54 replies to this topic

[vintageautomobilia]

I wonder how many cars we all can list that were bodied by Carrozzeria Rocco Motto in Turin, Italy? Photos would be nice also!

It was said of Motto, if he had been alive at the same time as Michaelangelo, Michaelangelo would have been a second-rate metal man!

Here's a few I know (not in any particular order):

Delahaye 135 coupe in 1950 Carrera Panamericana, for Jean Trevoux (sp?)

Delahaye 175 coupe in 1951/52 Monte Carlo Rally

French Salmson sports car of about 1954

Cisitalia Aerodynamic coupe ("The Box") in Mille Miglia

Cisitalia D46

Cisitalia 204 Spider Sport

Cisitalia Tipo 360

Siata Daina spider for Luigi Segre

Siata 750 spider siluro

Stanguellini spider

Nardi Bisiluro

[JB Miltonian]

One of the Lancia Appia 2nd Series "chassis" prototypes (type 812.01) was bodied by CA-MO (Motto). There is a picture in the Lancia Ardea/Appia book, page 55. The production table in "La Lancia" says that 10 examples were built by "Como". This would have been between 1956 and 1959.

[dretceterini]

Peter:

Didn't I send you a copy of the 1998 article from some Italian magazine with photos of some of the cars?

Here are some:

3 Ferraris

a number of Renaults

at least one Cadillac in 1954/55

a number of Fiat 1100/103s

a Jag XK 140

Salmson 2300S

a healey 100/4

any number of small displacement Fiat based etceterinis

[Teapot]

We should add also:

1950 Frazer Nash Le Mans Replica #FNS 1/51 (car later rebodied as an "ordinary" Le Mans Replica)

1960 Lancia Flaminia "Loyramo" (designed by Loewy)

1963 Porsche 356 GTL (an order placed by Abarth)

[Carlo]

Photos would be nice also!

Ciao Carlo

[Cris]

He/they did a few MG TD's in the early 1950's also.

[GIGLEUX]

Delahaye 235
Talbots for Rosier and his friends
Samsons 2300S of Le Mans
Renault 4CV and Fregate specials for Louis Rosier.

[dretceterini]

one of the Bugatti Atlantics was also modified in the 1950s by Motto

[vintageautomobilia]

Originally posted by JB Miltonian
One of the Lancia Appia 2nd Series "chassis" prototypes (type 812.01) was bodied by CA-MO (Motto). There is a picture in the Lancia Ardea/Appia book, page 55. The production table in "La Lancia" says that 10 examples were built by "Como". This would have been between 1956 and 1959.

"CA-MO" was the telex address for Carrozzeria Rocco Motto, and those letters were at sometime incorporated into Motto's badge. In the quote above, JB, I think you meant to type "Camo" not "Como"?

Some Motto body badges are metal script, some are block letters, some have the word "Torino" included, and some are cloisonne with the Cisitalia 360 in the center.

Motto also did the 1952/53 Packard "funny car" for Jean Trevoux, for the Carrera Pan Americana. This was a tube-framed, alloy bodied, about 2/3 or 4/5 sized, modified straight-eight Packard engined, 1952 Packard look-a-like! After it was raced, this car disappeared into Mexico City somewhere, where Trevoux owned a restaurant. To my knowledge it has not yet surfaced.

Carlo, thanks for the photo of the Ferrari coupe. Where did you find this? Was it in a book? Please let me know how I can access it.

[dretceterini]

Didn't he also do the Delahaye that raced in the Carrara PA? That car sufaced a few years ago with an asking price of something like $160,000, if I remember correctly

[vintageautomobilia]

Stu,

This is the Delahaye that I mentioned in my initial post, the one for Jean Trevoux. Quite a few years ago it was offered to me at substanially less than the figure you mention. I really wanted it but just couldn't swing it. I wonder where it is today? This car is quite similar in profile to Motto's Cisitalia "Box" of 1947.

I wonder about the fairly large (at least for Motto) number of French cars done by Motto. Can anyone explain the French connection?

