26 replies to this topic

[RTH]

In 1954 BRM were looking for members. I wonder if anyone remembers it, or might have been a member, - and just exactly what did you receive for your £1 1s 0d annual subscription to ORMA - the Owen Racing Motor Association ?

It sounds a little like the 'Racing for Britain ' scheme in the early eighties ?

imageshack

[Rob29]

I was a member for just one year 1962. I remember going to a film show,but that was about it.

[Doug Nye]

ORMA was descended from the BRM supporters Association which had been formed originally to provide personal supporters of the original cooperative industrial project with a link to the programme, and to involve the general public in the idea's ambitions and objectives. As the original British Racing Motor staggered through its financial shortfall and slippages of time and missed targets - experiences dear to my heart - it was the BRMA which formed a hardcore of public support and often reacted violently to press criticism with pungent letters to the editor in defence of the misunderstood operation...

When the original British Motor Racing Research Trust was closed and the hardware and rights sold to the Owen Organisation, BRMA's title became ORMA and the same contemporary equivalent of a 'fan club' set-up conducted continuing operations. ORMA members received a pretty lively newsletter full of information, news, excuses and lies about BRM progress and activities - there were regular visits to and open days at the works in Bourne and up on the test circuit at Folkingham - where the race 'shop was situated - while the ORMA tent at major UK race meetings in which the BRMs were competing became a familiar fixture.

ORMA members were in many cases the most rabid and uncritical of BRM fans.

Many of them were in many ways the most rabidly patriotic and unswervably red, white and blue of war-winning patriotic Brits who had done their bit for King and country, were absolutely imbued with notions of 'British is Best' (and 'Empire Made' being only marginally second best) and most seemed utterly convinced that nobody else in the entire world could better us other than by political manipulation or outright cheating, dashed bad form, Johnny Foreigner....beastly Eyeties, baleful Huns who hadn't yet been slapped down hard enough...all that kind of stuff.

Many more ORMA members were knowledgeable, good hearted, wholesomely pro-home team genuine enthusiasts who were increasingly desperate for the British Racing Motor to show some form, and at last to emulate what Vanwall had done...and to beat those bloody red cars. Which - ultimately - they did, regularly...until it all fell apart again...as ultimately did ORMA itself.

DCN

[RTH]

Thank you Doug, - how very interesting. I expect those 'club' magazines would make fascinating reading today, I wonder if they still exist anywhere ?

I have a book - "The Story of the BRM V16 Engine " with exquisite celluloid plates which when turned show sectional views through the engine and transmission - It is hardback with a price on the sleeve of 7/6d !

All the more interesting what you say because inside is an extract from articles in 'The Motor' by then (1954) Technical Editor Laurence Pomeroy which goes right off the topic about the early 1930's II Duce, the Fascist regime, the Nazi party and the Fuhrer, Hitler and motor racing's part in their grand plan, and state financing of the two German companies and Alfa Romeo . Clearly at the time feelings were still running high. Clearly patriotism was a much bigger issue in the early BRM days than many would imagine.

[karlcars]

I was an early member of the BRMA and still have my lapel badge - a handsome artifact. I also have copies of the newsletters that I received at the time, which I have used as reference in some later writings.

[Teddy Pilette]

I was never a member of the ORMA club because I was not racing with the team at that time. However, I can claim to be the last person to race the Stanley-BRM. My race engineer was Alan Chaley who left BRM and went to Williams.

[Doug Nye]

Welcome to TNF Teddy ... a most extraordinary place.

You will shortly be inundated with questions, I am sure...

DCN

PS - Alan Challis was the name.

[RTH]

Karl

I do hope you will share with us any information in those newsletters that in retrospect at a distance now of some 50 years, sheds new light on this fascinating project.

On a personal note can I say how much I like listening to your analysis of the current motor industry scene when you are brought in as an expert witness on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, - usually when a car maker declares a crisis measure, those delightfully distinctive tones always herald a factual analysis I know I can rely on. I particually enjoyed the recent Delorean programme this year and your contributions , which even after 25 years was most revealing.

