41 replies to this topic

[Muzza]

Dear Fellows,


Is there any relationship between the Argo company that produced Formula 3 cars in the 1970s and the Argo that built Group C2 machines in the 1980s?

I found a few articles talking about the latter, but no mention of its ownership and origin, so I was unable to confirm or deny any link between the two.

Thaking your attention,


Muzza

[fausto]

Yes, it's just the same company, at the beginning of the 80's, with the advent of FIA Group C and IMSA GTP classes, Argo diversified and started producing a car, the JM16, that was said to be based on a project initiated by Royale. Later they made three variants of the JM19 model, that was raced also in the C2 class of the FIA championship.

The company was initiated by Swiss engineer Jo Marquart (Lotus,McLaren, GRD, Modus) and Englishman Nìick Jordan. After Marquart died (early 90s) it was bought by David Sears, and produced a single seater destined for a far east championship.

Some infos here: http://www.btinterne...rson/Argo01.htm

[Muzza]

Grazie, Fausto!


About Argo Formula 3 cars, take a look at Gerald Swan's good website about Formula 3 at http://f3history.co.uk (click on "Manufacturers", then "Argo").

A question... was there ever a JM2 Formula 3 car? Or only the JM1 and JM3 were built?

Regards,


Muzza

[Ray Bell]

But, I should think, they are different to the people who built the Argo Chev sports car in Melbourne (as raced by Peter Macrow), and not related to the Argo people who make racing connecting Rods in Morpeth.

[ReWind]

Originally posted by Muzza
A question... was there ever a JM2 Formula 3 car? Or only the JM1 and JM3 were built?

JM2 was the 1978 Formula Super Vee car. According to Mike Kettlewell's "Motor Racing Directory" it won the American Robert Bosch Road Race Championship plus the USAC Mini Indy series.

[Rainer Nyberg]

The JM2 was a Formula Super Vee car (1978).
The JM4 was also a FSV (1979).

[Muzza]

Thanks Reinhard and Rainer!

[JacnGille]

Originally posted by ReWind
JM2 was the 1978 Formula Super Vee car. According to Mike Kettlewell's "Motor Racing Directory" it won the American Robert Bosch Road Race Championship plus the USAC Mini Indy series.

Bill Alsup used the JM2 to great effect here in the States in '78.

[canon1753]

Argo even made a CART racer that didn't pan out. (circa 83-84)

[Muzza]

Originally posted by canon1753
Argo even made a CART racer that didn't pan out. (circa 83-84)

This thread is getting more and more interesting! Any pictures or drawings of this Argo CART tub/car?

Another question: was Anglia Cars a works or semi-works Argo team in the British Formula 3 Championship or they were just customers of the marque?

Best regards,


Muzza

[fausto]

The Indy car was built for Bill Alsup, that later raced one of the IMSA JM16s, I must have a pictures (from magazines, of course) somewhere.....please be patient

;)

[Mallory Dan]

Anglia Cars was the official name of the Company that built the Argo range. The CART car was the JM15, IIRC tested but not raced by Alsup after his FSV win the previous year. JM7 was the 1980 FSV car.

It all petered out F3/FSV-wise after the awful JM8 bombed in 1981. That year also was the JM9 Atlantic car, about which I'm always asking, and no-one seems to remember ! hey did make the JM14 FF2000 cars in 1983-84, which went very well with Anthony Reid, and which Damon H made his racing debut in late 1983.

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by fausto
The company was initiated by Swiss engineer Jo Marquart (Lotus,McLaren, GRD, Modus) and Englishman Nìick Jordan. After Marquart died (early 90s) it was bought by David Sears, and produced a single seater destined for a far east championship.

David Sears' Supernova Racing F3000/GP2 team is still based in the old Argo premises in Church Road Griston, near to Watton in Norfolk.

Back in 2000 I painted a mural in the foyer for Supernova of an F3000 car ( 13 feet long ) to replace a 'futuristic' looking Argo side-elevation blueprint that had been on the wall beforehand.

[eldougo]

Originally posted by Muzza

Another question: was Anglia Cars a works or semi-work Argo team in the British Formula 3 Championship or they were just customers of the marque?

Jo Marquart set up was a bit of both Semi-Work and help to paying customer.He sure did not make any money out of it He was one hell of a nice fellow.
.

