77 replies to this topic

[gerard BARATHIEU]

gentlemen,

on the book of D.JENKINSON about the 250F thre is a colour photo of some cars before the GP

of SPAIN 1954(p26).

there is one about the OWEN car driven by Ken WHARTON.

On this shot the car seems dark blue but this car was this car dark green ?

on another side did the car of H.GOULD in BRITISH GP 1955 dark blue ?

it appears like that on a video tape of this race.


Happy new years to all the thners !!!!

[Doug Nye]

Gerard - pay no attention to printed or movie reproduction colour tints which appear to show dark blue instead of an expected dark green, or vice versa - blues and greens are very easily misrepresented in print as has been explained in various other threads here. I'm almost certain that both the 250Fs you mention were essentially British Racing Green within those ownerships...

DCN

[Barry Boor]

In my quest for 'something different', I have acquired a 43rd scale model of the 1957 Maserati 250.F; in its Fangio/German Grand Prix guise.

What I would like to do is repaint it in a different colour scheme, but what?

Did this body shape Maserati run in any other colours? Masten Gregory/Centro Sud? Or was that the older body shape?

[Tomas Karlsson]

Well, how about blue and yellow? Jo Bonnier bought the ex-Fangio car 2529 in '58 and had to paint it in the Swedish racing colours at the German GP.

[VDP]

Barry

If my memoryis right the 1957 cars were lighweight, those of centro sud were std one, but heavily modified

Robert

[billthekat]

You might want to paint '2529' in the scheme that it was campaigned in during its USA racing days.

[Wolf]

Originally posted by Tomas Karlsson
Well, how about blue and yellow? Jo Bonnier bought the ex-Fangio car 2529 in '58 and had to paint it in the Swedish racing colours at the German GP.

I think I have colour photo of that car (well, stripes do look like done in rush) with Bonnier in't, clear and good quality- I can try and dig i out if it's of any interest...

[RS2000]

I noticed in Richard Williams "The Last Road Race" both Centro Sud 250Fs are described at Pescara in 57 as white with blue stripes (Gregory) and white with blue and gold stripes (Bonnier). There is a black and white photograph of them running one behind the other. I seem to recall at the Daily Express Silverstone meeting (delayed by Suez to September 57) the Bonnier car being silver (and the "gold" stripe more a yellow) and the Gregory car having more blue on it than just central stripes. Were there only 2 Centro Sud cars? (and maybe I was too young to remember clearly...)

[billthekat]

As far as I can sort it out in just a quick glance, here are the 250Fs that Centro-Sud ran:

'2502' / "2511" -- 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959
'2505' -- 1957, "borrowed"
'2506' / "2511" -- 1960
'2507' / "2523" / "2522" -- 1957, 1958, 1959
'2519' -- 1956, 1958, 1959
'2533' -- 1960

Fewer than most would imagine, especially with the "2511" number being recycled for '2506' in 1960....

[Tomas Karlsson]

Hey, hey!
Bonnier had his own tem in 58, even if he was entered by Centro-Sud in Germany, for some reason. He raced 2524 and 2529 during the year. They were usually red, but he had to paint 2529 in blue and yellow at Nürburgring. It was later repainted in red.
At pescara in 57 Jobo drove a white car with blue and yellow stripe. Gregory a white with blue stripes. But that wasn't lightweight cars.

[Barry Boor]

Very naughty of me to raise this question when I have our own Mr. McKinney's Maserati book with all the photos I will ever need!

My slot race Centro Sud car was blue with white stripes and is now white with blue (as in Pescara).

My Bonnier car was silver with blue and yellow stripes and is now hideously yellow and blue. I will post a picture of it here soon.

I think I'll go for the white and blue for my model. I might get a from Joe Fan.

[D-Type]

Was the Nurburgring in 1958 the time that they painted the Bonnier car with distemper as it was the only blue and yellow paint they could get at short notice? I don't remember the race, I just remember DSJ saying it was a good thing it didn't rain.

Barry, is the Brumm Maserati in genuine Fangio colours with only the top of the nose yellow and MO 28 on the tail? Or have they recycled the old model with the all yellow nose?

