117 replies to this topic

[petefenelon]

The "Eagle" (otherwise known as the Corvette GTP fitted with a home-made engine that made lots of strange clanking and farting noises, could be rejigged with different cranks and rods at any size between about 9 and 11 litres, and was condemned as being "the wrong shape" by the ACO scrutes) is up for sale....

http://www.4-lesco.c.../car4sale6.html

The sad thing is someone will probably restore this as a Corvette GTP rather than the "Eagle". Names I associate with it - Paul Canary (who I think funded the whole sorry farrago), John Greenwood (of Corvette fame in the 70s?), Dennis Kazmerowski....

I think we should launch a campaign to preserve this..... and the Norma-MGN.....


(link found on dailysportscar.com, memories dredged up from inside my own head!)

Anyone remember any more about these guys? All I really remember is the car was huge, slow and unreliable - and the engine capacity changed during qualifying! Just how serious were they?

[MCS]

Originally posted by petefenelon
The "Eagle" (otherwise known as the Corvette GTP fitted with a home-made engine that made lots of strange clanking and farting noises, could be rejigged with different cranks and rods at any size between about 9 and 11 litres, and was condemned as being "the wrong shape" by the ACO scrutes) is up for sale....

http://www.4-lesco.c.../car4sale6.html

The sad thing is someone will probably restore this as a Corvette GTP rather than the "Eagle". Names I associate with it - Paul Canary (who I think funded the whole sorry farrago), John Greenwood (of Corvette fame in the 70s?), Dennis Kazmerowski....

I think we should launch a campaign to preserve this..... and the Norma-MGN.....


(link found on dailysportscar.com, memories dredged up from inside my own head!)

Anyone remember any more about these guys? All I really remember is the car was huge, slow and unreliable - and the engine capacity changed during qualifying! Just how serious were they?

Don't remember this at all Pete, but it quotes "driven by Villeneuve, Goodyear, Hobbs"
Is this true?

Mark

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by MCS


Don't remember this at all Pete, but it quotes "driven by Villeneuve, Goodyear, Hobbs"
Is this true?

Mark

Certainly not in its incarnation as an "Eagle", but when it was a Corvette GTP.....

(Villeneuve is "Oncle Jacques" in this case - Gilles' brother, who was moderately good in CART and single-seat Can-Am but never qualified for a GP, not either of the GP-winning Villeneuves).

[MCS]

Originally posted by petefenelon


Certainly not in its incarnation as an "Eagle", but when it was a Corvette GTP.....

(Villeneuve is "Oncle Jacques" in this case - Gilles' brother, who was moderately good in CART and single-seat Can-Am but never qualified for a GP, not either of the GP-winning Villeneuves).

No, no, guessed it was "Oncle Jacques"

I followed IMSA closely late eighties/early nineties and simply don't remember the car

(Not long now...)

Mark

[petefenelon]

According to:

http://www.gt1da.com...=ST&f=12&t=1920

Peerless Racing have traced its history:

Peerless Budweiser, Applicon Bravo Corvette
IMSA GTP Series Drivers: Jack Baldwin/David Hobbs/Jacques Villeneuve/Scott Goodyear
Car Chevrolet Lola Corvette GTP V 8 Lola Corvette Chassis #10
Sold to Dennis Kazmerowski, maintained by Jay Drake
Converted to Schubeck Eagle engine and practiced at LeMans

The last line of their potted history is interesting though:

Embroiled in ownership dispute and last reported hidden in Canada

So yes - it's been driven by the guys they claim in its "first incarnation". Although things seem to have got interesting later on ;)

Who's Schubeck? That name doesn't ring a bell -- the guy who designed the engine?

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by MCS


No, no, guessed it was "Oncle Jacques"

I followed IMSA closely late eighties/early nineties and simply don't remember the car

(Not long now...)

Mark

It never ran in that guise in IMSA - the only (IIRC) time it appeared in that form was Le Mans 1990.

[MCS]

Originally posted by petefenelon
Who's Schubeck? That name doesn't ring a bell -- the guy who designed the engine?

It would seem so. Type "Schubeck Eagle engine" into Google and there's loads of stuff...

Mark

[KarlOakie Research]

Actually, the Peerless Racing or Peerless Automotive chassis was the sole example of the Type 8810, the chassis being numbered 'HU8810/01' and entered at Le Mans 1990 as the "Eagle 700"....

