65 replies to this topic

[ian senior]

Yes him, big bloke with a beard, Sir Lancelot Spratt and all that.

Looking back at a copy of Autocar from 1965, the sometimes snooty motorsport column "The Sport" records that James R-J sent a message of congratulation to Jim Clark on his securing the world championship. All very nice, but it goes on to say that Mr Robertson J was a member of the BRDC. Any idea what he had done to be elevated to that particular honour?

[Kpy]

Big Scots chap. Happened to have been to the same school as I was subjected to. So I remember him turning up there every now and again in a gull-wing 300 SL Mercedes in the '50s. Us boys thought him a show-off for that. He was certainly a car buff.
I'm sure he never raced, but he appeared in a film called Checkpoint, in 1956 (as a less than honest team manager, which was loosely about a Mille Miglia type closed road race in Italy, with Anthony Steel and Michael Medwin (who was also in Frankenheimer's Grand Prix about 10 years later). Maybe it was the film connection which gained him BRDC membership.
I know he died bankrupt, but don't think it was through contact with BCE.

[Vitesse2]

He had some connection with Whitney Straight - in Rivers Fletcher's "Mostly Motor Racing" (page 176) there is a picture of Straight's car in the Brooklands Paddock at the 1933 International Trophy, with Dudley Froy and a much slimmer (but already bearded) James Robertson Justice in attendance.

[ian senior]

I just "Googled", which I should have done before, and found a website about JRJ. It gave no mention of a motor racing career, although it did say that he liked fast cars. So do I, but I guess that wouldn't qualify me for membership of the BRDC. Perhaps they weren't so choosy in those days. All a bit strange.

[Mallory Dan]

I used to like his films, anyone remember "The Fast Lady" as well. I always thought he must have been well bred, and hence from a moneyed background, maybe just because of his accent. I gather he was a bit of an 'Actor', shall we say...

[D-Type]

He was also in The Fast Lady'

As far as I can recall, he played the father of the girl who was keen on cars, very similar to Sir Lancelot in the Doctor in the House series. The hero was a wimp who bought a Bentley to impress her and him, but couldn't drive. The action revolved about him getting involved in a car chase when on his driving test. He ended up getting the girl and a lifetime ban.

Edit: You must have posted at the same time as me Mallory Dan. So he was in the film - I'm not 100% sure of the plot (as if it mattered)

[Adam F]

According to the BRDC Yearbook for 1967 Justice was elected to the BRDC in 1933 (as JHN Robertson Justice), so I am assuming that he must have raced at Brooklands (or elsewhere) in about that year. Boddy's Brooklands history doesn't mention him however.

As I recall BRDC membership required you to finish in the first three in a certain level of race, but maybe there were other ways of gaining membership? As you say Ian, a bit strange.

[Eric McLoughlin]

The "star" of "The Fast Lady" (apart from the Bentley) was Stanley Baxter in a rare film appearance.

JRJ was very busy in the 50s and mainly played the same character types - i.e. loud, upper crust duffer whose bark was worse than his bite. He also appeared (in a similar role) as a BOAC Boeing Stratocruiser captain in "Out of the Clouds".

[VAR1016]

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
The "star" of "The Fast Lady" (apart from the Bentley) was Stanley Baxter in a rare film appearance.

JRJ was very busy in the 50s and mainly played the same character types - i.e. loud, upper crust duffer whose bark was worse than his bite. He also appeared (in a similar role) as a BOAC Boeing Stratocruiser captain in "Out of the Clouds".

Please don't forget the excellent Leslie Phillips as fast-talking car salesman Freddie Fox. And JRJ's daughter was the lovely Julie Christie...

For nostalgists the film includes some wonderful street shots from the home counties in the early '60s.

PdeRL

[Eric McLoughlin]

My favourite "screening" of "the Fast Lady" was when Ulster Television showed it one Sunday afternoon and got the reels mixed up. I thought the plot was a bit odd as I was watching it. They didn't apologise either. I expect they thought no one would notice.

[Macca]

'The Fast Lady' was mentioned in the celluloid thread recently, as it also featured brief back-projection shots of Graham Hill and John Surtees, a staged scene of the hero dreaming of his Bentley overtaking a bunch of F1's at Silverstone (including Tony Shelly's [!] Lotus 18/21), and a snippet of Gregory and Taylor in the 1962 International Trophy.


