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March 707-01


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#1 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 15:18

Hi all,

this afternoon I was browsing round the net searching for technical specifications of the March 707. I didn't find much, but I did come across some other very interesting info, particularly in this old thread:

http://forums.atlasf...light=march 707

Apparantly, only three 707s were built, one of which was sold to Helmut Kelleners for use in the 1970 Interserie championship. Now the reason I'm intererested in this particular car, is that Kelleners also entered it for the 1970 AvD-SCM-Rundstrecken-Rennen, held on the Nürburgring Südschleife, and set the all-time laprecord with it.

Until this afternoon, I had no idea what happened to Kelleners car. However, it apparantly still exists! According to Jeremy Jackson in the thread mentioned above (if you read this, thanks!) Kelleners brought the 707-01 up to 717 specification for the 1971 season.

Then there's a big gap in its history. It was at some point brought back to 707 spec, and raced in the Orwell-Supersportscup until as recently as 2003 by Geoff Farmer.

Questions:

1. It is confirmed that Farmer's car is one and the same as Kellener's? In other words:

this car is the same as this --URL::165d9b3227d3925ca26ad300fd787174-- car car? (click to see image. Sources: Rally Racing and orwell-supersportscup.com).

2. What happened with the car between its 717 incarnation and the moment Farmer purchased it?
3. Does anyone have any technical details for the 707? As far as its power output is concerned, I've seen several figures mentioned, ranging from 560 bhp to 750 bhp.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

- Rob

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#2 Keir

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 16:07

Amon's 707 used an 8 liter Chevy which put out in the area of 750HP, the main problem with this car was it's weight and size!! It was one of the widest cars in the Can Am at the time!!

#3 Rob Ryder

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 19:32

Originally posted by Keir
Amon's 707 used an 8 liter Chevy which put out in the area of 750HP, the main problem with this car was it's weight and size!! It was one of the widest cars in the Can Am at the time!!

Yeh, I remember Helmut Kelleners trying to sqeeze his 707 through the chicane at Croft during the 1970 Interserie race... interesting to say the least, but an awesome sight down Railway Straight :)

#4 Jeremy Jackson

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 21:50

I was at Croft (as a 12 year old) that day too!

Autosport's 1970 Can-Am preview quoted the 707's 494ci engine as 720 bhp and weighing 1460 lbs less fuel. It's quoted width was 93 inches...

Farmer's car had the appropriate chassis plate on when I saw it, adn it has been quoted in various articles/reports as the ex Kelleners car. Stefan Sklenar raced it in 717 form (or at least he turned up to a few races, he didn't qualify for most of them!) in Interserie in 1972 & 1973. after that, not sure where it went.

#5 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 11:26

Jeremy, thanks for replying, I was kinda hoping you would.

Short overview of what's known so far:

1970: Kelleners drives the 707-01 in the Interserie
1971: Car updated to 717 specifications, again driven by Kelleners in the Interserie
1972 & 1973: Still in 717 spec, raced by Stefan Sklenar in the Interserie
1973: Brought back to 707 spec (?), whereabouts after 1973 unknown.

1995:

According to this site, the car was purchased by Chris Chiles in 1995. The car was rebuild (including a new engine), and raced by Chiles in the I.S.C from 1996.

2002: The 717 is entered in the Orwell-Supersportcup by R. Dodkins Motorsport, several guestdrivers race it as well.
2003: Car purchased by Geoff Farmer, who raced it in the Orwell-Supersportcup until late 2003. Again entered as 717.

Some questions:

1. Was the 707-01 the only 707 brought to 717 spec?
2. Is it likely replica's of the 707 were built?
3. Did the Interserie 707 differ from the one used by Amon in CanAm in any way?

#6 Jeremy Jackson

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 14:03

Rob,
Thanks for the link, didn't know if it went back to 707 spec as early as '73.

BTW, it still carried "717-1" chassis ID in 2003

Don't believe there was any difference betwen Kelleners and Amon's cars, apart from engine size

#7 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 12:56

I've found an answer to the question I asked earlier: the 707-01 was indeed the only one brought to 717 spec.

That means only one 717 ever existed. Pictures of it are extremely rare, but here is one of Kelleners's 717-01 in 1971:

http://home.arcor.de..._2/march717.jpg

I found another pic of it at a great site, but I lost the link and search engines can't find it :(

Now as you know the car was brought back to 707 spec at one point, but the Chiles/Farmer car obviously has the 707 nose, so I suspect the chassis ID plate (which still says 717-01) was simply left on even after the change back to 707.

I will add a page with info on Kelleners, his March 707, and the Rundstreckenrennen of 1970 to my site soon.

#8 Udo K.