When Peerless ran the 'HU8810/01' it carried No. 76 and was white with red trim.

[Dennis Hockenbury]

The IMSA Corvette GTP was run in the late 1980's, but as already suggested, not in the form in the photos.



I saw the IMSA version run several times and it was quick, but not as fast as the Jaguar or the Nissan GTP competing at the same time. It was run by Sarel van der Merwe and Doc Bundy and was constructed using a Lola chassis if I recall correctly.

I have some photos of the car somewhere.....

[MCS]

Originally posted by Dennis Hockenbury
The IMSA Corvette GTP was run in the late 1980's, but as already suggested, not in the form in the photos.

I saw the IMSA version run several times and it was quick, but not as fast as the Jaguar or the Nissan GTP competing at the same time. It was run by Sarel van der Merwe and Doc Bundy and was constructed using a Lola chassis if I recall correctly.

Ah, hah, thanks Dennis...the mist is disappearing...

Mark

[KarlOakie Research]

Actually, as could be expected, there were several of the Hendrick Motorsports Corvette GTP cars which carried No. 52 -- 'HU710/01' which was replaced by 'HU8610/01' and 'HU8610/02' which usually ran as No. 22.

[Dennis Hockenbury]

Originally posted by KarlOakie Research
Actually, as could be expected, there were several of the Hendrick Motorsports Corvette GTP cars which carried No. 52 -- 'HU710/01' which was replaced by 'HU8610/01' and 'HU8610/02' which usually ran as No. 22.

Your data is consistent with my notes Karl/Don. Darn, how I miss those IMSA GTP races, they were a blast to attend.

[RTH]

Talking of ugly Group C cars anyone remember the original ADA which was I think originally a Lola probably a Group 6 car with a home made roof and was at the time widely known as the "Morris Minor " this was I suppose the early 80's I wonder if it still exists ?

[TheStranger]

The De Cadenet Lola? Someone actually ran one of those in IMSA in 1994 - good Lord that was bad looking.

There's a photo of it at Racingsportscars.com somewhere...

[ensign14]

Worst ever Group C car? Was the Mig a Group C or had the category gone by then?

How about that ROC-Chevron thing with the wheelspats that did about 3 laps per hour at Le Mans in 1987 and was rejected by the scrutes the following year for being a red blob?

And the GKW that never raced? Has anyone any photos of that?

BTW, how did Canary get away with calling a car an Eagle? Seems to me like a straightforward case of trademark infringement.

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by RTH
Talking of ugly Group C cars anyone remember the original ADA which was I think originally a Lola probably a Group 6 car with a home made roof and was at the time widely known as the "Morris Minor " this was I suppose the early 80's I wonder if it still exists ?

Nothing, but nothing, rivals the 1988 TJ-ROC entered at Le Mans by Jose Thibault . A Chevron B36 of doubtful parentage (sorry chassis number never known) clothed in cast-off body panels from the 1984 Stehmo BMW. Hand painted in red with a brown velveteen interior. Crudely constructed spats fore and aft covered the yellow wheels to give it an advantage over the Jags and Saubers...

It had somehow qualified in 1987 (a Bugatti circuit shortcut?) but, overcome by self embarrasment, had then buried itself in the gravel at Indianapolis.

Don't let anyone tell you that the ACO scrutineers do not have a sense of humour. They fell about laughing when it reappeared in 1988 and then promptly failed it...

[marty8405]

This car did run in IMSA, I saw it at Watkins Glen in 1989 I believe. My programs and photos aren't handy but I will post as soon as I find the info. Hobbs was one of the drivers.

Rich

[marty8405]

Just found my info.....car 76 entered by Peerless Corvette driven by Uncle Jacque and Scott Goodyear, Camel Continental Watkins Glen 1989.

[KarlOakie Research]

Rich, it never ran IMSA in the configuration that it wound up in at Le Mans. When it was run by Peerless it was a pukka GTP car and certainly not the "Eagle 700." As far as Group C goes, thank God for IMSA in my opinon since John Bishop got it Right, in my opinion. However, FISA was actively trying to kill off any competiton to F1 and with Group C they did a good job of it.

