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#1751 Greg Locock

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 02:16

A venturi in a free field does not behave like the classical venturi. Most of the air goes round it not through it.



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#1752 Kelpiecross

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 02:59

 That bastard Betz and his bloody Law again. 

 

 One of the mysteries (to me at least) of wind  turbines is the fact that the frontal area of the two or three skinny blades is a fraction of the total disc area (maybe as little as 5%?).  You (or I) would think that a lot of the wind would slip past the blades unmolested and into the distance like "a fart through hessian pyjamas"  (Old Korean saying).

  Presumably the rotational movement of the blades intercepts a much higher percentage of the wind than the blades' frontal area would suggest.  My vague suggestion of a venturi/collector was intended to ensure that a lot more of the airstream was made use of.

  One of the assumptions of Betz's Law was that there was "an infinite number of blades" (Wiki) - presumably meaning that there was no wind leakage (not more fart jokes) past the blades.  A typical farm windmill seems to try for a much higher percentage of  wind capture with its high percentage of blade area. 

 

 I find wind turbines very interesting - but I don't think they are a sensible alternative to a proper Whiteman's power station.  These new Thorium reactors look promising.        

 

  I still have a problem with the skinny blades.  These turbines claim about 75% efficiency (75% of Betz limit - about 45%).  If you picture air striking a  blade then the air molecules adjacent to these are passing the blade without striking them.  I would have guessed to get a 75% efficiency just about all of the airstream would have to encounter a blade?       



#1753 Greg Locock

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 07:15

Here's a CFD test on a venturi. You can see that the entry to the venturi has a reduced velocity, in this case about 70% of the free flow velocity, and the velocity in the throat of the venturi is only 170% of the free flow 

 

http://www.mediafire...enturi.PNG/file

 

 



#1754 Greg Locock

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 07:18

Kelpiecross- no that is the way that propellers work. it is called momentum disc theory. The main problem with slender blades si that the pressure loading gets too high. The advantage is that they have better efficincy.



#1755 Wuzak

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 08:03

Here's a CFD test on a venturi. You can see that the entry to the venturi has a reduced velocity, in this case about 70% of the free flow velocity, and the velocity in the throat of the venturi is only 170% of the free flow 

 

http://www.mediafire...enturi.PNG/file

 

I think we've been here before

https://forums.autos...12#entry4946127

 

Though the picture is gone.



#1756 Greg Locock

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 08:10

Ha, good stuff.



#1757 Feliks

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 11:47

 

So I would rather advise you to read my posts carefully, because then I have to repeat myself .. Well, if you can imagine, maybe I can imagine how a podnica would have to be for this funnel with a mean of 200 meters. I used to give zory earlier, so it should not be difficult, But it is, as you can see. Well, this streamer would have to have more than 10,000 MW and it has not built or built such a node yet ... quickly ...
I also see that unfortunately there is no imagination, because you do not have to put such a nozzle on the wind, because it is unproductive, in contrast to children's windmills. You have to build such four nozzles, for every side of the world, always one will be set close to the wind .. at the sea, it is enough to go to the sea. But to invent new solutions, having a faint idea about it, it is out of place ...
Below, once again gives calculations and dimensions of nozzles that would be needed, so that all of Poland would have electricity from them. Probably for England 3 such sets are enough .. But you also need to learn such generators 2000 MW build, but for some plumbing, divide then on smaller streams ..
 
venturi%2011%2020000%20MW.jpg
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Venturi%20100m.jpg
 
 
 
 
 
Andrew  :smoking:

 

 
 
However, it is exactly as in the drawing. I do not know why your sucked-out theories the thesis, some people argue with disappearing images ... of course, everything that is written on this subject is simply not true. I have been dealing with the cones for 35 years, when it was necessary to implement such cones for my engine. Truth, that was nice at that time? But over these 35 years I have about the cones correct knowledge, which thanks to the internet I have expanded and I can document it, not on disappearing images ... in the eyebrow what some people try to tell here, but all the air flows through the venturi nozzles, but of course you need an external side also properly designed,
Why all this air passes through the nozzles .. Just for the simple reason that the throat is underpressure, which air draws into the nozzle .. just as it is than the atmospheric draws in air, creating a cyclone Low-pressure area.
Where does energy come from? and from the fact that all the air closed by the outline of venturi takes part in its production, because it can not "break" and now let's see how much is its amount. And at 5 meters per second of input and 500 meters of nozzle length will be the flow of air 100 seconds , that is almost 2 minutes .. and the whole mass of this air takes part at any time, at the same time in the production of this energy. Only the speed of the nozzle will be increased, because there is a variable cross-section, because the number on the input and on the output must be the same.
And all this can be calculated using venturi calculators, only then venturi nozzles should be made properly and not some cones to play in a brass band ... something and there you can see how it can be strengthened weak sound, which arises on the mouthpiece, and thanks to the cone becomes very loud ... without any electric amplifiers.
 
feliks%20and%20new4stroke%201985.jpg
 
 
here venturi nozzles that drive the most important aviation instruments ..
 
