42 replies to this topic

[RedFever]

Elio was killed in an accident at Paul Ricard during a testing session. I always knew his car lost the rear wing and therefore crashed heavily. However, I was under the impression Elio had died on impact or soon after due to massive injuries. I had never read that the car caught fire and burnt for some time with the driver trapped in it. I found this tidbit on the web:

Suddenly at the entry of the S de la Verrerie - at the approximate speed of 290 Km/h, the rear wing broke causing the Brabham to pitch and crash into the guardrails. The car was launched into the air and then landed upside down some 200 meters further, on the other side of the barriers.

Only two Benetton mechanics, who were arranging equipment in the pits, witnessed the accident. The Brabham immediately caught fire, but Elio could not extricate himself. The ill-equipped safety marshals then took a too long time to extinguish the burning Brabham and after that, it also took half an hour for the helicopter to arrive. Elio was transferred to the hospital CHU de la Timone in Marseille. All efforts to save Elio remained vain and 29 hours after his accident, Elio died on May 14 due to a cerebral asphyxia."

Can anyone confirm this? does anyone know what kind of injuries Elio suffered on his body? or was it only the smoke inhalation that killed him? looking back it is amazing how low security was only 16 years ago..........

[Ray Bell]

There are threads that deal with de Angelis' death...

Sorry, I can't locate them, but try a few keywords in the search feature and you'll find them... particularly posts by deangelis86

[LittleChris]

IIRC it was asphyxiation that killed him, similar to Roger Williamson 13 years before. The scary thing is that Francois Hesnault had a similar accident at the same place the previous year ( I Think ) and got away with it

[RedFever]

I can only hope he was unconscious after he crashed.....

[Rainer Nyberg]

From TNF contributor deangelis86 home page : http://www.geocities...ey_uk/page2.htm

[RedFever]

Thnaks rainer.

[Mila]

heading to the 86 Detroit GP, I shared a hotel shuttle with several people, one of whom was recognized as a journalist (or GP insider) by one of the other passengers. anyway, as the former was pumped full of questions by the latter, the subject of de Angelis' death came up. the "other passenger" indicated that he had understood that, as part of negligence in this incident, de Angelis was sprayed in the face with a fire extinguisher and that the spray was toxic. accordingly, this was--at least--a contributing factor in his demise--his body having absorbed through exposed skin, and his lungs having inhaled, the toxins. the "journalist" confirmed this.

that said, this is the only time I've seen the fingers pointing in this direction.

one way or another, simply a tragedy.

[Fastcar]

He just suffocated when his Air ran out because he was upsidedown rest on the barrier whilst the engine was burning. It doesn't matter does it ? Its a shame actually if you think that he was only 28 when he died he would've had another 10 years and he was really good too better than Patrese, Senna would qualify on Pole to de Angelis' 7th 11th kinda buzz Senna being on a different planet of course even in his first proper year.

[cheesy poofs]

Originally posted by LittleChris

The scary thing is that Francois Hesnault had a similar accident at the same place the previous year ( I Think ) and got away with it

Can't quite remember that one but I do recall Chico Serra, at the wheel of an Arrows, going for a terrifying ride in 1983 at that same spot. Luckily, the brazilian driver was uninjured.

Also, I have read that of one drivers present ( Surer ?? ) that day actually took the keys away from a sleeping official and drove the emergency vehicle himself to the crash scene...pathetic

[deangelis86]

Hi RedFever,

For the sake of not wanting to bore the rest of the TNFers in here to tears about an already well discussed topic, PM me direct if you have any more questions you may want answering

There is more than a touch of irony with regards to Hesnault's accident at Paul Ricard the previous year in 1985. It also happened the week following the Monaco Grand Prix, and what I do know was that it was a *massive* accident and the BT54 chassis was totally destroyed.

I can't confirm that the accident was at Verrerie, maybe someone can do some investigative work on this? It certainly shook up Hesnault badly, and he was probably relieved when he and Bernie agreed by mutual consent to part company.

It was also during a Lotus test session at Paul Ricard in June 1985 that Elio decided his future lay elsewhere.

All in all, rather spooky....

[Lutz G]

Originally posted by deangelis86
Hi RedFever,

For the sake of not wanting to bore the rest of the TNFers in here to tears about an already well discussed topic, PM me direct if you have any more questions you may want answering

There is more than a touch of irony with regards to Hesnault's accident at Paul Ricard the previous year in 1985. It also happened the week following the Monaco Grand Prix, and what I do know was that it was a *massive* accident and the BT54 chassis was totally destroyed.

