38 replies to this topic

[ViMaMo]

Has anyone a opinion on what is the best used car to buy under $10,000 ?

Added: Sedan. Mostly to be used in and around New Jersey.

Thanks

[Lazarus II]

Originally posted by vivian
Has anyone a opinion on what is the best used car to buy under $10,000 ?

Depends where you live I suppose?
California doesn't require the same vehicle as say Alaska or the UK.

[Lotus23]

I agree with Lazarus that your location factors into the answer.

Having said that, my #1 recommendation would be to cough up a few bucks for an online subscription to Consumer Reports and stick with their automotive advice.

I've been driving used cars for 50 years now, and am convinced that going with a Japanese brand is a pretty safe bet. I personally prefer Nissan, but have had good luck with Toyota, Mazda and Honda.

You should be able to find something quite reliable for under $10K.

[FrankB]

Originally posted by vivian
Has anyone a opinion on what is the best used car to buy under $10,000 ?

Too many variables to answer - as has already been pointed out - your location can make a lot of difference - not just because of climate and road surface variations but also because of how much car you get to the dollar. Just compare new car prices within Europe (let alone comparing trans-Atlantic prices) and you will see that there are huge variations in price for more or less the same model of car.

Then you have got the question of what you want to use the car for. The best car for taking Mum, Dad, Granny and three kids to the beach for the weekend would not be the same car that would be best for a single guy trying to impress the girls.

[desmo]

IMO a wonderful used sedan can be easily gotten for under $10K if impressing friends and neighbors isn't a concern. I'd just find a Japanese sedan from your favorite of the large manufacturers that has recently been through its major 55-60K mile major factory service and has all service records. The year of manufacture is relatively unimportant.

A well cared for example at that mileage will be IMO functionally virtually equivalent to a new car, in some respects better as any teething problems will have been sorted. Good luck.

[tedmna]

If you're not concerned about maintenance costs, and don't need a sedan, a Porsche 944 and it's offspring.;) But since you are, a used Honda or Toyota--although they're residual value is high. Possibly a used Buick--but if you're under 65, maybe not . . .

[armchair expert]

Porsche 944.
I have a baby seat in the back and can take my three daughters in it, with enough luggage for a weekend away, no problems.
And more fun than a sedan!

[Todd]

Originally posted by armchair expert
Porsche 944.
I have a baby seat in the back and can take my three daughters in it, with enough luggage for a weekend away, no problems.
And more fun than a sedan!

My mother had a 924S until rececntly, and baby seats in the back would have been redundant. The seats were already miniature. They are great cars, but the cost of doing the timing and balance shaft belts and refreshing the perishable engine mounts may be a big cross to bare for someone looking for basic transportation.

[McGuire]

In used cars it often pays to think outside the box a bit.

For example: Hondas are very nice products indeed, but I consider them a relatively poor value for used car purchase because their resale values are so high. Great deal for the seller, not so good for the buyer.

If you are going to keep this car for several years or pile on the miles, you don't need to care about resale value. So deliberately pick a car with a depressed resale value and make the market work for you. For instance -- if you like the Honda Accord, take a look at the Mazda 626: for the same year, mileage, and equipment you can have 90% of the car for about 60% of the money. In all the categories you can find similar bargains if you study the price guides and the market.

True, in some cases prices are depressed because the cars are turkeys or lemons, but usually the car is simply not in hot demand like the category's leader, which will tend to hold prices down. This is a great time to be buying a used car because the market is very heavy on inventory, especially in your price range.

American cars are great used car values right now as well. You can pick up a four year old GM intermediate-sized sedan with good miles for $10K or less. They are not particularly exciting but they are practically bulletproof, especially with the 3800 V6. In terms of the miles you can put on these cars and the cost per mile to maintain them, that's practically driving for free.

[McGuire]

When buying used for daily use as your only car, avoid BMW, Porsche, Benz, Audi, Lexus, Acura, etc. etc in this price range. You are paying the luxury-car premium and for the prestige of the name and in the $10,000 category, that's about all that will be left of the car. The year, miles and condition will be way out of whack compared to what you can buy with the same money further down market.