SAM_0108.JPG
 
and here venturi calculators, where you can count everything ... instead of telling fairy tales
 
 
 
Andrew  :smoking:  :smoking:


#1758 Feliks

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 15:51

In the throat of the nozzle benturi occurs during the air flow pressure T0 sagging causes gasoline to be sucked up from the chamber with the fuel of the carburetor .. When there is no flow (the engine is stopped) the fuel itself does not go up and does not pour out of the chamber to intake manifold automatically. Only when there is air flow there is a vacuum in the throat of venturi and it causes suction of gasoline and then it falls into the intake pipe. Someone who seems to have overpressure there does not know even the basic structure and the principle of the carburetor. There is, UNDERPRESSURE.. 

 

  https://www.youtube....h?v=oIU-lGc3DL4

 

Andrew :smoking:



#1759 Feliks

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 22:56

These primitive CFD programs and performed simulations on them are very far from the reality a lot .. And why, that's why they do not take into account the flow outside the venturi nozzle, and thus often come to absurd conclusions. .. Because both the pressure and speed at the beginning nozzle and at the end of the nozzle must be the same .. and on some simulations it is obvious that it is not ...
Because the air flow through the venturi is difficult to predict, long-term experience has been done in the wind tunnel and charts have been developed
I also did experiments and measured in the throat what is the real air speed, and was consistent with the calculations. I am talking about my project of a new venturi nozzle, adapted to the production of current, which has the property that it has a turnbangle with a maximum large diameter, equal to diameter of the inlet to the nozzle. because of this we get a bigger moment and the possibility of a larger number of blades on the perimeter ..
 
Venturiinner.jpg
And it is so, since when measuring the velocity, which was carried out using the device with a propeller, and measures the speed of its rotation through miniature generators, the instrument, it is also a large propeller to do the same, but on a large generator ...
here the nozzle is counted by me and I can see that it is not an ideal cone, but with roundings
 
DSC_0115.jpg
 
1.jpg
 
because that's it, it's like in an airplane ... whatever goes wrong, it will not fly at all, and if it's flying, it's probably many years of learning ...
 
Andrew  :smoking:

Edited by Feliks, 01 June 2019 - 22:57.


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#1760 Greg Locock

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 23:09

The venturi calculators assume that all the air goes through the venturi. As we have now explained a few times, a venturi in the free field only captures a fraction of the air impinging on it, the rest goes round the side.



#1761 Feliks

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 02:39

The venturi calculators assume that all the air goes through the venturi. As we have now explained a few times, a venturi in the free field only captures a fraction of the air impinging on it, the rest goes round the side.

the ordinary neverending repeated several times becomes true ... here the report from this experience from 1937 does not follow it at all. This illusion makes such false conclusions. In a car gas-fired the whole greetings goes through nozzles creating a vacuum that sucks gas from the chamber. This vacuum causes the entire air to be shed ... ..  http://www.new4strok...ritubes1937.pdf

 

Andrew :smoking:



#1762 Kelpiecross

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 03:04

Kelpiecross- no that is the way that propellers work. it is called momentum disc theory. The main problem with slender blades si that the pressure loading gets too high. The advantage is that they have better efficincy.

 

 I looked up "momentum disc theory" - didn't (couldn't) understand a word of it.    In simple terms - does this mean that all of the energy of the wind on the turbine disc area is involved - not just the wind striking the blade area?      



#1763 Wuzak

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 03:42

the ordinary neverending repeated several times becomes true ... here the report from this experience from 1937 does not follow it at all. This illusion makes such false conclusions. In a car gas-fired the whole greetings goes through nozzles creating a vacuum that sucks gas from the chamber. This vacuum causes the entire air to be shed ... ..  http://www.new4strok...ritubes1937.pdf

 

Andrew :smoking:

 

Table I shows drag for each of the tested venturies at 100mph and the drag coefficient.

 

Table III shows Suction Coefficient (Bs), Flow Coefficient (Bf) and Drage Coefficient (Bd) and efficiency. The best efficiency was 4.5%.