[MCS]

Always thought the F3 cars were beautiful and can well remember the high standard of preparation and turn out of the works cars especially.

David Kennedy in the works F3 Argo, Dijon en Prenois, 1978...(copyright unknown)...

[fausto]

Originally posted by MCS
Always thought the F3 cars were beautiful and can well remember the high standard of preparation and turn out of the works cars especially.

David Kennedy in the works F3 Argo, Dijon en Prenois, 1978...(copyright unknown)...

Fantastic car, still remember David Kennedy at Monza end of season Trofeo Sachs, dicing with Nelson Piquet and the best italian drivers (1977, or '78...), that year Kennedy seemed destined to very great things...

[malvi]

Bill Alsup Indy 500 1983 -DNQ
copyright 1983 Hungness Yearbook

[llmaurice]

2 Argo f3 cars are still very much in the forefront of Classic F3 racing in the Uk ,( see www.classicf3.co.uk . )
Regarding the Argo marque, Alan Cornock of FCS (late Royale) took over the supply etc. of Argo parts a few years ago but has (I believe) sold the rights on recently.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by llmaurice
2 Argo f3 cars are still very much in the forefront of Classic F3 racing in the Uk ,( see www.classicf3.co.uk . )
Regarding the Argo marque, Alan Cornock of FCS (late Royale) took over the supply etc. of Argo parts a few years ago but has (I believe) sold the rights on recently.

Alan also owned the rights to most of the old Reynards in his "Fulmar" days, didn't he?

[llmaurice]

Up until the last year or so Alan had the rights for Reynard FFs . He is still very active with his race car brokerage (having sold me two Royales ! )His site is www.racingcarsforsale.com

[llmaurice]

Apologies for wrong web address for Alan Cornock. It should be www.racingcarsforsale.co.uk

[petefenelon]

I vaguely recall there being some 'needle' between Royale and Argo versions of the Camel Lights car - my memory is that the rights to each marque were held in the US by different people and some Argos raced as Royales and vice-versa - at one point ISTR that the guy with the rights to Royale (Kleinpeter?) was offering contingency bonuses to any Argo owners who'd rebadge their cars as Royales!

(I think Argo had gone bust, Kleinpeter rescued Royale and carried on building JM16s as RP40s....)

[fausto]

Originally posted by petefenelon
I vaguely recall there being some 'needle' between Royale and Argo versions of the Camel Lights car - my memory is that the rights to each marque were held in the US by different people and some Argos raced as Royales and vice-versa - at one point ISTR that the guy with the rights to Royale (Kleinpeter?) was offering contingency bonuses to any Argo owners who'd rebadge their cars as Royales!

(I think Argo had gone bust, Kleinpeter rescued Royale and carried on building JM16s as RP40s....)

If I remember well Kleinpeter owned the right for US, and decided to go with Royale...when the JM16 was introduced I also read on some mags that it started life as a Royale, then Argo bought from them the project....confusing, isn'it?

[Mallory Dan]

The full story of the Royale/Argo Imsa Lights car is told in the fantastic Paul Lawrence Royale book.

[MCS]

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
The full story of the Royale/Argo Imsa Lights car is told in the fantastic Paul Lawrence Royale book.

Keep wondering about this book Dan.

Would you recommend it?

How does it compare to David Gordon's Chevron book, or Mike Lawrence's March book??

Mark

[Mallory Dan]

Mark, thoroughly recommend it. Given the subject matter its not quite so 'exotic' as the Chevron, March, Ralt, Reynard books, but in its way, its just as good. Some great anecdotes of the UK scene in the 60s/70s/80s, good pics, and a superb chassis list.

[llmaurice]

Alan Cornock certainly told it as it was in the book too . Not like some !

[Cirrus]

It's also beautifully printed on high-quality paper, and it was available at a bargain price recently at Motor Books.

[MCS]

The Royale book sounds good - like the idea of plenty of Cornock quotes. I always thought he was very, very good value.

Didn't know about the Argo connection though......didn't follow the sport for a number of years, so I have some some pretty big "gaps"

I was a stone's throw from Motor Books this morning - wish I'd have gone in now!

Thanks all.

