60 replies to this topic

[EcosseF1]

Peter Windsor is a very lucky man!


http://www.crombac.com/

[JtP]

997 NUR stills exists, but I don't know who owns it. Maybe Graham Gauld is free to tell us. So does the white 65 one still exist?

[bill moffat]

Delighted that Jimmy's Elan remains in the hands of a true enthusiast and has not disappeared off the radar to some mysterious "private collector".

For those of you unfamiliar with its predecessor, 997 NUR (with apologies for the cropped image), a Lotus advert featuring Jimmy, the Elan and Eddington Mains..

[Simpson RX1]

Oh dear, how faked is that!

As a voice over myself, I can just see that as a cinema commercial dreampt up by some marketing guru..........fade to ad exec's boardroom.......

"I've got it.......Jimmy sitting on the front wing of the Elan, in full regalia, kilt and all, in front of the country pile, looking all homely and wholesome........

Then there's the voice-over, kinda in your face, but at the same time strangely appealing (just like a Specila K ad telling you how good their product is for you)........

I drive it because I want to, not because I have to (notwithstanding the golden handcuff contract I have, or the huge amount of money I earn to say and do these things........)

Hey, I think we've got a winner here!!!!"

[eldougo]

If that is Jimmy Elan how come it's now Yellow not red and silver!!!!!!!

[JtP]

Originally posted by eldougo


If that is Jimmy Elan how come it's now Yellow not red and silver!!!!!!!

That's Jim Clark's first Elan and the 2nd one off the production line and thus an S1 and would be probably updated to S2 spec as I believe they all were. It appears in many Lotus publicity shots for the car at the time. It was sold to Ian Scott Watson and finished 2nd in the first race at Ingliston driven by Andrew Cowan, by then the hardtop was black.

[eldougo]

Thanks ...JtP

[dbw]

i wonder how many men have actually driven a lotus elan in a kilt???
jeeze..even emma peel wore a catsuit....[drool....]

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by dbw
i wonder how many men have actually driven a lotus elan in a kilt???
jeeze..even emma peel wore a catsuit....[drool....]

Arrrrgghhh!! did you have to mention Diana Rigg.....I was just admiring the elegant lines of the Elan and now you have me off at a tangent admiring other forms (ahhh Emma...so elegant )

[Huw Jadvantich]

.......and so Emma turned the headlights on to find out the answer to that eternal question about Scotsmen and their kilts........

[BRG]

...a question that would have soon been answered if you had seen Jim Clark getting into the Elan whilst clad in a kilt...

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by Simpson RX1
Oh dear, how faked is that!

As a voice over myself, I can just see that as a cinema commercial dreampt up by some marketing guru..........fade to ad exec's boardroom.......

"I've got it.......Jimmy sitting on the front wing of the Elan, in full regalia, kilt and all, in front of the country pile, looking all homely and wholesome........

Then there's the voice-over, kinda in your face, but at the same time strangely appealing (just like a Specila K ad telling you how good their product is for you)........

I drive it because I want to, not because I have to (notwithstanding the golden handcuff contract I have, or the huge amount of money I earn to say and do these things........)

Hey, I think we've got a winner here!!!!"

Mmmm...I don't think things were that cynical (or extravagant) up in Norfolk.

Lotus sixties' style was always a modest, slimline company, not too many execs in boardrooms. Besides which the Elans were genuinely Jimmy's company cars. Why employ some expensive model in some exotic location if you can have the WDC sitting on the bonnet of his own car outside his own farm (and probably at no cost to the company!).

Incidentally I have seen photos of Rindt in a +2 Elan and Andretti in his Esprit but did Graham Hill ever have an Elan as a company car ?

[T54]

Besides which the Elans were genuinely Jimmy's company cars.

Indeed, I remember have seen Jimmy driving the yellow car on several occasions in Paris. Once apparently scaring the wits out of Jochen Rindt while laughing. In those days, when a cop whistled at you for you to stop, it did not mean much as they had no radios and little option but intense frustration. On country roads, you could generally out-run them and get away with it.
Blessed times that will never return.