[Barry Boor]

Yes, D, it's the one with the additional plastic yellow tip to the nose. (What were they thinking?)

I will slightly reshape the tip and then fill and sand the join so that when it is painted, the nose doesn't look like a plastic afterthought.

[Wolf]

OK, I got things slightly wrong, but will post the pic anyway- Bonnier in '57 Pescara, maybe it will be of some use anyway (don't recall where I downloaded it)....

http://members.atlas...aserati250f.jpg

Edit: I just noticed different colours of mirrors- does anybody have an idea why?

[Barry Boor]

Gregory had two red mirrors on his white and blue car in one or two races.

[Keir]

Maseratis should only be painted red, unless they're bicycles!!

BTW, Bonnier's car is stone ugly!!

[D-Type]

I wonder ....
David McKinney's book shows Hermann driving a white Centro Sud Maserati at the Nurburgring. Did they slap on the blue and yellow stripes for Bonnier at Pescara rather than totally repaint it?

[Tomas Karlsson]

David McKinney's book shows Hermann driving a white Centro Sud Maserati at the Nurburgring. Did they slap on the blue and yellow stripes for Bonnier at Pescara rather than totally repaint it?

That's probably what they did. It looks rather slapped on to me.
At Monza, it had got new body panels for the ones lost at Pescara and the car was turned out in silver (bare aluminium?) and with a blue/yellow/blue stripe. It looked the same when Gould drove it at Modena two weeks later BTW.

Was the Nurburgring in 1958 the time that they painted the Bonnier car with distemper as it was the only blue and yellow paint they could getat short notice? i don't remember the race, i just remember DSJ saying it was a good thing it didn't rain.

That was it. I don't know if they washed the colour off the car after the race, but it was all red again later in the year.

[gerard BARATHIEU]

WOLF,

do you have other beautiful pics like that ?

[Barry Boor]

Further to the mirrors issue.... looking through Sir David's 250.F book, especially Maserati in 1957, it is remarkable how often the cars raced with only one wing mirror.

Whenever there is just the one, it always seems to be on the left.

I guess that the Bonnier car originally had just the one, which was painted the same white as the car, but maybe JoBo wanted another and being Italy..... If you look at the picture Wolf posted, the red one does not look to be in the same position on its side of the screen as the white one is on the other. Makes me think this probably was a late and hurried addition.

However, it is the left sided mirror that is red - so there goes THAT theory!!!!

Incidentally, ALL the various versions of the 250.F model produced by the Brumm company have just the one mirror, on the left hand side.

[Vicuna]

Originally posted by Barry Boor


Incidentally, ALL the various versions of the 250.F model produced by the Brumm company have just the one mirror, on the left hand side.

You are absolutely right!

Of course.

I'd never ever notived ...

[Barry Boor]

I settled on the Centro Sud car from Reims - 1957 - page 83 of Lord McKinney's book

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Further to the mirrors issue.... looking through Sir David's 250.F book, especially Maserati in 1957, it is remarkable how often the cars raced with only one wing mirror.

Whenever there is just the one, it always seems to be on the left.

I think you will find that Behra often, if not always, had a right hand mirror.

[D-Type]

I've just spent an enjoyable half hour going through Earl David's book looking at wing mirrors. there is absolutely no consistency at all: mounting on the body (low) on the windscreensurround (medium0, or on the screen itself (high); on the left, on the right, or on both; 'streamlined' mirrors or flat ones; coloured as the body, or not; discrepancies between race and practice (cf pp100 and 101).
Was this one of the clues that Barrie Hobkirk used to track individual cars?

[fines]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
I settled on the Centro Sud car from Reims - 1957 - page 83 of Lord McKinney's book

Very lovely, Barry!

[rudi]

Here rear of the Reims car.

[Barry Boor]

RATS!

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
RATS!

Although the car had been rebodied in 1957 style, it retained the older-type tail (not one like on your model). Also, I thought your blue was a bit bright.
And I'd be happier if the exhaust pipes were black
But it's a damn' sight better than I could do

[Barry Boor]

Thanks, David. I will see to those changes and upload the modified version.

