49 replies to this topic

[gerard BARATHIEU]

I ask help from the australian members of the forum.

I saw some time in an AUSTRALIAN magazine that A.HAMILTON owns some time

a PORSCHE 908 coupe LH from the earliest period.

Does any one could scan the photo of the car.

it was fully white as i remember.

Thanks in advance.

[Ray Bell]

We might, seeing as you have started a thread with his name at the head, include a little detail about his racing career, okay?

Allan Hamilton (I think there are two ls) is the son of Norman Hamilton, who was Porsche's first distributor outside of Germany (or is that Europe?). The first time I saw him racing he had a spyder that had been built for hillclimbing... it ran a 2-litre engine, was a bit on the ugly side, but was very effective.

He progressed through a 908 in sports car racing and a 911 in touring cars to go into F5000, driving an ex-Niel Allen McLaren M10B. He acquitted himself quite well in this car despite the fact that he still smoked a pipe. After another pause in his racing, he emerged in the Prodsports class in another 911 derivative, graduating to a 930. He had a number of touring car co-drives at Bathurst too, and was a part of the Moffat/Ickx 1 - 2 sweep in 1977.

Then he bought the Team VDS Lola T430 and again was a contender in F5000... until that fateful 1978 Australian GP at Sandown where he wrapped it up under the Dunlop Bridge.

His injuries were severe. As a legacy of the crash he is also diabetic, but he regained physical health and resumed running Porsche Distributors until Porsche stopped supplying them and opened their own direct sales branch in Australia. I don't know that he actually raced a 908, but he had in his workshop a 917 and the TARF as well as the 908.

During this time he had the T430 rebuilt and put Alfredo Costanzo into the car... with great results. But one of their goals, the AGP, eluded them in '79 because of Larry Perkins' impetuosity. They also began planning the replacement for the T430 and bought an M26 that Howden Ganley had been modifying to be a ground effect car.

Allan was hooked on F5000s. But their days were numbered... the McLaren ran only a few times before Formula Pacific came in and the country swarmed with Ralts.

So he got a Tiga... or two... and Alfie Costanzo showed them a thing or two. They were striding away from the AGP field at Calder in 1983 when the car failed... the most effective opposition Roberto Moreno had in that AGP era.

Even in his enforced retirement (from both racing and the Porsche business) he remains active. Dismayed with the lack of integrity in the Clubman sports car his son wanted to prepare to race, he devised a whole new racing class and built a prototype car to promote the idea. His plan included a fixed price for the car, a transporter to go to all meetings with spares of everything anyone might need and a series where youngsters could get some pretty rapid miles behind them at a fairly low cost.

It hasn't happened yet... but it might...

He refers to the factory unit where he has his workshop full of racing cars (along with full size pool table, TV room etc) as his backyard. And I think he still smokes his pipe.

[gerard BARATHIEU]

Thank you very much RAY.

Do you know if race with the 908 as the 917/30 he owns one day.

I think also he was invoved with PORSCHE and run with some 911 and earlier type.

[Ray Bell]

I cannot recall him ever running a 908...

There was a 906, I think it was, a green one. I cannot remember him racing a Porsche that wasn't six cylinders.

The 917 was put in a parade or two, and now I remember that he had one of these (maybe the 917/30... I never saw it) at the Seaforth Grand Parade. But it was not a competitive event.

[David McKinney]

Alan Hamilton was advertising 908 #018 for sale in June 1991, and 917/30KL #004 at the same time.
And was he the 1980s Australian owner of the "Kangaroo" Bergspyder 904-007?

[gerard BARATHIEU]

Thank you vry much RAY and DAVID.

DAVID,

could scan the avertised about the PORSCHE 908/018 ?

[David McKinney]

Sorry, Gérard
My "recent" (last 20 years) copies of Autosport are not accessible.
However I think the ad was in the 6 June 1991 issue of that magazine, so if anyone else has copies perhaps they could help you out.

[gerard BARATHIEU]

thank you DAVID,

have yiu any idea if the 908 was sold?

[Roger Clark]

[gerard BARATHIEU]

Thank you ROGER.

Any idea if the car was sold or is always in AUSTRALIA ?

[Barry Lake]

Correct spelling is "Alan" Hamilton, with one "l", as in the advertisement.

