19 replies to this topic

[Uxoros]

I'm wondering how Ferrari expect to be competitive with the F2004 with badged 2005 package. Is it possible to make such important changes (front wing, underbody, diffusor, rear wing) without building a completely new car ?

Note : Maybe my thread belongs to the technical forum. If so, it might be moved by moderators.

[w00t]

ferrari can afford it. Even if the car would be uncompetitive Michael Schumacher 7x World Champion makes it competitive.

[Enkei]

Originally posted by w00t
ferrari can afford it. Even if the car would be uncompetitive Michael Schumacher 7x World Champion makes it competitive.

Yeah, his chin is worth a good 50 HP

[Greg Locock]

Note : Maybe my thread belongs to the nuff-nuff forum. If so, it might be moved by moderators.

[Wuzak]

Maybe...

Ferrari did halt development on the F2004 to this year's regulations two or 3 months ago, basically to concentrate on the 2005 car.

As the 2005 regulations were in the air for some time, they also stopped development on that car.

Perhaps Ferrari used the past couple of months to develop 2005 regulation solutions for the F2004 using the logic that the proposed 2005 regulations wouldn't be changed much as the teams would never agree on an alternative.

Besides which, I think that many/most teams will arrive in Melbourne with developments of 2004 cars, debuting their definitive 2005 cars at the beginning of the European season

[mrman_3k]

Basically what is happening is they are using a hybrid F2004b that conforms to the 2005 regs but is not optimized for them. They are working on a proper F2005 which will come out after a few races in 2005.

They were well ahead in development of the F2005 but had to stop development several months back (remember when they said they stopped working on the F2004 - that's because they started on the F2005) due to reg changes and uncertainties. My friend was chatting with Rory Byrne a few weeks ago and he said they had the engine almost ready to go and it was a masterpiece, but it had to be scraped and they're starting over.

[Admiral Thrawn]

Originally posted by mrman_3k
Basically what is happening is they are using a hybrid F2004b that conforms to the 2005 regs but is not optimized for them. They are working on a proper F2005 which will come out after a few races in 2005.

They were well ahead in development of the F2005 but had to stop development several months back (remember when they said they stopped working on the F2004 - that's because they started on the F2005) due to reg changes and uncertainties. My friend was chatting with Rory Byrne a few weeks ago and he said they had the engine almost ready to go and it was a masterpiece, but it had to be scraped and they're starting over.

Much like how the F2002 was slowly introduced during the 2002 season, with the F2001 being used for the first few races.

[Tuxy]

Originally posted by mrman_3k
on the F2004 - that's because they started on the F2005) due to reg changes and uncertainties. My friend was chatting with Rory Byrne a few weeks ago and he said they had the engine almost ready to go and it was a masterpiece, but it had to be scraped and they're starting over.

Damn, that's a shame

[Todd]

Originally posted by Uxoros
I'm wondering how Ferrari expect to be competitive with the F2004 with badged 2005 package. Is it possible to make such important changes (front wing, underbody, diffusor, rear wing) without building a completely new car ?

Note : Maybe my thread belongs to the technical forum. If so, it might be moved by moderators.

F2004d doesn't need to be fully competitive. All it needs to do is be reliable and score some points. Meanwhile, Ferrari will work on making the F2005 a mature optimization of the new rules, and proving it's reliability prior to racing it. With points on the board from finishing races with the F2004d while the others are experiencing teething problems, and with the F2005 arriving as a total package of speed and reliability, they will be in fine championship shape by the end of the season, or when they clinch the championship, whichever comes first.

[desmo]

Originally posted by Greg Locock
Note : Maybe my thread belongs to the nuff-nuff forum. If so, it might be moved by moderators.

Quite right. Have you got a URL?

[Exar Kun]

Originally posted by mrman_3k
My friend was chatting with Rory Byrne a few weeks ago and he said they had the engine almost ready to go and it was a masterpiece, but it had to be scraped and they're starting over.

Seems odd that they would have to scrap the engine when it's been pretty much known for a long time (last year) that next year's engines would have to last 2 races. And nothing else directly affecting the engines has changed has it?

[HP]

Originally posted by Exar Kun


Seems odd that they would have to scrap the engine when it's been pretty much known for a long time (last year) that next year's engines would have to last 2 races. And nothing else directly affecting the engines has changed has it?

A guess: Chassis changes to accomodate the new rules which require different engine dimensions?

[Todd]

Originally posted by HP
A guess: Chassis changes to accomodate the new rules which require different engine dimensions?

The 2005 rule package was to continue the 2004 rules in tact. The engine as designed was a single weekend engine, which is why they pulled the plug on it some time ago.

[desmo]

Can't you just feel the costs being contained?

[Todd]

Originally posted by desmo
Can't you just feel the costs being contained?

The money saved by throwing away the 2005 car and engine designs must be....Hey! Wait a minute!

[FlatFoot]

Recall as well that Ferrari had a private test @ Monza utilizing some new aero bits that conformed to the '05 regs. Believe this was the week prior to the Monza race.

[Todd]

Originally posted by FlatFoot
Recall as well that Ferrari had a private test @ Monza utilizing some new aero bits that conformed to the '05 regs. Believe this was the week prior to the Monza race.

I've read two stories about that test, both originating with Ross Brawn. One was that the car was modified to meet the rules, the other was that the car was modified to simulate the anticipated downforce level of the new rules while not adhering to the rules themselves.

[HSJ]

Originally posted by Enkei


Yeah, his chin is worth a good 50 HP

Don't forget the 10 horsepower HELMET that he has!

Well, it shouldn't be easy for Ferrari to modify the F2004. But they have a massive lead on everybody else on 2004 technology, so even if there are drawbacks they have some margin to work with. The upgraded F2004 probably won't be so optimised for 05 aero rules, but the other teams need to both catch up to the F2004 level of technology and also make their 05 cars' aero work, so all in all I would expect the F2004 to be quite competitive in Melbourne. Difficult to say just quite competitive, of course. Anywhere from being the best car to fifth best, probably. Considering that Ferrari really want to do it, they probably expect to be in the top three at least. The most important thing, however, is that the F2005 is almost guaranteed to be the best car since not only will it benefit from Ferrari's 2004 dominance in two ways - the technology edge in itself and the fact that they could start preparing for 05 a bit earlier than the other teams - it will also be in design and development for longer than any other 05 car before debuting in races. Unless Bstone fails them, Ferrari will surely have the best car next year. I think we're back to 02-03 scenario in this, namely that going into 03 none of the other teams talked about beating Ferrari, only trying to close the gap.

[Greg Locock]

Desmo wrote

quote:Originally posted by Greg Locock
Note : Maybe my thread belongs to the nuff-nuff forum. If so, it might be moved by moderators.

Quite right. Have you got a URL?


How about www.evenfranklinwasbetterthanthis.com ?

[red300zx99]