20 replies to this topic

[dajwalia]

I was visiting f1.com. The section where they have the first pictures from Monza has this picture of Mclaren's nose. http://www.formula1....allery/728.html

All the pictures on f1 have a caption associated with them. I believe the caption on this nose picture is incomplete. But is this the new nose that Mclaren has been trying to introduce ? Any more stories about new nose ?

[Nazzz]

Yep! sure is the new nose.
Its the wider nose they first tested at silverstone after the british GP and then tested it on both cars during the whole of the monza test last week.
I wonder if we will see the narrow nose again

[Enkei]

Expect not to see the needlenose back ever again.

[Vilenova]

Too bad, that needlenose was sexy.

[HSJ]

I'm a bit suprised to see McL debut that nose in Monza. It looks like it would add drag, the last thing you want in Monza. But then again, they will be trimming down the wings anyway so maybe overall it is beneficial. And if Turun Sanomat's story (by Paolo Filisetti, a techie supposedly) is to be believed, the new, wider nose will improve handling over kerbs and bumps, something McLaren are having some trouble with. However, he did not justify that really so it might be nothing more than a wild guess. Interesting anyway.

[Crackerboy]

Take a look at the front wing. I believe the one paired to the wide nose has less surface and possibly fewer elements.

[Nazzz]

Take a look at the front wing. I believe the one paired to the wide nose has less surface and possibly fewer elements.

True! but i also cant help thinking tht the wing on this new wider nosecone is very similar if not the same to tht of the MP4-19A when it was first tested.

[mudpuppy]

Monza is a low-downforce, low-drag, high speed circuit. I wonder how the nose (vs the wing) contributes here?

[HSJ]

Does anyone know whether Mercedes are bringing any improvements? Ferrari are as far as I know, and normally all the top teams try to have engine upgrades for Monza. So Ferrari (probably) are, but how about Merc, BMW, Honda, Renault? How about Sauber, are they due an upgrade, aren't they supposed to run one spec behind Ferrari, so if Ferrari get a new one now, then Sauber could get the 'old' Ferrari spec engines?

Btw, KR is quoted in Turun Sanomat now saying that he thinks McLaren Mercedes are still behind in straightline speed.

[Nazzz]

Does anyone know whether Mercedes are bringing any improvements? Ferrari are as far as I know, and normally all the top teams try to have engine upgrades for Monza. So Ferrari (probably) are

but Ferrari have allready said a few races ago that they have stopped the development of this years car. The only development Ferrari have between now and the end of the season is from Bridgstone tyre upgrades.

[Enkei]

Originally posted by Nazzz


but Ferrari have allready said a few races ago that they have stopped the development of this years car. The only development Ferrari have between now and the end of the season is from Bridgstone tyre upgrades.

They stopped developing but they still have new parts for the remainder of the season ready to introduce. Ofcourse engine and tyres will be developed as well.

[GhostR]

Most teams bring Monza-specific updates to this race. Ferrari included, even though they say they've stopped development. All that statement means is that they've stopped thinking up new ideas, they've probably got a stockpile of stuff they want to try out and maybe use through the rest of the year.

[Uxoros]

I think the new nose of the McLaren means definitely the end of the double-keel.

[davegp3]

It's a shame, I loved that thin anteater nose

[kos]

Originally posted by Uxoros
I think the new nose of the McLaren means definitely the end of the double-keel.

How's that???

[Uxoros]

Because the narrow nose was there to make the twin-keel work more efficiently, with more air coming on the front. But both Williams and McLaren failed, because they underestimated the amount of air coming under the car at high speed and it become "packed", which results in a disadvantage. So the wider nose is a concept which goes completely to the opposite of the twin-keel. Newey said yesterday to french TV that he carried one with the twin-keel on the MP4/19 because they didn't have enough data to go back to the single keel. It was too risky he said. But for next year, the MP4/20 will have a single keel again.

[WACKO]

They have tested this one before. It should be more efficient and equalizing air movement towards the rear. With this they are effectively back in line with the other teams. It's quiet impressive though how they have bounced back from the MP4-18 and 19A misfortunes.

[f1rules]

I think its the most impressive comeback in a long time. In the beginning of the year they were down in almost every area on the car, aero, chassis, brake not to mention engine. Know they are the number one michelin team, they are the only team who has beaten ferrari fair and square this year and they are know setting the top speed marks on a engine demanding track like monza.
Big congra. to the whole team and to us the fans who sufferede so much.

[f1rules]

Originally posted by Uxoros
Because the narrow nose was there to make the twin-keel work more efficiently, with more air coming on the front. But both Williams and McLaren failed, because they underestimated the amount of air coming under the car at high speed and it become "packed", which results in a disadvantage. So the wider nose is a concept which goes completely to the opposite of the twin-keel. Newey said yesterday to french TV that he carried one with the twin-keel on the MP4/19 because they didn't have enough data to go back to the single keel. It was too risky he said. But for next year, the MP4/20 will have a single keel again.

did newey say they would change concept or is it your own conclusion to that interview, because i definitly dont think they are going for a single keel solutuion next year. Look at the mp4-17D its also featured a twin keel despite its more conventionel nose. Besides mclarens twin keel concept seems to function pretty wel and they have a lot information on it. Perhaps at bet is in its place

[wagner]

Originally posted by Uxoros
Because the narrow nose was there to make the twin-keel work more efficiently, with more air coming on the front. But both Williams and McLaren failed, because they underestimated the amount of air coming under the car at high speed and it become "packed", which results in a disadvantage.

Well isn't this wider nose the solution then: less air under the nose and more tow out from there -> underpressure and downforce at front

Visually the sidepod change before France already improved the rear stability and downforce a lot

[Uxoros]

No, I think it's a fact : McLaren will switch to single keel next year. The new nose of the MP4/19B exactly doesn't improve the twin-keel concept as it hasn't been made to improve it. Well, let's say, it's a compromise, because the older nose's ultimate goal was to improve the air flow. Now they've changed their mind now and I think that's partly because of the (Ferrari) ideas of Tombazis, who created that larger nose.