Paul

[David McKinney]

I seem to remember reading that JRJ did do some Brooklands racing in a small way
I suspect BRDC membership criteria might have been different in 1933 from what they became

[Paul Parker]

In reply to Kpy I don't remember Michael Medwin in Frankenheimer's 'Grand Prix' but I do recall that one of the driver's was played by Brian Bedford. The other stars of Betty E. Box's 'Checkpoint' were Anthony Steel and Stanley Baker who of course played the villain. Some of the action using Aston DB3Ss and the Lagonda V12 was shot on a sunny day at Goodwood and the film also featured real footage from the 1956 Mille Miglia showing Castellotti's winning Ferrari.

Additionally despite his upper crust image and the stereotypes he invariably portrayed on screen James Robertson Justice was I seem to recall a Labour Party supporter.

[TIPO61]

His dulcet tones also hearalded the beginning of the film 'the Guns of Navarone.'
Unmistakable pipes.
James Earl Jones-ish.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by David McKinney
I seem to remember reading that JRJ did do some Brooklands racing in a small way
I suspect BRDC membership criteria might have been different in 1933 from what they became

Sammy Davis says in his "Motor Racing" that there were "certain none too stringent essential qualifications" to become a member, but doesn't detail them, apart from noting that the majority of the committee should be active drivers.

The club had been formed in 1926 as an offshoot of the occasional dinners hosted by Dr Benjafield, spurred on by a suggestion by Ebblewhite during a speech at a dinner for Malcolm Campbell.

The first meetings were "naturally very difficult owing to a bad attack of temperament in all concerned, and a decidedly Bolshevistic attitude towards authority." Once Lord Howe took the helm, things calmed down a bit and the club managed to "restrain the wilder elements of its own membership, hitherto entirely out of control."

[D-Type]

This being TNF, I have to ask "What model of Bentley was the Fast Lady?" The answer is out there somewhere because one of the classic car magazines did a feature on the car.

Somehow I don't think "a bad attack of temperament in all concerned, and a decidedly Bolshevistic attitude towards authority." could be applied to JYS.

[Eric McLoughlin]

I wish more bodies exhibited such characteristics these days.

[Kpy]

Originally posted by D-Type
This being TNF, I have to ask "What model of Bentley was the Fast Lady?"

The fast lady was a 1927 (3 litre, I think) Bentley reg TU 5987. The film also featured a 1957 Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud I - 200 DYO and a 1954 Bentley R-Type Continental - TMA 376. The baddies drove a Jaguar Mk VII (don't have the reg. number).

[Gary Davies]

Ah, The Fast Lady. Such fond memories. Filmed at Beaconsfield Studios and around where I lived at the time in the Beaconsfield/Penn/Chalfont area. I recognised, as I recall, just about all the scenes, including that part of the car chase where they travelled through the centre of Beaconsfield down Station Road and left into Maxwell Road. I was 13 at the time and I think my bike and I spent about the whole of that summer exploring the locations where it was filmed.

Macca's recollection of the Silverstone sequence. Fascinating, and wasn't just it so hokey, with the crude technology available then, not to mention the presumably small budget available.

I also remember Kathleen Harrison, wonderful as Murdoch Troon's and Freddie Fox's landlady, Eric Barker as the grumpy driving examiner, dear Deryck Guyler playing, I think, a doctor and Terence Alexander, slightly miscast but wonderful to see as a motorbike cop.

Wonderful stuff ...

[Kpy]

Originally posted by Paul Parker
In reply to Kpy I don't remember Michael Medwin in Frankenheimer's 'Grand Prix' but I do recall that one of the driver's was played by Brian Bedford.

Quite so. I was wrong. Quite a fun film (Checkpoint) though!!

[Ian Stewart]

Originally posted by Adam F

As I recall BRDC membership required you to finish in the first three in a certain level of race, but maybe there were other ways of gaining membership? As you say Ian, a bit strange.

I don't think this applied circa 1933, and it looks as if membership was rather an informal affair in the early years.

According to John Eason Gibson there was considerable disquiet after the war, and steps were taken to tighten up the membership criteria in 1949, with a set formula which was clear enough to avoid misunderstanding.

