107 replies to this topic

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

I dont know if this thread belongs in the Nostalgia Forum but I just had to post it. All i can say is 'WOWWWW'. I love the way Senna's Mclaren comes out of the tunnel and blips down the gears like a motorbike, I've watched that bit 20 times in a row and I still get goosebumps watching it. I also noticed that Senna was inch-perfect around Monaco too, more awesome due to the fact that he had a manual-sequential car, but I always thought that smoothness and inch perfection were Prost's thing? Even so, one awesome download!!! Love Senna's commentary too.

http://www.f1-fansit.....pole lap.mpeg

[George Bailey]

Great stuff.

Speed at it's most pure state.

[Ozz88]

yeah, I knew this one, this is one of the best onboard clips i've seen.

What I like is the look on Prosts face and his reaction at the end of the clip

[speedmaster]

Ayrton was from other world... it was pure magic his driving.....

Senna 4 ever

[SeanValen]

He was something special at Monaco, just suited him, qualifying was so important there, and he was awesome around one lap, from the 84 wet Monaco race that started his stardom, Monaco and Senna are intertwined, add his spiritual beliefs, quite a package for a fan not to forget.

[dick]

What is really amazing is that it is a regular H-pattern gearbox, not sequential. Ah, the art of heel and toe, where has it gone.

[911]

What's amazing is that he "could" have won this event another two times in 1984 & 1988, and this would have given him 8 wins at Monaco.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Originally posted by 911
What's amazing is that he "could" have won this event another two times in 1984 & 1988, and this would have given him 8 wins at Monaco.

Wasnt he also a strong contender in 1985 and 1986 too? Just imagine...Ayrton Senna winning the Monaco Grand Prix for 10 years in a row, from 1984-1993. The most ironic thing is that he had a chance in EVERY year (dont know about '86) to win. Just one word to describe the man and that is awesome. I've used his words '...something happens inside you and you can fly very high' as a motivational tool when I am boxing. I'm now proud to say that i am 13-0 in super middleweight bouts. Just awesome man, just awesome.

What is really amazing is that it is a regular H-pattern gearbox, not sequential. Ah, the art of heel and toe, where has it gone.

Really? That makes it even more special then. I always thought that the H-boxes finished around the mid-1980's and sequential's were introduced for 5 years and then the paddles (which remain to this day). My dad's car has a sequential shift, it's pretty cool. Makes for much quicker gearchanges and allows him to drive like a looney without losing too much reaction time

[F1 Tor.]

Great stuff. Thank you

[Gabbiano]

...that looks and sounds like sequential shifting to me...anyone know if the MP4/5 had an "H" pattern gearbox? (I would imagine by 1989 everyone would have a sequential box)

[CaptnMark]

Originally posted by Ozz88

What I like is the look on Prosts face and his reaction at the end of the clip

It really says it all.

[senna da silva]

I love Prost's face at the end. LOL.

[snash]

Originally posted by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
Really? That makes it even more special then. I always thought that the H-boxes finished around the mid-1980's and sequential's were introduced for 5 years and then the paddles (which remain to this day). My dad's car has a sequential shift, it's pretty cool. Makes for much quicker gearchanges and allows him to drive like a looney without losing too much reaction time

Only Ferrari had the semi-automatic gearbox in 1989. IIRC, McLaren-Honda did not have one until 1990.

[Gabbiano]

right, but the MP4/5 probably had a sequential box, even though it's not 'semi-automatic'...

[911]

Fyi.. small correction on the title of this thread. This footage is actually from the 1990 season, not 1989.

[MPJay]

It's a good clip, but i like the Suzuka pole lap clip better, its a common clip often seen online. The way the car wants to swap ends under braking for Casio Triangle as he's steering one handed and downshifting, manual gearbox! is amazing.

[Arioch]

Great vid! Truly magical.

[Corners]

That video is 1991 pole position lap as you can see by the front wing end plates and the external view in the tunnel, Prost was at Ferrari then. I should imagine its pretty rigorous in any of the 26 cockpits qualifying that day you shouldn't be impressed by the violence and speed of it all but what you should be impresed with is how Senna can squeeze those extra tenths out of the car actually under those circumstances.