T54

[BRG]

Originally posted by T54
On country roads, you could generally out-run them and get away with it.

Not just country roads. The first time I drove an Elan (a S3 FHC, IIRC), the owner was really egging me on and I got it up to an indicated 125mph (the rev limiter was starting to cut in) on the Kingston By-Pass. I overtook a police Morris Minor panda-car which I didn't notice until too late. In my mirrors, I saw him put on his roof-light and pull into the middle lane in pursuit - before he realised that there was no way he could catch me.

It was a LONG time ago, m'Lud, and I was young and foolish and anyway the Statute of Limitations has long since taken effect.

[JtP]

Originally posted by Simpson RX1
Oh dear, how faked is that!

As a voice over myself, I can just see that as a cinema commercial dreampt up by some marketing guru..........fade to ad exec's boardroom.......

"I've got it.......Jimmy sitting on the front wing of the Elan, in full regalia, kilt and all, in front of the country pile, looking all homely and wholesome........

Then there's the voice-over, kinda in your face, but at the same time strangely appealing (just like a Specila K ad telling you how good their product is for you)........

I drive it because I want to, not because I have to (notwithstanding the golden handcuff contract I have, or the huge amount of money I earn to say and do these things........)

Hey, I think we've got a winner here!!!!"

This has been discussed before.

The photo is of Jim at Eddington Mains. The Country pile as you describe it looks a typical borders farm house. The house is probably 19th century and is stone built because that was the local building material, there are few if any Scottish farm houses of the period brick built. In fact Jim would only have occupied the house for 26 years at the most and actually been his house for about 8 years.

The photo was not originally taken as a Lotus publicity shot, but for either Time or Life magazine. I can't remember which, but GG will tell you. The dress is hardly full regalia, just kilt with tweed jacket and in fact the kilt and sock tartan are mismatched.

[T54]

The first time I drove an Elan (a S3 FHC, IIRC), the owner was really egging me on and I got it up to an indicated 125mph (the rev limiter was starting to cut in) on the Kingston By-Pass.

You bad boy!

[Graham Gauld]

Good old JtP, trust him to drag me into this.

Reference the photo at the farm it was specially taken for Time magazine as they planned to feature Clark on the cover of Time after he became world champion in 1963 but after it had been all planned someone more important cropped up and the cover story was shelved. It was then dug up again after Jim won Indianapolis in 1965 and was finally published. It was only the second time a racing driver had featured on the cover of Time - the first was Briggs Cunningham.

GG

[Bernd]

[scottywat]

The Elan in the photo with Jimmy Clak wearing his kilt is at Edington Mains, and was taken for
the Lotus company calendar. He had had a photo session down South but there was a last-minute
problem and Ian Scott Watson was asked to polish the Elan (by then his) and take it down to
Edington Mains for a photo-shoot, with the photographer flying up from London. When Ian
delivered car, Jimmy was shooting pigeons (he was a bloody good shot and they were falling out
of the sky like confetti !) and the photgrapher asked him to wear his kilt - but when he came back he continued his original task, much to the concern of the photographer who thought it might be his turn next.

The car was beautifully restored over 8 years by an antique dealer and was one of the two Elans
(both ex-Ian !) which led the Jim Clark Tribute as "course cars" at Goodwood in 2002. The other is the property of Peter Windsor who has owned it since 1974. Who said Eans were fragile ?
I have a copy of the photograph as my old calendar had been ravaged by the sun, and got
and got this from Brian Buckland who tracked down the original. Anyone who is visiting
Chirnside can see another copy in the Waterloo Arms Hotel, which lies just below the church.

[Ray Bell]

Peter Windsor must have bought that as soon as he lobbed in the UK!

IIRC, he only left Australia about November or December 1973 at the earliest...

[David McKinney]

Welcome to TNF, Scottywat
(If you're who I think you are )

[Ray Bell]

If he is, why does he speak in the third person?

[JtP]

From your comments Scottywat, I take it you bought Jim Clark's second Elan as well. That being the white 65 one and that from the time scale mentioned must be the car Peter Windsor bought in 74.