[Gary Davies]

Originally posted by Ian Stewart
... According to John Eason Gibson there was considerable disquiet after the war, and steps were taken to tighten up the membership criteria in 1949, with a set formula which was clear enough to avoid misunderstanding.

Ha! Slightly OT, Mike Lawrence makes the observation - elsewhere on the web - that with 6 Formula 3 wins under his belt, Bernie was eligible to be invited to join the BRDC. Apparently, he never was.

[roger_valentine]

As so often happens, this thread is proving to be much more interesting that its title suggests, calling question the composition, and criteria for membership, of the BRDC.


"Until otherwise determined by the Committee membership of the Club shall be confined to gentlemen who have competed in an open motor road racing event or who have taken a first, second or third place award in a Brooklands Automobile Racing Club's Meeting or whom the Committee consider have proved their eligibility for membership by reason of their prowess, skill or interest in motor racing."

(from the Articles of Association of the BRDC Ltd, 14 July 1931)


Put italics anywhere you like in the above, but it would seem that being a "gentleman" and having an "interest" in moror racing might just be enough to get you in.

But, interestingly, a bye law passed on 7 Jan 1932 states that "All Members shall be subject to re-election annually". JHN Robertson Justice is not listed as a member in the 1947 BRDC yearbook, so if he was elected in 1933, his membership must have lapsed, yet it seems he was a member again by 1965.

Has anyone got a complete set of BRDC yearbooks which could shed further light on this? Is anyone here a current member and could tell us if and how the rules have changed?

[humphries]

Jimmy Justice, as apparently he was known by his racing chums, raced and sprinted a Frazer-Nash but only very occasionally. At Brooklands, 15 May 1932, a J.N.H.Justice entered the car for Roy Eccles, although it is not clear if Justice or Eccles drove it. The programme compiler might have got the initials wrong but what would you expect from an entry form filled in by a "member" of the medical profession!

Not long ago I read of Jimmy volunteering to rush off to Italy to pick up a car or some spare parts for a racing team to avert some crisis, back in the Fifties. Cannot for the life of me think where I read this or which team it was.

John

[humphries]

Make that date 16 May, 1932.

Also found another race appearance for J.N.H.Justice when he partnered a mysterious "H.H.Wanborough" driving a Wolseley Hornet, tuned by the veteran racing driver Hornsted, in the Junior Car Club 1000 mile race at Brooklands, 3 and 4 June, 1932. They retired after completing 397 miles.

This race was won on handicap by Elsie Wisdom and Joan Richmond; I wonder what Sir Lancelot would have thought of that.

John

[VAR1016]

Originally posted by Kpy


The fast lady was a 1927 (3 litre, I think) Bentley reg TU 5987. The film also featured a 1957 Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud I - 200 DYO and a 1954 Bentley R-Type Continental - TMA 376. The baddies drove a Jaguar Mk VII (don't have the reg. number).

Yes the Bentley looked likea 3-litre but in fact had a four-and-a-half-litre engine, so when Juilie Christie mentions "twin slopers" she is quite incorrect... I recall a feature on the film in Veteran and Vintage magazine at the time and in those days I had a memory!

PdeRL

[Adam F]

Roger,

The only (post war) BRDC yearbooks with membership lists, which I know of, and which are/were available to "the general public" are :-

1947 in Motor Racing 1947
1949 in Motor Racing 1948/9
1952 in BRDC Silver Jubilee book
1967 in BRDC Year Book
1977 in BRDC Golden Jubilee book
1987 in BRDC Diamond Jubillee book Pole Position
The last 4 were all published on significant anniversaries of the club's founding in 1927.

There was also a lavish book produced in 1998 called "Silverstone - Fifty Golden Years" (on the 50th anniversary of the circuit opening) but this didn't include a membership list.

I also have a brief 1938 BRDC Year Book

Justice is listed as follows :-

1938 Justice, J.N.H.R.
1947 not listed
1949 not listed
1952 Justice, James Robertson
1967 Justice, J.H.N. Robertson Elected 1933

He died in 1975
I've no idea why he omitted from the 1947 and 1949 lists.