[911]

Originally posted by Corners
That video is 1991 pole position lap as you can see by the front wing end plates and the external view in the tunnel...

Actually, this was an error on the company that produced this video. This was put together for the video, Racing is in My Blood. The original shot of this video shows the #27 car coming out of the tunnel. The only reason why there isn't an in-car footage of Senna's actual lap was due to the video breakup on the monitor.

If you look closely you'll see that the rearview mirrors are attached to the cockpit. This is on the 1990 McLaren. In 1991 the rearview mirrors are sitting on top of the sidepods.

911

[speedmaster]

Originally posted by MPJay
It's a good clip, but i like the Suzuka pole lap clip better, its a common clip often seen online. The way the car wants to swap ends under braking for Casio Triangle as he's steering one handed and downshifting, manual gearbox! is amazing.

link please? Thanks

Senna 4 ever !!!

[WACKO]

Originally posted by Corners
That video is 1991 pole position lap as you can see by the front wing end plates and the external view in the tunnel, Prost was at Ferrari then.

Yep, that was my idea too. I had this video already and as you can see the complete car in the tunnel, it is indeed the MP4/6 from 91.

[911]

I've got to admit, as much as I like this Monaco clip, I do like the Suzuka (from 1989) one better. I think a lot has to do with the speed of the car when he goes through 130R!

[Corners]

Originally posted by 911


Actually, this was an error on the company that produced this video. This was put together for the video, Racing is in My Blood. The original shot of this video shows the #27 car coming out of the tunnel. The only reason why there isn't an in-car footage of Senna's actual lap was due to the video breakup on the monitor.

If you look closely you'll see that the rearview mirrors are attached to the cockpit. This is on the 1990 McLaren. In 1991 the rearview mirrors are sitting on top of the sidepods.

911

Yes absolutely correct I wasn't going to mention that cause it gets so confusing, I remember Steve Rider in (like you said) 1990 commentating for Grandstand for BBC about the incredible lap(on board) Senna had put in for Pole I think it might've been the first sub 1.20 at the time if I remember(perhaps not).
I think it was incomplete because they lost the footage through the tunnel but chose the wrong year when adding the external view in editing.
He took Pole both years anyway, I loved the 1990 race I think I remember them having a camera down inside the cockpit near his left knee looking up at him during the race, he was way out in the lead and was seemingly cruising along with his overals unbuttoned at the top because of the heat.
Nice to know you're so clued up about it so many people get it all wrong.

[Dudley]

I have this footage from the FrontRunner Video 1990 F1 review. There you get the right external shot in the tunnel.

[senna da silva]

Originally posted by Corners
Yes absolutely correct I wasn't going to mention that cause it gets so confusing, I remember Steve Rider in (like you said) 1990 commentating for Grandstand for BBC about the incredible lap(on board) Senna had put in for Pole I think it might've been the first sub 1.20 at the time if I remember(perhaps not).
I think it was incomplete because they lost the footage through the tunnel but chose the wrong year when adding the external view in editing.
He took Pole both years anyway, I loved the 1990 race I think I remember them having a camera down inside the cockpit near his left knee looking up at him during the race, he was way out in the lead and was seemingly cruising along with his overals unbuttoned at the top because of the heat.
Nice to know you're so clued up about it so many people get it all wrong.

He did a 1:21.314.

[Corners]

Actually I'm wrong about the 1.20 he did a 1.21.314 in 1990 and 1.20.344 in 1991 but anyway gtray stuff, I'm surprised no-one else has anymore footage. I've got all the race since 2002 full length on DVD I wish I had the a few more years though, I suppose it'll be great though in about 10 years looking back at them.

[philhitchings]

this is on one of the many CD's I've bruned over the last few years, easy to lose and "forget" thanks for reminding me of my collection!

[Kojima_KE007]

Originally posted by Gabbiano
right, but the MP4/5 probably had a sequential box, even though it's not 'semi-automatic'...

IIRC, one of the first, if not "the first" F1 cars to have a sequential gearbox was the Arrows FA13 (1992) and all other cars either had H patern gearboxes or semi-automatic gearboxes.