I, and I'm sure many other contributors over 50 who have lived through all those crisis years of Austin/Morris/BMC/BMH/BLMC/Rover Group and now MG Rover are worried for the future of the long time British flag carrier with such a wonderful past in the hands of William Morris and Herbert Austin..

How about doing a TV history of the company with projections in to the future, - you would be splendid, - I am sure Channels 4 or 5 would go for it. Love to know what you think is likely to happen.


Teddy

I am sure I speak on behalf of all in welcoming you to "The Nostalgia Forum" I do hope you will feel free to share with us all your past motor racing experience and knowledge gained first hand over many years..........and hopefully some personal stories and photographs.

You are very welcome.

[BRM MICK]

welcome Teddy

I also look forward to tales of Stanley BRM

Mick

[bill moffat]

The nicest piece of ORMA memorobilia that I have seen came up for auction at the Brooks Goodwood Auction in 1988. A large silver salver engraved "from ORMA" and presented to Graham Hill in 1963.

It was destined for my display cabinet until some journo pipped me at the post...

[VAR1016]

Originally posted by BRM MICK
welcome Teddy

I also look forward to tales of Stanley BRM

Mick

Yes,

I'd like to echo this. There are plenty of B.R.M. nutters around these parts, yours truly included, of course.


PdeRL

[Doug Nye]

Just for interest here are a couple of fairly typical ORMA newsletters - the first Bulletin 7 which explains some of the Association's history in detail and gives a flavour of its presentation by Owen Organisation PRO, the always charming, ever-breathless, A.F. Rivers Fletcher...









...and then here is Bulletin 16 which tells a pretty frank story of the team's disasters in the 1956 British Grand Prix...





DCN

[VAR1016]

Thanks Doug; those were most interesting.

In particular the explanation regarding t he simulataneous timing of announcements "To press and Association members"; it seems strange these days to reflect that it seemed necessary to explain this in 1955.

Also interesting is the amount of technical information that it was felt could be revealed - and as yu observed, the degree of frankness in the second bulletin.

Thanks again

PdeRL

[ian senior]

Indeed, fascinating. Interesting wheels on the car described - "perforated steel disc....wheels of light alloy ".

[RTH]

How very interesting all that is, reading letters like those first hand is rather like getting the information in real time, amazing to think this is now half a century ago.

I am most interested to see all the films made by or on behalf of BRM , - Does anyone still have a copy of that "BRM - 1954 " film referred to ? It would appear London Film nights were a regular and big part of being a supporter of BRM efforts in those days .

Does anyone know, or indeed have a definitive list of all the BRM made films throught their existance , do they still exist (surely they must) who has them, and can, and will they be re-issued 50 years on. Films made by the manufacturer are always fascinating as there is, by definition unlimited access to the factory, the design process, production, testing etc which is so much more interesting than trackside race footage.

The 1950's & 1960's was a great period for motor racing related trade films by all the oil companies - Shell, BP, Castrol, Esso, and others , doubtless other trade suppliers & supporters - the tyre,brake, instrument, etc makers did similar and also made their own films to draw allention to their links with the racing teams . I wonder if all these are known and gathered somewhere under an archieve and if or when these could be issued on DVD etc . I wonder if the very excellent MFQ have some answers. For me just this sort of obscure technical film made in the period is a joy.

Thanks for going to the trouble of putting those letters up Doug.

Anyone like the idea of a marathon film night somewhere for TNF contributors as an extension to the successful regional meetings - perhaps someone could come up with a programme of not previously released material ?

[Ray Bell]

Great idea...

You organise it, I'll let you use my place and my wife will serve refreshments.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
..... my wife will serve refreshments.

Paddock Club mode
Is that a threat or a promise?
/Paddock Club mode

I think the driving force behind the film shows was the above-mentioned Rivers Fletcher, so he probably had the few (or one?) copies of them. In "More Motor Racing" he mentions running ad hoc film shows on trans-Atlantic liners, so it looks like he might have travelled with them!