[Mac Lark]

Looks absolutely superb to me BB

[Barry Boor]

Is this better, David?

[David McKinney]

[Barry Boor]

Rather than start another Maserati thread, I have another colour question but relating to 4 CLTs.

Apart from Fangio's blue and yellow car at San Remo, are there any recorded instances of 4 CLT Maseratis being run in colours other than red?

This is part of myquest to produce a varied series of Dinkys.

[Ted Walker]

Barry. Exhaust too black should be rusty !!!!!

[David McKinney]

OTTOMH, both ACA cars were blueand yellow, and Bira's was a similar colour. At least one green car also rings a bell
Of course, some owners will have had to respray for individual races according to local rules

[Patrick Fletcher]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Rather than start another Maserati thread, I have another colour question but relating to 4 CLTs.

Apart from Fangio's blue and yellow car at San Remo, are there any recorded instances of 4 CLT Maseratis being run in colours other than red?

This is part of myquest to produce a varied series of Dinkys.

Very oil'y red in NZ ........ nice but oil'y .... circa 1957/58 it got better as the later owners did not put as much oil in as Ernie did!

[D-Type]

I think De Graffenried's car was red and white and the inspiration for the Dinky.

BTW, the Dinky model doesn't look much like photos of the 4CLT I've seen. Is it a model of a particuler variant or is it a poor model?

[Rob29]

Originally posted by D-Type
I think De Graffenried's car was red and white and the inspiration for the Dinky.

BTW, the Dinky model doesn't look much like photos of the 4CLT I've seen. Is it a model of a particuler variant or is it a poor model?

I always thought it was the F2-c52-53. A6GCS?

[raceannouncer2003]

Back to 250F's...I have all the Merit models, though the unbuilt Gordini is a resin recast. The Merit Maserati 250F looks like it might be the Bruce Halford car '2504' from the German GP, 1957. Does that sound right? Was his car red? Here is a picture (not mine)--it should have one more number on each side adjacent to the cockpit:

http://groups.msn.co...oto&PhotoID=222

[Frank S]

Originally posted by raceannouncer2003
Back to 250F's...

http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/

[raceannouncer2003]

Im sorry...its been a long day!

[raceannouncer2003]

Aha...maybe in England, but...here in Canada...

"The plural of numbers, letters, signs, and symbols is formed by adding the apostrophe and s.

Your 2's look like your 3's..."

Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary of the English Language - Canadian Edition

[Doug Nye]

That's a suprising revelation about Canada and it's publisher's - come the glorious day and all connected with Websters' Canadian edition should be dragged through the street's and s'hot.

[Rob29]

Originally posted by raceannouncer2003
Back to 250F's...I have all the Merit models, though the unbuilt Gordini is a resin recast. The Merit Maserati 250F looks like it might be the Bruce Halford car '2504' from the German GP, 1957. Does that sound right? Was his car red? Here is a picture (not mine)--it should have one more number on each side adjacent to the cockpit:

http://groups.msn.co...oto&PhotoID=222

Looks more like a '56 works car to me. 2504 dates from 1954.Seem to remember a green bonnet and/or nose band when in Halford's hands.

[Barry Boor]

I've just Googled my way to this....



Courtesy of this website... http://fotos.iher.net/

Anyone suggest the nose colour? I haven't seen Horace Gould's car looking like this before.

David? Doug? Barrie?

[Barry Boor]

Can one confirm that this Maserati, (image from Forix) was indeed BLUE with white stripes?

[David McKinney]

I wasn't there, but I think you'll find it was ;)

[Graham Gauld]

Absolutely, blue and white, I was in Modena when Temple Buell took delivery of it and it ran in the Italian Grand Prix in 1958 when Masten Gregory drove it. The photo was of Carrol Shelby at the French Grand Prix when it still ran under the Scuderia Centro Sud banner.

[gerard BARATHIEU]

There is a photo of the car in color of this SHEBY's car in the PETER COLTRIN

racing in color 1954-1959 book p100.

definitively blue and white.

[Barry Boor]

Thank you, gents!