 

The conclusions state that the drag is proportional to impact pressure and that drag was reduced when the ventruri was put in an aerodynamic fairing, but the amount of suction was also reduced. I couldn't find a definition of impact pressure, but I assume it is the pressure where the air meets the inlet of the venturi.

 

Also interesting for an American document in the 1930s is that the temperature is stated in Celsius, and the atmospheric pressure stated in millimetres of mercury, though most pressure/suction measurements were in inches of mercury and the impact pressure in pounds per square foot.

 

The drag is caused by the stagnation at the inlet (the round light blue area ahead of the tube in Greg's picture) and the low pressure region at the exit. There is also the matter of skin friction in the tube, particularly for something that is 500m long.

 

Adding a turbine in the throat will cause further restriction.

 

Andrew, if you have a couple of those anemometers, I would suggest building cone sections around one of them, probably in paper, sitting it in front of a fan and then measuring the free stream wind speed with the second device and comparing it to the speed in venturi. Would love to see how that matches your calculations.



#1764 Wuzak

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 03:48

 I looked up "momentum disc theory" - didn't (couldn't) understand a word of it.    In simple terms - does this mean that all of the energy of the wind on the turbine disc area is involved - not just the wind striking the blade area?      

 

I think if you have too many blades they will start to interfere with each other.

 

And wider blades may get more energy out, but also have more drag.



#1765 Kelpiecross

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 04:32

I think if you have too many blades they will start to interfere with each other.

 

And wider blades may get more energy out, but also have more drag.

 

 That would be my (and the common sense) understanding - but as with all things Betz etc. I think these concepts are independent of blade number and area etc.  Maybe a clever person can explain all to us. 



#1766 Greg Locock

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:09

I'm more used to designing marine propellers than windmills. The most efficient propeller has one, slender blade. But if you put too much power through it it cavitates (or stalls in air), so you add another blade, and make them wider. This gives  a very obvious measurement, the blade area ratio, ie how much of the disc is covered by blades. High BAR is good for power handling, bad for efficiency.  The tradeoff between two fatter blades and 3 more slender ones is something you have to measure rather than calculate. I have those curves for marine propellers, but not wind turbines.

 

One additional complexity is that Felixes design is a ducted fan it is not in free field.



#1767 Wuzak

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 09:05

I'm more used to designing marine propellers than windmills. The most efficient propeller has one, slender blade. But if you put too much power through it it cavitates (or stalls in air), so you add another blade, and make them wider. This gives  a very obvious measurement, the blade area ratio, ie how much of the disc is covered by blades. High BAR is good for power handling, bad for efficiency.  The tradeoff between two fatter blades and 3 more slender ones is something you have to measure rather than calculate. I have those curves for marine propellers, but not wind turbines.

 

One additional complexity is that Felixes design is a ducted fan it is not in free field.

 

Greg, do you think that a ducted turbine of the size and length Feliks proposes would also suffer from boundary layer build up?

 

I know that some WW2 radiator ducts suffered from this. The Supermarine Spiteful lost 1/8 of its effecrive area because of boundary layer build up on the roof of the duct.



#1768 Greg Locock

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 09:40

I think a 188m long intake will see a pretty thick boundary layer, but short of digging my books out I don't have a great feel for it.



#1769 Feliks

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 12:28

So, as you can see, your theories are false, you base it on who seems to be ... and not on what really is ... do we have rain or sun, and what is our mood today ... And anyway, it's an airplane he can not fly, because he uses the law of Bernoilini ... but years .. Also in the throat of the nozzle, the air speed will be 10 while the flow field will descend to the entrance will also be 10 times smaller surface .. and no matter how much air flows ...
of course, if we try to catch the air only with the input cone, then the pressure will rise and the flow will not be minimal .. But when we put a much longer exit cone, it will cause that the flow will be almost complete .. the pressure in the throat will suck it from the first cone .. and indifferent how much in the air vent valve ranuri, but it gives a relatively high vacuum which quite heavy weight of the gyroscopes in the airspaces is scattered to 10,000 rpm. And so at all the morozmowa about the wings started and here as the setting of the wings can block the flow, and how to speed it up ... depending on the angle of the setting .. of course, it depends on the number of Reynolds, which must be counted for the particular system ... here video explains what is jet grad efect, i.e. the phenomenon of high pressure in the entrance cone .. on this basis boats over water flying on this overpressure .. By the way the simulation also showed the underpressure between the two wings, and how it is underpressure, the speed of the air flow must be much greater ..  The same in Venturi .. 
 