I spoke to Alan at the Sydney Motor Show three or four weeks ago (sorry, "Australian International Motor Show" now!), will try to contact him to ask what he knows about the car's whereabouts.

[gerard BARATHIEU]

Thank you very much BARRY.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by gerard BARATHIEU
Any idea if the car was sold or is always in AUSTRALIA ?

Miller Historic Motorcars of Florida were advertising 908-018 for sale in July 1997
(though it might of course still have been in Australian ownership then)

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by David McKinney
.....And was he the 1980s Australian owner of the "Kangaroo" Bergspyder 904-007?

Is this the car that he raced in 1966?

If so, I suspect it had been tipped by then... it became the Bingham Cobra, then the Bingham Chev... got damaged, nothing left of it... you know the story.

[normbeechey]

In 1966 Alan Hamilton raced what looked a left hand drive 904 Spyder in 1966, similar to this car:
http://www.flat-6.ne...ar_model_id=401

I presume this is the hillclimb car Ray refers to? I agree that it was fairly ugly! I have a pic of it in Australian Autosportsman.

In the next week or so I will post a photo on my web site of Alan Hamilton racing what looks like a classic example of a 906 Spyder at Sandown in Feb 1967. It looks like left hand drive. The steel wheels look exactly the same as the 904 however.

In about 1971 Alan ran a Porsche “Spyder” in the Australian Sports Car Championship. It was green with Minilite wheels (at the front at least). The front bodywork looked like a 906 but the rear bodywork looked like a local fabrication, as I can’t find any photos on the web of a Porsche with such short, steep rear bodywork. I think it was LHD too.

Was it the same 904 or 906 from 1966/7 but updated with different bodywork? Ray’s original profile of Alan mentions a 908 but I am pretty sure he never raced a Porsche that looked like a 908 should.

Maybe the 908 that Alan had for sale in 1991 was a latter purchase, unraced by him, just like the 917-30?

Chris.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by normbeechey
In 1966 Alan Hamilton raced what looked a left hand drive 904 Spyder in 1966, similar to this car:
http://www.flat-6.ne...ar_model_id=401

I presume this is the hillclimb car Ray refers to? I agree that it was fairly ugly! I have a pic of it in Australian Autosportsman.

In the next week or so I will post a photo on my web site of Alan Hamilton racing what looks like a classic example of a 906 Spyder at Sandown in Feb 1967. It looks like left hand drive. The steel wheels look exactly the same as the 904 however.

In about 1971 Alan ran a Porsche “Spyder” in the Australian Sports Car Championship. It was green with Minilite wheels (at the front at least). The front bodywork looked like a 906 but the rear bodywork looked like a local fabrication, as I can’t find any photos on the web of a Porsche with such short, steep rear bodywork. I think it was LHD too.

Was it the same 904 or 906 from 1966/7 but updated with different bodywork? Ray’s original profile of Alan mentions a 908 but I am pretty sure he never raced a Porsche that looked like a 908 should.

Maybe the 908 that Alan had for sale in 1991 was a latter purchase, unraced by him, just like the 917-30?

That's all pretty right, Chris...

I didn't realise it was so long between runs with the 906, and I'd forgotten that they altered the body... but being the green it was was bad enough. By 1971, the 904 platform chassised thing had already been fitted with a V8, IIRC.

And I'm thinking that the 908 was put on the circuit for a display at some time...

Here's a pic from Racing Car News of the earlier car, the 904...

[GIGLEUX]

From what I know Alan Hamilton bought in 1966 the second Kanguruh, nicknamed Contergan. This car was built by the Porsche factory from a 904 chassis and received too a 2 liter-eighth cylinder engine (chassis numbered 906007 like the first Kanguruh). Fitted with a spyder body reminiscent of Kanguruh it was used by Mitter in the 1965 european hillclimb championship. With it Mitter won at Rossfeld and then on 24/7/65 won the 2000cc race on the Norisring. After that the car received a 6 cylinder engine and finished third in his category at Gaisberg, driven by H.Müller. It received the 6 cylinder engine as it was also used as test car for the Carrera 6 to come.
So Hamilton bought Contergan and also a tubular frame without any number and a body of Carrera 6. From that he built a Special fitting the engine and front and rear suspensions of Contergan on the new frame obtaining so a "new Carrera 6" which was used during years before migrating in SE-Asia. During the nineties the car returned in Europe. The 904 chassis was bought in the seventies by Pat Burke who fitted it with a 8 cylinder engine. It was proposed at the auction sales of Monaco in 1991 but was not bought. After that...