There is no reason why for less than $10K you can't buy a nicely-equipped, clean, up-to-date looking car you won't be ashamed to be seen in...and you can easily get another five years and 100,000 miles out of it with minimal maintenance costs. The biggest hazard in used-car shopping: delusions of grandeur.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by desmo


A well cared for example at that mileage will be IMO functionally virtually equivalent to a new car, in some respects better as any teething problems will have been sorted. Good luck.

I agree with you 120%. While I'm glad they do for they pay my salary, I have no idea why people buy new cars. The "functional equivalence" there is throwing thousands of dollars down the storm drain.

[Big Block 8]

Originally posted by McGuire

I agree with you 120%. While I'm glad they do for they pay my salary, I have no idea why people buy new cars. The "functional equivalence" there is throwing thousands of dollars down the storm drain.

Count me in too. Although my salary comes from elsewhere, I'm glad that people buy new cars - as if they didn't, soon I wouldn't have any used cars to buy on a bargain price!

I think it's mostly down to image/prestige, just like with the badge. Warranties are another thing, but anyone should know that the amount of money you save buying used, will cover a lot of hiccups. Plus the respectable dealers usually have a warranty too.

[Viss1]

Originally posted by desmo
has all service records

That's the key, and the factor that trumps all else.

[JwS]

Service records are nice so at least you can see what has been done, they never tell the whole story but they are good to see (some dealers will supply them too, VW can give you all the dealer service done on one of theirs).
Don't trust things like Carfax too much, I did and only later determined that my car had been in a good sized accident that (at least) took the front suspension off of it (found lots of junkyard marks on parts) So a good inspection is still worth it!
Also if you buy used from a dealer make sure that the manufacturer is giving you the warrantee, my car was 'certified',... by the dealer I found out when I called Subaru NA! So the crappy dealer who sold me the car were the only ones who would do warrantee work, not a good situation when they have to pay for the work themselves! . (Man were they pissed when I talked to Subaru NA though, hehehe)
Anyway, still buyer beware, I never had so many problems with privately bought cars...
JwS

[hydra]

Might I suggest a nice mercedes (W107) 450SL/SLC?
good for impressing the neighbors
reliable
sexy
comfortable
and powerful


downsides are expensive parts (well by used car standards) and rather abysmal fuel economy (10-20mpg)

otherwise might I suggest a W126 560SEC coupe?

[BRIAN GLOVER]

This is the best advice yet. You can even get a Buick Regal with a supercharger. A little old lady probably owned it too. No rubber timing belt or all those cams and valves and things to worry about and the car is good for 200 to 250 thousand miles. The transaxle is bullit proof and the axle shafts are cheap. There are millions of GM cars built with this fine unit and junk yard spares insure years of cheap motoring. The air may be expensive to repair, but thats all.
Find some nice 22" wheels for it, paint it purple and install a killer stereo. The babes will flock toward you.
I bought a brand new 2 door Chevy Metro 3 or 4 years ago and I use it most everyday. 3 cylinders gives me 35MPG downtown with ice cold air and a auto. I changed all 4 tires for $120 fitted and balanced and have changed the oil twice in nearly 40 thousand miles. It has a huge hatch back. It is not sluggish either. My daily cars have always been Chevy pick 'em ups but after driving a Peugeot 206 overseas, I thought something this size would be very handy and indeed it is.
I avoid highways and it basically used as a beach car or shopping cart.
Check out the Metro replacement, the Aveo, at your local Chevy dealer. A loaded one is less than $10 000 out the door with tax and title with a 4 year guarantee.

Hey McGuire, is that your article published in Autoweek?