Could you please discuss the topic in the forum? I think it's *very* interesting.

@cheesy poofs

I'll have a look in Surer's "Motorsport Explosiv" about the incident...

Lutz

[RedFever]

I remember hearing he suffered major chest and head injuries, so I assumed he died because of the impact. I was studying for my thesis and didn't have time to read sport press.

His funeral took place only 10 minutes from University of Rome, in an ancient church downtown. It was amazing to see that more than 10,000 Romans had gathered to salute Elio one last time.

[David M. Kane]

Elio was from a very prominant Roman family. I remember his father was extremely upset about how the whole affair was handled and he threaten to
take massive legal action, etc.

I may be wrong and I may be projecting my own feelings, but I always thought that Gordon Murray was never the same after this incident. I base
that strictly on my gut feelings and nothing else.

[Slyder]

Originally posted by LittleChris
IIRC it was asphyxiation that killed him, similar to Roger Williamson 13 years before. The scary thing is that Francois Hesnault had a similar accident at the same place the previous year ( I Think ) and got away with it

Hesnaults accident occured a year earlier, He crashed at the Verrieres sweepers, and his car ended up completely wrapped up in the catchfencing. I think he was trapped for like 15 minutes before they could freed him, possibly due to the fact that very few people witnessed the crash.

At any rate, Hesnault was really badly shaken and he retired from the sport immediately.

[Slyder]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Elio was from a very prominant Roman family. I remember his father was extremely upset about how the whole affair was handled and he threaten to
take massive legal action, etc.

I may be wrong and I may be projecting my own feelings, but I always thought that Gordon Murray was never the same after this incident. I base
that strictly on my gut feelings and nothing else.

You're right in mentioning that. Murray admitted that he was really devastated when De Angelis died in the cockpit of one of his cars.

Pretty much the same thing happened to Adrian Newey when Ayrton Senna was killed, he later admitted that he was devastated when Senna died that he seriously considered retirement at that time.

[deangelis86]

Gordon Murray certainly wasn't the same after the disaster.

It was the first time that any driver had lost his life in one of his cars, and given the fact that the accident was due to a breakage of the rear wing which may or may not have been something to do with the design, it is easy to understand Gordon's grief.

He certainly did lose his appetite for the sport, and had packed up and left Brabham by the end of the year. The best thing about Gordon for me was his great sense of fun, and I'm sure that Elio's death hit him very hard indeed.

Lutz G: Thanks for stating your interest! In all honesty though, I've been through so much research on the incident from historical archives, that all of it is pretty much posted on my website. There have already been several threads on here discussing this topic in great detail with which I've participated in, and they should be easy to find I hope.

David M Kane: Guilio de Angelis did indeed threaten legal action days after the incompetence of the marshalling came to light, but to my knowledge the case was not brought to fruition.

Just off topic, here's an interesting little story about Elio's father:

A while ago, I received an email from a Canadian Elio fan who was a marshal and met Elio many times. They were friendly enough for him to show Elio and his fiancee Ute around a local Canadian shopping mall.

Anyway, on the 10 year anniversary of Elio's death, a remembrance service was held by the de Angelis family to celebrate his life. Our fan faxed his interest to Elio's father, but announced that he was unable to get a flight to Rome to attend. Anyway, a couple of weeks later he receives a *handwritten* letter from Giulio de Angelis, acknowledging the fax and expressing his personal thanks. He also wrote that should any such gatherings take place in the future, he would be the first one to be notified.

How cool is that?

[Rediscoveryx]

Originally posted by deangelis86
Just off topic, here's an interesting little story about Elio's father:

A while ago, I received an email from a Canadian Elio fan who was a marshal and met Elio many times. They were friendly enough for him to show Elio and his fiancee Ute around a local Canadian shopping mall.

Anyway, on the 10 year anniversary of Elio's death, a remembrance service was held by the de Angelis family to celebrate his life. Our fan faxed his interest to Elio's father, but announced that he was unable to get a flight to Rome to attend. Anyway, a couple of weeks later he receives a *handwritten* letter from Giulio de Angelis, acknowledging the fax and expressing his personal thanks. He also wrote that should any such gatherings take place in the future, he would be the first one to be notified.

How cool is that?

