...... especially bent Porsches."

[Ray Bell]

You're starting to repeat yourself... you're getting as bad as Cummo Himself!

What a shame I can't make it to a lot of these events. Maybe Wakefield timing will be better...

[eldougo]

Hi John i saw you and by the time i got down from the top you had gone (So your memory is OK),
Onto the Ralt questions .Todd's Ralt is the real deal to my mind and i know Ron has a good memory but he is not correct with that statement ,and a few others regarding his and his brothers early work (the 2 have conflicting statement about their cars history and details) . It was a long time ago and he never like to see his old handy work ,even in the early years of the Ralt production cars of the late 70's ,that is the way he is ,always looking ahead.
In regards to my Ralt - PUG, he still has not viewed it at close quarters ,hopefully it will be after Bathurst this year.

Ok we will have to get together at Wakefield Park this year.Saturday afternoon Barby. sounds good to me.

[Vicuna]

I was a Kiwi at Eastern Creek over the weekend.

Loved seeing the Matich SR3 - my highlight having never seen it in the flesh before.

Beautiful.

Shame there were no Elfin 400s for it to play with - it was an Elfin benefit afterall!

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
...we should organise a proper BBQ/get together or something, sometime, somewheres, somehow. Wakefield Park in November?

You expect me to travel all the way to Wakefield Park?

[Ray Bell]

Over my... err... your... well, somebody's dead body!
























And please, let's not be starting any 'Why did the wombat cross the road?' jokes, eh?

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Vicuna
I was a Kiwi at Eastern Creek over the weekend.

Loved seeing the Matich SR3 - my highlight having never seen it in the flesh before.

Beautiful.

Shame there were no Elfin 400s for it to play with - it was an Elfin benefit afterall!

Hi Vicuna, I stayed with my Kiwi brother in law on Friday nite in the Hills District!! Which part of NZ do you hail from?

The Matich SR3 is one of my all time favourites (there are lots, mind) because I still remenber seing Frank race it but the Chevron B8 has become a recent fav and Max certainly knows how to wring its neck! The dices between the two were a little erratic making me think maybe the B8 had a problem, as it usually runs away and hides!!

Wakefield in November is the HSRCA Xmas Party so there will be a little bit of atmosphere there anyway! BBQ sounds good - organise a time and place closer to the event.

Everyone should wear big paper name badges ....hmmmm 5" letters saying 275... :

We should also take a collection to help Catalina Park to make the big trek ;)

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by Ray Bell

Now where have I seen him before?

[Vicuna]

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4


Hi Vicuna, I stayed with my Kiwi brother in law on Friday nite in the Hills District!! Which part of NZ do you hail from?

We should also take a collection to help Catalina Park to make the big trek ;)

The Hills District? I don't know if that is the evocatively named Rooty Hill (it's true) but that's where I was.

Big trek?

NZ to Aus for a weekend of Historic Car Racing is a big trek. If you're already there, there's no excuse. Is there?

[Ray Bell]

Yeah, I was working...

As for Rooty Hill, it's a little ways away from the 'Hills District'... which more or less starts at Baulkham Hills and goes out through Castle Hill and probably includes Dural, Annangrove, Kenthurst, Rouse Hill and peters our somewhere around Oakville.

[john medley]

Ray, I may have repeated myself, but I would point out that among me and my friends that is not a crime. Our favourite joke, our daily familiar story, and our rule for living concerns the 3 elderly gentlemen on a train in the UK
elderly 1: " Is this Wembley?"
elderly 2: "No, it's Thursdee"
elderly 3: " So am I. Let's all get off and have a drink"

Eldougo, if the Todd H Ralt is the real deal ( and like you, I think it is), then do you think it is the car that went from Noel Hall to Toby Hindes to Todd H?

And my list of TNFers I saw omitted the remarkable John Ellacott, who was causing widespread jaw dropping with his latest folder of amazing photographs he took Back Then. John was easy to identify : he was the one walking around waving the Collerson book ( particularly the colour cover with one of his photos) and shouting " Look! I'm Published at Last!"

[Ray Bell]

Oh, that's marvellous... I'll even forgive the sad, sad tale of the old men on the train in the Olde Dart for the sake of that news.

What's the pic they used on the cover? A green Brabham at Catalina Park?

[john medley]

A blue Lago Talbot driven by a small man at Catalina Park

[Ray Bell]

Oh... right...

Hope they keep a copy aside for Egon then!

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Vicuna


The Hills District? I don't know if that is the evocatively named Rooty Hill (it's true) but that's where I was.

Big trek?

