14 replies to this topic

[monoposto]

I am doing some research on Ayrton Senna's first F1 test at Donington on 19th July 1983 where he did 83 laps with a best time of 60.82 in the Williams FW08C

Does anyone know what was a 'good' time for Donington then ?
Did Palmer drive the car before Senna to set it up and establish a benchmark time ?
Who else was at Donington then ? I believe Toleman may have been, and if so what times were set ?
What did contemporary magazine reports make of the test?
There have been I believe some retrospective articles on the test, with interviews with Frank Williams - from memory in Autosport along the lines of 'defining moments in F1' and more recently in the glossy Formula 1 magazine. Can anyone supply dates ?

Thanks, in anticipation . . .

[Milan Fistonic]

Motoring News had this before the test.

Ayrton borrows a Williams!

Ayrton Senna was scheduled to try a Williams at Donington on Tuesday, although Frank Williams is anxious to point out that "it's not a formal test.

"We're just putting a car at his disposal for a day so that he can learn about an F1 machine. We're in absolutely no position to put a deal together with him for next year, but perhaps he'll remember that we did him a favour when he's made his reputation in a few year's time!"


There was only a short piece on the test a week later.

Senna's impressive Donington F1 trial

"He took to it like a duck to water. It was very easy for him." Thus commented Frank Williams on Aryton Senna's impressive first day out in an F1 car last Tuesday, the Brazilian completing 83 laps of the Midlands circuit at the wheel of a Williams FW08C. Towards the end of the day the Brazilian turned 60.9s on two separate laps, obviously pleasing the British team chief.

Said Senna, "It was everything I could have wanted. I learnt a lot, got some consistent laps in and benefitted from having Frank Williams there to watch over everything."

[monoposto]

Thank you for that ! As I recall it was on the front page of MN with a photograph. Is this correct ?
Was the photo accredited to anyone ?

[gdecarli]

I don't know what was F.1 track record at Donington in 1983.
Just to have a reference, I know F.2 and F.3 and Touring at the end of 1984:

• European F.2
  Best qualify: Jonathan Palmer (Ralt Honda) 1'00"93, 186.114 km/h - 25 June 1983
  Fastest lap in race: Corrado Fabi (March 822 BMW) 1'03"82, 177.690 km/h - 4 July 1982
  Best win: Corrado Fabi (March 822 BMW), 70 laps, 174.760 km/h - 4 July 1982
  
• European F.3
  Best qualify: Martin Brundle (Ralt RT3 Toyota) 1'07"75, 167.379 km/h - 9 October 1983
  Fastest lap in race: White (March 813 Alfa Romeo) 1'09"15, 163.991 km/h - 5 April 1981
  Best win: James Weaver (Ralt Toyota), 32 laps, 162.390 km/h - 4 April 1982

Ciao,
Guido

(from Autosprint Anno 1984, december 1984, page 232)

[Milan Fistonic]

Originally posted by monoposto
Thank you for that ! As I recall it was on the front page of MN with a photograph. Is this correct ?
Was the photo accredited to anyone ?

There is a colour photo on the front of MN showing a bare-chested Senna leaning on the rear wing of the wheel-less Williams while there a further two photos on page 3. One is another pit shot of Senna in the car talking to Frank Williams. The other is an action shot of Senna with two wheels on the grass heading into the chicane. No photographer is named.

[Gary C]

wasn't this FW08C-14 ??

[Milan Fistonic]

A week or so prior to Senna's run at Donington, KennyAcheson had his first F1 drive in the Ram-March 01.

MN reported that he lapped in 62.50s "which compares reasonably with Stefan Johansson's recent F1 record with the Spirit Honda of 60.0s."

[Ross Stonefeld]

So Senna was actually a second behind, not the second ahead on his debut people seem to recall...

[monoposto]

Chassis was FW08C/9
Senna did 2 laps in the 60's (on sucessive laps) and 22 in the 61's

[panzani]

Ross, Senna was one second faster than Donington's Williams track record, with Keke and/or Palmer with the same car. Not Donington's F1 track record itself.

monoposto, I hope this link helps your research. It is an article written by David Tremayne and Caroline Reid with some of Sutton's photographs taken on that day.

[Ray Bell]

And only a tenth off the outright (turbo...) pace too.

[monoposto]

panzani,

Thanks for the link and to everyone else's contributions too !

[Mark Beckman]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
So Senna was actually a second behind, not the second ahead on his debut people seem to recall...

What does it matter, the tests were weeks apart.

The weather that day was perfect (note the clothes worn in pictures that day) and there had been racing 2 days before laying rubber down.

What was the temperatures and the state of the track when Palmer tested and what 'testing' state was the car in ?

Note the tests with McLaren on the same day resulted in Senna, Brundle and Bellof setting similar times in a similar number of laps (I note the Donington times are listed to the tenth of a second but none are listed for the McLaren tests ).

I'm not debating the point whether Senna was faster or not than people such as Brundle, Bellof and Rosberg however the general intellegence of the posters in this forum is of a higher quality than any other forum I'v been to yet some still seem to fall for romantic stories such as "Senna jumped into a F1 car for the first time and was 1 second faster, WOW" !!

Just because he went 1 second faster doesn't mean he was 1 second faster, think a little bit about the variables.

Just as an example, with 1 year of further development, Australia's V8 Supercars went to Bathurst this year and all went over 1 second slower.

[Mark Beckman]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
And only a tenth off the outright (turbo...) pace too.

Donington was the only racetrack in the world that a less powerful and heavier but 'smooth torquecurved' 4 stroke Superbike held the lap record over a 'peaky torquecurved' 500cc 2 stroke Grand Prix motorcycle.

I see similar factors for Cosworth vs Turbo there too.

[MonzaDriver]

Monoposto,
I dont know if you already seen it,
but in the official DVD of Senna's foundation,
there are some minuts, I am not sure 5 or 7, dedicated to this test,
Ayrton speak also from the car with the helmet already on, just before to start,
Frank Williams is interwieved the test day and recently about this test.
The footage is beautiful but really short.
They mention no data on the DVD.
MonzaDriver.