97 replies to this topic

[doc540]

This little car has been in my family nearly 40 years, and although it won't accelerate, steer, or stop very well, I do enjoy driving it to and from work everyday. It's a short drive, but one which commands my attention. Unassisted drum brakes will do that.

CLASSIC Driver

Tell us about your frequent CLASSIC drives. Weekender's need not reply.;)

[Hans Etzrodt]

My vintage car has 4 overhead cams & 24 valves, to make the 6 cylinders breathe. To me it is vintage. I drive it daily and I spend money to keep it in working order; so I should qualify.

[Ray Bell]

Depends on what you call 'vintage'...

Officially that's pre-1931. There's very little that I'd be looking to drive daily in that age group. But a lot of people today rate cars from the sixties as 'vintage' and I do have one of those that I'd drive as my first choice daily. Even on long trips...

That's this car...



What engine's in the Mustang that it lacks acceleration? It would leave the 404 for dead off the grid, I'm quite sure, but I'd happily line up against you for a run down a twisty road... especially a downhill one.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Ray - when in South Africa in 1963, I owned a 404 S/Wagon with worm-gear differential, which gave the car extra ground clearance. Important for the dirt roads in Zululand and once crossing the Ubombo Mountains going 90 mph along the long dirt strip through the bush to N'dumo, near the Mozambique border.

[Ray Bell]

That would have to be a 1963 to 1966 model, Hans...

I have had one or two of these. They like these speeds better if you fit the 1967-72 sedan differential, which bolts straight into the rear axle of the wagon. 4.2:1 rather than 4.75:1. You can see how much more comfort the engine would have.

But you can't seriously call anything that new 'vintage', can you?

[Buford]

I just got out of my 1966 Mustang Fastback which also was driven today by my 15 and 18 year old nephews, both of whom were born 20 years or more after the car was new. Yeah the drum brakes suck and ours has been in the family almost 40 years too. But ours will accelerate!

http://img144.exs.cx...=10000407fy.jpg

[Ray Bell]

Drum brakes?

I don't think I've ever seen a Mustang with drum brakes! But I guess we only ever got the up-market models here... private imports, of course, but there are hundreds of the things...

[dbw]

as my life doesn't really have weekends these days ,i feel free to take the ford t out for a errand....the 356 roadster is used mainly[ mostly within the limits of weather]..the bugatti is often exercised but only on nearby mountain roads that don't have stoplights.

has someone really improved on drum brakes???golly

[RTH]

When I saw the title of this thread, I was expecting to see a story and photograph of a 1920's motor car.

My understanding of the correct designations to describe the era's of the history of the motor car are : -

Veteran car - up to 1904

Edwardian car - 1905 - 1919

Vintage car - 1920 -1930

Post Vintage thoroughbred - 1931 -1939

Classic car - post WW2 up to at least 25 years old

........... and of good quality (a awful lot of old 'Grey Porage' has this label attached to it by it's owners - wrongly in my view)

This is a convenient shorthand so that in general people have a good idea the sort of car being referred to.

I wonder if anyone uses a 1920's car as a daily driver ?

Anyone own anything over 65 yrs old and can put up a photograph of it ?

[Felix]

My every day car in South Africa is an NSU Ro80. Not too long ago, whilst returning to Durban from Kyalami (where else?) I was 'flashed' doing 137 km/h on a motorway with a 120km/h limit.

During the ensuing 'interview' with Traffic Officer, who looked not a day older than 18, I asked him how old he was. 'Twenty six,' he responded proudly as he stretched upwards another inch or so.

'Well,' I said, 'at 35 this car is nine years older than you, so you'd better show it some respect before fining me.'

After admiring it he let me go with a warning to not push the 'old car' so hard!

[doc540]

Yes, I should have given more thought to the proper terminology and posted "Classic" instead of "Vintage". I'll do penance by adjusting my brakes with a brake spoon next weekend.

[Ray Bell]

Penance would be using a screwdriver...

[doc540]

Oh, yes, and I have done that many, many times.