He is also listed in the Motor racing Directories for 1955-56 and 1957.
Here his short entry includes "BRDC member. Retired from competition motoring in 1934"

[VAR1016]

Originally posted by Vanwall
Ah, The Fast Lady. Such fond memories. Filmed at Beaconsfield Studios and around where I lived at the time in the Beaconsfield/Penn/Chalfont area. I recognised, as I recall, just about all the scenes, including that part of the car chase where they travelled through the centre of Beaconsfield down Station Road and left into Maxwell Road. I was 13 at the time and I think my bike and I spent about the whole of that summer exploring the locations where it was filmed.

Macca's recollection of the Silverstone sequence. Fascinating, and wasn't just it so hokey, with the crude technology available then, not to mention the presumably small budget available.

I also remember Kathleen Harrison, wonderful as Murdoch Troon's and Freddie Fox's landlady, Eric Barker as the grumpy driving examiner, dear Deryck Guyler playing, I think, a doctor and Terence Alexander, slightly miscast but wonderful to see as a motorbike cop.

Wonderful stuff ...

Thanks for the recollections Vanwall, but your casting was not quite correct.

Eric Barker was the incredibly neurotic driving instructor who ate toffees all the time. The driving examiner was played by that chap with a ginger moustache who appeared in so many films but whose name escapes me. And was it really Mrs Dan Archer who played the landlady? I would have sworn that it was Irene Handl, but I could be confusing the film with Tony Hancock's "The Rebel".

I think that Derek Guyler played a police constable - I used to love him in "The Men from the Ministry" on Radio 4 thirty years ago.


PdeRL

[VAR1016]

Originally posted by Paul Parker
...and the film also featured real footage from the 1956 Mille Miglia showing Castellotti's winning Ferrari...

I would love to see that; In my opinion, that was Castellotti's greatest drive and indeed one of the all-time great drives.

PdeRL

[RTH]

Originally posted by Kpy


The fast lady was a 1927 (3 litre, I think) Bentley reg TU 5987. The film also featured a 1957 Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud I - 200 DYO and a 1954 Bentley R-Type Continental - TMA 376. The baddies drove a Jaguar Mk VII (don't have the reg. number).

In the film JRJ's character owned the "Alba Motors" sportscar manufacturing company and yes it was Kathleen Harrison and no she was not "Doris Archer " either she was also in the radio series "Meet the Huggets"

Irene Handel was in "The Rebel " and in "The Italian Job " (THE REAL ONE -not the recent appalling remake )

'The Fast Lady' was a wonderful film just full of star actors.

[Rob29]

Originally posted by VAR1016


I would love to see that; In my opinion, that was Castellotti's greatest drive and indeed one of the all-time great drives.

PdeRL

Also intermixed is footage of Nurburgring 100km race of the same year.

[Paul Parker]

Thank you Rob29, I certainly missed the 'Ring 1000km footage, next time I must pay more attention. There was also some real pre-race scrooting in the piazza shown in Checkpoint, plus I believe that the racing car being built by the star in the film (Anthony Steel) was an early wire wheeled Lotus (9?).

[Mike Lawrence]

I recall an article about Whitney Straight published, I believe, in Sports Cars Illustrated (UK version) in about 1959 which said that James Robertson Justice no hyphen) was Straight's team manager. In his early years JRJ was a journalist.

Bill Boddy's history of Brooklands is not exhaustive. There were events at Brooklands which were the equivalent of a Saturday Silverstone 'Clubbie', very low-key and consisting of events such as time trials. They seem to have been run to give novices some experience of the track. I guess that it is possible that JRJ took part in such events and, in the early days of the BRDC, that might have been enough for a personable young man to have to been elected.

Appearing as themselves in 'The Fast Lady' were Raymond Baxter, John Bolster, Graham Hill and John Surtees.

'Checkpoint' was a gem of back-projection. At '150 mph' the cotton overalls of the drivers did not rustle.