[Mac Lark]

Originally posted by KarlOakie Research
As far as Group C goes, thank God for IMSA in my opinon since John Bishop got it Right, in my opinion.

I agree - how many different manufacturers had competitive cars?

Answer - lots

[Rainer Nyberg]

The Eagle from "Eagle Performance" was of course a very thinly disguised (Lola built chassis T700-HU02) Corvette GTP.

It was the outrageous engine that intrigued people.

The old slogan "Nothing beats cubic inches" certainly could be applied here!
But in fact the truck sized engine never ran properly during the entire Le Mans weekend, and was way off the pace.

Myself, I have always had a soft spot for these kinds of hopeless entries, so hopefully this chassis will remain an "Eagle"!

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg

It was the outrageous engine that intrigued people.

The old slogan "Nothing beats cubic inches" certainly could be applied here!
But in fact the truck sized engine never ran properly during the entire Le Mans weekend, and was way off the pace.

Myself, I have always had a soft spot for these kinds of hopeless entries, so hopefully this chassis will remain an "Eagle"!

Absolutely.... although in this case virtually everything beat cubic inches. File with the MiG as a great failure of the 90s?;)

[Nordic]

The MiG was not such a great failure, at the PQ the car ran quite well. it was only when the team ditched the Lambo engine in favor of something (can't recal what now) else that caused the car to flex to such a degree it was not possible to change gear!
Heres a piccy I took of the pair, maybe the only 2 ever built, hiding out in a Spice garage at Le Mans.

http://rupert8766.fo...t/p2809465.html

Regards the 'engine' in the Eagle, was it not designed for a boat?

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Nordic
The MiG was not such a great failure, at the PQ the car ran quite well. it was only when the team ditched the Lambo engine in favor of something (can't recal what now) else that caused the car to flex to such a degree it was not possible to change gear!
Heres a piccy I took of the pair, maybe the only 2 ever built, hiding out in a Spice garage at Le Mans.

http://rupert8766.fo...t/p2809465.html

Regards the 'engine' in the Eagle, was it not designed for a boat?

The MiG was a bit of a mongrel - based on the Monte Carlo Centenaire (to celebrate the centenary of the AC de Monaco) and first surfaced at the Le Mans test day with a Lamborghini V12, when that broke it acquired a Motori Moderni flat-12 of the kind that Minardi (perhaps fortunately) didn't take up and that Coloni and Subaru were shafted by....

Last I'd heard Koenigsegg were briefly looking at that engine, but their website these days says their cars are V8s.

Fulvio Ballabio was involved with the Monte Carlo "supercar", and also the Monaco F3000 car - which was little more than the old F1 Dywa..... and about as successful!

It's amusing how at the wilder periphery of the racing scene the same faces keep turning up ;)


The general spec of the Eagle engine certainly looks about right for powerboat racing (although I understand that 8-litre Lamborghini V12s are the Done Thing on the water these days); the one Group C engine I know for sure was designed for boats was the 5.8l Aero Bonner V6 that was occasionally used in the ADA in the British C2 series. - we've
discussed this engine elsewhere...

[2F-001]

Originally posted by petefenelon
[B ... and the engine capacity changed during qualifying![/B]

Now that could be interesting... as you exit Tertre Rouge, cylinders and pistons expand concentrically like one of those clever dining tables, the con-rods telescope out and your revvy little 9-litre screamer turns into a straightline gobbling 11-litre dragster.
Sorry, I'll get back to work...

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by 2F-001

Now that could be interesting... as you exit Tertre Rouge, cylinders and pistons expand concentrically like one of those clever dining tables, the con-rods telescope out and your revvy little 9-litre screamer turns into a straightline gobbling 11-litre dragster.
Sorry, I'll get back to work...

I think they rebuilt between sessions, if I recall correctly it started off as a tad over 11 and made its final qualifying run at 10.6 litres!

Variable length conrods..... hmmmmm.... well if you can do variable-length induction trumpets and variable cam-timing and "dynamic displacement" by cutting off the ignition to cylinders..... why not variable-length conrods! ?;););) -- that'd be a "demon tweak" in any form of racing with capacity restrictions, wouldn't it? -- build an ostensibly low-compression engine with the rods telescoped shut and then press the magic button on the start line to extend the rods..... press it again to pull them back in. All very Wacky Racers. And I bet Smokey Yunick did it in real life and went to the grave uncredited for it -- you don't think he told us all his cheats in his autobiography?;)

[Muzza]

Originally posted by RTH
Talking of ugly Group C cars anyone remember the original ADA which was I think originally a Lola probably a Group 6 car with a home made roof and was at the time widely known as the "Morris Minor " this was I suppose the early 80's I wonder if it still exists ?

