22 replies to this topic

[MonzaDriver]

A big CIAO to all the TNF members,
I need an help about English / translation/meaning. ( I am Italian)
I just brought " The flying Scot" witch is surely amazing, like many other thing about and from Stewart.

In this DVD a part is about the aftermath of the Cevert's accident,
on the footage Colin Chapman walk in the proximity of Stewart's car right after he return to the boxes from the accident's place.
Then the same footage show the return to the pits also of Emerson Fittipaldi,
he exit the car, and Colin Chapman said a " phrase" to him, and I dont understand a single word about this phrase.
Mine it's not only a curiosity about translation, the fact is that Emerson,
acted like if Colin Chapman was not there right beside him, and could not care less about what he said to him.
I've never liked Colin Chapman and surely what I've read on him, in this wonderful forum,
put him under an unfourable light.
If someone who has seen the DVD coul kindly tell me what words he said ( in English)
I thanks him very much.
Maybe this is also a new topic for everyone.

Ciao to all the REAL keens of THE NOSTALGIA FORUM.
MonzaDriver.

[Twin Window]

Ciao Monza

I have not seen the DVD, but on a video I have Chapman says something like "they've got hot drinks in the Texaco caravan" when he steps out of the car.

I think Emerson's reaction is more to do with the shock of seeing Cevert's wreckage, rather than a snub to Chapman.

[Vitesse2]

Also filmed (by an unnamed sponsor of the Lotus team) - a conversation between Chapman and Peter Warr. Warr had just returned from race control.

'Who is it?' asked Chapman.
'Cevert', said Warr.
'Is it bad?'
'Very bad.'

Chapman turned, and then paused. 'Aw no!' he exclaimed to no one in particular. 'Bloody hell! Cevert ....'

Source: "Ken Tyrrell" by Maurice Hamilton, p187.

[Twin Window]

That's also on the vid I have. I think it's called 'If you're not winning, you're not trying'.

[Lec CRP1]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Ciao Monza

I have not seen the DVD, but on a video I have Chapman says something like "they've got hot drinks in the Texaco caravan" when he steps out of the car.

I think Emerson's reaction is more to do with the shock of seeing Cevert's wreckage, rather than a snub to Chapman.

"They're laying on some hot drinks at the Texaco caravan", actually. But close enough

That section of the DVD is one of the saddest things I've ever seen

[BorderReiver]

Originally posted by Vitesse2

'Who is it?' asked Chapman.
'Cevert', said Warr.
'Is it bad?'
'Very bad.'

Chapman turned, and then paused. 'Aw no!' he exclaimed to no one in particular. 'Bloody hell! Cevert ....'

This is the clip I've seen too. A pretty surreal and horrible moment.

[MonzaDriver]

Thanks so much, Twin Window, this was right the phrase.
It was the only sentence I did not understood on the whole DVD.
Thank you all.

OK !!! Like always on the Nostalgia forum the only effort in order to have answers
is to make the question !!!

Yes Vitesse, the part you are referring to is just before the phrase I asked an help,
thank you anyway.
Sorry members, you are so kind I cannot resist to go further in my questions.
I know there are maybe two or three threads about Cevert's accident, but my doubts are always there. Be patients.

Something maybe new:
Not so long ago in a small private television here in Italy,
Arturo Merzario tell that he feel himself involved, becasue it was coming out the pit at this moment
and Cevert overtake him to the left at an incredible pace and then jump on the curb and loose control.
If you imagine the esses this explanation really have sense.
But before this transmission I've never heard nothing about this version.

On this DVD Jackie Stewart is sure about the fact the Cevert done this esses in Third gear,
and his opinion is that a F1 was too much overreacting with the rev near the maximum,
he ( Stewart) was doing the esses in Fourth gear.
So he is sure about a "racing incident"
In another article I've read that maybe Francois, throw up inside the helmets and loose control.
Another time I've read that he has a bandaged ankle, not confortable for driving.
Maybe it's a case where reality and legend blend them togheter.
Another thing I always think:
Once Jody Scheckter say:
" I've never gone 100% on a racing car, because I was the first one to go near Francois, after the accident"
Jackie Stewart say on the DVD " I was disgusted by the distructiveness of the accident"

So my question is, but what really happened to this beloved driver?
I mean a truth based on your very well documented opinions.
I want to specify that my curiosity is very far from being morbid, I think that
knowing the truth is the very best tribute we could give to his memory.

MonzaDriver.