Originally posted by McGuire
[
American cars are great used car values right now as well. You can pick up a four year old GM intermediate-sized sedan with good miles for $10K or less. They are not particularly exciting but they are practically bulletproof, especially with the 3800 V6. In terms of the miles you can put on these cars and the cost per mile to maintain them, that's practically driving for free. [/B]

[TIPO61]

Find a well maintained BMW.
ENJOY the drive.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by BRIAN GLOVER
This is the best advice yet. You can even get a Buick Regal with a supercharger. A little old lady probably owned it too. No rubber timing belt or all those cams and valves and things to worry about and the car is good for 200 to 250 thousand miles. The transaxle is bullit proof and the axle shafts are cheap. There are millions of GM cars built with this fine unit and junk yard spares insure years of cheap motoring. The air may be expensive to repair, but thats all.
Find some nice 22" wheels for it, paint it purple and install a killer stereo. The babes will flock toward you.

That's my thinking toward the whole used car thing. You can ride nearly for free if your tastes are not too snotty. (If I were a young dude starting a family or building a business, fancy & expensive cars are the last place I would put my hard-earned $$$. I love cars, but except for the cream of the vintage market they are not an investment in any sense of the term.)

Another wrinkle along these same lines: if you like the Toyota Corolla, take a look at the Chevrolet Prizm. Used car dealers can't give the Prizm away, while the Corolla is hot mover at retail-plus prices because it's a "Toyota." They are the same car out of the same plant, different badges. If we are going to keep the car and drive it into the ground anyway, what do we care about resale value?

[McGuire]

Originally posted by BRIAN GLOVER
Hey McGuire, is that your article published in Autoweek?

Which article was that?

[McGuire]

Originally posted by TIPO61
Find a well maintained BMW.
ENJOY the drive.

In the current US market, $10K will get you an eight year-old 3-series with 100,000+ miles beaten into it by some hapless yuppie. If you must have a Beemer I suppose that's the way to go, and you will probably be happy with it.

[BRIAN GLOVER]

One rotor for the BMW costs more than all 4 rotors for my Vette. Oh yeah, better keep a bicycle in the trunk while you are about it. We're talking cheap motoring, aren't we?

Originally posted by McGuire


In the current US market, $10K will get you an eight year-old 3-series with 100,000+ miles beaten into it by some hapless yuppie. If you must have a Beemer I suppose that's the way to go, and you will probably be happy with it.

"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily." --George Washington

[BRIAN GLOVER]

November 1, Escape Roads, Autoweek, page29. Story about a 1904 Elmore Runabout built in Clyde and not Elmore Ohio. The car is located in the Harris-Elmore public library. It was originally in the Henry Ford museum in Michigan.
The article is not only written by your name's sake, but the design of the car could also be one of yours with the magestic simplicity of the now world famous 'Propster".
The Becker Brothers avoided one major source of trouble for automobiles built at that time by-parts failure- by simply eliminating most of them.
The one cylinder, two cycle engine produced 8hp at 800 rpm with a 'Jump Spark' ignition.
The carburetor came with only one instuction:"Leave it Alone". A 2 speed planetary transmission connected to a Brown-Lipe No.8 differential and that was the drive train. The frame was one length of angle stock bent in a hickory mandrel to form a rectangle, supporting 36" semi-elliptical springs and 12 spoke 28" artillery wheels at a cost of $850 to the consumer. It weighs 1200 lbs and could do an honest 20mph.
Billy Durant, always vigulant about emerging new technologies, bought the company in 1909 and GM ceased production of the car in 1912 as the two stroke was not to be the wave of the future.
The commercial trucks were assembled under the names Krebs and Clydesdale, and were built for a few more years in the former Elmore factory, which is today the site of a Whirlpool appliance plant.

Perhaps our friend can offer $10 000 for it.

Originally posted by McGuire


Which article was that?