The 1986 ADA? I actually liked it...

(but I admit, it is a freaking bizarre beast)

[fausto]

No, thei are referring to the 82-84 Ada 01...
http://www.racingspo...3-06-19-065.jpg

[Muzza]

Originally posted by fausto
No, thei are referring to the 82-84 Ada 01...
http://www.racingspo...3-06-19-065.jpg

Grazie, Fausto,


I had forgotten this one. Man, this thing is indeed horrendous, and it looks terribly finished. At least the mechanics' apparel is colour-coordinated. Some of the bottom-of-the-barrell teams that raced at Le Mans in the 1980s and 1990s did not even sport that (as the Noël del Bello team, the Deboras, etc., where they looked like a bunch of guys dressed for a post-barbecue football pitch).

One must be very macho to drive such a thing down Mulsanne, being overtaken by 956s at the Kink...

Is it my eye or the front fairings have a certain Nimrod heritage? Anyway, between this one and the 1986 model, the folks at ADA did like rather bizarre cars...

[dretceterini]

I have to vote for the TJ-ROC too...what a piece of junk....but what is the connection with ROC, who I thought was basically involved with Simcas?

[fausto]

They used an enlarged version of the Simca-derived ROC 2 litre engine, speaking of Roc they came back at Le Mans in 1991 with the ROC 001 a neat Cosworth 3.5 powered car (born as the SGR, designed by Chuck Graemiger/Cheetah).

The ADA 01 was sold to Jugoslavia, Francy Jerancic bought it and installed an atmo Porsche flat 6
and later a Mazda, and contested some Interserie races.

[doc540]

All very informative. I had no idea a Trabant design had ever entered LeMans.

[biercemountain]

Originally posted by fausto
No, thei are referring to the 82-84 Ada 01...
http://www.racingspo...3-06-19-065.jpg

That car got hit with a proverbial "ugly stick".

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by dretceterini
I have to vote for the TJ-ROC too...what a piece of junk....but what is the connection with ROC, who I thought was basically involved with Simcas?

ROC = Chrysler engines (Racing Organisation Course). The TJ ROC had a 2.4 Litre normally aspirated Chrysler lump.

The original ADA was a car of extreme beauty when compared to the TJ.

I have wrestled with my conscience but, in the interest of research, will now post a photo of this Gallic machine. Please note that a) you should ensure that your children/pets do not view this thread at any time b) you will probably need to switch your internet content settings to their most liberal limits to allow access to this image and c) I will not accept responsibility for any physical or emotional harm that downloading this image may cause :




..I did warn you.

[xflow7]

Originally posted by biercemountain


That car got hit with a proverbial "ugly stick".

Uhhm... Anyone else think it looks kind of like a Daytona Protoype?

I still think those new DP cars are the ugliest damn excuses for prototype racers ever. Period.

[Twin Window]

I agree - it does resemble a Daytona Prototype. And they're both visually horrible!

Not GpC, granted, but one of the shoddiest Le Mans cars of recent times was that Camaro pile of junk - the one I witnessed at first hand on the Mulsanne losing most of the rivets which were holding it's bodywork in place!

[JacnGille]

Originally posted by xflow7
I still think those new DP cars are the ugliest damn excuses for prototype racers ever. Period.

Join the club!;)

[Kerb Bouncer]

This thread reminds me of the unlikeliest saloon racers wherein a washing machine-like car nearly caused me to lose control of certain bodily functions.

However, if the Eagle were reconstituted engine and all, would it be a reconstruction, a replica, or simply a symbol of something or other.

Other nominations in the this class?

Mike

[Dennis Hockenbury]

All of this IMSA talk prompted a bit of googling on my part, and I was somewhat surprised (but should not be) to learn that the 1988 Nissan GTP ZX-T Chassis #8803 is still being rebuilt and remains for sale from what was left of Bob Akin's fatal crash.