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 21:05

Rob, I think you know my series of photos I took of the car at the above mentioned race on the Südschleife. For those, who have not seen a picture from this race:

Posted Image

#9 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 22:00

Originally posted by Rob Semmeling
That means only one 717 ever existed. Pictures of it are extremely rare, but here is one of Kelleners's 717-01 in 1971:

http://home.arcor.de..._2/march717.jpg

I found another pic of it at a great site, but I lost the link and search engines can't find it :(


I found it again! Took me the whole day, but it's worth it.

Here it is:

http://www.thegaffer..._inter_1971.jpg

Bookmark this site, it's great:

http://www.thegaffer...t/cars/cars.php


@Udo: yes, your pictures are on my site, they're great! BTW, I searched the forum this afternoon, and I came across an old thread where you posted some pictures you took of Teddy Pilette during the 1971 300 km. Rennen. Got any more of those? Teddy drove a McLaren M8C that race, what a great car that is!

#10 vintagerpm

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 16:25

Two more pictures of the Kelleners car, as it looked at Road America in 1996:
http://www.vintagerpm.com/ra30p27.jpg

#11 Reyna

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 16:52

More 717 pictures:

Imola, 2/5/71

--URL::267aafa871789a40dc44ddaec7f82cc4-- Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image
Source: Automodelisme



Zolder, 6/6/71

Posted Image
Source: "Zolder Circuit, 25 years"



Hockenheim, 4/7/71

Posted Image
Source: Rallye Racing



Imola, 12/9/71

Posted Image
Source: Autosprint



Hockenheim, 3/10/71

Posted Image
Source: Autosprint

#12 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 18:06

Holy gunsmoke, gorgeous pics there! Thanks a bunch! Is that car a beauty or what?

You wouldn't happen to have any more of the car in 1970 707 spec?

#13 Keir

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 14:25

Shockingly, I have but one good shot of Amon in his MARCH 707!!

#14 Gokart Mozart

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 16:08

Dear Fellow TNF'ers,

I purchased a March 707 Can-Am press kit about a week ago off of ebay. Once it comes in I'll scan everything that appears to be informative for your research.

Best Wishes! :wave:

Respectfully,

Jacques N. Dresang
www.miniwurx.com

#15 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 16:14

Great! Looking forward already :up:

#16 dolomite

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 01:02

I don't know which chassis it is, but this car was campaigned by Ted Williams in the Super Sports series in Europe in the early 1980s. I took these photos at Silverstone (British GP support race) in 1983 and 1985.

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#17 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 13:54

According to Jeremy, Ted Wiliams raced the 707-03 (the spare chassis) in historic races in the early 1980s.

The March 707-03 is currently displayed at the Rosso-Bianco museum in Germany. The ex-Amon car, the 707-02 is currently being auctioned, apparantly:

http://www.tillackco...s/1970march707/


The ex-Kelleners car, the 707-01, was raced in the Orwell series in 2004, I guess it's likely it will be continued to race in 2005.

#18 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 15:04

Btw, my small tribute page to Kelleners and his March is up:

http://www.8200rpm.c...ids/sudschleife

#19 Udo K.

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 10:10

Originally posted by Rob Semmeling
Btw, my small tribute page to Kelleners and his March is up:

http://www.8200rpm.c...ids/sudschleife


Just a little detail, Rob, concerning the results:

6. Alexander Nolte Porsche 908.01
7. David Farnell Lola-Ford T210
8. Hans Schultze-Schwering Lola-Ford T210

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#20 Bengt

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 14:14

If David Farnell wasn't 5th as Semmeling is saying, then who is?

#21 Udo K.

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 23:17

sorry, my mistake:
Nolte was FIFTH and Farnell Sixth.

#22 Gokart Mozart

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Posted 14 January 2005 - 01:39

Here....finally(!) is the info from the 707 presskit for you all. :wave:

All images are courtesy of the STP Corporation, Des Plaines, Illinois 60018

Enjoy!

Jacques N. Dresang

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#23 Keir

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Posted 14 January 2005 - 14:33

Nice looking press kit!!

#24 Gokart Mozart

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 01:16

Keir,

I'd say, for the same company who gave us the 721X! :lol:

Unfortunetly, this is all I have of the car, Christopher Racer on the other hand... ;)

Cheers,

Jacques N. Dresang

"And the rest, as they say, is history" - David Hobbs

#25 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 20 January 2005 - 15:31

I was recently contacted by the current co-owner of the March 707-01, Lionel Dodkins. He gave me some very interesting info on the car's history. It turns out there were quite a few errors on the page I devoted to the car, but everything has been fixed.

See my website http://sudschleife.8200rpm.com for a full and correct history of the March 707-01.

- Rob

p.s. Thank you Jacques, those are wonderful scans.

#26 Gokart Mozart

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Posted 20 January 2005 - 19:46

From one March fan to another, not a problem Rob! :wave:

Cheers,

Jacques N. Dresang
www.miniwurx.com