 
 
And personal experience in other matters really have nothing to do here, apart from trying to keep your authority, which when it comes to aerodynamics, is minimal ...
 
Andrew :smoking:

Edited by Feliks, 02 June 2019 - 12:41.


#1770 Feliks

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 17:50

Here you can perfectly see the practical experience at the aviation museum in Krakow. On the apparatus for measuring the lift force for various air profiles made of styrofoam. The fan blows the air into a profillotor mounted on a scales with a long arm, on which it is possible to determine how much the weight of a given profile is reduced. Profiles can be changed and value of strengths ... I put a similar profile from top to bottom, and saw a very big force lifting this second profile on this scale.
This testifies to the formation of a very large underpressure between the wings. More than normal force at this wind speed.
 
 
 
Andrew :smoking:


#1771 PayasYouRace

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 20:24

 turnbangle 

 

 

 

 

profillotor 

 

Loving your invented words.



#1772 PayasYouRace

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 20:31

I'm more used to designing marine propellers than windmills. The most efficient propeller has one, slender blade. But if you put too much power through it it cavitates (or stalls in air), so you add another blade, and make them wider. This gives  a very obvious measurement, the blade area ratio, ie how much of the disc is covered by blades. High BAR is good for power handling, bad for efficiency.  The tradeoff between two fatter blades and 3 more slender ones is something you have to measure rather than calculate. I have those curves for marine propellers, but not wind turbines.

 

One additional complexity is that Felixes design is a ducted fan it is not in free field.

 

Same principle applies to helicopter rotors. Number of blades and blade spans and areas all depend on the expected flight regimes, engine power available, etc.



#1773 Feliks

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 20:35

Loving your invented words.

:wave:

And I love autosport and some great comments .. oh my word-of-wisdom, it's certainly because I have a few years such a very rare condition, which causes that I see double, it is called Miastenia Gravis ..

 

https://en.wikipedia...asthenia_gravis

 

. I got it from the big stresses I had. But try to write more, though it's not easy for me ... But manu thanks ..

 

 

Andrew  :wave:



#1774 Feliks

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 22:39

Is the second rule of termodyamiki always true? ..

It speaks of heat engines, that is, to which we supply heat to get work ... or you can provide cold, for example, causing freezing of water, which expands when frozen and say something like a mass up ..

As a result of delivery cold, not heat.

Theoretically, such an engine is possible .. i.e. it will be a cold engine .., incompatible with this second law of thermodynamics .. ..

 

Andrew ..  :rolleyes:



#1775 Wuzak

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 01:36

 

These primitive CFD programs and performed simulations on them are very far from the reality a lot .. And why, that's why they do not take into account the flow outside the venturi nozzle, and thus often come to absurd conclusions. .. Because both the pressure and speed at the beginning nozzle and at the end of the nozzle must be the same .. and on some simulations it is obvious that it is not ...
Because the air flow through the venturi is difficult to predict, long-term experience has been done in the wind tunnel and charts have been developed

 

Hi Andrew,

 

Just want you to explain this conclusion:

 

9. Fairing the external surface of the venturi tube reduced the drag but also reduced the suction developed.

 

Why would that be so?

 

If the venturi worked the way you suggest, surely it would not matter?



#1776 Feliks

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 22:12

 

Why would that be so?

 

If the venturi worked the way you suggest, surely it would not matter?

Thanks for the careful observation of this report from 1937, so clearly it is obvious that sucking also depends on the outer part of the nozzle .. obviously it can have a different shape, and thus a different impact on the size of this suction. That's why he writes that all this is not a simple matter and there should be a separate department at the university to open, which will deal with all these matters, because there are many of them ...
 but you did not exactly read my statements, because I just pointed out the outer shapes of the nozzle, and not as you suggest the opposite I wrote that it does not matter .. here my quote ...

 

 

n disappearing images ... in the eyebrow what some people try to tell here, but all the air flows through the venturi nozzles, but of course you need an external side also properly designed,
Why all this air passes through the nozzles ..
 
