24 replies to this topic

[Graham Clayton]

Fellow NF members,

I was reading Steve Small's book "The Guiness Complete Grand Prix Who's Who", and noticed an interesting comment in Michele Alboreto's entry. There is a brief note for the 1993 Belgian Gp at Spa "car appalling/worst race of career!"

Why did Alboreto consider this his worst F1 GP? Was it purely the car?

Have there been other drivers who have been honest enough to admit when they have had a terrible race, or have driven a really bad car?

[Zawed]

The 93 Scuderia Italia Lola-Ferrari was an absolute stinker of a car - the team did'nt even bother with the season ending Japan/Aussie races, it was that bad. I'm sure this is a contributing factor towards Michele's attitude towards the race.

[bill moffat]

I seem to remember that Motor Sport ran a series of articles on the topic of "my worst ever car" a few years back. Contributors included Perry McCarthy (inevitably) and Tim Harvey who gave a very rude account of the Renault 19 16v BTCC car (this upset me as it was my road car at the time...)

[MarkWRX]

Wasn't Alain Prost shown the door at Maranelo when he compared the Ferarri F1 car to a tractor?

Mark

[Simpson RX1]

The worst car I ever drove (and I've driven some s*&t, trust me!) was a very early Reliant Robin on 10 year old crossply tyres.......when they break away, turning into the skid doesn't mean much when you've only got one front wheel!!!!

[WGD706]

My first car was almost my last...a 1967 Chevrolet Corvair. Corvairs had a rear-mounted horizontally opposed 6-cylinder air-cooled engine and 4-wheel independent coil spring suspension. The rear engine placement and lack of any weight in the front gave me a ride I'll never forget. It was a manual 3 speed and I wanted to see how fast it would go, so a friend of mine and I took it for a run on the local expressway.
Around 95mph, I felt the steering get rather light and was surprised that I could actually twirl the steering wheel around without changing the direction of travel (which was starting to head up about that time). Seems that with no spoiler on the front end and no weight in the front trunk, the car was doing wheelies at 95+mph.
After that, i placed a 50lb bag of sand in the front.
http://www.mkellstra...myvair2_med.jpg
http://www.mkellstra...myvair1_med.jpg

[Nikos Spagnol]

The famous "Corvair - undriveable at any speed"

I never drove any "****" car that I utterly hated.

The worst of them (it's not a big list) was a Fiat Palio my dad had some years ago. It seems its fuel tank was badly repaired after an accident, so everytime we filled the tank, it would spoil gasoline some meters later, on the fuel hole (I don't know the right name for it).

It was a 1.0 liter - yes, 1.0, they are rather common in Brazil since our petrol is too expensive - 8 valve engine, but not too slow, since the car is light. But once the air conditioner was on, and you're travelling uphill, man, you would suffer.

But in one occasion, I got that thing at some 130+ kph! It roared!

[dretceterini]

An Austin America automatic...basically an MG 1100 with the 1275 motor

[Lazarus II]

Originally posted by WGD706
My first car was almost my last...a 1967 Chevrolet Corvair. Corvairs had a rear-mounted horizontally opposed 6-cylinder air-cooled engine and 4-wheel independent coil spring suspension. The rear engine placement and lack of any weight in the front gave me a ride I'll never forget. It was a manual 3 speed and I wanted to see how fast it would go, so a friend of mine and I took it for a run on the local expressway.
Around 95mph, I felt the steering get rather light and was surprised that I could actually twirl the steering wheel around without changing the direction of travel (which was starting to head up about that time). Seems that with no spoiler on the front end and no weight in the front trunk, the car was doing wheelies at 95+mph.
After that, i placed a 50lb bag of sand in the front.
http://www.mkellstra...myvair2_med.jpg
http://www.mkellstra...myvair1_med.jpg

I loved my '68 Corvair.
I replaced the 6 with a 350 LT1 Chevy mid-engine (350hp), V12 Jag rad up front. Even got 26mpg at 65mph and would pull the front wheels grabbing 2nd gear!