You can actually hear Senna jumping a gear or two into some of the corners (which you can not do with a sequential box) instead of shifting down sequentially (e.g. from 5th to 3rd instead of 5th, 4th, 3rd into Casino) to save time.
Drivers preferred H pattern boxes to sequential boxes for that reason as well.

[Jason]

Originally posted by speedmaster


link please? Thanks

Senna 4 ever !!!

I downloaded a bunch of Senna clips off the web. See the following topic: http://forums.atlasf...&threadid=73155
A lot were from "F1 Racing World" which unfortunately isn't working, ATM. I wish I could upload a few of them somewhere, but I don't have any webspace.

[911]

Getting back to the topic of the thread... From the original clip, does anyone remember that Senna was even slowed by a backmarker (Onyx?) coming out of the swimming pool area? At the time Jackie Stewart was covering this race for ABC sports in the States. He said that this "hold up" cost Senna a second on that pole position lap. If that were the case, then Prost would have had a very sour look on his face!

[dick]

I'm sure that is a regular H-pattern gearbox. I'm not completely sure, but I don't think F1 ever used sequential gearboxes like Cart. It was a regular box until the advent of paddle shifters. I wish they'd go back to working a regular H-pattern box. Increase the drivers' work load which might lead to mistakes and more overtaking.

[911]

Originally posted by dick
I'm sure that is a regular H-pattern gearbox. I'm not completely sure, but I don't think F1 ever used sequential gearboxes like Cart. It was a regular box until the advent of paddle shifters. I wish they'd go back to working a regular H-pattern box. Increase the drivers' work load which might lead to mistakes and more overtaking.

I believe you are correct on this. I don't recall F1 going to a sequential gearbox because the semi-automatic gearboxes came out in '89 (Ferrari). So, I think most teams jumped right into the paddle shifters as soon as their R & D allowed. I think Williams did it in '91, and then McLaren did in Mexico, 1992, I believe.

[The Fazz]

What was also amazing was the real sensation of speed from the on board cams in those days. Modern technology has made the current on-board cams look like video games. Also - great to see drivers working hard in the cockpit... the un-powered steering, the bumps, the corrections and the shifting all at the same time is simply an awesome sight to behold.

[speedmaster]

Originally posted by Jason

I downloaded a bunch of Senna clips off the web. See the following topic: http://forums.atlasf...&threadid=73155
A lot were from "F1 Racing World" which unfortunately isn't working, ATM. I wish I could upload a few of them somewhere, but I don't have any webspace.

Thanks Jason... but the only way I see is through file sharing or msn...

[speedmaster]

Originally posted by The Fazz
What was also amazing was the real sensation of speed from the on board cams in those days. Modern technology has made the current on-board cams look like video games. Also - great to see drivers working hard in the cockpit... the un-powered steering, the bumps, the corrections and the shifting all at the same time is simply an awesome sight to behold.

Hope they bring back the driver back someday...computers are not even 1/1000th of the fun..

[CevertInBlue1973]

Wicked video !!

Love the look on Prost's face.Never did like Prost,real asshole . The look makes ya smile dosn't it !!

R.I.P Aryton . The King of the Track

[indigoid]

magic

[MichaelJP]

Originally posted by The Fazz
What was also amazing was the real sensation of speed from the on board cams in those days. Modern technology has made the current on-board cams look like video games. Also - great to see drivers working hard in the cockpit... the un-powered steering, the bumps, the corrections and the shifting all at the same time is simply an awesome sight to behold.

Absolutely. I've got that "Lap of the Gods" video where some of the laps are recorded by film cameras mounted on the cars - amazing footage, especially the 6-wheel Tyrrell.

We all know the g-forces on the drivers of today are bigger than ever before, but it just doesn't come across. Not sure why, maybe it's the totally smooth tracks of today coupled with steering wheel shifting.

- Michael

[Gemini]

Originally posted by MichaelJP




We all know the g-forces on the drivers of today are bigger than ever before, but it just doesn't come across. Not sure why, maybe it's the totally smooth tracks of today coupled with steering wheel shifting.