There is a possibility that if I dug into the deeper recesses of my photo collection, I might find a photo of an on track Elan+2! Been under any outsize loads in recent years?

[scottywat]

Jim Clark's white Elan passed into the hands of Sally Stokes
and was later written-off. His yellow Elan was, I think,
registered in France and I don't remember ever seeing it in the UK.
Ian traded in 997 NUR for the car Peter Windsor later acquired,
a 36 Coupe "kit" car.

[Simpson RX1]

And there I was just trying to have a sense of humour............his socks aren't even Tartan, I wasn't trying to instigate a history lesson on the construction of Scottish farm cottages, nor a overview of Hethel's marketing policy of the day..........

I just thought I was being sarcastic/ironic and maybe slightly amusing...........I'll get me coat!

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by scottywat
Jim Clark's white Elan passed into the hands of Sally Stokes
and was later written-off. His yellow Elan was, I think,
registered in France and I don't remember ever seeing it in the UK.
Ian traded in 997 NUR for the car Peter Windsor later acquired,
a 36 Coupe "kit" car.

Which of Jimmy's Elans had the Harold Radford (as in Radford Minis) interior with a plush leather dashboard and lots of other "luxury" bits ?

[EcosseF1]

None, I would hope. Sounds very inappropriate for an Elan.

[scottywat]

The white Elan that was written-off was the Radford one

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by scottywat
The white Elan that was written-off was the Radford one

I hope the large leather cushioned steering wheel boss monogrammed with the letter "R" saved the occupant from serious injury...given Chapman's minimalist approach he could hardly have approved of the Radford work surely !

This week's Autosport has a small sidebar article announcing the sale of the Jabby Elan. Clark allegedly drove to the Le Mans 24 hrs in 1967 in this car. Having checked, it was a "weekend off" between the Dutch and Belgian Grands Prix but he clearly wasn't competing...just an interested spectator then ?

[lanciaman]

Originally posted by Huw Jadvantich
.......and so Emma turned the headlights on to find out the answer to that eternal question about Scotsmen and their kilts........

As an aside:

My son says kilt wearing was truly excellent for crumpet catching in South Carolina saloons.
As a young, buff, US Marine officer, he could get away with it.;)

There'll be none of that now in Fallujah, though.

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by JtP
There is a possibility that if I dug into the deeper recesses of my photo collection, I might find a photo of an on track Elan+2! Been under any outsize loads in recent years?

Such as Emerson Fittipaldi in a JPS Elan +2 estate by any chance ?

[JtP]

Originally posted by bill moffat


Such as Emerson Fittipaldi in a JPS Elan +2 estate by any chance ?

No, like ISW's Elan+2 at a practice day. I'm not sure how quick, but very spectacular. Someone suggested to me that the reason was, that Ian's eyesight is so bad, that by the time he sees a corner it is too late to slow down for it.

[T54]

My son says kilt wearing was truly excellent for crumpet catching in South Carolina saloons.
My son says kilt wearing was truly excellent for crumpet catching in South Carolina saloons.
As a young, buff, US Marine officer, he could get away with it.

There'll be none of that now in Fallujah, though.

True enough, them' Iraki women could hardly be quantified as "crumpet" since they are the ones wearing the kilts.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by bill moffat
Such as Emerson Fittipaldi in a JPS Elan +2 estate by any chance ?

Noooooooooo!! they didn't make an Elan "Estate" did they!!

How agricultural for such a pretty (and capable) sportscar....why didn't I buy one when I had the chance..(typical )

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4


Noooooooooo!! they didn't make an Elan "Estate" did they!!

How agricultural for such a pretty (and capable) sportscar....why didn't I buy one when I had the chance..(typical )

...'fraid so, Hexagon produced 2 baby Elan estates (far less than they may have either predicted or wanted), I believe the car was dubbed the "Elambulance". It was infact quite pretty in a GTE-sort of way.