[Geza Sury]

Back to the original question...

Originally posted by Graham Clayton
Why did Alboreto consider this his worst F1 GP? Was it purely the car?

It was not only a bad car, it was huge. John Watson (Eurosport's commentator at that time) said it was the biggest thing in the paddock

Alboreto's Grand Prix carrier went into a steep decline that year and looked as though he would retire from Formula One. Someone asked him if he wanted to race Indycars the following season. His reply was: "I've been driving one all year"

[bill moffat]

Mario Andretti tasted the best of both worlds. The sublime Lotus 78/79 gained a big and was memorably described as being painted on the track.

A decade earlier Mario struggled with the Can-Am Honker (was there ever a more apt name for a racing car...). He himself described it as his worst ever car. Team owner's name Paul Newman was emblazoned prominently across the nose of the Honker, Mario's polite suggestion was that they might swap roles; Newman to drive the car whilst Mario's name adorns the snout...

[ian senior]

It's probably worth extending the subject of this thread, as some have done already, to road cars. It's only fair to share information amongst this community of like minded souls. Sometimes we need all the help we can get.

So my advice is:

NEVER, EVER, DRIVE A MITSUBISHI SHOGUN PININ.

It's probably a message that you have already received, and let's be honest - who the hell would want one anyway? I was stuffed up with one of these horrors as a hire car for a business trip. Unsafe at any speed applies in this case too. I've driven some rough old stuff in my time, on two whels and four, but never, ever, have I felt frightened behind the wheel as I did with this thing. So, I repeat:

NEVER, EVER, DRIVE A MITSUBISHI SHOGUN PININ.

PS: Special offer from Mitsubishi: all Shogun Pinins now come with a course of treatment from a chiropractor.

[bill moffat]

Like most of us who post on TNF I guess we have a passion for cars and driving. I have recently bought my 17 year old son a 1100cc Ford Fiesta. OK it has approximately 1/5th of the power of my own road car but I can enjoy driving it, back to the basics Weber carburettor and all.

I'm sad enough that I can still get out of bed early at the weekends just to have a drive. Even in a world of speed cameras, speed bumps and obscene taxation driving can still be FUN. On trips away I often end up in a hire car, but even in "bread and butter" cars there can be entertainment : the Focus' chassis, diesel Golf's stump-pulling torque and the cheek of the MINI.

There is one exception, I hired a Citroen C4 for a trip around Scotland last year. Never has a car inspired me less. No real sense of "driving", no feel of the road, cumbersome cornering and an overwhelming sense of blandness. My lower back took a week to recover, my brain longer.

[Garagiste]

That's because a hire car is the fastest kind of car on the road - even quicker than an Astramax!

The very worst car I ever had the misfortune to drive has to be the Volvo 340 Variomatic. Utterly dreadful in every respect.

[Racecar]

In my 58 years I've driven a lot of cars. A lot. My very first road car was a 1958 Austin Healy 100/6; my first racecar was a Lotus 18. The cars came and went over the years ... some I would keep for a coupla years, some years there would be 3 or 4 different cars. Some were good, some bad, some indifferent ..


but the hands-down biggest piece if crap was a sky-blue VW Beetle. I don't even remember the year ... I got rid of it after I'd owned it for exactly one month. Bleaahhh.

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Nikos Spagnol
The famous "Corvair - undriveable at any speed"

Ralph Nader? I thought it was "Unsafe at any speed" ?

[Teapot]

Few years ago the Italian magazine Quattroruote published an article where they asked 14 drivers to say something about the worst car they had driven in their careers.