Throughout the 70's, this streetrod was my daily driver, and I spent countless hours on my back, racheting adjustment stars with a flathead screwdriver.


The worst, however, had to have been the '37 Ford I owned which had mechanical brakes replaced with '40 model hydralics. However, the early hydralic models were designed such that each shoe had an individual adjustment. It was a royal pain in the azz until I converted the fronts to unassisted discs.


Of course, the dramatic improvement provided by even the unassisted discs made it seem as though I could stop like a modern race car.

[T54]

Ray,
I had a near-new 1965 Peugeot 404 wagon and LOVED that car. It had the power drum brakes and that thing would stop!
We used to carry two racing bikes on the back plus all the tools.
It was very comfortable, very stylish and quite reliable. We once set in on two wheels going to Nancy and hitting the Vosges a bit too fast. Fortunately we got away with it after having literally rolled over another car's roof for a couple of anxious moments... :

Today I regularly drive my old 1957 220S coupe, at least 3 times per month but not on a daily basis:



It is sweet and starts every time and required virtually zero maintenance other than safety fluid changes since we purchased it in Switzerland in 1980...

T54

[Ray Bell]

The Thermostable brakes... never sold in Australia, same size as the other drums (11" x 2.6") and almost as good as the discs that came in 1969.

Love that Benz... quite a stylish car, and with a very solid look about it. Too early for fool injection though.

Doc... how did the Chev pickup steer? Obviously you had the air conditioning switched on often...

[T54]

Love that Benz... quite a stylish car, and with a very solid look about it. Too early for fool injection though.

Ray,
I was told horror stories about the carbs on these cars. Mine came with twin Solexes. I NEVER had to do ANYTHING to them in 24 years... but I had a 1972 250C with a single Stromberg that gave me hell. A friend of mine has a 1959 injected car and he has all kind of problems making it run as smooth as mine... so no regrets! Besides this car was dirt-cheap in 1080. Cost me more to ship it by ocean freight to the USA than to buy it.

About 10 years ago someone gave me a pair of Solex carbs on a manifold for a 220S and I never even looked at them yet... they have been laying on a shelf at our shop.

T54

[Buford]

My every day car in South Africa is an NSU Ro80. Not too long ago, whilst returning to Durban from Kyalami (where else?) I was 'flashed' doing 137 km/h on a motorway with a 120km/h limit.

Hee hee. I used to race against those things.

The worst, however, had to have been the '37 Ford I owned

Sweet. You don't have it anymore? I still have my first car, a 1934 Chevy but I have not driven it since 1970 or so. It is in a garage 2500 miles away, left probably feeling abandoned. But it will get used again as soon as I get $35,000 or so I want to use to do a total rebuild to make it into what I originally wanted as a teenager but only got partially done to it. It is my "final project" I think. My lasting legacy. I want to do it right or not at all so it has to wait.

[doc540]

Ray, the '41 Chevy pickup steered rather well with the proper tire inflation. I added an aftermarket, hydralic shock, steering dampener. And, like any manual steering, 1/2 ton truck, it required more technique than muscle.

The '37 Ford steered even better when I had the original banjo wheel restored. The large diameter was its saving grace.

[Ray Bell]

Yes, the large steering wheel, salvation if you don't want to run power steering...

The 404 has a nice big wheel, fairly quick steering. They are light to drive in every respect. Not as solid as a Chevy or a Benz, but strong and capable.

[antonvrs]

This is my daily driver when I'm not driving my Mazda pickup.
I bought it last summer in Berryton, Kansas, a little town outside of Topeka and drove it back to Los Angeles. It's got a stock '57 Chevy 283 V8 in it but all the rest of the running gear is Ford- a '39 floor shift gearbox, '40 rear axle and '40 hydraulic brakes.
Before I bought the '34 I had a stock '29 Model "A" Tudor that I used regularly but it's mechanical brakes were just too harrowing in LA traffic so it had to go.
As the bumper sticker says, "My other car is a Giulietta Sprint", but you know what those look like.

Anton

[doc540]

Ah, yes...mechanical brakes.