Was his archive sold off on his demise? Or does it still exist somewhere?

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
.....Is that a threat or a promise?.....

As you well know... it was a joke!

Or it would be...

[BRM MICK]

various Rivers fletcher related items were sold on ebay recently didnt see any films offered, mainly odds and ends

mick

[jph]

Originally posted by RTH:

Does anyone know, or indeed have a definitive list of all the BRM made films throught their existance , do they still exist (surely they must) who has them, and can, and will they be re-issued 50 years on.

A 4 volume set of videos was released by Terrific Stuff a few years ago, covering the years 1950 to 1965 and consisting mostly, if not entirely, of the publicity films made by Rivers Fletcher. Not sure whether they're still available, and not to be confused with the 4 volume video set marketed by Duke which contains a lot more interviews and less archive footage.

[Doug Nye]

Tha various "BRM films" were in part produced by Rivers, while some of the earlier ones were made by other rather more professional outfits. In recent times Terrific Stuff presented some of the material, and I believe Neville Hay and Duke has been involved in presenting others. Some of the material I have seen offered on VHS has plainly been a late-generation copy pretty far removed from any original masters with the consequent loss of detail, tone and quality. Rubery Owen still owns the originals and David Weguelin Productions has access which permits reproduction at best possible quality. However - the market has already been supplied and quite a leap of faith is required to offer footage which one could only promote by saying "Well here you are fellers, we know you've seen this material before, but never in this quality...".

DCN

[Vitesse2]

Oh, I dunno, Doug. The record industry managed it pretty successfully by conning people into replacing their vinyl record collections with CDs - supposedly unscratchable and longer-lived than your old LPs. Twenty years down the line, the recording matrix of the early CDs is starting to break down, leaving them only good for drinks coasters.

The coming thing in recorded music (for depth of sound, blah, blah, blah ....) is supposedly ........VINYL!!!

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Oh, I dunno, Doug. The record industry managed it pretty successfully by conning people into replacing their vinyl record collections with CDs

Aye, and what Doug describes is exactly the same question that the Movie companies posed about whether someone who owned a movie on a Video Tape would buy a DVD of exactly the same movie - and, while the answer is different for different movies, the basic rule is that a fair proportion of such owners will pay out again for a digitally clear version of an old favorite........memo to self: try to stop being such an easy mark for entertainment companies

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Oh, I dunno, Doug. The record industry managed it pretty successfully by conning people into replacing their vinyl record collections with CDs - supposedly unscratchable and longer-lived than your old LPs. Twenty years down the line, the recording matrix of the early CDs is starting to break down, leaving them only good for drinks coasters.

The coming thing in recorded music (for depth of sound, blah, blah, blah ....) is supposedly ........VINYL!!!

So those 78s I have in the cupboard will soon become valuable again as all the cassette tapes break their tapes, the CDs degrade away and LPs become too scratched to use any more?

[RTH]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Tha various "BRM films" were in part produced by Rivers, while some of the earlier ones were made by other rather more professional outfits. In recent times Terrific Stuff presented some of the material, and I believe Neville Hay and Duke has been involved in presenting others. Some of the material I have seen offered on VHS has plainly been a late-generation copy pretty far removed from any original masters with the consequent loss of detail, tone and quality. Rubery Owen still owns the originals and David Weguelin Productions has access which permits reproduction at best possible quality. However - the market has already been supplied and quite a leap of faith is required to offer footage which one could only promote by saying "Well here you are fellers, we know you've seen this material before, but never in this quality...".

DCN

Well you can put me down for a set Doug. I have the Duke set but not the TSV, from what you say there may well still be some unseen material with RO.

I wonder what other 'Trade' films Weg has up his sleeve ?

[Doug Nye]

...with a little help from other friends and institutions around the world, infinitely more than one might imagine....

DCN

[RTH]

mmmm...........any clues ?