- Michael

Today on-board shots are just not that spectular beause the camera' lenses are so perfectly stabilized.. It doesn't show how much vibration goes through the car and drivers body. Also the wide angle of the lenses takes the speed sensation off, especially on newly designed circuits, where tarmac is wide and all trackside objects far away.

The best shots these days are from the cameras mounted on the side of the airbox, which are on the level of drivers eaysight, but that very of them...

[MichaelJP]

Originally posted by Gemini

Today on-board shots are just not that spectular beause the camera' lenses are so perfectly stabilized.. It doesn't show how much vibration goes through the car and drivers body. Also the wide angle of the lenses takes the speed sensation off, especially on newly designed circuits, where tarmac is wide and all trackside objects far away.

The best shots these days are from the cameras mounted on the side of the airbox, which are on the level of drivers eaysight, but that very of them...

I like the in-helmet cams you sometimes see in the indy/champ car broadcasts. F1 just doesn't seem to innovate with its TV broadcasts. Not sure why as they desperately need to improve the show.

- Michael

[Henri Greuter]

Originally posted by 911
What's amazing is that he "could" have won this event another two times in 1984 & 1988, and this would have given him 8 wins at Monaco.

He "could" also have lost two more races: If the near notorious Jinx on Williams and Renault at Monaco had not prevailed yet again in both '92 and '93. So I guess that makes the balance about even.

Henri Greuter

[Sith]

Originally posted by MPJay
It's a good clip, but i like the Suzuka pole lap clip better, its a common clip often seen online. The way the car wants to swap ends under braking for Casio Triangle as he's steering one handed and downshifting, manual gearbox! is amazing.

The on board footage from Suzuka is during the race, he was frantically trying to chase down Prost who was 7 seconds up the road! Makes you wonder how fast Prost must've been going!!

[ivanalesi]

do we have any turbo era Senna on board laps?

[Sith]

Originally posted by ivanalesi
do we have any turbo era Senna on board laps?

I've got Q91 from Adelaide, the on board laps with Senna are as good as Monaco, you really get the feel esp with the engine note being so prodominent and the camera shaking on down change.

[derstatic]

Great stuff! The car in this video definately has an H gearbox, it can be seen quite clearly after the chicane and going into tabac. In 1989 Senna got pp ahead of his teammate Alain Prost with over 1 second. So i'd imagine thats why poor Alain looks so devastated at the end of the clip.

[MPJay]

I've seena few turbo onboards with Senna, the Camel Lotus at Monaco for one, not a full lap alas.

[I_hate_chicanes]

Amazing clip! I remember watching it 5 times in a row, when I first saw it a couple of years back. Just goes to show what we miss in F1 nowadays.

For all those looking for more Senna onboards, this site has a great collection.

[911]

Originally posted by Sith


The on board footage from Suzuka is during the race, he was frantically trying to chase down Prost who was 7 seconds up the road! Makes you wonder how fast Prost must've been going!!

Actually, the clip he is referring to is Senna's qualifying lap. It shows the entire lap and it was the one that put him on pole. What's nice about it, too, is that as soon as he finished the lap you could see that he was pleased with it.

[911]

Originally posted by Henri Greuter



He "could" also have lost two more races: If the near notorious Jinx on Williams and Renault at Monaco had not prevailed yet again in both '92 and '93. So I guess that makes the balance about even.

Henri Greuter

Yes, Senna did win those races in unlucky circumstances for Williams. I have to admit, though, that Senna's last laps in the '92 race were unbelievable. There's no way he should have won that one. Mansell was way quicker than him, and if it were on a different circuit (i.e. one where there were more passing zones) then Nigel would have won easily.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Oh man i would LOVE onboard shots with helmet camera's. They would show the real sensation of speed, bumps and other sensations that the driver has to endure and would make for real authentic viewing. Mr Eccelstone, if you're reading this, there's an idea for you mate!!

At the time Jackie Stewart was covering this race for ABC sports in the States. He said that this "hold up" cost Senna a second on that pole position lap. If that were the case, then Prost would have had a very sour look on his face!

Oh man, that would have been a MASSIVE pride blow.