Here are some excerpts:

Michele Alboreto, 1993 Lola T93/30 Ferrari

After only three laps at the Estoril track I felt like I had been fooled. I came back to the pits and
said:"We have to make another car, this one is good for the scrapyard"

Chris Amon, 1974 Amon AF101 Ford

After eleven years of frustration I had clear in my mind what I wanted from a racing car and I
took the decision of building my taylor-made F1. I adopted all the up-to-date techniques: fuel
tank right on the centre of gravity, titanium torsion bars and so on. But it revealed to be a project
far too ambitious for my finances. I was confident that my testing-skill would had been enough to
develop the car, but everytime I tried do drive it, something broke.

Mario Andretti, 1972 Honker II

The first time I drove It, my hair raised under the helmet: on straights, at 300 km/h it raised its
nose, as it was about to take off. There was no way to keep it. It was a nightmare with no way
out, 'cause, back to the pits, I was surrounded by a crowd of engineers that simply didn't care
about what I was saying.

Ivan Capelli, 1992 Ferrari F92A

I figured out quite soon that the car was a lemon. It was slow, cumbersome, and unpredictable.
Alesi managed to drive over these flaws, with his aggressive style, but my smoother and more
linear style didn't suit the car: as I tried to force it into corners, it flew out of the track

Emerson Fittipaldi, 1971 Lotus 56B

The problem was that you had to push on brakes and throttle at the same time, causing an
impressive clash between the two opposite forces. Approaching an hairpin you had to keep
the revs high, to avoid the turbine lag on the following acceleration, and the risk was to
overcook the brakes and to go straight at the next corner. Every minute I drove it, with long
flames bursting out from the turbine exhausts near my head, I feared it could be my last


Bruno Giacomelli, 1990 Life F190

Rocchi had been a great name of Maranello fame since 1949, but our adventure was an utter
let-down: we never managed to prequalify. The engine was giving out a mere 360 hp, against
the 800 hp of the Honda and the car's top speed was some 100 km/h slower than Mclaren
best figure


More to come tomorrow...and please forgive me for the mistakes in the translation from Italian.


P.s: the worst car I have ever driven is a friend's methane propelled Skoda Felicia: the lack of thrill due to that engine was largerly compensated by the almost random and in any case totally inadeguate response of the steering wheel!

[RTH]

Originally posted by bill moffat
Like most of us who post on TNF I guess we have a passion for cars and driving. I have recently bought my 17 year old son a 1100cc Ford Fiesta. OK it has approximately 1/5th of the power of my own road car but I can enjoy driving it, back to the basics Weber carburettor and all.

I'm sad enough that I can still get out of bed early at the weekends just to have a drive. Even in a world of speed cameras, speed bumps and obscene taxation driving can still be FUN. On trips away I often end up in a hire car, but even in ..........

Bill, hire an Elise for a weekend from a Lotus dealer and report back.

[dmj]

Originally posted by Teapot
Few years ago the Italian magazine Quattroruote published an article where they asked 14 drivers to say something about the worst car they had driven in their careers.

Aren't these the same drivers and their nominated cars as in Motorsport series? Perhaps even the same sentences?

[WGD706]

Originally posted by bill moffat
On trips away I often end up in a hire car, but even in "bread and butter" cars there can be entertainment : the Focus' chassis, diesel Golf's stump-pulling torque and the cheek of the MINI.

How I wish I had those alternatives (or at least the common sense not to ask for an economy car)when my wife and I went to the hills of San Francisco and Marin County, California for her 25th high school reunion.
We were saddled with a Geo Metro...a tiny 55 horsepower, 1.0 liter three cylinder engine that ran like an asthmatic sewing machine up the hills of the surrounding mountains. Forget about turning on the air conditioner....I could have put my foot out the door and pushed it faster.
Great gas mileage and it was a joy to drive on the twisty roads of Mount Tam but I kept getting passed by people on bicycles.

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by RTH


Bill, hire an Elise for a weekend from a Lotus dealer and report back.

Funnily enough I've spent some time in an Elise and it did nothing for me compared to my faithful old S4 Elan. I couldn't get comfortable (is that what you're getting at?) and the view out of the sharp end reminded me of a beach buggy. I took it around Silverstone in the wet and the view out of the rear as I exited Stowe backwards was not too clever either..