That's great

[RedFever]

Maybe some of you know that Elio's father was again in the news a few years ago because he was kidnapped for ransom by Sardinian gangsters. He was in the construction business and had made a significant fortune. They used (I am using past tense because I have been in the US now for 10 years, so things might have changed) to live in Parioli, one of the very best areas of Rome. I remember twice running into Elio at the traffic light and watch him disappear with screeking tires on a Porsche with some beautiful girl near him (that was before he became a top F1 driver, that was during his 2nd or 3rd year in F1). ALthough I knew personally both Andrea DeCesaris (a ride in downtown Rome in Andrea's car was enough to get your hair grey, he was nuts) and Emanuele Pirro, I never had the fortune to be introduced to Elio.

[Lutz G]

Originally posted by Slyder


Hesnaults accident occured a year earlier, He crashed at the Verrieres sweepers, and his car ended up completely wrapped up in the catchfencing. I think he was trapped for like 15 minutes before they could freed him, possibly due to the fact that very few people witnessed the crash.

At any rate, Hesnault was really badly shaken and he retired from the sport immediately.

That reminds me on Jochen Mass's shunt in 1982 at Richard (mistral) - wrapped up in the catchfencing his car caught fire. He was very lucky to escape.

Everytime when I think of Elio I remember him being guest at "Das aktuelle Sportstudio" (German TV) playing the piano.

Lutz

[rookie]

Hi,

I am 21, and only started following f1 in early 90's, so everything before that i have to read about, and i haven't found

a lot of detail about what happned to Elio De Angelis, who seems like one of the top drivers of the 80's?

What ive gathered so far, seems to be testing one day at Paul ricard, he lost control on the ultra fast right hander at end of back straight. Is this correct...?

And does anyone have any explanation, was it car failure, driver error etc...

Cheers

[Aquarius]

If I recall correctly, his rear wing failed.

[Ray Bell]

You'll find some answers here, rookie...

http://forums.atlasf...&threadid=51411

By using the search facility, you will also come across other posts and threads that might enlighten you further.

[rookie]

great, thanks for that...

[Twin Window]

Hi rookie, and a warm welcome to TNF

As Ray says, using the search facility (up in the top-right, labelled 'Search BB') can unearth masses of info - there are 11,000 threads here! Also try playing aroung with the different options available to you which can help refine your searches.

Regarding Elio's accident... as the thread Ray linked to says, it happened in the super-fast esses after the pit straight when the rear wing of his BT55 became detached. A virtually non-existant presence of marshalls and safety crews, plus no helicopter on site, meant that Elio's chances of rescue were severely hampered and indeed contributed largely to his tragic death. A sad event which forever changed the way that testing is conducted.

Originally posted by cheesy poofs on the linked thread

Can't quite remember that one but I do recall Chico Serra, at the wheel of an Arrows, going for a terrifying ride in 1983 at that same spot. Luckily, the brazilian driver was uninjured.

This accident happened right in front of me, and was quite frightening - Chico was trapped in the car by the catch fencing which had wrapped round the Arrows it as it rolled. Luckily, there was no fire...

However it didn't take place at the exact same spot as Elio's accident would three years later, IIRC it was a little after, and whereas the Brabham went off on the right hand side of the track, the Arrows went off on the left.

[FLB]

Didn't François Hesnault also go off at Signes in 1985 (in the Brabham)? IIRC, he was also trapped upside down in catchfencing. It unnerved him so much that he decided to call his career quits.

[GerhardP]

As far as I know he was first rescued from the burning wreck of his car and brought back to life by the medicals and then died one day later in Marseille in hospital due to an injury of his brain.

[GerhardP]

De Angelis of course, not Hesnault.

[Rediscoveryx]

I think the cause of his death was brain damage from inhaling smoke/fumes, rather than from his burns. And as Twin Window pointed out; the accident did not happen at Signes, it was at the S-curve after the pit straight (I think it was called Verrière).

[FLB]

Originally posted by Rediscoveryx
I think the cause of his death was brain damage from inhaling smoke/fumes, rather than from his burns. And as Twin Window pointed out; the accident did not happen at Signes, it was at the S-curve after the pit straight (I think it was called Verrière).

de Angelis was killed at the Esses de la Verrerie. Christian Tortora, a French journalist who was there, said that he blew into de Angelis's air tube (from his helmet) and that he felt him move. The doctor who was there screamed at him to keep going. That's how they ressucitated Elio.

He died the follwing day in Marseilles due to brain and lung injuries caused by inhaling the hot fumes from the burning car.