[Alan Cox]

Roy Salvadori, who was involved with the driving for the film "Checkpoint", recalls that Anthony Steel was fond of a tipple and, while under the influence one day while filming on the Ponte Vecchio, mumbled his words. This led to an altercation with director Ralph Thomas - who was a friend of David Brown - which almost ended in a punch-up. Steel was sacked but reinstated after he apologised. Apparently Salvadori was given a rollicking by John Wyer for letting co-star Odile Versois drive one of the ex-Le Mans V12 Lagondas on the open road, after Wyer had briefed his drivers (who included Cliff Davis, Roy Parnell (Reg's brother), John Coombs and John Young) not to allow anyone other than them to drive the cars.

Apparently Roy Parnell lost one of the Lagondas on a mountain pass and ran over the continuity girl, who was quite badly hurt. He had to be flown out of the country, post haste, to avoid arrest by Italian police.

The Lagonda which was wrecked at the end of the film was a fibreglass replica, and the opening scenes of breaking into the Italian car factory were shot at the Fairthorpe works near Pinewood Studios.

[Criceto]

Regarding Humphries' note about JRJ's racing career, I have Roy Eccles as a retirement from the Whitsun Nottingham Junior Mountain Handicap on May 16 1932 on the Frazer Nash. Source was the following week's Autocar.

As yet, I've no record of James Robertson-Justice competing in anything but the JCC 1000 the following month.

[Ian Stewart]

Originally posted by roger_valentine
Is anyone here a current member and could tell us if and how the rules have changed?

Difficult - my BRDC files run to well over a thousand sheets of paper, largely thanks to Messrs. Walkinshaw and Ecclestone, and of course Miss Foulston. I'll certainly have a look, but I'm not optimistic.

I have a fair chance of finding the 1949 criteria, and also a fairly recent revision, but the half century in between might be a little more taxing! I'll give it a go nevertheless.

[Mallory Dan]

Originally posted by VAR1016


Thanks for the recollections Vanwall, but your casting was not quite correct.

Eric Barker was the incredibly neurotic driving instructor who ate toffees all the time. The driving examiner was played by that chap with a ginger moustache who appeared in so many films but whose name escapes me. And was it really Mrs Dan Archer who played the landlady? I would have sworn that it was Irene Handl, but I could be confusing the film with Tony Hancock's "The Rebel".

I think that Derek Guyler played a police constable - I used to love him in "The Men from the Ministry" on Radio 4 thirty years ago.


PdeRL

I also recall The Fast Lady with great affection, don't think Leslie Phillips was ever better than this. Was the Examiner Allan Cuthbertson (or similar), yet another great British character actor of the time. I've always wondered where it was shot, amazing that I finally find out on TNF ! I guess some of the other films of the time, especially the Carry Ons were shot in the same areas.

[Alan Cox]

Indeed Allan Cuthbertson played Bodley, the examiner. Deryck Guyler played Dr Blake and Clive Dunn played "man in burning house". Bernard Cribbins appeared as "man on stretcher" and Frankie Howard "road wokman in hole"!

Details come courtesy of the Internet Movie Database, an excellent site covering just about every film you have ever heard of with full cast and crew listings, plot summary and also a keyword search to enable you to find which film a quote came from. Highly recommended.

http://uk.imdb.com

[Roger Clark]

Autosport 29th March 1957

[Doug Nye]

Jimmy Justice as he was known pre-war was apparently a Bromley-born Scot who became a chum of Whitney Straight's when the American zillionaire was up at Cambridge. According to DSJ's book on 'Maserati 3011' Jimmy Justice went to Italy on Straight's behalf to collect 8CM number '3011' - the first of the Maserati GP cars ordered for the 1933 Straight team. Team mechanic 'Lofty' England certainly knew and remembered him well.

Justice was apparently pretty active as a Champagne socialist, he fought with the International brigade during the Spanish Civil War and at the same time developed a lifelong interest in wildlife and ornithology in particular. He served in the Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve during the second world war and postwar became one of the founding fathers of the UK Wildfowl Trust in cahoots with his more famous naturalist friend and fellow wartime RNVR officer (later Sir) Peter Scott.

Justice was quite a familiar sight as an enthusiastic celebrity spectator at BRDC Silverstone meetings through the 1950s and '60s. He enjoyed the high life and as his movie career crumbled he - sadly - died apparently bankrupt in 1975...his 70th year.

