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#301 Vitesse2

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 17:12

As anyone who saw my original post in PC will recall, I once heard a BBC reporter covering all the bases for Harvey Weinstein, calling him 'Winesteen', 'Winestine' and even 'Winestain' - all within one report!



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#302 kayemod

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 18:00

Names change all over the place. Also, I don’t think you’ve changed anything in your Sarkozy example because you have to allow for local accents.

You're right on changes and preferences, we can call ourselves almost anything we like, and correct pronunciation is hard to describe in print, but for Nicolas Sarkozy, unless you're a French peasant, has the emphasis on the beginning and end of the first name, and you shouldn't sound the final 'S' at all, the BBC started saying it like the English christian name nicholas, fairly even stress. Also, normal French pronunciation would stress the the ending of the surname. The early BBC way had it rhyming with tea cozy, even stress again, which is just plain wrong. There are many similar examples, but most UK people are absolute crap at languages, and sadly and shamefully, our National Broadcaster is much the same these days.


Edited by kayemod, 13 February 2020 - 18:01.


#303 Sterzo

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 22:19

As anyone who saw my original post in PC will recall, I once heard a BBC reporter covering all the bases for Harvey Weinstein, calling him 'Winesteen', 'Winestine' and even 'Winestain' - all within one report!

I thought it was carpets.



#304 BRG

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 17:57

You're right on changes and preferences, we can call ourselves almost anything we like, and correct pronunciation is hard to describe in print, but for Nicolas Sarkozy, unless you're a French peasant, has the emphasis on the beginning and end of the first name, and you shouldn't sound the final 'S' at all, the BBC started saying it like the English christian name nicholas, fairly even stress. Also, normal French pronunciation would stress the the ending of the surname. The early BBC way had it rhyming with tea cozy, even stress again, which is just plain wrong. There are many similar examples, but most UK people are absolute crap at languages, and sadly and shamefully, our National Broadcaster is much the same these days.

As Sarkozy is a Hungarian name, why should we care how the French pronounce it?   

 

I will lose sleep over this business only when the French, Italians, Americans and indeed everybody else start to pronounce British names correctly.  Which will never happen, so let's just not worry about it.



#305 Charlieman

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 18:53

Number One? How do you pronounce Ferenc Szisz?



#306 Charlieman

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 19:04

As anyone who saw my original post in PC will recall, I once heard a BBC reporter covering all the bases for Harvey Weinstein, calling him 'Winesteen', 'Winestine' and even 'Winestain' - all within one report!

The Weinstein, Epstein, Jock Stein mispronunciations confirm my rule of thumb: Never trust anyone who can't say their own name properly.

 

Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair separately employed one of two brothers called Powell who pronounced it 'Pole' -- see also the implausibly posh novelist Anthony Powell.



#307 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 20:56

Funny you should say that...

 

I'm sure I heard Leo pronounce his name two ways, both 'Gaygen' and 'Geegan.'



#308 Gabrci

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 21:46

Number One? How do you pronounce Ferenc Szisz?

 

Ferenc is Ferentz, with the "e"s like the "a" in man. Szisz is sis as in sister. 



#309 Allan Lupton

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 23:01

The Weinstein, Epstein, Jock Stein mispronunciations confirm my rule of thumb: Never trust anyone who can't say their own name properly.

 

Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair separately employed one of two brothers called Powell who pronounced it 'Pole' -- see also the implausibly posh novelist Anthony Powell.

I agree about the "-stein" comment.

As for Powell/Pole I'd say not exactly so. I knew some members of a Powell family which numbered the founder of the Boy Scouts movement amongst it. He defined the pronunciation of his name (Baden Powell) thus:

Man, matron, maiden,
Please call it Baden.
Further for Powell,
Rhyme it with Noël.


 



#310 wolf sun

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 23:15

As Sarkozy is a Hungarian name, why should we care how the French pronounce it?   

 

I will lose sleep over this business only when the French, Italians, Americans and indeed everybody else start to pronounce British names correctly.  Which will never happen, so let's just not worry about it.

 

Quite a bold statement, this... Brexit allez, I say!



#311 2F-001

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 09:24

Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair separately employed one of two brothers called Powell who pronounced it 'Pole' -- see also the implausibly posh novelist Anthony Powell.

I worked, for a long time, with another of their brothers, where his surname was always pronounced pow-ull (pow as in Zap, Pow - Batman cartoon style).

So... no hard and fast rules - even within families!



#312 wenoopy

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 09:27

Why are we referring to BRITISH names? It seems to me that the discussion is centered only on English names and their sometimes odd pronunciations. The Welsh, Scots, Manx and Northern Irish have their own systems, and own conventions of pronunciation.

 

Stu Buchanan . 



#313 Tim Murray

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 09:50

Not forgetting the Channel Islands, where names with the same spelling (eg Langlois) are pronounced differently depending which island you’re on.

#314 PhantomRaspberryBlower

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 11:34

Has anyone tackled Fittipaldi yet? I think it was Clive James who reckoned it ought to be pronounced more like Fitchy-Patchy.


Edited by PhantomRaspberryBlower, 15 February 2020 - 11:35.