[vintageautomobilia]

Originally posted by GIGLEUX
Delahaye 235
Talbots for Rosier and his friends
Samsons 2300S of Le Mans
Renault 4CV and Fregate specials for Louis Rosier.

GIGLEUX:

Can you explain the fairly large number of cars that Carrazzeria Rocco Motto did for French customers?

Anyone?

[dretceterini]

Although not designed by Motto, I think he built a substantial portion of cars designed by Michelotti

[MKIVJ6]

Ferrari 166s 002C was rebodied by Motto. That body was removed by Stan Nowack who commisioned a 159s body for 002C. Stan offered the Motto body for $350. Not sure what happended to it. I'm in the process of building a 166 nose (Like the one when 002C ran at the MM)
I'm keeping Stan's 159 nose and will be able to easily fit either one. There's an interesting article on some of this here:
http://www.velocetod...e/people_34.php

and here:

http://ferrarichat.c...ead.php?t=44512

(Motto body in post # 50)

[GIGLEUX]

Originally posted by vintageautomobilia


GIGLEUX:

Can you explain the fairly large number of cars that Carrazzeria Rocco Motto did for French customers?

Anyone?

From what I know Motto was renowned as being:
-of good quality
-working fast
-not too expensive

[vintageautomobilia]

I've never read about a link between Motto and Michelotti. Perhaps Motto did something Michelotti designed, but Motto was more known as a carrozzeria for lightweight competition cars, and one-off specials. What Michelotti cars did you have in mind?

I also just thought of another Motto bodied car: The Biondetti MM Jaguar-Ferrari Special. It sort of looks like a large Cisitalia D46.

[vintageautomobilia]

In the recent thread about Tony Pompeo and the cars he imported in the 1950's, it was mentioned that AUTOMOBILE QUARTERLY 44-3 had an article about him. In that article there are about 17 photos of "his" cars, and five of these cars have bodies by Carrozzeria Rocco Motto!

On the first page of that article (AQ page 46) there's a photo of a Motto bodied Nardi, probably an 1100.

Then on AQ page 49, there's that "missing" Alfa-Nardi 6C-2500 coupe that ended up with a Wayne GMC/Chevy Six, and supposedly resides somewhere in Southern California. The body on it is also by Motto.

On AQ page 51, there's a good photo of a Motto bodied Bandini with a Siata 1500 engine. (In the caption it claims that this car was long thought to be the prototype Siata 208! I don't know who thought that, obviously they never asked me -- I have several photos of this car that I've had since at least 1951/52, that identify it as a Bandini-Siata 1500.)

Then on AQ page 54 there's another Motto bodied Bandini spider (in the caption misidentified as a Motto bodied Cisitalia 1100).

On AQ page 55 there's a photo of the grid at Thompson Raceway in 1953. On the grid there is the Motto bodied MG of Fred Allen, and Jim Pauley's Bandini which might also have been bodied by Motto (or not).

Finally, on AQ page 57, there's a color picture of Perry Fina standing next to another Bandini 1100 with a Maserati style grill. This car has a very Motto look about it, but of course it could be by someone else.

[dretceterini]

Originally posted by vintageautomobilia
I've never read about a link between Motto and Michelotti. Perhaps Motto did something Michelotti designed, but Motto was more known as a carrozzeria for lightweight competition cars, and one-off specials. What Michelotti cars did you have in mind?

I also just thought of another Motto bodied car: The Biondetti MM Jaguar-Ferrari Special. It sort of looks like a large Cisitalia D46.

I have seen a Michelotti design sketch very much like the Siata 208 spider, and as Motto did the 208 spiders...

[vintageautomobilia]

In the excellent Cisitalia book by Nino Balestra there is a photo of a Cisitalia "spider" attributed to Piero Frua. According to my information, that car has now been identified as being by Carrozzeria Motto. Interestingly, it has a large diameter round tube frame, much like an early Maserati. This car looks somewhat similar to my Motto-Cisitalia spider, although mine car has a different type of tube chassis frame. Mine is a larger diameter oval tube chassis that was done by Gilco, but was not their design.