NZ to Aus for a weekend of Historic Car Racing is a big trek. If you're already there, there's no excuse. Is there?

Yep Ray is right, Baulko is where I stayed Castle Hil have friends and rellos in Castle Hill but thats just that little bit further away!!

NZ to Aus is a trek and you should be congratulated for your dedication! or something!! :

[Dick Willis]

My apologies for not getting onto this thread before but I have been preoccupied with Group L business as J.Medley had alluded to.

Firstly I had a great time at the Creek, had some good dices with Ray Hangar and Sean Whelan, both with too much grunt from their BDA's for my poor little twin cam, but wasn't there a huge field of wings and slicks cars, thirty in all and seven RT4's.

I just had to buy the Barry Cllerson book, which after all is what this thread was originally all about, got it autographed by him and then took his photo beside my car, more history.

I liked the chapter in the book where he arranged to trade in the Lago on a Lotus Elite and left a deposit with the dealer who then pocketed the money and forgot to pass on the order to the factory, so who was the dealer, was it the brothers who raced the black cars ?

My friend Charlie Smith who was with me at the weekend and who came in grinning from ear to ear after having a drive of Ed Holley's Elfin, which he used to own, in the Elfin demo, had forgotten that he had sold Barry a 1500 crank and rods until reminded of it in the book but it came to sad end when the crank broke and destroyed Barry's engine.

Now to get slightly OT, and El Dougo should be able to help me with this ; I have recently bought the wrecked remains of Lynx 103, originally raced by Don Lapham, was the frame for this car built by Lynx or Ron Tauranac. I understood that when Lynx took over the car project from RT that several partly or completed frames came with the deal and this being an early one may have been one of these.

Finally, yes it is time we had a TNF get together and the WP Christmas meeting sounds like a good idea, that is, of course, if I can get away from chasing up these Group L people.

[eldougo]

Hi Dick . Not to sure about that LYNX 103 , i will try to find more info.

[eldougo]

Hi Dick . All i have is that Lynx 103 was built in 1961 by lynx for a Dave Kirby (nsw) , it was in complete and it is unknown what motor was fitted or any racing history. I used to have on computer info about Lynx cars from a David Lawry in Adelaide he currently owns chassis 102 the
ex John Marston car, before i got it onto disc i lost the lot
_________________________

[eldougo]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by john medley


Eldougo, if the Todd H Ralt is the real deal ( and like you, I think it is), then do you think it is the car that went from Noel Hall to Toby Hindes to Todd H?

__________________________
The answer to this question is NO it not the same car.That was Ralt 4 (Eldougo car)??? as per my PM to you yesterday.
Ralt Vincent:-1959 /60 built by Austin & Ron Tauranac at their Service Station at the Circular Quay ,it was made for Toby Hindes and was red in colour and had no 15 for it's first competion at WarwickFarm in September 1961 (43 years ago) it had a V twin 998cc motor this time out then later it was fitted with a 500cc motor he kept it until 1962/63 and sold it to Todd Hamilton who lived in Sydney he raced it in hillclimbs and road racing and is still in his possession in 2004.
____________________________

[eldougo]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by john medley


Eldougo, if the Todd H Ralt is the real deal ( and like you, I think it is), then do you think it is the car that went from Noel Hall to Toby Hindes to Todd H?

__________________________
The answer to this question is NO it not the same car.That was Ralt 4 (Eldougo car)???
Ralt Vincent:-1959 /60 built by Austin & Ron Tauranac at their Service Station at the Circular Quay ,it was made for Toby Hindes and was red in colour and had no 15 for it's first competion at WarwickFarm in September 1961 (43 years ago) it had a V twin 998cc motor this time out then later it was fitted with a 500cc motor he kept it until 1962/63 and sold it to Todd Hamilton who lived in Sydney he raced it in hillclimbs and road racing and is still in his possession in 2004.
____________________________

[john medley]

Eldougo, my apologies - I didnt know your PM was there. I've checked since with Tod Hamilton who checked with Toby Hindes and his son, and all three are of the view that the Tauranac brothers built the Ralt Vincent that Tod now owns not for Toby Hindes but for Peter Wilkins who had wearied of competing in an MG. This was the same Peter Wilkins who later owned all the Ralt bits/pieces/drawings and took them with him when he went to form, with John Bruderlin and Leon Thomas, Lynx Engineering. The car was sold to Toby Hindes by the Tauranac brothers, with Peter Wilkins spannering . The 998cc motor blew up and was replaced by a 500cc single.