DCN

[D-Type]

Originally posted by Mallory Dan


I also recall The Fast Lady with great affection, don't think Leslie Phillips was ever better than this. Was the Examiner Allan Cuthbertson (or similar), yet another great British character actor of the time. I've always wondered where it was shot, amazing that I finally find out on TNF ! I guess some of the other films of the time, especially the Carry Ons were shot in the same areas .

Possibly, but when they filmed Carry on Camel or maybe it was Carry on Cleo they filmed 'on location' at Camber Sands, near Harry Weslakes*. They hit a technical problem though - the camel had been hired from a zoo somewhere and had never seen sand. It was totally bemused by it and refused to walk on the strange stuff.


*Token motor racing reference to justify the posting

[D-Type]

Slightly less OT, in World Sports Car Championship when talking about the 1956 Mille Miglia, Cyril Posthumus says

No Jaguars or David Brown entries competed this year, but ironically, two of the Le Mans 4 1/2 litre 12-cylinder Lagondas, which would have made worthy mille Miglia contestants, were out in Italy for filming purposes, complete with team manager; John Wyer; a waste of talent which many Britons deplored

Presumably the film was Checkpoint.

And Doug, my apologies, I should have acknowledged your valuable contribution before rabbiting on about camels.

[Ian Stewart]

Originally posted by roger_valentine

Is anyone here a current member and could tell us if and how the rules have changed?

Roger, I'm sorry but the only reference I could find applied to 2001. The criteria in 1949 were clear but less stringent, and in Brooklands days I imagine participation (and survival) were sufficient.

Due to scanning difficulties this is a filetted extract from the Articles of Association, and the part which refers to Associate Membership had to be omitted (eligibility was confined to those who had "made an exceptional contribution to British Motor Sport over a considerable period of time").

Needless to say there was no guarantee that the Board would accept every driver's application, but the point which is so often misunderstood by critics is this: Membership is not 'by invitation'. It is at the request of the proposer and seconder, on behalf of the applicant, and the final decision rests with the Board's assessment of the driver's eligibility.

[Doug Nye]

There is a current proposal that BRDC membership should be extended to drivers of Historic category cars. Since the achievement of consistent International success at Historic level is so heavily dependent upon factors other than genuine driving ability there is considerable opposition to this proposal from full members who had to earn their election the hard way...

DCN (I'm a kind of fraudulent BRDC associate member, by invitation of the board - but really quite ridiculously proud of it, at least I was for the first couple of years or so, until the umbala hit the rotating aerodynamic device... )

[Gary Davies]

Originally posted by Mike Lawrence
Appearing as themselves in 'The Fast Lady' were Raymond Baxter, John Bolster, Graham Hill and John Surtees.

Yes of course, I remember their appearances now you mention it. Presumably, this was where NGH obtained the all important experience that equipped him to put in his brilliant cameo performance in Mr. Frankenheimer's film four years later.

[RTH]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
There is a current proposal that BRDC membership should be extended to drivers of Historic category cars. Since the achievement of consistent International success at Historic level is so heavily dependent upon factors other than genuine driving ability there is considerable opposition to this proposal from full members who had to earn their election the hard way...

DCN (I'm a kind of fraudulent BRDC associate member, by invitation of the board - but really quite ridiculously proud of it, at least I was for the first couple of years or so, until the umbala hit the rotating aerodynamic device... )

There is at least a theoretical financial value to being a BRDC member as well .
A few years ago when there was some talk of Silverstone being sold and a vote was required and each member stood to gain , they were told at the time a sum of money approaching six figures for their share. In the end the priviledges were too hard to give up and in any case most BRDC members are already millionaires anyway !

[Doug Nye]

...absolutely true, of course......apart from the fact that the figure is incorrect and the benefit would only have applied to full members, the orficer class, not to us poor bloody infantry....

[RTH]

Higher or lower Doug ?

[Alan Cox]

Doug, is it not the case that you can already qualify for BRDC membership through historic racing - Martin Stretton and Robert Brooks come to mind as two who have done so in recent times?

Also, Richard, a bit glib to say all members are already millionaires (I realise a somewhat "tongue in cheek" comment) because there are numerous humble racers who have satisfied the membership criteria with success in widely varying categories of racing.

[RTH]

Yes Alan I didn't really mean all - but a lot of them already have so much that losing the free access to all parts of Silverstone etc was much more important to them than money.