[Ray Bell]

Are you saying that Pat Burke bought and repaired the Bingham chassis?

He knew Porsches somewhat... he was the passenger in a 911 that expired five and a half hours out of Sydney... just the other side of Seymour... Warwick Brown driving, of course. Pre-freeway, of course...

[Paul Newby]

I heard that Pat Burke had the "Bergspyder" as part of his Milano Collection. I recall that Fred Vogel had some interest in purchasing this, but it never happened. This would have been around 1992. I always thought it was the "Kanguruh" with a flat 8 and European Hillclimb history, but of course this is all anecdotal.

[Ray Bell]

...as is Warwick's tale of the trail of smoke the other side of Seymour.

When Murray Bingham sold up, I got his trailer, the chassis was still there, but little else. The Chev engine went into a F5000, I believe. The body had been changed to make it an openwheeler years before.

Can't say what happened to the Rambler Matador tow car, however...

[mickj]

Didn't Alan Hamilton build the Jim McKeown mid engined 908 powered 911 for the Australian Sport Sedan series in the mid 70's

[Ray Bell]

Well, I don't remember this car at all... but if it was there, it would have come from Hamilton's...

But wasn't the chief builder-of-cars at their place named Heini or something? Very foggy on this.

[Milan Fistonic]

This is a photo I took of the 908 at the 1985 Australian Grand Prix in Adelaide.

Porsche Cars Australia had three cars on display.

1967 Porsche 906 Coupe
1969 Porsche 908 Coupe
1973 Porsche 917/30

Pat Burke Racing had a 1965 Porsche Bergspyder 8 on display.

[normbeechey]

Jim McKeown’s last Camel sponsored Porsche Sports Sedan was a radical turbocharged machine for its day, see a pic here:

http://members.tripo...orsche_1975.jpg

The engine was in front of the rear axle. I seem to remember the story at the time was that when they swung the engine the other way they had to reverse the direction the engine crank rotated. However, I suppose a 908 engine would make sense although I thought it was a locally developed engine used in the car.

Alan Hamilton was involved in the car from memory and it only ran in 1975, I think. It didn’t win much in the way of races, but was usually towards the front of the pack.

Chris.

[Ray Bell]

Chris... that tripod site doesn't allow you to look at anything other than their logo...

And that story about the engine would be the usual Melbourne hogwash... they get away with that in Melbourne because they operate in the shadow of the CAMS' office and so the elite within the building can't see what's happening... it's below their level of sight as they keep their noses in the air.

[normbeechey]

Ray if you highlight the URL above with your cursor and then "Copy" and "Paste" it manually into your browser address bar you should get access direct to that pic.

If all else fails go to the “1970’s page 3” page of www.MotorsportArchive.com
and you will find the pic at the bottom of the page.

I will ignore that anti Melbourne jibe…

Chris.

[tonicco]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Chris... that tripod site doesn't allow you to look at anything other than their logo...

Just try to copy the link posted by Chris and then paste it into your browser, that will do it.

[gerard BARATHIEU]

fantastic pic MILAN.

Does you have the same one for the 917/30 ?

[Milan Fistonic]

These show the three Porsche Australia cars.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by normbeechey
Ray if you highlight the URL above with your cursor and then "Copy" and "Paste" it manually into your browser address bar you should get access direct to that pic.

If all else fails go to the “1970’s page 3” page of www.MotorsportArchive.com
and you will find the pic at the bottom of the page.

I will ignore that anti Melbourne jibe…

Not a jibe, Chris...

I can cite many instances of things being 'allowed' by the CAMS in Victoria yet they would never get past first base in other states...

Let's face it, simply turning the gearbox upside down, or possibly even turning the CWP upside down, or maybe even using a different gearbox... any of these things are easily done. But to cut out the floor, repanel the whole thing, all in defiance of the rule about engine location... I ask you!

[normbeechey]

Ray, what they did was the same thing that Bryan Thomson did with his VW Chev. I don't remember it being illegal at the time, but I am from Melbourne remember

I believe that it was not until much latter, when the Frank Gardner Corvair came along, that the regs were changed - or clarified...

