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No Ferrari engine for Sauber in 2006?


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#1 wagner

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 12:19

Don't know if this has been posted already but this doesn't suit in Sauber 2005:

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Ensi vuodeksi Sauber joutuu hakemaan moottorit muualta. Pitkä yhteiselo Ferrarin moottoritoimituksilla päättyy, kun 2006 kaikki siirtyvät 2,4-litraiseen V8-kokoon.
- Sauberin kannattaa etsiä ilmaista moottoria vuodelle 2006 - mutta ei meiltä. Jos hän löytää sellaisen, onneksi olkoon vaan, Ferrarin tallipäällikkö Jean Todt evästää.


Jean Todt says Sauber should look elsewhere if they hope free engines for 2006. Unlike the paper writes about Ferrari and Sauber parting ways as the switch to V8 comes, I rather think Sauber financial situation has changed due to lost sponsor. Or maybe the teams are getting more distinct for other reasons and there will not be bargain.

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#2 Shockabuku

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 12:52

Perhaps Mr Todt is not happy that Peter Sauber chose to side with the other teams in wanting to significantly reduce testing, have a single tyre supplier, etc.

#3 kos

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 13:02

I do not think that anything changed - Sauber always paid for the engine, so Todt is just stating obvious: if Sauber wants free engines, he has to look elsewhere. So what?

#4 StickShift

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 13:27

There's been a pretty strong rumour, even mentioned in the weekly grapevine, that Sauber will develop their own 2.4L V8 engines inhouse for 2006.

Sauber has the engine guru, the team has the R&D capabilities, and Petronas has the money. And with the 2006 rule changes, they'll never have as good an oppurtunity to start on a level playing field.

Sauber are not in a dire financial position. They are making the moves to take the next step.

#5 kos

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 13:32

Sauber are not in a dire financial position. They are making the moves to take the next step.


Yeah, that was my first thought when I saw the lines of their new car. I really hope that they will make it big time :up:

#6 pgouvea

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 14:07

I agree. New rules, new steps. Sauber is a unique independent team in F1. :up:

#7 wagner

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 15:09

Originally posted by StickShift
There's been a pretty strong rumour, even mentioned in the weekly grapevine, that Sauber will develop their own 2.4L V8 engines inhouse for 2006.

Sauber has the engine guru, the team has the R&D capabilities, and Petronas has the money. And with the 2006 rule changes, they'll never have as good an oppurtunity to start on a level playing field.

Indeed, that would be the best moment start producing engines, the second chance will not come. Would be cool if Sauber took the challenge. They have always produced decent cars so why not engines? Sure they propably wouldn't build exactly as great engines as Ferrari but at least they could race Ferrari, given the odd chance :up:

#8 Dudley

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 15:11

Originally posted by kos


Yeah, that was my first thought when I saw the lines of their new car. I really hope that they will make it big time :up:


Exactly the opposite of my first thought when I saw Jordan like waves of solid paint on said car...

#9 F1Champion

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 15:23

I really don't think that Sauber have the funds to develop a successful engine.
At the moment they have a good budget but its still pretty tight and they hardly have lots of surplus cash to go testing like the other top teams. They have enough money to develop their chassis throughout the season although they don't run their wind tunnel 24/7 and don't do that much testing.

If they want to have a engine that can compete with manufacturers like BMW, Toyota, Mercedes, Ferrari etc they are going to have to compete with them for expenditure as well. Considering the amount of money that these manufacturers spend ($30m) it seems to me that they just can't compete.
Believe me I want Sauber to take the next step because its a well-run independent team but I can't see it happening unlike they find a load of cash from somewhere.

#10 Dudley

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 15:31

Considering the amount of money that these manufacturers spend ($30m)


I don't think that would keep the BMW program in toilet paper.

#11 xype

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 15:35

Originally posted by F1Champion
Considering the amount of money that these manufacturers spend (~$300m) it seems to me that they just can't compete.



There, fixed that for you.

#12 Racer Joe

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 16:52

Originally posted by xype


There, fixed that for you.


:lol:

Sauber is supposed to be spending around 30M USD for the Ferrari engine supply per year. Unless they got big money coming in from somewhere, it just isn't viable to do it on their own. Besides they have lost Red Bull's sponsorship which must be stinging.

Anyway, wasn't Mario Thiessen making some noises about being perhaps able to supply a second team in the future?