"Society's demands for moral authority and character increase as the importance of the position increases." --John Adams

[TheGoalie]

Well I do not know the US eqivelent but being in the Auto bisiness I would say that if you are looking for a four door with good power and well equiped the Chrysler Sebring is an excellent value in a used vehicle. With the 7 year warranty and the powerfull 2.7L V-6 you should be able to get a low milage, under 10K, year old one for under $10K.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by BRIAN GLOVER
November 1, Escape Roads, Autoweek, page29. Story about a 1904 Elmore Runabout built in Clyde and not Elmore Ohio. The car is located in the Harris-Elmore public library. It was originally in the Henry Ford museum in Michigan.
The article is not only written by your name's sake, but the design of the car could also be one of yours with the magestic simplicity of the now world famous 'Propster".
The Becker Brothers avoided one major source of trouble for automobiles built at that time by-parts failure- by simply eliminating most of them.
The one cylinder, two cycle engine produced 8hp at 800 rpm with a 'Jump Spark' ignition.
The carburetor came with only one instuction:"Leave it Alone". A 2 speed planetary transmission connected to a Brown-Lipe No.8 differential and that was the drive train. The frame was one length of angle stock bent in a hickory mandrel to form a rectangle, supporting 36" semi-elliptical springs and 12 spoke 28" artillery wheels at a cost of $850 to the consumer. It weighs 1200 lbs and could do an honest 20mph.
Billy Durant, always vigulant about emerging new technologies, bought the company in 1909 and GM ceased production of the car in 1912 as the two stroke was not to be the wave of the future.
The commercial trucks were assembled under the names Krebs and Clydesdale, and were built for a few more years in the former Elmore factory, which is today the site of a Whirlpool appliance plant.

No offense, but your writer friend sounds like a real crackpot. If AutoWeek (note the uppercase W) is now forced to run copy of that caliber, a once-proud publication is in serious decline. Speaking of Propsters and crackpots, I miss Franklin immensely. I believe I may have stumbled across an ancestor of his:

[desmo]

That thing would actually have a purposefulness that it lacks if they'd have gone envelope body and faired in the wheels.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by desmo
That thing would actually have a purposefulness that it lacks if they'd have gone envelope body and faired in the wheels.

Yes, that would have reduced the aerodynamic drag immensely.

The car's official name is "Shirley Lois the Moon Girl." It was built by two very interesting people, the Hungerford brothers of Chemung County, NY (not far from Watkins Glen) in the late 1920's. Along with the complete 4-cyl. Chevrolet drivetrain from its original chassis, there is also a fully functional rocket engine (gasoline fuel) out back. However, it has only one nozzle. The rest are fakes...err, "styling cues," as are the tops or flying sacuers mounted on the front of the roof.

This car is still in existence, by the way.

[Todd]

Originally posted by McGuire


In the current US market, $10K will get you an eight year-old 3-series with 100,000+ miles beaten into it by some hapless yuppie. If you must have a Beemer I suppose that's the way to go, and you will probably be happy with it.

Unfortunately, we never gained any more insight as to vivian's car market or desires, but an old BMW isn't always folly. $7K would buy the best 6-cyllinder E30 coupe or sedan extant. Chances are that it would have something well under 100K miles, and that timing belt changes and eventually a clutch would be the most expensive maintenance concerns. While a well chosen newer car can avoid even these expenses, depending on what you enjoy and whether or not you are blessed with a good local independent BMW shop, the BMW can provide an affordable way to enjoy a reasonably powerful car that has a chassis which rewards a keen driver far more than all but the newest and most cutting edge front drivers, like the Mini Cooper and perhaps the TSX.