Of course it was Grice who was driving the Corvair by then.

Chris.

[Ray Bell]

Oh yes, sorry, it was still legal then...

So why did they trump up that wimpy excuse?

[normbeechey]

Excuse??? Are you referring to the way they turned the engine around? No excuse, they were just proud of what they did, or what they claimed they did.

Chris.

[Ray Bell]

Oh hang on... I'm working from a false premise here...

I misread what you wrote... I thought you were saying that they had to put the engine in front so they didn't have to reverse the direction. Instead, you were saying that this was what they did do...

Strange... but (now I remember!) Walter would have known what he was doing... I guess.

[normbeechey]

oh, ok.

[Barry Lake]

Finally I found the time to call Alan Hamilton.

He said there have been four Porsche 908s in Australia, but none of them raced here.

The first example came here in March 1969 for display at the Melbourne Motor Show. Alan asked the factory if he could buy it. They said no. Later, they said yes, he could have it for $4000. At that moment it was sailing out of Melbourne's Port Philip Bay in the hold of a ship. Too late!

Alan says this car had an external clutch on the rear of the gearbox and had one of the early engines that were used before they went to the flat-plane crankshaft and cross-over exhaust system as on all subsequent 908s.

Around 1974/75 Alan finally bought a 908 and soon had three of them.

One was registered for use on the road in Australia and Alan drove it on occasions, for fun. This was sold to Winston Kim (Australia), who also drove it on the public roads, then later it went to (Ziggy Brun?) in Austria.

The one advertised in Autosport around 1990-1991 "would have been the other complete car". That’s the one that Hans Hermann and Kurt Ahrens drove in the GP of Austria.

The third of the three 908s Alan owned, "...was the chassis we used in the Jim McKeown Sports Sedan with a turbo six engine. Later we dismantled the Sports Sedan and rebuilt the chassis back to its original chassis form. It then became a 908 Spyder because I had a full set of Spyder bodywork in the workshop. This car later went, as a Spyder, to a chap in USA."

Alan says he also had a couple of 2.0-litre 908 engines. One of these came from the wrecked Brabham in which Brian Falloon was killed in New Zealand, the other was bought, brand new, from the factory.

Alan wasn't near his paperwork when I called, so was unable to confirm the chassis numbers. If I learn these later, I will report to TNF.




So, on to the 906 Targa Florio car:

Alan says this originally had a 2.0-litre 8-cylinder engine, "...but I bought it with a new 906 engine that I had asked them to install. I imported that at the end of 1965 and raced it through 1966. Later I imported a new 906 chassis and body and put the mechanicals of the Targa car in that. Then Jim Abbot bought the Targa car and fitted a ZF gearbox and 289 Ford V8 engine. His estate, or perhaps Jim himself shortly before he died, sold the car to Murray Bingham in this form and it became the Bingham Cobra.
"Years later, Pat Burke bought the car and sent it to Germany where it was restored to its original Targa Florio specification.
"After Pat Burke fell on hard times it was auctioned at Monte Carlo. I think a man in Sydney bought it, but I have no idea who has it now. At one stage I saw it for sale for $US240,000 which I thought was very cheap at the time (about seven or eight years ago)."

[275 GTB-4]

All this talk of exotica being brought into Australia has jogged the memory....

I'VE GOT THIS TERRIFIC STORY!!......Unfortunately, I can't remember any of the details!! :

It involves a supercar/racing car being brought in specially for a Motor Show.....it could not be registered for the road and special permission was granted by the authorities for the exercise.....a top class Australian racing driver was asked to drive it from the Sydney?? Airport to the show (Shenken??)

Well part of the story I think, involves a Truck, tremendous speed, followed by tears as the car crumpled!!

Does anyone remember this one??

(for some reason Hamilton and Porsche comes into my mind.....maybe its the just association of ideas from this thread.... )

[gerard BARATHIEU]

very good job BARRY !!!

the knowledge of the chassis's number would be perfect !!!

two remarks:the name of the man who bought the street version must be SIGGI BRUNN and

not ZIGGY BRUN.

This man must have one of each form of the 908.