#13 Tuxy

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 17:04

Sauber will be running Toyota Power to 2006. Jordan only has 1 year contract with Toyota, I'm sure Sauber would be a more attractive offer to run V8's than Jordan.

#14 eoin

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 17:21

Originally posted by Tuxy
Sauber will be running Toyota Power to 2006. Jordan only has 1 year contract with Toyota, I'm sure Sauber would be a more attractive offer to run V8's than Jordan.


If I was toyota I would prefer to help a weak team, instead of giving one of my direct competitors a cheap powerful engine.

#15 xype

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 18:13

I think most manufacturers might end up providing engines to "customer" teams. It's good PR, especialls if those teams then beat some of the competitiong. And even if they beat the "engine provider", it can be spun into "See just how good out engine is" by the PR department. If Jordan beats Toyota, Toyota will reluctlantly admit that their engine rocks and that it's only their german office that sucks at designing Formula 1 cars. But still they can say that their engine was what made Jordan take a step forward, for example.

I think if anything, Sauber will be talking to BMW. The bavarians are probably happier to work with the swiss than with some russians or englishmen (not to misunderstand, I'm speaking about the mentality and geographic distance only).

#16 Tuxy

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 18:18

Originally posted by eoin


If I was toyota I would prefer to help a weak team, instead of giving one of my direct competitors a cheap powerful engine.


Yeh you make a point...They are both and engine and chassis, if they were just and engine suppleir it woudl make more sense to support a stronger team. Still though...would be nice to see a Toyota in the Sauber then in the Jordan.

#17 RWDF1

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 20:21

I think we will see Sauber in the same situation Jordan is in now within 5 years. Jordan had a great few years, started developing the team and enlarge the team, increase factory size just like Jordan was doing untill they ran out of money.

Sauber have spent alot of money, and have lost a sponsor, just like the case with Jordan when B&H cut support and DHL/DP left the team. Jordan hired a ex champion in Damon Hill, Sauber have done the same with JV

I hope I am wrong, but I have a feeling Sauber wont be so strong in a few years time

#18 revmeister

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 22:12

Originally posted by RWDF1
I think we will see Sauber in the same situation Jordan is in now within 5 years. Jordan had a great few years, started developing the team and enlarge the team, increase factory size just like Jordan was doing untill they ran out of money.

Sauber have spent alot of money, and have lost a sponsor, just like the case with Jordan when B&H cut support and DHL/DP left the team. Jordan hired a ex champion in Damon Hill, Sauber have done the same with JV

I hope I am wrong, but I have a feeling Sauber wont be so strong in a few years time


I don't think that Peter Sauber and Eddie Jordan are all that comparable. Peter hasn't been losing million dollar law suits, for one thing! He also seems to take things one step at a time. Just watch what happens this year.

Big steps ahead!

#19 angst

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 00:57

Originally posted by revmeister


I don't think that Peter Sauber and Eddie Jordan are all that comparable. Peter hasn't been losing million dollar law suits, for one thing! He also seems to take things one step at a time. Just watch what happens this year.

Big steps ahead!


:up:

Absolutely agree. I get the impression that Peter Sauber knows exactly what he's doing. He seems to be working to some pretty long term plans.

As far as the Petronas engine goes, maybe with all the restrictions imposed on engine design for '06 it will be feasible for a smaller company to produce a competitive engine (in other words maybe Max got it right). Whatever transpires will do so because it moves Sauber forward - so if there is a Petronas motor in '06 it will be because it is a viable proposition, and that will be good news for F1......... I think.

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#20 The Vulcan

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 03:30

I'm sure Peter Sauber would have several options with him for engine supply - could be ripe for VW/Audi involvement through the Sauber team. :cool:

#21 Adkhan Sholeh

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 06:55

Regarding the new engine rule, to lost an engine supplier at this time won't make as big trouble as it was years ago. So, without Ferrari engine (if Todt really want to use his engine exclusively) I think it's just gonna make Peter Sauber a little busy negotiating BMW or Toyota or even Mercedes (remember to whom Mercedes supply engine before join forces with McLaren?).

And for the idea of developing its own engine, does anynone know how much Sauber budget this year?

#22 Jhope

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 07:20

Wasn't Team Sheik Akbar F1, or whatever they are supposed to be called, in line for Mercedes powerplants next season?

#23 xype

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 08:09

Originally posted by Adkhan Sholeh
And for the idea of developing its own engine, does anynone know how much Sauber budget this year?



I think it's around $100 million.