Any other Motto information out there?

[2000 touring sp]

There is one significant car missing The Abarth Porsche, on witch Motta build the first ones

[dretceterini]

Yes, Rocco Motto did the coachwork on the Abarth Porsches...

[2000 touring sp]

This is some additional cars produced by Motto
Porsche 365B Carera GTL Abarth 1960 first 2 build by Motto
Austin Healey 1956
Some Fiat 1100
Ferrari 195 S
Ferrari 212 Export 1951
Lancia Aprillia more versions
The Lancia Flaminia "Loraymo" 1959
Jaguar XK 120 Boano/Raymond Loewy design
MG special 1953
Nardi Crosley 1954
Stranguellini 1100 1949
Siata 500 Record car 1946
Some Siata Barchetta
Talbot Lago Record T26 1952
But whey did he never, according to my knowledge, build any Alfa Romeo

[dretceterini]

Motto did all the Nardi/Alfa 6c2500 based cars



1) A spider with cycle fenders and an odd shark-like nose built circa
1936 with a 6c2300 motor (car S/N 50076?)

2, 3 and 4) 3 spiders with cycle fenders built in 1948 (9481, 9485, 94811)

5) A coupe which ran as race number 646 in the 1949 MM (S/N 9484)

6) A second coupe that ran as race number 647 in the 1949 MM
(slightly different coachwork; chassis ?)

7) A 1100cc Nardi barchetta spider that had an Alfa 6c2000 Nardi
modified motor stuffed into it in the late 1980s, but is in no way
a real Nardi/Alfa. This car has changed hands a number of times
in the last few years.

8?) A POSSIBLE 3rd coupe that looked identical to race number 646

9?) A POSSIBLE 4th cycle fendered spider built in 1948.

[2000 touring sp]

Have no intention to start an argue with you on this Stu, but in my eyes is those cars, Nardi cars and not Alfa.
To me its a bit strange, as Motto was a well renowned light weight chassis and body builder, who has build chassis and bodies to almost everybody, except to Alfa

[dretceterini]

No, I agree with you

It IS somewhat strange that Motto did not do the coachwork on any "real" Alfas (at least as far as I am aware)...although he may have actullay been the builder during one of the period he worked for a larger coachbuilding company. He did a LOT of work for Michelotti, for example. He might of had personal problems with someone at Alfa, but I have never seen anything in print on that...in fact there is VERY little in print on Motto at all!

Stu

[2000 touring sp]

The list of cars I posted in post 22, I have pictures of them all, some good, some bad but pictures.
But I am not able to find out have to put a picture in

[Clement]

Beautiful Talbot Body By Motto
See the french magazine Automobiles Classiques

[Trigwell]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Teapot
[B]We should add also:

1950 Frazer Nash Le Mans Replica #FNS 1/51 (car later rebodied as an "ordinary" Le Mans Replica)


Does anyone know any more about the Rocco Motto-bodied Frazer Nash? So far we know this: FNS 1/51 was the engine number and the chassis was 421/100/112. It was sold new by Frazer Nash to Ital Clarco in Milan and appeared at the Turin Motor Show in May 1950 with its Le Mans Replica body in place. Sometime later (in 1952-4?) it was given a coupe body Motto. It came back to the UK in 1976 via Colin Crabbe, still with its coupe body, and then was rebuilt with a reproduction Le Mans Replica body in about 1980. The Motto body was reused on a Bentley chassis.

James Trigwell

[MOB]

..

[MOB]

we know Motto did not less than six Bandini bodies.
All Bandini chassis, excluding the first, have oval tubes frame chassis builded by Bandini.(thin 1,8 mm areonuautics source) patent 499883; and aluminium body, exept more recent sport prototype (fiber glass and aluminium)

1) This is the first Bandini, based on 1100 fiat cutted and hided in "buunker" during second war world it was reassembled in 1946 with substantial adjustment on rear indipendent suspensions.
Body is motto.
engine fiat 1100.
now it is in italy, near Milan.