In regard to Lynx chassis 103, I have already mentioned to its new proud owner what I think I know about the car, recognizing that there are gaps in my knowledge : built for David Kirby, sold incomplete to Bill Maclachlan ( yes, former Mackellar V8 driver and founder of the Australiana Village at Wilberforce), sold to Don Lapham of Orange who drove it at Towac and elsewhere ( mid 60s). In perhaps 1974-75, Peter Macleay, Geoff McGrath, and I went to Orange and bought it off Don. What was supposed to be a 3 person partnership somehow turned into Peter assuming sole ownership, and the car sat under my carport for a long long time , sold after Peter's death to, I think , Peter Mohr. I cant recall how it got to Bernie Leimeister, but maybe Terry Harris had a hand in it somewhere... and then Bernie crashed it at Lakeside, and Dick is the 2004 proud new owner.

[Vicuna]

The indecently quick Match 77B of Ty Hanger was shown in the programme as a '28185'.

Why?

One car that really impressed me last weekend - cause I'd never seen one in the flesh before - was No. 111, a Renmax BN2.

Beautiful, almost BT esque proportions.

Were they quick in their day? I guess that means, as quick as an Elfin 600.

[eldougo]

Quote ... john medley 19-Sep-04 16:22

Eldougo, my apologies - I didnt know your PM was there. I've checked since with Tod Hamilton who checked with Toby Hindes and his son, and all three are of the view that the Tauranac brothers built the Ralt Vincent that Tod now owns not for Toby Hindes but for Peter Wilkins who had wearied of competing in an MG. This was the same Peter Wilkins who later owned all the Ralt bits/pieces/drawings and took them with him when he went to form, with John Bruderlin and Leon Thomas, Lynx Engineering. The car was sold to Toby Hindes by the Tauranac brothers, with Peter Wilkins spannering . The 998cc motor blew up and was replaced by a 500cc single.
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The last time i spoke to Peter Wilkins , was at his work place in Santa Ana, back in the March 1991 . according to him he (along with Bruderlin & Thomas) they all bought the Ralt Jig's and part's and were taken to a workshop in South Straithfield before going to the Lynx site later that year. 1961 where they finished it off ,and by that time RonTauranac had gone to the UK and Austin was still around helpin out some time's,he also said that the car was at the Sydney Motor Show along with another Ralt chassis (bare frame only ).So in away it was his once but never raced by him because it was sold to Toby Hindes and as i said raced at Warwick Farm in September 1961. I have not been able to find out date of Show just to confirm date's told by Peter (He passed away in 1998 feb ) sad .

[eldougo]

Originally posted by Vicuna
The indecently quick Match 77B of Ty Hanger was shown in the programme as a '28185'.

Why?

One car that really impressed me last weekend - cause I'd never seen one in the flesh before - was No. 111, a Renmax BN2.

Beautiful, almost BT esque proportions.

Were they quick in their day? I guess that means, as quick as an Elfin 600.

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Hi there Vicuna.
I do not know why the March had that number's ????? Strange . Ty is a very hard charger and it was a shame when it broke it top bolt in the left front suspension and turned a hardleft into the concrete wall at turn 2 at the Creek. ,but Ty is OK that the main thing.)

Most Rennmax's where copy's of Brabhams by Bob Britton , they were quick as a Elfin 600 depending on the driver's they had of course.Lovely cars

[Vicuna]

Originally posted by eldougo


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Hi there Vicuna.
Ty is a very hard charger and it was a shame when it broke it top bolt in the left front suspension and turned a hardleft into the concrete wall at turn 2 at the Creek. ,but Ty is OK that the main thing.)

I happened to be right there when he did it. Up until it had been a top race.

[Catalina Park]

I was standing on the pit building on Friday watching the Pacifics down the straight and into turn one. I thought that the RT4s may be able to take turn one flat with a good driver and the rest would have a little lift. To my surprise the only car taking turn one flat was Ty Hanger!
I thought that only the ground effect cars would have any chance! It just shows how good Ty is.

I have taken turn one without lifting but you can do that in a HQ Holden!

[Dick Willis]

Catalina,

If you had been watching from there on the Saturday and Sunday you would have seen a lot more in Group Q/R taking turn one flat, I certainly can if I take a deep breath and so too did most of the cars I was racing with.
I even saw Graham Brown go round there without lifting in his Brabham FJ.

[Vicuna]

Dick I 've been studying my programme and see your car is entered as a "1972 Brabham Dolphin BT36"

I remember admiring it in the pits.

I've been thinking about the aquatic part and am guessing it has nothing to do with the F.Junior builder. From somewhere in the bowels of my memory the name Tony Stewart is coming to me.

Am I on or off target and is it a former Van Heusen car?