The Nissan's were always a blast to watch, but Geoff Brabham told me once just how difficult it was to drive...I don't think I would want to give it a go.

[Muzza]

Hello, Dennis,

I understood that Bob Akin's Nissan was being rebuilt by his team (and family) as a tribute to him, not for sale.

Bob's death, by the way, was one of those things that "we just could not believe it happened". Few times I was so shocked upon hearing the news of an accident.

Regards,


Muzza

[TheStranger]

Originally posted by Muzza
Hello, Dennis,

I understood that Bob Akin's Nissan was being rebuilt by his team (and family) as a tribute to him, not for sale.

Actually, according to 962.com, it's available for purchase for $550K, with the intention (in honor of Bob) that the new buyer races it starting in the 2005 historics season.

http://www.962.com/o...tp_zx/index.htm

[Mallory Dan]

Originally posted by biercemountain


That car got hit with a proverbial "ugly stick".

Purely from memory, wasn't it uglier than that in its early days, ie 1982. IIRC the greenhouse was even more prominent than on this photo.

As to 'Nimrod similarities' they were both vaguely based around Lola T380 parts, so I guess there is some resemblance.

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by Mallory Dan


Purely from memory, wasn't it uglier than that in its early days, ie 1982. IIRC the greenhouse was even more prominent than on this photo.

As to 'Nimrod similarities' they were both vaguely based around Lola T380 parts, so I guess there is some resemblance.

Surely the ADA was more de Cadenet Lola rather than Lola Lola (if you see what I mean).

[petefenelon]

If we're talking ugly sports cars, the horrid Pegasus-BMW that lurked around the fringes of the IMSA WSC scene in the States has to be pretty near the top of the list - it started life as a Lotus Esprit.... and then Bad Things happened to it.... like.... it was decapitated...... and bewinged..... and heavily 'caged!

Racingsportscars to the rescue again - Road America 1993.....

http://www.racingspo...3-07-11-046.jpg


The contemporaneous Mantac-Chevy looks equally odd

http://www.racingspo...3-07-11-018.jpg

[petefenelon]

It seems that the Mantac is an update of an older chassis - at Columbus in 1986 it seemed to be running in IMSA's little-known hovercraft class ;) (actually, in 'Lights).

Racingsportscars.com again:

http://www.racingspo...6-10-05-033.jpg

[Teapot]

I was about to post the Mantac pic taken at Colombus but you've anticipated me...

I've never seen this car in side elevation...the words elude me!

Anyway...I posted the following pictures (again from Racingsportscars.com) some months ago in the thread about side engined cars...and I think we have a real winner for the coveted "Hideous racing car of the century Contest"...the Adam Escort Can-Am, here depicted in its staggering handsomeness at Mosport, in 1983

http://www.racingspo...3-06-05-010.jpg

Copyright: Chris Mann


http://www.racingspo...3-06-05-bg4.jpg

Copyright: Bugeye

To tell the truth, not many among the Can-Am cars of the early 80s were pleasant to the eye...but few reached such a goal in term of Dadaism applied to motor racing!

[TheStranger]

While the Escort Radar Warning car was truly mediocre "abstract art," the following car defined artlessness:

Photo: Chris Mann

http://www.racingspo...5-06-02-015.jpg

Take one pathetic Champcar chassis (the Longhorn, which never won a race - despite some design work from Williams engineers), one backmarker (Bill Tempero, future founder of the American Indycar Series vintage-car league) and add cheap fenders, and voila, INSTANT CAN AM PART DEUX VEHICLE!



(Oh, and yeah, Racingsportscars.com again to the rescue - from the 1985 Mosport event.)

[Twin Window]

Good grief! That black, er... thing is horrendous!

[bill moffat]

..the wonders of TNF.

You think you've seen it all and know atleast some of it, and then some good fellow posts something that is so uniquely blood-curdlingly outrageous as the Escort Can Am.

2 immediate thoughts entered my head, 1) side impact protection and 2) throttle linkage mechanism.

[Jeremy Jackson]

Originally posted by bill moffat


Surely the ADA was more de Cadenet Lola rather than Lola Lola (if you see what I mean).

The ADA01 was based, according to Ian Briggs excellent "Endurance racing 1982 - 1991" on a bits of a circa 1974 2-litre lola, not on anything with de Cadenet in the name.