It comes down to what you care about. In college, I had a Volkswagen Jetta that I'd bought for $4,350. It had 61,000 miles, and I considered the money well spent. By the time my girlfriend abreviated it 2 and a half years and 40,000 miles later, I'd replaced the heater core, an engine mount, the battery, the tires, the struts, and I'm sure some other things that I've forgotten. It never stranded me, and was equally suited to tearing along winding roads with the sunroof open and the tires sliding past every apex as it was sailing down the highway with the AC pumping and the miles passing by at 90 an hour and 30 a gallon. It towed my sailboat at similar speeds, and it had room for everything that I hauled back and forth between my college apartment and my parent's house, as well as for 4 people in reasonable comfort. When I was shopping for it, although actually shopping for a non-existent E-21 BMW in similar, which is to say very good shape, I also looked at a newer Corolla. I never found out how much the Corolla would have cost, but I did drive it. By the time I got it turned back towards the dealership, I had determined to buy the VW. While the VW provided tactile feedback and controls that reflected their use, the Toyota was an appliance. The gas pedal was practically a switch, with as much adjustability, heft, and travel as the floor mounted high-beam dimmer switch of a '71 Plymouth I'd had in high school. The dash and controls were just so much hard plastic, styled as much to resemble various geometric shapes as to facilitate driving. Perhaps the Toyota would have required nothing but tires in 40,000 miles, and perhaps the right buyer would have found this as important as I found being able to rotate the back of the Jetta by left foot braking in decreasing radius corners. The fact remains that every mile in the Toyota would have been a chore for me, and I felt amply rewarded for whatever expenses the Jetta required.

[McGuire]

Brian,
Since you are so damn curious about it, here is the 1904 Elmore engine:



One-cylinder bypass-port two-stroke engine to the left, flywheel in the center, two-band two-speed & reverse planetary transmission to the right. Between the flywheel and transmission is the drive sprocket to the differential (drive chain removed). The whole assembly resides under the seat -- it's mid-engined, eh. Take that, Mr. Cooper.

The brass can with the copper pipes at the very top of the foto is the engine oiler (one line to the cylinder; the other to the crank). The six-bolt plate directly underneath it is the bypass port access -- instead of a reed valve they used a simple piece of metal screen, a sort of flame arrestor to keep combustion from backing into the case.

You will note that an industrial-type water pump has been added, driven off the flywheel via flat belt. From the look of it and what I know of the car's history it was apparently added sometime in the 1970's, possibly for parade use -- the cooling system was originally thermo-syphon (that is, the coolant circulated through the engine to the radiator and back via convection, if any youngsters were wondering). The addition of a pump was totally unnecessary in my view...the modern mechanic must have been chasing a related problem causing overheating and this was a bandaid.

To me what is so clever about the Elmore is its utter simplicity. They didn't try to overreach their capabilities and stuck to what they knew damn sure would work. These things run very nice: when warm, you can start them with the spark lever, no cranking. Sweet.

This one, a Model 9, is a single. They also made a twin in 1904 (called the Pathfinder) which was simply two of these cylinder units joined together side-by-side. The Pathfinder could climb hills like a goat, or trees like a racoon, but perhaps the old folks were pulling my leg about the latter.

[ViMaMo]

Thanks for the insights. I was helping my friend out actually.

I chose a 2001 Nissan Altima with 25k miles on it. Bought it for $9,500. Has all the warranties still valid. Good gas mileage, smooth ride. The back looks okey-dokey but front end is fine. 150 bhp.

Buddy was interested in Toyota Celica, but the insurance is huge. Finally convinced himself he does not need a sportscar with high insurance.


One could buy a BMW or a Porsche, but isn't the insurance too costly? And also the parts and servicing?

[Lotus23]

Vivian, spot on!

Your friend spent his money wisely and will not be disappointed with this car.

[rosemeyer]

1994 Honda Civic body 240 HP acura interiga R engine 9000 rpm HKS coil over suspension 5 way adjustable struts 4 wheel brembo disk breaks headers, AEM cold aie intake ,balanced and blueprinted ported and polisched .178 BHP at the front wheels 10 LB aluminen flymen flywheel lowerd 1.5 inchens a great street ride. 5point simson 3 insch harness.

[desmo]

Rice, rice baby.

[Greg Locock]

Well, despite the fact that it makes the same horsepower as the cheapest car we make (185 kW), and we throw in a rear wheel drive, that's quite an interesting set of numbers.

Driveline efficiency is 74%

What a hot little gearbox!