More very surprise about the 2L engine :it seems always the 908 was with a 3L !!!

thanks again about all these information about all of us.

I intend next year (i have an too old computer now),to create a site about the PORSCHE 908

history resarch.Like Franco VARANI does for the 917.

Thank you again for the quality of the answer to all of us.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by gerard BARATHIEU
.....More very surprise about the 2L engine :it seems always the 908 was with a 3L !!!

I think the 2-litre engine reference is in relation to the 'Bergspyder'... which was 904 based, was it not?

[Dale Harvey]

I think that there has been one omission regarding the 906 Targa Florio car. The next owner after Jim Abbott was Tom Sulman who ran the car in hillclimbs including the 1969 Australian Hillclimb Championship. Murray Bingham was then the next owner and he fitted it with a Manx sports car body. That was later changed into a type of openwheeler body and somewhere along the way the Ford engine was swapped for an Alan Smith F5000 Chev.
Dale.

[john medley]

Amongst all this Porsche to-ing and fro-ing , what then was Alan Hamilton's hillclimb car that I recall at Collingrove perhaps 25 years ago : spaceframe / no body / Porsche ( of course ) power ???

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Dale Harvey
.....and somewhere along the way the Ford engine was swapped for an Alan Smith F5000 Chev.

Errr... yes... one of Gary Campbell's engines, right?

I'm told the one that was sent out of the country to satisfy customs requirements was a pretty seedy looking 550hp Chevy...



John, I vaguely remember knowing about that car... but I can't recollect any details.

[normbeechey]

Thanks for the information Barry.

John, If Alan won the Australian Hillclimb Championship with that car, it may be listed in the CAMS manual (I don't have one to check).

There does not seem to be a list of Championship winners on the CAMS web site.

Chris.

[Ray Bell]

It was a Special... built in-house by Hamilton's men...

Now, having said that, it's possible that outsiders were involved in the design and/or construction... but it was all done for and/or by Hamilton.

[Barry Lake]

Gerard

Since you won't be needing the information until next year... (that's my kind of timing)...

I will be keeping in touch with Alan on other matters, so will try to fill in the gaps on the Porsches.

I might have misinterpreted some of the information; he was jumping back and forth a lot and I was having trouble keeping tabs on what he was telling me.

I'll be back!

[normbeechey]

For your interest, I've just uploaded a photo of Alan Hamilton's Porsche "Spyder" at Sandown in 1971 on my web site:
http://members.tripo.....down 1971.jpg

You may have to "copy" and then "paste" the above web address into your Internet Explorer address bar.

Regards,
Chris.

[gerard BARATHIEU]

CHRIS,

the real site is www.motorsportarchive.com.

You have to get to latest additions to see the PORSCHE.

According to BARRY LAKE prevent reply ,this car was not a PORSCHE 908.

the first one HAMILTON get was suring 1974/75.

Have some information about this particular one on the photo?

[sandy]

Not really related or even much of a story but mention of Norman Hamilton ignites an old memory when at the age of 15 in 1957, I was hitching a ride from Phillip Island and Norman appeared in a 550, saw me, hesitated, my heart raced, but he shook his head and was off - I still feel the longing to have been in that 550.

[normbeechey]

Gerard,

http://members.tripo.....down 1971.jpg

The Porsche in the photo would be the second 906 chassis referred to in the post by Barry Lake (below) :

"So, on to the 906 Targa Florio car:

Alan says this originally had a 2.0-litre 8-cylinder engine, "...but I bought it with a new 906 engine that I had asked them to install. I imported that at the end of 1965 and raced it through 1966. Later I imported a new 906 chassis and body and put the mechanicals of the Targa car in that. Then Jim Abbot bought the Targa car and fitted a ZF gearbox and 289 Ford V8 engine. His estate, or perhaps Jim himself shortly before he died, sold the car to Murray Bingham in this form and it became the Bingham Cobra.
"Years later, Pat Burke bought the car and sent it to Germany where it was restored to its original Targa Florio specification.
"After Pat Burke fell on hard times it was auctioned at Monte Carlo. I think a man in Sydney bought it, but I have no idea who has it now. At one stage I saw it for sale for $US240,000 which I thought was very cheap at the time (about seven or eight years ago)."

[gerard BARATHIEU]

nice CHRIS,

nothing more about the 908 ?