The driver was my oncle Ilario.


at Monza track with first owner.(1950)


2) 1947. Bandini 1100 bialbero.
engine based on 1100 fiat but head was DOHC (chain&gear)
Chassis: oval tubes patent frame, front wheels indipendent suspension quadrilateral overlying with sping coassial with absorber inclined;
rear suspension longitudinal spring leaf

Body: spider, aluminium by Motto wiht small glasses.

exported in USA by Tony Pompeo

here with eng. h.c. Ilario


here with Giovanni Bracco (in U.S.A.)



3-6) 1950/1952 Bandini-Crosley SOHC, Bandini-Siata, Bandini-offy. Sport Siluro cycle-fender model.
body: siluro in alluminium with cycle fender 4 buit by Motto oters by Bandini.
From 1953 all bodies was bandini exept two "berlinetta" : 750 c.c. gt coupè Zagato 1957 and 1000 c.c. gt coupè Corna 1963.
Chassis: oval tubes patent Bandini weight 45 lbs.


sebring 1952 driver Beau Clarcke/C. Hassan Bandini Crosley 750c.c. sport siluro:


madison square garden jan. 1953


yes, jim pauley's car was Motto bodied Bandini.
Could i have or see a copy of that AQ?

Thanks
Michele O. B.

[vintageautomobilia]

Thanks Michele for such great photographs!

Rocco Motto was an artist in metal!

These cars have very similar shapes to my Motto-Cisitalia.

I am still looking for the the Italian history of my Motto-Cisitalia spider corsa, from 1948/49 to 1954, when it was purchased out of Carrozzeria Rocco Motto, by Virgil Exner Sr, and Paul Farago, and shipped to America.

Can anyone help?

Peter

[vintageautomobilia]

Originally posted by dretceterini
No, I agree with you

It IS somewhat strange that Motto did not do the coachwork on any "real" Alfas (at least as far as I am aware)...although he may have actullay been the builder during one of the period he worked for a larger coachbuilding company. He did a LOT of work for Michelotti, for example. He might of had personal problems with someone at Alfa, but I have never seen anything in print on that...in fact there is VERY little in print on Motto at all!

Stu

I still know of NO definative connection between Michelotti's designs and coachwork by Carrozzeria Rocco Motto. Motto and Nardi were good friends and I think that explains why so many Nardi cars have bodies by Motto. I agree, the Alfa powered Nardi automobiles are Nardi's - not Alfa's, but I don't know why it appears that no known Alfa's have Motto coachwork. I believe Rocco Motto did his apprenticeship, and worked at Stabilimenti Farina -- and they certainly did Alfa's. Interesting!

[Arjan de Roos]

Being passionately involved in model cars as well, Motto did strike a special cord. MG Model Plus made a nice highly detailed model (kit and hand built) of Ferrari 212E 0094E Spyder. The real thing can be seen here:

http://www.qv500.com/ferrari212p2.php

BTW Top Model made a die cast of it as well.

Check out both F212's Motto here:

http://www.barchetta...ndex/index.html

[Arjan de Roos]

A MG TD Motto can be seen on the bottom of this page :

http://www.mgcars.or...mgtd_racing.htm

[vintageautomobilia]

The Motto MG looks somewhat similar to my Motto-Cisitalia 1100 spider. But a lot of the Motto bodied cars look somewhat similar, especially the late 1940's - early 1950's barchettas/spiders. I saw this MG for sale at the Rick Cole auction in Monterey several years ago, and I thought at the time it was overdone. I was glad I had the chance to see it and see how much it really differed from my car.

[vintageautomobilia]

On the 2006 Mille Miglia retro in Italy there was a STANGA barchetta with a body by Carrozzeria Motto. Since there were only about seven Stanga's built, I wonder how many were bodied by Motto?