[Statesidefan]

The Nissan Maxima/Infiniti I-30 from the late 90's can be had for as little as $6500.00 The V-6 is a jewel, ride is good, reliability is awesome and you can snag a 5 speed if you're lucky.

I had a 1997 Maxima and it was wonderful. Just purchased an I-30 with 87,000 miles, service records and fresh brakes, coolant, tires, and tune up. $7K. In lovely shape. Check them out. They'll smoke an equilvant Camry, 626, Avalon, or Galant. THe Honda will hang but you'll pay out the wazoo for a like car.

The Toyota Avalon is also a wonderful car. Roomy as hell, huge trunk and reliable as a claw hammer. Not a performer, but all in all a great family sedan.

[Statesidefan]

Damn. Forgot about the Altima. Great car also. You'll be pleased. Congrats on a wise choice.

[Mark Beckman]

Originally posted by Greg Locock
Well, despite the fact that it makes the same horsepower as the cheapest car we make (185 kW), and we throw in a rear wheel drive, that's quite an interesting set of numbers.

Driveline efficiency is 74%

What a hot little gearbox!

I know which one I would rather drive from Melbourne to Brisbane in.

A 10 pound flywheeled FWD with 240hp? - the words instant wheelspin in the wet comes to mind.

Rallied a 74 Civic for a bit (with EL 1800cc) never went light on the flywheel, I like to go forwards.

[ViMaMo]

One could also get Accords 99, 00, 01 for less than 10k with less than 50k miles. only thing their warranty lasts for only 3 years. but then its accord.

[arig]

Originally posted by Big Block 8


Count me in too. Although my salary comes from elsewhere, I'm glad that people buy new cars - as if they didn't, soon I wouldn't have any used cars to buy on a bargain price!

I think it's mostly down to image/prestige, just like with the badge. Warranties are another thing, but anyone should know that the amount of money you save buying used, will cover a lot of hiccups. Plus the respectable dealers usually have a warranty too.

i think there are certain cars that you do not want to buy used just b/c the quality of the car depends on the previous driver. however, i think my logic is only for off road vehicles or sport cars. i myself have an m3, that i bought used i might add, that i know was well maintained since i knew the previous owner. but i have heard horror stories from people who have bought the m3 used, where the clutch is practically gone after only 20k miles or the suspension is shot. some cars, which have the possibility and are more probable of being abused, will be abused.

also, some people just prefer to know that they were the 1st owner of a vehicle and they have enough to not care. i love those people as i used to work for infiniti selling new cars.

[Big Block 8]

Originally posted by arig

i think there are certain cars that you do not want to buy used just b/c the quality of the car depends on the previous driver. however, i think my logic is only for off road vehicles or sport cars. i myself have an m3, that i bought used i might add, that i know was well maintained since i knew the previous owner. but i have heard horror stories from people who have bought the m3 used, where the clutch is practically gone after only 20k miles or the suspension is shot. some cars, which have the possibility and are more probable of being abused, will be abused.

A lot of about vehicle's condition can be deduced from the ride quality, noise, emissions, visual inspection etc. Making a little research before purchase about the typical flaws of the model and finding out if they've been taken care of, helps too. Of course it requires experience, but there are certain tests you can have to be made to find it all out for you, if you're in doubt. Especially when investing a considerable amount of money, it's better to make the tests anyway to be sure. I've bought numerous cars (including sports cars) 2nd hand and no bombs so far.

Originally posted by arig

also, some people just prefer to know that they were the 1st owner of a vehicle and they have enough to not care. i love those people as i used to work for infiniti selling new cars.

That's right, there's actually very few "sensible" ways to spend cash, so the marketing guys invent all kinds of needs, if the old "make your neighbours envious" isn't enough. Just buy a bigger house with rooms you don't actually need, bigger/more cars (new of course) and change them more frequently. And after that, there's all kinds of junk to burn your money on. I recently saw a chess board in a jewelry store window - pieces looked like zinc, the board looked like plastic - and the price tag was $50,000!