[Berner]

...the very same Christian Tortora who currently does remotes from the tracks on the French-language F-1 broadcasts for Quebec's RDS channel. Wow, small world.

[Seebar]

Originally posted by David M. Kane

I may be wrong and I may be projecting my own feelings, but I always thought that Gordon Murray was never the same after this incident. I base
that strictly on my gut feelings and nothing else.

In a 1986 interview, Murray gave his theory "The same happened to Elio as once to François Hesnault. At 300 kph, one must not touch the kerbs in this S-corner. Hesnault had a similar accident at the same place for that reason, but he got away with it."

(Interviewer) And the rear wing flying off?

Murray, shrugging shoulders : The people who were doing speed measuring there were the only eye witnesses. But they looked too late. Noone saw the beginning of the accident..."

[Mark Beckman]

Originally posted by Lutz G



Everytime when I think of Elio I remember him being guest at "Das aktuelle Sportstudio" (German TV) playing the piano.

Lutz

Indeed, his musical talent was of very high standard.

[rookie]

Originally posted by Seebär



In a 1986 interview, Murray gave his theory "The same happened to Elio as once to François Hesnault. At 300 kph, one must not touch the kerbs in this S-corner. Hesnault had a similar accident at the same place for that reason, but he got away with it."

(Interviewer) And the rear wing flying off?

Murray, shrugging shoulders : The people who were doing speed measuring there were the only eye witnesses. But they looked too late. Noone saw the beginning of the accident..."

It still seems to be 50/50 split between driver error and car failure....does anyone have a reason why one explanation should be favoured over the other?

or is just one of those things that can't be explained.?

Cheers

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Mark Beckman

Indeed, his musical talent was of very high standard.

So it was. Upon his return from Kyalami in '82, I remember Eliseo telling me about the drivers strike and the fact that they were kept entertained by Elio and Bruno Giacomelli playing the piano. IIRC, Gilles played some jazz piano too...

[deangelis86]

Originally posted by Seebär



In a 1986 interview, Murray gave his theory "The same happened to Elio as once to François Hesnault. At 300 kph, one must not touch the kerbs in this S-corner. Hesnault had a similar accident at the same place for that reason, but he got away with it."

(Interviewer) And the rear wing flying off?

Murray, shrugging shoulders : The people who were doing speed measuring there were the only eye witnesses. But they looked too late. Noone saw the beginning of the accident..."

That is one very interesting quote from Murray, if indeed it happens to be true. The way the quote has been written seems to suggest that Elio may have played a part in his own downfall, or is it just me?

I for one cannot believe that Gordon seriously felt that Elio may have caused the crash. He has remained, to this day, very tight-lipped on the subject of the accident and his response after the tragic incident suggests that Elio's death weighed very heavily on his mind as chief design engineer througout the reminder of the 1986 F1 season.

In any case, one can hardly really compare Hesnault to Elio - one was a struggling inexperienced F1 driver clearly out of his depth and struggling to sort the Pirelli shod BT54, the other a veteran of six seasons, a grand prix winner and a consumate performer even with the dreadful BT55.

[deangelis86]

Originally posted by FLB


de Angelis was killed at the Esses de la Verrerie. Christian Tortora, a French journalist who was there, said that he blew into de Angelis's air tube (from his helmet) and that he felt him move. The doctor who was there screamed at him to keep going. That's how they ressucitated Elio.

All sources I've scoured said that Elio was unconcious when he was extracted from the car, and never regained conciousness. I suspect that the story is indeed true about blowing into the airpipe, but I don't think that Christian Totora did in fact manage to fully ressucitate Elio.

[Muzza]

Just following on deangelis86's posting above (I am also rather surprised to read Gordon Murray's quote posted by Seebär),


1.) I do remember seeing a picture of the main element of de Angelis' BT55 rear wing - with the Olivetti logo across it - laying on the ground much ahead of the Verrière esse. It is possible that this picture was published in a contemporary issue of Autosprint.

2.) At the time of de Angelis' death Autosprint published a detailed description of the accident, based on the witnesses' accounts, explaining that the rear wing of de Angelis'car flew away completely at the end of the La Bretelle straight (the pits straight).

3.) Also, I have read along the years similar accounts in other publications and, significantly, elements of the ring wing were found in a completely different area from where the BT55 crashed first and from where it ended [the car somersaulted several times before landing; it is suspected that the car went wide on the first leg of the esse - the lefthander - ran over the kerb sideways, took off, flew for more than one hundred meters (reaching as high as ten meters and pitching on the air) and then cartwheeling. The car ended upside down, beyond the guard rails on the left side of the track, amidst a vacant area].