Andrew  :smoking:  :smoking:

 

 

 

 

The matter develops, both interspersed as external shapes can change, for better operation .. because, of course, each of us was making models of airplanes in youth, and sometimes the first ones did not want to lash out. Only then, having some experience, their flying was satisfactory .. Here we have exactly the same matter, it must be well and with experience to make it work well.
 
and we can, just as it is in the aircraft wing, use slots and flaps, to change efficiency ...
 These in the Formula 1 cars, however, the wings that can be modified with such slots and flaps, so that they will work well with less speed, I think that it would be very useful for Williams  :lol:
 
 And finally, we have good access to this NASA CALCULATOR for flight profiles. No Java pieces are needed.
 Well, you can see that there is a place on the air profile, where the speed of the air is 3 times higher than the speed of the general .. but this is only on a small part of the profile .. But there would be set turbine ..
 
wingspeed.jpg
here a link to this calculator and you can start learning aerodynamics yourself ... before the university is formed in this direction of aerodynamic energy. :rolleyes:
 
 
Andrew  :smoking:
 

Edited by Feliks, 04 June 2019 - 22:13.


#1777 Feliks

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 21:57

Is the second rule of termodyamiki always true? ..

It speaks of heat engines, that is, to which we supply heat to get work ... or you can provide cold, for example, causing freezing of water, which expands when frozen and say something like a mass up ..

As a result of delivery cold, not heat.

Theoretically, such an engine is possible .. i.e. it will be a cold engine .., incompatible with this second law of thermodynamics .. ..

 

Andrew ..  :rolleyes:

 

 
Here about Lord Kelvin ... please read the first Thermodynamics quotes from my Wikipedia ... above I proved that imaginatively such a motor for freezing water, it is possible when we provide him with the right amount of cold .. Could Lord Kelvin make a mistake again ??
It is obvious to me that if I deliver "cold" to the engine, I can get mechanical work ...
So his claim is untrue ..

 

https://en.wikiquote...William_Thomson

 

Andrew..  :smoking:  :smoking:



#1778 Kelpiecross

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 05:05

 

 
Here about Lord Kelvin ... please read the first Thermodynamics quotes from my Wikipedia ... above I proved that imaginatively such a motor for freezing water, it is possible when we provide him with the right amount of cold .. Could Lord Kelvin make a mistake again ??
It is obvious to me that if I deliver "cold" to the engine, I can get mechanical work ...
So his claim is untrue ..

 

https://en.wikiquote...William_Thomson

 

Andrew..  :smoking:  :smoking:

 

 

 

 Your "ice" engine would still rely on temperature differences to operate - thus would not violate any laws of nature .  You could probably devise a "nitinol engine"  to work with a supply of ice and the ambient temperature. I don't know how the laws of thermodynamics apply to nitinol engines - but I suspect they do. 

 

  I think what Billy Thomson meant  is that you can't devise an engine that runs making one area hotter and another cooler.  

 

 An interesting idea in this same area is the concept of having a "heat pump" (as in air conditioners. water heaters  etc.)  which can gather up to 7 (I think) times the amount of heat  compared to the amount of electricity the operating motor consumes - and then put this energy into a heat engine of some sort  (nitinol maybe?) - and then having a net energy output.  I am pretty sure that this doesn't work (that bastard Billy Thompson would never allow it -  B.T. is a similar spoilsport to that bastard  Betz).    But maybe you could improve "low grade" heat sources with such a system?   


Edited by Kelpiecross, 12 June 2019 - 03:01.


#1779 Feliks

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 15:56

 Your "ice" engine would still rely on temperature differences to operate - thus would not violate any laws of nature .  You could probably devise a "nitinol engine"  to work with a supply of ice and the ambient temperature. I don't know how the laws of thermodynamics apply to nitinol engines - but I suspect they do. 

 

  I think what Billy Thompson meant  is that you can't devise an engine that runs making one area hotter and another cooler.  

 

  I am pretty sure that this doesn't work (that bastard Billy Thompson would never allow it -  B.T. is a similar spoilsport to that bastard  Betz).    But maybe you could improve "low grade" heat sources with such a system?   

 

Maybe he thought about it, but he shared something else, what is cited in Wikipedia.  ;)

 

And this is also not true, because the sun does not know that in addition, he must drive Cox clocks.
 
 
 
Sends the same amount of energy all the time. And it depends on us whether we use it or not .. Well, for example, solar batteries are easy to heat. (or cold) we can change ...
besides, however, this Billy Thompson is seriously ridiculing himself with this machine, which is heavier than air, which means that he carried out his observations badly, because even the bird could not see ... :) 
He probably thought that it was God's case that he flying.. :rolleyes:

 

Interestingly, what would Betz say for sea waves of a height of 10 meters, which arises due to the wind, and has a length of say 300 meters, a weight of about 100 000 tons and the speed of a few meters per second .. And thanks to it really carries a large the amount of energy, given that the water's density is 1000 times greater than that of air ...