[BorderReiver]

My understanding of the accident is, for whatever reason, Cevert got out of shape in the esses and hit the barrier (I'm not sure which side) which launched him back across the circuit and into the other barriers upside down. The armco split and the Tyrrell rode along it before piling down the verge at the side of the track.

As for the reason I've heard much the same variety you have Monza, from vomitting in his own helmet to just trying far too hard. My best guess would be the latter, he was giving it some and the car got unbalanced, perhaps he clipped the kerbing on the way in. After that he was a passenger.

Whatever the cause it was a supreme waste of talent and life.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by MonzaDriver

In another article I've read that maybe Francois, throw up inside the helmets and loose control.
Another time I've read that he has a bandaged ankle, not confortable for driving.
Maybe it's a case where reality and legend blend them togheter.

I think both stories are true. IIRC someone posted here that they were on the scene shortly afterwards and confirmed the first (Dave Ware perhaps?).

As to the second, Cevert had crashed heavily in Canada and was unable to walk unassisted in the days afterwards. Stewart describes physically carrying him to see Niagara Falls a few days later. So it's very likely that his ankle was still strapped, although I wouldn't think it would have much bearing on the accident.

[marty8405]

I saw Francois walk down the pitlane that day, he was limping but not to an extreme. I believe he was just trying to hard, the place where he crashed is about the most unforgiving place you could imagine....armco very close to the track, no way to scrub off any speed and disaster happened. I once saw some pictures of the crash, one of the most awful experiences of my life and wish I never laid eyes on them.

[David Beard]

Just how many times does the Cevert accident have to be discussed on TNF?

[MonzaDriver]

Just how many times does the Cevert accident have to be discussed on TNF?

Sorry David, because I am the person who made the questions,
I feel myself involved so I reply to you, without any will to polemize.
A very good motive to discuss it another time is the beauty and the exceptionality of the replies.
For example the reply of Marty8405 is fantastic he was there that morning and saw Cevert limping but not to an extreme, and he saw some pictures that probably we dont.
I would like to know more from him.
There is no other way to have a testimony of this level than this forum.
Vitesse add another Stewart's testimony plus the one on the DVD.
BorderRiver share with us the surrealism of that footage, and if you think about it,
you could see it 100 times and the surrealism it's always present.
I hope that I've wrote something new about Merzario's testimony.
I have another point to add, many times there is more truths inside a single thread on this forum,
than inside an entire collection of racing magazine.
I learnt for example that here in Italy, in the past, beside Ferrari, the others protagonists
of the racing scenary, was treated with a lot of superficiality from the media.
To some extent we relive some moments because we have so much more informations,
from all over the world, than in the past.
An we could overcome the journalist' s opinions, in many cases not sincere.
I have introduced another time the Cevert's mishap, I know, but linked with the passion
and the sincerity of the replies, it's a tribute to this charming and unfortunate driver.

CIAO
MonzaDriver.

[Barry Lake]

I agree wholeheartedly, MonzaDriver.

It is better to know the truth than to have false legends circulating for ever more.

Surely one of the major purposes of The Nostalgia Forum is to search for the truth. It is certainly the aspect of this wonderful forum that I admire most.

And refusing to talk about Cevert's crash won't bring him back.

[philippe7]

Yes, but how could we ever know the truth ? What we know for sure is that this was definitely the worst place at Watkin's Glen for someone to lose control , and that once the accident was underway there were big chances that it would end up badly. But why the loss of control ? There is no film of the accident that could shed a light...and although the general feeling is "driver's error" , Jean-Pierre Beltoise for instance always said that although it was a possibility, he didn't accept people saying it was "surely" the cause because something may have broken, or a tyre deflated, but that the state of the car was such that there was no way to trace a mechanical failure .

I have realised since discovering TNF that Cevert's death had a specific impact on many people my age - and not only french , so it's nothing to do with nationality. For various reasons, even in those years when many drivers were lost on a regular basis, it seems it caused a special shock. Maybe the violence and damage of the crash made people realise that fire , who was the biggest fear then, -and rightly so, since it was a major factor in the deaths of Courage, Williamson, Siffert, Rodriguez, Schlesser, Bandini, Giunti, to name but a few - was not the only danger in racing, and that Armco was maybe not the universal medicine that it was once thought to be...Well, anyway, .....

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Barry Lake


And refusing to talk about Cevert's crash won't bring him back.

Of course not...and that has certainly not been the case on TNF. Try these for starters...

http://forums.atlasf...ighlight=cevert
http://forums.atlasf...ighlight=cevert

[Dave Ware]

IIRC someone posted here that they were on the scene shortly afterwards and confirmed the first (Dave Ware perhaps?).