[dretceterini]

Originally posted by vintageautomobilia
On the 2006 Mille Miglia retro in Italy there was a STANGA barchetta with a body by Carrozzeria Motto. Since there were only about seven Stanga's built, I wonder how many were bodied by Motto?

I've seen photos of 5, and they all appear to be Motto to me. There is an article on Stanga in one of the yearly Mille Miglia retro books, but I don't have it. I think it was 1990, 1991 or 1992. One of the 5 I've seen pictures of looks kind of like a miniature "factory bodied" Fiat 8V coupe...

[vintageautomobilia]

Originally posted by Clement
Beautiful Talbot Body By Motto
See the french magazine Automobiles Classiques

In about 1953, Motto rebodied one of the Talbot-Lago T-26 GS racers for Guy Mairesse. This was originally a two-seat cycle fendered car, chassis number 110057, that raced at LeMans. There are pictures of this car, both with the standard body and with the Motto body, in the Talbot book, also a picture of it after the crash which I believe took Mairesse's life. Is this the car pictured in the french magazine Automobiles Classiques - or yet another car?

[vintageautomobilia]

One of the Lancia's bodied by Carrozzeria Rocco Motto was in the 1948 Aosta - Gran San Bernardo race, driven by Ferdinando Gatta. This very pretty "barchetta" finished !st in the 1500 class and 4th overall (if my italian is correct). I assume this is Aprilia based??

Another very pretty Motto bodied race car was the Nardi Crosley which ran in the 1954 Le Mans, car number 53.

In 1954 a nice looking coupe based on a Renault 4CV was done by Motto - labeled G.F.H. - although I don't know the significance of those initials.

Motto also bodied another Lancia Aprilia racer. This spider/barchetta with a special tube frame was driven by Giovanni Basso in the 1956 Frascati - Tuscolo (I'm not familiar with this race).

[Graham Gauld]

The Lanca Appia based Rocco Motto spyder was one of the interesting cars at a Concours in San Marino run by Maranello Rosso where I was a judge. I will try and get someone to put up the picture of the car
The owner said it was one of two. Finished in dark red and built in 1947.

[vintageautomobilia]

Originally posted by vintageautomobilia

Motto also bodied another Lancia Aprilia racer. This spider/barchetta with a special tube frame was driven by Giovanni Basso in the 1956 Frascati - Tuscolo (I'm not familiar with this race).

Graham,

The Motto bodied Lancia you sent me a picture of, is this car that I had mentioned in the preceeding post. It looks pretty much the same now as it did in 1956. I wonder about the build date of 1947 though, the body style looks more like about 1952 or 53.

[dretceterini]

Here is a link to a photo of the Motto body on Ferrari 002C

http://www.ferrarich...=1&d=1105552057

[Marc Gefert]

Originally posted by vintageautomobilia


In about 1953, Motto rebodied one of the Talbot-Lago T-26 GS racers for Guy Mairesse. This was originally a two-seat cycle fendered car, chassis number 110057, that raced at LeMans. There are pictures of this car, both with the standard body and with the Motto body, in the Talbot book, also a picture of it after the crash which I believe took Mairesse's life. Is this the car pictured in the french magazine Automobiles Classiques - or yet another car?

In his article (" La belle indomptable" Automobiles classiques n°97, avril/mai 1999) Christian Descombe is talking about 110152

[Graham Gauld]

Brought up this thread again because I was in Modena last week with Francesco Stanguellini who always has interesting cars in his collection. Anyone driving near Modena should call in at the Stanguellini Fiat dealership on the Via Emilia to the eastern side of Modena. His museum is a treasure trove of cars and memorabilia for apart from his impressive Stanguellini collection he has a number of other interesting cars at the back that are worth looking at.
However two of his Stanguellini's caught my eye. One was a Stanguellini 1100 Chassis CS 01107 built in 1948 with a normal Stanguellini cigar body and raced once at an Italian hill climb by the factory before being sold to Aldo Bassi in Brescia. Following his death the car was sold to Francesco Montanari of Lugo who fitted a twin-cam Stanguellini engine to it - it was originally built with a single cam 1100cc engine - and had Carozzeria Motta to build a beautiful little barchetta body for it in 1952.
The other car was an earlier 1948 car with an 1100cc engine and a barchetta body by Ala d'Oro who had built a number of bodies for early Stanguellinis. It was sold to Count Luigi Scotti Rossi but in 1954 was sold to Giovanni de Filippis of Pavia whose daughter Maria-Teresa became a grand prix driver four years later with a Maserati 250F. The car is easily recognised by the chrome strips longitudinally down the hood of the car. Thought this might be interesting to the Italian coachwork enthusiasts.