 

And it has a windmill with a diameter of 60 meters..

 

https://www.google.c...iact=mrc&uact=8

 

 

Andrew  :smoking:



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#1780 Feliks

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 09:53

Atmospheric engine .. but this time without ... a steam  .. :kiss:

 

ground700.gif

 

 

Andrew  :smoking:



#1781 Bloggsworth

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 14:43

Atmospheric engine .. but this time without ... a steam  .. :kiss:

 

ground700.gif

 

 

Andrew  :smoking:

 

Love it - Janet and John go green...



#1782 Greg Locock

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 20:36

That'll 'work', in much the same way as any positive displacement pump geometry will 'work' as an IC engine, to the endless delight of mad inventors and unfortunate investors. It still suffers from the problem that most of the airflow will want to go round the venturi, not through it.



#1783 Feliks

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 23:19

 It still suffers from the problem that most of the airflow will want to go round the venturi, not through it.

 

Most? And what if it is known that however it will be the majority ?? However, some believe that there was no era of aviation and air instruments driven by venturi nozzles on the plane .. It will not swim, because there is a large pressure in the throat .. which is a thin, long tube carried to airplanes in which a heavy brass gyroscope accelerates to 10,000 rpm. So, however, does not flow ... because venturi nozzle is not a flat plate, as if some dreamed ... Of course, if there was only an entrance cone, it would be so, because the pressure increased and did not allow the air to enter .. But it is especially long exit cone, which provides laminar flow and all the air will flow .. because in the throat will create a vacuum that will suck it into the middle of the nozzle .. The pressure in the aircraft is so large that the air sucked in is going through the filter to prevent any impurities from falling into the indicators . Here is also an animation of how the gyroscope drives in these air instruments .. You can see in the photo, my hand, and give that one nozzle is really small, and it works. despite everything you want to tell us ... Of course, everything has to be done with moderation and minimal experience. Well, I bet the first module of the plane you've done for sure did not want to fly ...

Venturigauge.jpg

 

 

venthand.jpg

 

 

airdriveindicator.gif

 

 

Andrew :smoking:  :smoking:



#1784 Feliks

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 23:42

 It still suffers from the problem that most of the airflow will want to go round the venturi, not through it.

 

And here you have, one of the venturi's larger nozzles, which she was doing in a room where the moonfinder was tried to investigate his behavior ...

 

largeventuri2.jpg

 

Or, for the manufacture of vacuum 

 

laser1.jpg

 

Or a water pump, and just enough air ...

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=HHa42cY0QZI

 

Andrew :wave:


Edited by Feliks, 22 June 2019 - 23:45.


#1785 Greg Locock

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 08:58

No, your pictures of ejectors are irrelevant to the point in question.



#1786 Feliks

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 10:39

No, your pictures of ejectors are irrelevant to the point in question.

But somehow I did not notice my picture about air instruments. Do you have a poor view or some other reason ... You can clearly see that there is air flowing through the nozzles ... contrary to what you are trying to say in public ..

 

Andrew  :lol:



#1787 Feliks

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 12:10

here I recommend the purchase of such a venturi nozzle, which is mounted outside the plane to drive aerial instruments.    https://www.aircraft...es/venturi3.php

 

And some video ... 

My power plant is such a large, very large aviation device...

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=q2Zgvxn4rSA

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=ykwJI-7W-c4

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=f2thngd9AGI

 

Andrew  :wave:



#1788 Greg Locock

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 20:28

Some air goes through the venturi to power the instruments. I did not say no air would go through. If you are going to be irritating then I'll stop playing. 



#1789 Feliks

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 21:51

That'll 'work', in much the same way as any positive displacement pump geometry will 'work' as an IC engine, to the endless delight of mad inventors and unfortunate investors. It still suffers from the problem that most of the airflow will want to go round the venturi, not through it.

 

Some air goes through the venturi to power the instruments. I did not say no air would go through. If you are going to be irritating then I'll stop playing. 