I have a '37 Ford sales brochure in which Ford touts its braking system with this gem of Dearborn spin, "The safety of steel from the pedal to the wheel".



antonvrs, is that a '34 Vicky?? I'm envious. IMHO, it's the most beautiful Ford ever offered for sale to the public.

[Buford]

Originally posted by antonvrs


This is my daily driver when I'm not driving my Mazda pickup.
I bought it last summer in Berryton, Kansas, a little town outside of Topeka and drove it back to Los Angeles. It's got a stock '57 Chevy 283 V8 in it but all the rest of the running gear is Ford- a '39 floor shift gearbox, '40 rear axle and '40 hydraulic brakes.
Before I bought the '34 I had a stock '29 Model "A" Tudor that I used regularly but it's mechanical brakes were just too harrowing in LA traffic so it had to go.
As the bumper sticker says, "My other car is a Giulietta Sprint", but you know what those look like.

Anton

Wow that looks almost identical to my 1934 Chevy except mine doesn't have the suicide doors

[antonvrs]

Naah, it's just a plain Tudor sedan- the 2nd prettiest Ford ever.

Buford, the '34 Fords and Chevys were really similar in styling but I think the Fords are just a little bit prettier. But then, I'm a Ford guy through and through. It embarrasses me to have that orange motor in my '34 so I'm looking for a good flathead.
I have to admit, though, it runs very well with the 283 in there.
Anton

[Buford]

I am a Ford man too but my first car was the 1934 Chevy. They do look so much alike there must have been corporate espionage involved.

[doc540]

anton, I agree. Take your pick:







And my choice:

[antonvrs]

Buford, if you were to verbally describe a '34 Ford, Chevy and Plymouth 2 door sedan they'd be nearly identical.

doc540, I've got a buddy running a 3-71 blown flathead in his '36 3-window but I'll settle for a very mild one.
What are the heads on the 3rd motor in your post? Birner?
Anton

[antonvrs]

Wait a minute- STUDEBAKER heads on a flathead Ford block? WTF?
Anton

[doc540]

Here's the text:
"Is this cool or what! A 24-stud '38-40 flathead with a Riley eight cylinder overhead valve conversion featuring three-port intake and exhaust, roller-tappet cam, and a very, very, rare magnesium pan (only two are known to exist). This engine was originally built for airplanes, which were being manufactured in Lincoln, Nebraska."


Check out the incredible collection of engines here:

Smith Collection

[Ray Bell]

Hey, great stuff! I thought that inlet manifold looked odd!

Was it dry sumped for aerobatics?

[paulogman]

this is my 1975 911s daily driver. it needs a paint job
http://img.photobuck...r/ducktail3.bmp

[T54]

this is my 1975 911s daily driver. it needs a paint job

And new valve seals, or is it that you dropped the clutch in first?
Nice cars, those 911S, but already strangled by CIS injection...

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by RTH
When I saw the title of this thread, I was expecting to see a story and photograph of a 1920's motor car.

My understanding of the correct designations to describe the era's of the history of the motor car are : -

Veteran car - up to 1904

Edwardian car - 1905 - 1919

Vintage car - 1920 -1930

Post Vintage thoroughbred - 1931 -1939

Classic car - post WW2 up to at least 25 years old

........... and of good quality (a awful lot of old 'Grey Porage' has this label attached to it by it's owners - wrongly in my view)

This is a convenient shorthand so that in general people have a good idea the sort of car being referred to.

I wonder if anyone uses a 1920's car as a daily driver ?

Anyone own anything over 65 yrs old and can put up a photograph of it ?

Are these designations recognised outside Great Britain?

[David Birchall]

Generally not. At least not in N. America where "Vintage Racing" encompasses just about everything made prior to last year. Steve Earl made an effort when he named them the "Monterey Historics" but not many people followed his lead and its been 30 years now! An argument can be made "Why should they follow the lead of some old British club?" to which I have no good response....

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Roger Clark
Are these designations recognised outside Great Britain?

They're known and recognised in Australia...