The (?) one-off +2 Elan was a less sympathetic conversion despite the natty JPS colour scheme. I seem to remember that Fittipaldi did a lap of honour at the Brands RoC one year, his head poking out of the sunroof with his sideburns flapping in the breeze....

[Tepid shoe]

Originally posted by bill moffat


...'fraid so, Hexagon produced 2 baby Elan estates (far less than they may have either predicted or wanted), I believe the car was dubbed the "Elambulance". It was infact quite pretty in a GTE-sort of way.

The (?) one-off +2 Elan was a less sympathetic conversion despite the natty JPS colour scheme. I seem to remember that Fittipaldi did a lap of honour at the Brands RoC one year, his head poking out of the sunroof with his sideburns flapping in the breeze....

If you take a peek at the back of Paul Matty's in Bromsgrove, he is currently constructing a one-off Elan +2 estate for a customer. Surprisingly, it looks rather lovely.

[james]

Michael Schryver owns 997 NUR

[Peter Morley]

Originally posted by james
Michael Schryver owns 997 NUR

Time to fess up.

Friends of my uncle from Nottingham found some remains of a crashed Elan in a local scrapyard, seemingly a very tatty chassis, usable diff housing and the chassis plate (not sure how much bodywork there was).

They sold the remains to Simon Hadfield, he sold them immediately (for a significant profit!!) to Michael Schryver.

These remains have apparently been very carefully restored back as 997 NUR.
Uncle's friends were told that it would not be possible to claim the original registration number, so I don't know if S & M have been able to do so.

Needless to say I was slightly peeved when I discovered that I had not been offered the remains.

[clarko1230]

Here is a pic from Jimmy´s Elan...
As a Lotus collector I am going to transfor my 1/43 Vitesse Lotus Elan into JIM CLARK one...
Does someone has photos or info about Hill , Rindt, or Fittipaldi personal Lotus Elan or Europa?

[Stephen W]

Elans are cracking cars! I love mine to bits however as has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread they tend to require 'upgrading' on a regular basis. My 1970 Elan is on its third chassis which probably accounts for the taught handling!

[D-Type]

I heard somewhere that you can check the true id of an Elan by looking at the inside of the fibreglass body ( or is it the wing?). The car's id no (last few digits of the chassis number) should be marked there - either painted or with one of those indelible marker thingies. The id should of course match the chassis plate.

But I may have got it wrong.

[kayemod]

Originally posted by D-Type
I heard somewhere that you can check the true id of an Elan by looking at the inside of the fibreglass body ( or is it the wing?). The car's id no (last few digits of the chassis number) should be marked there - either painted or with one of those indelible marker thingies. The id should of course match the chassis plate.

But I may have got it wrong.

Yes, now you mention it, I remember seeing that. I think it was just an unofficial thing that the guys on the production line did for their own convenience though, so I wouldn't put too much reliance on it.

PS. I've had further thoughts on this. In the early 70s, something like half, it may have been even more, of Elan and Europa production left Hethel in the form of kits as a purchase tax saving measure for customers. Memories are a bit vague after 30 years, but this practice of an id on the body to match the chassis number might only have applied to cars that were supplied in component form. A few Lotus employees used to buy an Elan kit, further reduced with their staff discount, as often as the rules allowed, and assemble it at home to sell, as a way of surviving on their meagre Lotus salaries. One I worked with, had a waiting list of customers eager to have one of his cut price Elans. His wife and brother in law were also Lotus employees, so he had a nice little earner going for a while before someone got suspicious.

[hipperson]

Voila !
The Hexagon Elan Estate. They also made an Elan 2+2 convertible.



My brother worked there at the time......................

[Stephen W]

When the Jenson-Healey Estate was introduced I thought it was a complete steal from the Hexagon Elan Estate!

[kayemod]

Originally posted by bill moffat
The (?) one-off +2 Elan was a less sympathetic conversion despite the natty JPS colour scheme. I seem to remember that Fittipaldi did a lap of honour at the Brands RoC one year, his head poking out of the sunroof with his sideburns flapping in the breeze....