 

Ok Greg, I do not want to be irritating, but I am quoting exactly what you said .. I perfectly understand that my arguments are completely new and can be uncomfortable for many people, because they are nervous, why they did not invent it first. In addition, actually the number of new "Inventions" is really irritating, because they are just completely stupid .. and imperfect .. And I see it myself too ... But before I publish it, I have to be sure that they are good and worth publishing .. And only on truly working arguments can give me the right answer. Repeating your claims is not the right way, though I understand that in the face of new things they may seem the only defense .. because really new ones are hard .. So I understand, but also think about what see how you really understand that this is really a good thing ... although maybe you do not take it into account right now. Convince others and investor leaves we're on it ... Because, even in two, we can not influence it. I think I did a lot of things to make people understand it ... :wave:

 

fold.jpg

 

Well, here you can say that the veturi nozzle is a folded wing of the plane to the round. Even its internal profile, adjusted to the profile of the air wing, will be better than regular cones.
But it's the best to use the Flat Nozzles of the Vigens,
I can easily see it on the films I have made, and on one even an ordinary dryer can create a vacuum that traces wings to one another. On the next is the same only on a bigger show (weight to the strength of the styrofoam profile)
You can clearly see that the weather influences the profiles by making a relatively high pressure (and hence, the air speed) and you can see it weighs heavily, that it is much more than a normal lift of the aircraft profile ...
And now because it's all new and unexplored, you'll have to do a lot of research and prototypes to make the best use of it.
Unfortunately, it does not help me in my health anymore, and even writing to me is difficult.
 
 
 
 
 
Andrew  :smoking:


#1790 Kelpiecross

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 02:55

Is everybody slumped unconscious over their keyboards?    



#1791 GreenMachine

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 05:00

I have a suggestion to make.  First of all great work on the venturi Feliks!  But venturis are expensive to make, folding wings is hard (I always have difficulty getting the ends to meet neatly), so why not just make them as big wings, you know, KISS.  Like on a propeller aeroplanes, only bigger, much bigger.  Yuge, in fact.  Then stick them up in the air on a big pylon, and make the propellers windmill so they always face into the wind.  Then you have a nice rotary energy source available to ... say ... turn a generator.  I'll let the engineering types do the maths, but I reckon you could light a few bulbs with something like that.

 

What's that Skippy?  They make these already?!  Oh :(  So tell me again why venturis are being discussed?  On second thoughts don't, it's time for my afternoon nap, after I take the blue pill.



#1792 Feliks

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Posted 03 August 2019 - 02:14

Here is the thermodynamic problem .. We have in a box, in a vacuum is a set of thermal engines with generators ... Will this set be more efficient than it would be normally installed without a box?
  it's about how laws of thermodynamics work on the Equator, and how on the Pole.
Different temperatures
  on the Equator 40 degrees Celsius and at the Pole - 40 degrees Celsius also for efficiency and the layout of the engine will be important ...? 
 
thermodynamic.jpg
 
Andrew  :smoking:


#1793 gruntguru

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 22:11

Its very simple and well understood. The Carnot heat engine as the efficiency limit for all other heat engines tells you that if you increase the temperature of the heat source or reduce the temperature of the heat sink, you can potentially increase the efficiency.



#1794 Feliks

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 01:32

Its very simple and well understood. The Carnot heat engine as the efficiency limit for all other heat engines tells you that if you increase the temperature of the heat source or reduce the temperature of the heat sink, you can potentially increase the efficiency.

 
 
Unfortunately, the Carnot engine is only a fragment of the reality surrounding us related to heat engines .. But most try to explain it as a generally applicable law. In the meantime, for example, you can do a simple experiment at home with a "cold engine". Just pour cold water into the sink and put a screwed plastic drink bottle into it. We will see how it will change its shape due to the cooling of the air inside by cold water. Based on the change in its appearance, we see that also the engine would be possible on this principle. Everything is relative in physics .. But learning about heat omits many important physical quantities such as evaporation, freezing and most important - time. And theoreticians come to the conclusion that entropy is steadily increasing, but what about the scientific approach cannot be reconciled too much, because what will happen if this entropy is ever going to run out ?   ;)
I present here, probably the largest heat engine that a man can build (It is suitable for the Guinness book of records  ;) ) And theoretically, the pressure does not play any role in it, because the balloon from below is open .. the air heats up and the balloon can rise even at 5000 meters (record is 20,000 m), then the first balloon empties from warm air and fills the second, which thanks to the scrolling line to their tether will do electricity in the generator. Then the cycle repeats, from what we release at the top warm air and the bottom one, we fill it ... The old good principle and pressure does not play any role .. It's just a curiosity that not everything with heat is a Carnot engine ..
By the way, a hot air balloon is the longest-lasting machine in the air so far - the record is over 10 days ...
This shows because maybe there are other heat engines with higher efficiency than currently known .. Anyway. there is already a contribution to new thinking ...
 
balony.jpg
 
 
Andrew  :smoking:


#1795 gruntguru

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 04:50

The Carnot engine sets the efficiency limit for all heat engines - whether they operate using a working fluid and pressure or not. For example a peltier module can be used to produce electrical energy by utilising heat from a "hot" source and rejecting heat to a "cold" sink. This "solid state" heat engine is still governed by the Carnot limit.