But only by those 'in the know' if you see what I mean. The general public is becoming more and more conditioned to the idea that cars from the fifties and even sixties are 'vintage'... with the leading cause being, I believe, The Trading Post, the weekly newspaper that's all ads.

Their sections for car advertisements include sections for various prices, for trucks, for parts, for accessories, for engines etc... and for 'vintage' cars.

So rather than put your 1965 Austin 1800 in the regular category, according to the price, you put it in 'vintage' so it might attract a different type of buyer... or whatever...

But that's the way things are going here.

[T54]

Anyone own anything over 65 yrs old and can put up a photograph of it ?

I will send you a picture of me in another 2 years.

[paulogman]

Originally posted by T54


And new valve seals, or is it that you dropped the clutch in first?
Nice cars, those 911S, but already strangled by CIS injection...

well the car is a 75 but the motor is a 3.2l carrera from 1987. the overly restrictive stock exhaust is going to be replaced by a set of stainless steel headers and catalytic converter free twin exhaust in january. I am waiting on a new chip for the motronic injection brain, and I will more than likely change out the stock induction sensor for a mass airflow sensor in the coming months as well.
that "smoke" is not from the clutch. lol. it was 5 degrees when i took the photo because i wanted to be sure that it represented that this is my daily driver.

[Arthur Anderson]

In the US, there is no uniform "classification" system as regards how one is to call a car (antique, veteran, vintage, classic, yadda yadda), as there is such a plethora of clubs devoted to older automobiles.

The oldest US club, Antique Car Club of America (AACA), at first thought only of pre-WW-I cars as "antiques", stemming from their founding in 1935 (the founders included than Anton Hulman Jr, BTW). AACA continued this pattern until about 1950, when they began accepting cars up to 1925, then gradually extended their classification of "antique", until now AACA, I believe, accepts any car 25 years old or older (25 years, incidently, is the age accepted by the majority of US States for "historic" or "antique" car license plates and registrations).

Horseless Carriage Club of America (HCCA) has had a bit of a checkered life, at first being a West Coast-oriented club (AACA for a number of years concentrated in the East), and followed pretty much AACA's philosoply, but today does not recognize any cars newer than, I believe, 1925.

Veteran Motor Car Club of America (VMCCA) is pretty similar in scope to the above mentioned, but much smaller.

Classic Car Club of America (CCCA) is, while recognizing multiple marques of cars, perhaps the most restrictive club, in that they admit only those cars meeting a rather tight set of criteria. CCCA began in the immediate post-war years, as a group of owners/enthusiasts of the really grand luxury cars of the years 1925-1941. CCCA recognizes marques based on not only these criteria, but also upon a majority vote of the membership, as to whether a particular car should be, by them, recognized as a "Classic". (this has caused no small disagreement among car enthusiasts all over the US over the years). At their outset, CCCA tended not to recognize closed-body cars, preferring the open roadsters, cabriolets, convertible sedans and phaetons, leading to the demise of many truly great formal-bodied cars. (What, pray tell, was a "Semi-Classic"?) However, even CCCA has evolved, over time, to recognize, and admit to membership and their shows, both closed and open cars, along with a number of cars from marques that might ordinarily have been considered somehow less prestigious than say, a Packard, Duesenberg, Cadillac, or Rolls Royce.

Of course, in the US, given the hundreds of millions of cars that have rolled rubber tires on roads since the 1890's, and the literal thousands of marques of cars that have come and gone in the last 110 years, it is only natural that there would be one-marque clubs and organizations, and there are. Name just about any American marque that saw production for more than just a few years, there is a club, or at least, a registry devoted to it.

Over the years, with the large number of clubs and organizations, the terminology gets blurred. For example, while CCCA does vigorously defend their definition of a Classic, one sees constantly advertisements describing "classic Chevy", "classic Mustang", classic this and that. "Vintage" gets used a lot, but at least anything grown, crafted, produced or made can be said to be of a certain "vintage".

But, a standard set of terms for the various era's of cars in the US? No, that just does not exist.