As far as I can remember, that Elan+2 estate was strictly a one-off done by a Lotus customer on his own car. At one time I could have told you where all the window glass etc had been lifted from, and ACBC must have liked it, because we had it back at the factory to pore over. He never had much of a sense of humour, but perhaps it was The Great Man's idea of a joke, I remember it as a most inelegant device that looked worse in the flesh than it did in photos.

[Andy Glaess]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
Good old JtP, trust him to drag me into this.

Reference the photo at the farm it was specially taken for Time magazine as they planned to feature Clark on the cover of Time after he became world champion in 1963 but after it had been all planned someone more important cropped up and the cover story was shelved. It was then dug up again after Jim won Indianapolis in 1965 and was finally published. It was only the second time a racing driver had featured on the cover of Time - the first was Briggs Cunningham.

GG

I would never dare to disagree with Graham on a Jimmy matter--unless I had proof in my hands.
The photo was published much earlier than 1965, in another Time Life publication. Sports Illustrated, cover date October 7, 1963. My first introduction to Jim's story, and still one of my favorite profiles of him. On page 28, the photograph in question is full page in size, black and white of course. The article is titled, "None So Swift As Wee Jimmy" and is written by Ken Rudeen. The photographer is credited as Brian Seed.

Sorry to reply to this string so late, I'm just seeing it now, but I knew exactly where to find that magazine. Its bagged and filed away. Its a great picture of Clark, and in the context of the article, much less questionable than in the advertisement. But I'm sure that the ad men couldn't resist.

[Graham Gauld]

Andy

I was totally unaware that Sports Illustrated had used the picture earlier but it underlines the fact that the pic was taken earlier than 1965. Come to think of it the reason for the delay in the TIME cover story was probably the death of President Kennedy.

[Andy Glaess]

You're probably right Graham. That time must have been a huge fire drill for U.S. editors!
The S.I. piece is better than the Time piece, actually. Bigger photos, better layout and just a more interesting story.
Sadly, motor racing has lost a lot of media attention over on this side of the world. In the 1960s, Phil Hill and Mario Andretti were on the cover of Newsweek and Jim Clark was on the cover of Time. Gurney, Foyt, Riccardo Rodriguez and Curtis Turner come to mind for S.I. covers during that time. For all of their domination, Prost, Senna and Schumacher weren't on the cover of Sports Illustrated, much less a major news weekly! Senna rated a short story when he was killed. Schumacher a feature in 1995 and nothing at all on Prost during his entire career.
Nascar gets some decent coverage now, but it is all very recent. Within the last 6-7 years or so. Prior to that, it got even less than Formula One.
From the various literature I've collected over the years, Jimmy was quite popular in the U.S. during his career. He didn't seem the type that would like a lot of media attention, but even the American journalists seemed to have flocked to him. It must have been obvious that he was a huge talent from the get go. A.J. Foyt, who spends most of his time talking about himself, has gone out of his way to point out what a stud Jimmy was behind the wheel. He didn't like to give the "sporty car" types much credit, but has never hesitated in calling Clark the real deal.

[Graham Gauld]

Andy

I echo your comments and remember having a conversation with Foyt - and incidentally race queen Linda Vaughn - about Jim and he echoed what you said. Mind you Foyt was a Clark critic after an incident at Trenton, I think, and I remember Jim telling me about the race at Milwaukee when he dominated the race so much that he lapped the entire field and when he came up to lap the second place man, A J Foyt, he held back and decided that he had made his point and was happy to stay behind A J to the end of the race so he lapped everyone except Foyt.
As for Linda, well that's another story, she and Jim were certainly pretty friendly.

[clarko1230]

Hi all:
As I am researching about Jim Clark´s Elans I am compiling all data I have of them
In total he owned 3 Elans
-White S1 RHD 766 BOO
-Red S2 997 RHD NUR
-Yellow S3 LHD given to Jabby Crombac registered in France as 707 LN 91

Can someone tell me if my data is O.K?
Did he owned more Elans?
I read one specially refurbished for him with special dashboard.....or perhaps it belonged to Graham Hill