 

The work done on your plastic bottle and energy from your balloon generator are also both governed by the Carnot efficiency limit.

 

As for entropy "running out" (lets say "reaching its maximum"), yes that will happen, but long after the sun has swallowed the earth (billions of years from now). In fact it will be long after the universe has gone cold. Try wrapping your head around this https://en.wikipedia...anding_universe

 

Interestingly - the balloon generator idea has a cousin - an aircraft that surfs the atmosphere by changing its buoyancy from positive to negative and back again and using its aerodynamic shape (eg wings) to provide forward propulsion - a glider that works coming down and going up.



#1796 Greg Locock

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 21:30

See also  https://en.wikipedia...derwater_glider



#1797 Feliks

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Posted 27 August 2019 - 00:27

:wave:   thank you Greg for the information .. I didn't know it ... I even dug it up:    https://en.wikipedia...ics#Wave_Glider  it's probably a bit like my wave energy in 2007 on this forum ..

But maybe also like my wing to the wind too ..  ;)    
 
Andrew  :wave:


#1798 Feliks

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Posted 03 October 2019 - 19:16

So here in slow motion you can see how the valve works in a four-stroke internal combustion engine .. You can see perfectly the "precision" of this mechanism .. It is best to watch it on the maximum screen .. You can see how the valve is when not pressed (and then there is a stroke of work with high pressure ) we are simply shaken by the effect of spring vibrations bouncing off the valve face and inertia .. At the bottom of this valve there is a "mushroom" which closes the way to the cylinder .. But since the valve stem dances so, the mushroom also makes such movements .. A since it performs these movements, even when it is "theoretically" closed, it really does not close the cylinder tightly, despite the fact that it is subject to a stroke pressure of up to 100 atmospheres. And we can imagine how much of this pressure escapes from the cylinder, on the effect of these "supposed" small, but very spoiling cylinder tightness, the movements of this mushroom .. Because at a pressure of 100 atmospheres, we can imagine that even a small gap, however, can even drop to 30 atmospheres make .. this mechanism is economical, and produced in virtually all internal combustion engines .. And complacency that the valve will be tight, because it presses it to the seat, high pressure in the cylinder is only the "wishful thinking" of the designers of such a system. because you can see that this is not true, because the valve sways and bounces off the socket, just when it should be closed ... This film helped me understand why my engine without these valves has such high efficiency and power, because how it receives in the cylinder, these 100 atmospheres, I will never lose my tightness all the time, closing the "valve", maybe like 2 atmospheres .. Well, but the amount of energy to use will be 3 times greater than in a traditional engine ... because 98 atmospheres .. And so on every cylinder .. adding to this even 40% more displacement, and twice as high achievable maximum revolutions, it also receives incredible power ten times greater than the original factory engine ... the load. Well, to find out about all this, I had to do [for 3 years of hard work a prototype of this engine, and say that it is so, although at first it did not seem to me at all, that so much is possible .. But it is thanks theoretically, to drive a Toddler (Fiat 126), with the same power as the original, you need a motor that will be smaller these ... 10 times .. But all this can not be determined by just watching the animations of my engine and criticizing me .. You need to spend your private million dollars to find out that this is the case ... And this film also shows that it is possible with all the imperfections of the current valve system ...
Even an indicator pressure test on an oscilloscope shows us that the pressure drops, but does not show us WHERE it escapes ...   :lol:
 
 
 
Andrew  :wave:


#1799 Feliks

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 12:48

On this film, you can imagine that on the other side of the valves there is the same disc as at the top and of course the wedges when it is to be closed, does the same at the bottom as this disc at the top of the springs
 
 
 
 
 
Andrew  :wave:

Edited by Feliks, 06 October 2019 - 12:49.


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#1800 Feliks

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 01:35

Well, here in the film you can see that the valves are almost not open at higher revolutions .. The same is seen this opening, the air that is to enter the cylinder ..
 
And the sound that this mechanism produces is huge .. You can take my word for it that the whole sound (95%) of the four-stroke engine comes from the timing mechanism ...
My engine has only 5% of this mechanical sound,
 
But on the exhale ... world record ...evil
 
 
Andrew  :wave:

Edited by Feliks, 07 October 2019 - 01:36.