[Geza Sury]

Originally posted by Teapot
More to come tomorrow...and please forgive me for the mistakes in the translation from Italian.

Excellent post Teapot, I'm waiting for the second part

[Teapot]

It's time for the second batch...

Dan Gurney, 1960 Jaguar E-Type

It's a fine example of how a wrong set-up can spoil a racing car. It frightened me at LeMans'
tests: as the feeblest wind blew, the car weaved all around the track. I found myself spinning
under sudden rain at 270 km/h. I was about to give up when I figured out what was wrong:
the rear wheels camber had been regulated to make the car nimbler in the twisty sections,
thus upsetting high speed stability [/]

Alan Jones, 1987 Toyota 87C

The rear wing wasn't very effective and I suggested to move it further backwards and a little
higher, but the Japanese engineers told me that it was impossible without upsetting the
whole design. Eventually, I offered to pay for this revamp: we immediately gained 1 sec. per
lap


Riccardo Patrese, 1986 Euroracing 185T Alfa Romeo

It was slow and unreliable, even at a first sight. Mr.Pavanello (the team owner) imposed his
ideas on the designers, forcing them to ineffective compromises. The Alfa engine was
unbeliavably thirsty, and we had to embark a huge amount of fuel in order to finish races. The
turbochargers were extremely frail, so we couldn't develop the car. The team was living in total
chaos: the engineers were against the team boss, who thought that the drivers were the
culprits...and the drivers, on the other hand, put the blame on the engine

Walter Röhrl, 1984 Audi Sport Quattro

[i] It was lighter and shorter than the previous model and the engine was more powerful, but to
shorten the wheelbase and to move the weight backwards to enhance the car agility was, in
my opinion, a mistake. The car was terribly nervous and unbalanced, with a rear-end very easy
to upset

Third and last part to come after lunch!

[Teapot]

Last three!

Jackie Stewart, 1971 Lola T260 Can-Am

It was a very fast car, but I had to wrestle with it every minute to keep it on the track. It was
prone to lift the nose, such great was the downforce provided by the big rear wing. The
understeer was overwhelming and once, on the Mont Tremblant hump, I nearly took flight. The
only way we found to balance the car was to fit a gigantic front wing, that looked like a steam
locomotive's bull-bar

John Watson, 1979 McLaren M28

The first Mclaren's wing-car was 7 second per lap slower than my old Brabham and it was
impossible to drive: at one speed it would behave in a way, at another speed it would react in
another, impredictable way. The problem was that the chassis was as stiff as a paper bag, due to
the very narrow central section, opposited to wide side-pontoons.

Duilio Truffo (chief tester of the magazine and driving instructor, former race driver)
1981 LeMans Ferrari 512 BB Long Nose Scuderia Bellancauto (if you can't remember the car,
I've found this picture: click here )

It was very streamlined and it could reach over 340 Km/h but it also was very easy to upset at
the slightest degree of pitch and at high speed turning the wheel was a herculean task

[ray b]

Originally posted by Lazarus II

I loved my '68 Corvair.
I replaced the 6 with a 350 LT1 Chevy mid-engine (350hp), V12 Jag rad up front. Even got 26mpg at 65mph and would pull the front wheels grabbing 2nd gear!

a buddy built two of them 66 vairs one was a drag/street car
the other was a scca club racer that was a multi-time winner at Moroso in west palm beach
untill a guy got a pure race BMW 3.5cslr in the mid 70's
then the BMW could just beat him at about 20 times the v8-vairs cost to build


and ""Ralph Nader? I thought it was "Unsafe at any speed" ?""
nader was a IDIOT about cars like most potlickers and beancounters
BTW GM droped the swing axels and went full independent befor the book came out
post 65 vairs had the vetts rear set up

but thanks to nader I drove a 1/2doz vairs as they were cheaper to replace then fix in the 70's
ever for simple stuff like a brake job