4.) I also remember reading that the failure took place at the elements that secure the rear wing pylon to the car (earlier this morning I looked for a good picture of the rear of the BT55, but I could not find one in my magazines and books).

Perhaps Nanni (Dietrich) may also add something.

Regards,


Muzza

[FLB]

Originally posted by deangelis86


All sources I've scoured said that Elio was unconcious when he was extracted from the car, and never regained conciousness. I suspect that the story is indeed true about blowing into the airpipe, but I don't think that Christian Totora did in fact manage to fully ressucitate Elio.

Torto never said Elio had regained conciousness, just that he 'felt him move'. From what I understand, the driver's heart had stopped beating by the time the rescuers reached him.

[deangelis86]

Originally posted by FLB


Torto never said Elio had regained conciousness, just that he 'felt him move'. From what I understand, the driver's heart had stopped beating by the time the rescuers reached him.

My misunderstanding, when we talk about resuscitation we really mean it in the loosest possible sense.

I guess I always normally associate resuscitation as bringing a person round to conciousness which was clearly not the case with Elio, as they only succeeded in restarting his heart something which I appreciate is a form of resuscitation.;)

[deangelis86]

Been speaking to the author of the forthcoming Elio De Angelis biography, and there will be a section devoted to the accident at Ricard which hopefully will go someway in explaining what happened that fateful day in 1986.

There are accounts from people who were there, mechanics, drivers, friends and family plus there is an accurate account of what happend directly after and also at the hospital.

So I suggest you chaps log onto http://www.eliodeangelis.co.uk and reserve your copy of the book which will be launched in Rome during the first quarter of 2005.

[alain_sl]

Originally posted by Muzza
Just following on deangelis86's posting above (I am also rather surprised to read Gordon Murray's quote posted by Seebär),


1.) I do remember seeing a picture of the main element of de Angelis' BT55 rear wing - with the Olivetti logo across it - laying on the ground much ahead of the Verrière esse. It is possible that this picture was published in a contemporary issue of Autosprint.

2.) At the time of de Angelis' death Autosprint published a detailed description of the accident, based on the witnesses' accounts, explaining that the rear wing of de Angelis'car flew away completely at the end of the La Bretelle straight (the pits straight).

3.) Also, I have read along the years similar accounts in other publications and, significantly, elements of the ring wing were found in a completely different area from where the BT55 crashed first and from where it ended [the car somersaulted several times before landing; it is suspected that the car went wide on the first leg of the esse - the lefthander - ran over the kerb sideways, took off, flew for more than one hundred meters (reaching as high as ten meters and pitching on the air) and then cartwheeling. The car ended upside down, beyond the guard rails on the left side of the track, amidst a vacant area].

4.) I also remember reading that the failure took place at the elements that secure the rear wing pylon to the car (earlier this morning I looked for a good picture of the rear of the BT55, but I could not find one in my magazines and books).

Perhaps Nanni (Dietrich) may also add something.

Regards,


Muzza

there is a bird's eye view of the S de la Verrerie - La chicane portion of the circuit on page 3 of Paul Ricard circuit presentation file (PDF file) at:
http://www.circuitpa...p_fr_photos.pdf

1- Shattered pieces of the rear wing (I think it was one side rear wing plate and 2 central parts of the rear wing) were found at the exit of the S de la Verrerie (the right hander).
2- then next to the above rear wing parts were traces of chassis left on the track and after then only traces of tyres (car spinning).
3- the guard rail portion where the impact point occured has been removed as there is now a shortcut to the Mistral straight.
4- the car stopped at the trees just before La Chicane.

[deangelis86]

Originally posted by Muzza
Just following on deangelis86's posting above (I am also rather surprised to read Gordon Murray's quote posted by Seebär),


1.) I do remember seeing a picture of the main element of de Angelis' BT55 rear wing - with the Olivetti logo across it - laying on the ground much ahead of the Verrière esse. It is possible that this picture was published in a contemporary issue of Autosprint.

I suspect this is the photo you are referring to Muzza....

[f1steveuk]

Wasn't Alan Jones first on the scene? I'm sure I read that somewhere.

Having worked for Bernie fo some years, I was staggered rummaging around some crates to find the complete remains of Elio's BT55, which it was suggested was there because of an argument regarding either an engine failure. Regardless it was a nasty shock, and a humbling experience.