[dretceterini]

There are at least 2 other Ala d'Oro bodied Stanguellinis that exist; one is the blue with a silver removeable hardtop and has been on a number of Mille Miglia retros, and the other is almost identical to the spider Graham has pictured, except it has a fog light sticking out from the grille.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
....in 1954 was sold to Giovanni de Filippis of Pavia whose daughter Maria-Teresa became a grand prix driver four years later with a Maserati 250F

Presumably this was the Stanguellini with which Maria-Teresa won an 1100 race at Syracuse in October 1954?

[dretceterini]

The history of the Ala d'Oro bodied car in the museum, as per Orsini's Stanguellini book

Chassis 286602
Engine 318959
1100cc FIAT pushrod with Stanguellini mods

4/27/48 coachwork finished by Ala d'Oro and car returned to Stanguellini
6/7/48 sold to Conte Scotti Luigi Rossi di Tiberio, registration PG12181
2/27/54 sold to Angelo Barberi AND Giuseppe Di Fillppi of Pavia, registration PV39588
2003 Acquired by Stanguellini museum


This is a link to a photo of the almost identical Ala d'Oro spider in Japan..

http://new.photos.ya...803212830408/49

[vintageautomobilia]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
Brought up this thread again because I was in Modena last week with Francesco Stanguellini who always has interesting cars in his collection. Anyone driving near Modena should call in at the Stanguellini Fiat dealership on the Via Emilia to the eastern side of Modena. His museum is a treasure trove of cars and memorabilia for apart from his impressive Stanguellini collection he has a number of other interesting cars at the back that are worth looking at.
However two of his Stanguellini's caught my eye. One was a Stanguellini 1100 Chassis CS 01107 built in 1948 with a normal Stanguellini cigar body and raced once at an Italian hill climb by the factory before being sold to Aldo Bassi in Brescia. Following his death the car was sold to Francesco Montanari of Lugo who fitted a twin-cam Stanguellini engine to it - it was originally built with a single cam 1100cc engine - and had Carozzeria Motta to build a beautiful little barchetta body for it in 1952.
The other car was an earlier 1948 car with an 1100cc engine and a barchetta body by Ala d'Oro who had built a number of bodies for early Stanguellinis. It was sold to Count Luigi Scotti Rossi but in 1954 was sold to Giovanni de Filippis of Pavia whose daughter Maria-Teresa became a grand prix driver four years later with a Maserati 250F. The car is easily recognised by the chrome strips longitudinally down the hood of the car. Thought this might be interesting to the Italian coachwork enthusiasts.

Graham,

Thanks for posting the Stanguellini photos. The Motto bodied car is very pretty and quite typical of Rocco Motto's excellent work. Except for the cognisenti, Carrozzeria Rocco Motto, for many years was quite obscure. It has only been recently that Motto's talent has been somewhat recognized.

[vintageautomobilia]

Carrozzeria Rocco Motto also bodied several Ermini cars, including two 1100 berlinettas. Plus he also bodied the Giaur San Remo berlinetta and several other Giaur autos.

[PRUNET]

Louis Rosier who had several cars bodied by Ca-Mo might also have entrusted his 375GP Ferrari to this other Turin coacbuilder in order to transform it into a sports car. The car ended down under with Ron Roycroft who discarded the enveloping body and had replaced by another open- wheels bodywork.

Will the image show ? So confusing !http://Pena%20Rhin.JPG