Mark

[Stephen W]

Above: Danny Sullivan in the Argo JM1 at Silverstone April 1977

[Andrew Kitson]

Argo Racing Cars are still involved today. David Sears still owns the name, but sold on the patterns/drawings etc to Alan Cornock who then sold them back to Norfolk to Steve Wills near Snetterton. As I said in an earlier post David Sears Motorsport (DSM) and Supernova GP2 are run from the old GRD/Argo premises. DSM run the German and NZ A1-GP teams, Argo Racing Cars (another part of the Sears empire) run the Brazil & Lebanon teams. David's father Jack is a director and involved with the Sears 'Argo' side of A1-GP.

[Phil Rainford]

Argo JM6 in the more than capable hands of Marcus Pye ....Toyota F3 Race Oulton Park 16th August 1986

Kind regards

Phil

[Mallory Dan]

Ex-Tassin car, Phil?

[bidochon]

who was the sponsor of Thierry Tassin for the 80 F3 saison ?

[Phil Rainford]

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
Ex-Tassin car, Phil?

Dan

Have to admit ignorance on the origins of Marcus Pye's car....however if you see the image below it is fairly obvious which is the ex - Roberto Guerro Argo ;)



Kind regards

Phil

[Mallory Dan]

Originally posted by bidochon
who was the sponsor of Thierry Tassin for the 80 F3 saison ?

OTOH a Belgian (I assume) clothing company, the word "Bebe" rings bells???

[David McKinney]

AFAIK MAWP raced the ex-Tassin car in '86 and the ex-Sears in '87

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by Mallory Dan


OTOH a Belgian (I assume) clothing company, the word "Bebe" rings bells???

Think it was "petite bete" same sponsor he had on his FF car when he ran with 'Hub of the Universe Racing'.

[Mallory Dan]

Thats it Andy, cheers! What sad gits we are remembering these tiny details nearly 30 years later...

[rx-guru]

Don’t know anything about Argo, but the company seemingly build top material. I remember that Martin "Mister Rallycross" Schanche, who also used to drive a Lucky Strike sponsored Argo C2 sportscar with Zakspeed mill for three years (1986–1988) in the GpC2WC and who is a great engineer himself (the first ever Xtrac transmission eg. was build by Mike Endean based on Martin’s ideas), more than once fall into raptures with me about their outstanding work.

[maklfr]

Hello,

I'm the owner of a F3 ARGO JM8 from 1981.
Do you know where I can find all tehnical informations and drawings from this car.
I heared about Steve Wills but I can't find the contact.
The web site www.spiritracingcars.com and E-mail info@spiritracingcars.com are out of use.
Please let me kow.
Best regards

Marc

[merlion]

No reply in all this time, so I do not imagine you have your answer. I'm afraid I do not either, but having built a JM8 at the Anglia Cars Works and spent some time with Jo, I remember the drawings well. Jo was an efficient draftsman, and what I learned from him served me well later when I designed the mechanicals of transit-based electronic systems. Of course, at that time, everything was drawn by hand at the table.

I was responsible for racing a JM8 in 1981, a rather frustrating experience as one might imagine. Watching the cars closely in cornering with Nick Jordan at Snetterton, we could actually see the oscillation of the rear end. This confirmed the driver reports that the car felt very scary to drive hard.

Attempts to alter the characteristics of the car included experimenting with various damper and spring combinations, stiffening the monocoque (adding fasteners to the inspection ports), all the usual and all to no avail. I personally redesigned the sidepods, with assistance from a brother in the US who was on his way to a master's in aeronautical engineering from MIT. I shared the design with Jo, who was quite interested in the wing profile. (Where the original sidepod had a large angle of attack and a NACA-style duct on the top side for the radiator, my modification had a conventional front inlet and exit out the top.)

Ultimately, in my opinion, it was the elegant magnesium oil tank that contributed to the problem. There was not enough resistance to torsional flexing between front and rear wheels. There was too much reliance on the long, stressed engine/tank assembly for the rear suspension geometry. In the follow-up design that sought to address this, the monocoque extended under and around the motor, the magnesium oil tank was repositioned and replaced by a small plain aluminium one (similar to those on contemporary RALTs). It all seemed perhaps to overcompensate a bit, but was very nicely done (Anglia workmanship was always very good). Regards and best of luck, Bob Sturdy