I was not there that day. Glad I wasn't. It might have been David Kane.

As to the second, Cevert had crashed heavily in Canada and was unable to walk unassisted in the days afterwards.

I did witness that accident in Canada and Cevert's exit from the car (to approach Scheckter and shake his fist in anger.) It was clear, even from far away, that his feet or ankles were giving him pain.

Cevert's autobiograpy indicates that his ankles were still not fully healed on the morning of his last accident.

I had not known about Arturo Merzario's feelings. Thank you, MonzaDriver.

I had also now known about Jody's declaration that after the accident he had never driven 100% after witnessing the accident. On another thread on this forum people observed that Scheckter's driving after joining Tyrrell was less spirited than before and speculated that perhaps Ken Tyrrell did too good a job in calming Scheckter down, but perhaps it was the Cevert accident that did it.

I have seen the Peter Warr/Colin Chapman exchange on a film called "Champions Forever", also known as "The Quick and the Dead." It was on Speedvision a couple of years ago. I'm sure it's for sale somewhere.

Well said, Barry.

I remember reading Rob Walker's USGP report for Road & Track at the time. He was in the pits with Jacky Ickx and Jacky said "Francois et mort." Jacky knew because no one at the crash scene was doing anything.

I have realised since discovering TNF that Cevert's death had a specific impact on many people my age - and not only french , so it's nothing to do with nationality. For various reasons, even in those years when many drivers were lost on a regular basis, it seems it caused a special shock.

I have felt the same way. There is something special about Francois. Even though I'm an American, the deaths of Revson and Donahue weren't and aren't quite as hard to deal with.

A thoughtful, sensitive thread. Thanks, all.

Dave

[Marc]

François, September 73 after Canadian GP. Photo Helen Stewart. Document: Automobile Historique n°13

[ALE67]

Hello everybody!
I'm new to the fantastic BB, and I'd like to add something to this sad accident, that has obsessioned me since years.
Mr. Jackie Stewart in person (the last of Gentlemen, for sure) kindly faxed me, some years ago, writing that François spun off because he took the esses in a lower gear than him (I think 3th instead of 4th), and the short wheel-based Tyrrell 006 in that moment reacted abruptly and everything was over...
But what I'd never known is: everyone always took for granted that François could not be saved; he had not even medical support at all! Are we sure about that? In which condition was his body? I never believed to this common knowing. Think about my idol, Gilles Villeneuve: it was clearly dead on the spot, but the medical team tried the impossible, anyway.
I am immediately sorry if my words may offend someone, but I don't mean it at all, let alone François memory.
I thank you anyone of you for your help and support
Alessandro

[Twin Window]

Welcome to TNF, Alessandro

The reason poor Cevert wasn't proffered any real assistance (a man did nominally check for a pulse, I think) was that he'd been cut in half at the waist by the Armco.

[fuz]

Sadly I stumbled across a series of pictures, some of which contained images of the crash itself, which I never knew existed. All I can say really is that Twinny is right about what happened, there was one picture with a man checking for a pulse with Cevert still stapped into the car and obviously dead, really quite horrific and images I would never wish to see again.

[ALE67]

Hello guys, and thank you for your incredibly fast replies!
Yes Fuz, I saw those pictures (I think they are the same circulating here and there on the web) and even if I found them heart wrenching, I always had a double feeling about them: to me, they don't add a thing to my search, since they are a little blurry and, above all, I'm not interested in ghoulish anyway, even more if I think to François family.
Somebody, also in Autosprint magazine of that period, talked about the Jody Scheckter reaction, that almost changed itself the boy Jody (remember Castellet and Silverstone 73) in a man (79 Ferrari title).
I'm interested the most in some reports of the drivers or mashals coming along the place of the crash as, I repeat myself, I can't get out of my mind the feeling that something could be done.
Thank you, Alessandro

[Lec CRP1]

A while back, I typed out an extract from Ken Tyrrell - the Authorised Biograhpy by Maurice Hamilton about Cevert's death :

http://www.planet-cu...o.uk/cevert.htm

I've seen the accident photos as well, and I was grateful. Grateful for the fact that they were in black and white.

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Twin Window
The reason poor Cevert wasn't proffered any real assistance (a man did nominally check for a pulse, I think) was that he'd been cut in half at the waist by the Armco.

That seems to just about cover it. Perhaps some people might like to give this multi threaded, over-aired subject a bit of a rest now.