Art Anderson

[dbw]

i think the issue here is that time doesn't stand still...[all "official" club, international/local designations aside for a moment]...despite our denial we are getting older as are our cars...and , at least for me, perspective gets a bit wierd...as a young man when 911's were introduced, i still think of a '67 911 as a "new" car...growing up in a time when i drove a 550 spyder to art school,my mates drove lotus 11's,100-4's and ratty speedsters with no conception of their[or their car's] future status..they were just neat[and cheap] cars to drive....and now there's a strange time warp that i've become acutely aware of lately....if i need a part for a gp bugatti,one tranatlantic call and five days [or less] later it's in my hand..often easier than getting a part for my honda!...now, as i drive a 356 porsche as a "daily driver" i should be able to get parts easily,right? oh nooo..my local parts house not only doesn't list plugs for a '60 porsche, they don't carry any 6 volt ANYTHING !!! no batteries,fuses sealedbeams,even stoplight bulbs!..often the kid behind the counter reacts with surprise to learn that cars even ever had 6 volt systems!so, off to the dunebuggy shop where they speak 6 volt..of course the problem doesn't lie with them, it's really ME...i'm an old guy that grew up with cars now considered "classics" by several generations...a mustang is an old car to a young man that drives a hopped up several year old gti...where i talked to my pals about emulsion tubes and venturis now it's chips,fpr's and ems's...so i guess i have to resign my self to the fact that i've become a "classic" as well.

[Ray Bell]

You are indeed...

Surprised yesterday when I read on another forum that 1956 Chryslers were not only 6-volt, but positive earth!

[dretceterini]

I've had any number of 1960s and 1970s Alfas that I have used as daily drivers.

[Menace]

Heres my daily driver.

[T54]

...that "smoke" is not from the clutch. lol. it was 5 degrees when i took the photo because i wanted to be sure that it represented that this is my daily driver.

Brrrr! and I thought it to be coldish here, in 55-degree weather.
Be sure to wear them' booties even if heel-and-toe is seriously hampered, the heater is not exactly efficient...
Also they make battery-powered steering wheel heater socks. Yes!
Now for the behind...

[paulogman]

actually the heater is good enough for me to drive with the window open while I smoke. and just letting the car run for 5 minutes before i drive anywhere is usually enough to heat up the car.
now all I have to conquer is how to stop a 911 downhill on snow covered ice

[HistoricMustang]

Am working hard on getting my former vintage racer (#97) ready for street duty!

Henry

[doc540]

You know, I wondered about your forum name when I first saw it, now I know!

What a fantastic Mustang. I wish you nothing but the best in getting it back on the street. Please post more details!

[HistoricMustang]

doc thanks. I was fortunate enough to get the old girl on eleven different road courses here in the States and even picked up class wins at Daytona, Sebring and Road Atlanta. A lot of fun times in the car and a lot of social fun time.

The graphics are off (except for the Holman Moody decals), a passenger seat has been added and the street exhaust system makes the bride very happy.

One final photo halfway through the restoration and at speed at VIR.

Henry

[VAR1016]

See Avatar; I have owned her for 15 years.

PdeRL

[Powersteer]

Nice Mustang. Technical details are?

Looks nasty with the window behind the door covered and is left plain, not vents, nothing.

[HistoricMustang]

Most of her nine year Historic Sportscar Racing, Ltd (HSR) career she was in true vintage form, from the actual 289 block to the 4 speed toploader and rear drum brakes. Actually built to run the Enduro's rather than sprint races.

Fortunate enough to have raced at Daytona, Sebring, Moroso, Roebling Road, Road Atlanta, Atlanta Motor Speedway, Lowes Motor Speedway, Carolina Motorsports Park, VIR, Summit Point and Watkins Glen.

Is not the fastest early model Mustang by any means but a lot of success just being dependable. As we all know, you have got to finish to win.

The last two years of competition I added the five speed to help at Daytona, VIR and Watkins Glen.
In street form aluminum heads have been added.

Thanks for the interest.

Henry

[rdrcr]

Here's one of mine that sees a bit of use ~ last year she ran up 3,500 miles.