#315 Tim Murray

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 11:42

One of the earliest things TNF taught me when I first arrived here was that ‘Fittipaldi’ sounds like something rather rude in Swedish.

#316 RCH

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 11:50

I once had an appointment with a Mr. Mahoney, I was told it was pronounced Marney. Arrived at reception to be told; "we don't have a Mr. Marney do you mean Ma Ho Nee?"

 

Whilst we are on the subject of pronounciation I wish TV reporters would get the place of my birth right. Solihull should be So Lee Hull not Solly Hull.



#317 opplock

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 12:32

Has anyone tackled Fittipaldi yet? I think it was Clive James who reckoned it ought to be pronounced more like Fitchy-Patchy.

 

Everseenme Fitaballjoint. 

 

From a letter in Motoring News a week or two after the 1973 Race of Champions. A race won by Chevter Gethron. 



#318 Geoff E

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 13:06

Foreign F1 names pronounced by foreigners https://forvo.com/ev.../formula1_2019/



#319 ensign14

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 13:12


Whilst we are on the subject of pronounciation I wish TV reporters would get the place of my birth right. Solihull should be So Lee Hull not Solly Hull.

 

They're changing the name by adding Actually to it.

 

"Do you live in Birmingham?" "No, Solihull Actually."
 



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#320 kayemod

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 13:22

They're changing the name by adding Actually to it.

 

"Do you live in Birmingham?" "No, Solihull Actually."
 

It's twinned with Hove Actually.



#321 Vitesse2

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 13:37

It's twinned with Hove Actually.

"I understand you live in Fulham?" "No, East Barnes." :rolleyes:

 

I understand there are now people who pronounce Clapham and Balham (Gateway to the South) as Cla'am and Ba'am - to rhyme with ma'am. And Streatham has apparently become St Reatham for some! Residents of the supposedly posher northern bit of the rather unlovely 1960s Bristol overspill area called Yate (the canker on the face of Chipping Sodbury) have also been known to pronounce it Yaté.



#322 Bloggsworth

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 13:46

"I understand you live in Fulham?" "No, East Barnes." :rolleyes:

 

I understand there are now people who pronounce Clapham and Balham (Gateway to the South) as Cla'am and Ba'am - to rhyme with ma'am. And Streatham has apparently become St Reatham for some! Residents of the supposedly posher northern bit of the rather unlovely 1960s Bristol overspill area called Yate (the canker on the face of Chipping Sodbury) have also been known to pronounce it Yaté.

Is that the place where they do toothbrush  holesmanship?



#323 RCH

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 13:50

They're changing the name by adding Actually to it.

 

"Do you live in Birmingham?" "No, Solihull Actually."
 

A former colleague (from Wallsall) referred to Solihull as "the place where the pigeons fly upside down."



#324 MCS

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 15:31

"I understand you live in Fulham?" "No, East Barnes." :rolleyes:

 

I understand there are now people who pronounce Clapham and Balham (Gateway to the South) as Cla'am and Ba'am - to rhyme with ma'am. And Streatham has apparently become St Reatham for some! Residents of the supposedly posher northern bit of the rather unlovely 1960s Bristol overspill area called Yate (the canker on the face of Chipping Sodbury) have also been known to pronounce it Yaté.

Plenty in London, but the funniest I know of, although I suspect it's still rare, is Vauxhall - prounced "Vose all"

 

Give me strength.



#325 Allan Lupton

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 15:36

Plenty in London, but the funniest I know of, although I suspect it's still rare, is Vauxhall - prounced "Vose all"

 

Give me strength.

I'll raise you "Theeden Boys"
 



#326 Allan Lupton

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 15:38

A former colleague (from Wallsall) referred to Solihull as "the place where the pigeons fly upside down."

Probably twinned with Mount Isa "where the crows fly backwards to keep the dust out of their eyes"
 



#327 sabrejet

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 16:05

"I understand you live in Fulham?" "No, East Barnes." :rolleyes:

 

I understand there are now people who pronounce Clapham and Balham (Gateway to the South) as Cla'am and Ba'am - to rhyme with ma'am. And Streatham has apparently become St Reatham for some! Residents of the supposedly posher northern bit of the rather unlovely 1960s Bristol overspill area called Yate (the canker on the face of Chipping Sodbury) have also been known to pronounce it Yaté.

 

All the above are local jokes rather than serious attempts to move these places up-market; some I recall originated in sitcoms. You can add Stalbans to that list. But on the subject of Bristol, there is/was a tendency to distance oneself from the snothole that is Southmead by saying that you hail from anywhere nearby like Westbury-on-Trym, Brentry or Horfield. As a result, you know that if someone says they come from Westbury, there's a good chance they really live in Southmead.

 

Bristolians who live in Long Ashton also love to joke that they have a home in LA.

 

Meanwhile Southmead now seems to consist of a hospital and nothing else apart from people who claim not to live there.



#328 BRG

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 16:18

"I understand you live in Fulham?" "No, East Barnes." :rolleyes:

 

I understand there are now people who pronounce Clapham and Balham (Gateway to the South) as Cla'am and Ba'am - to rhyme with ma'am. And Streatham has apparently become St Reatham for some! Residents of the supposedly posher northern bit of the rather unlovely 1960s Bristol overspill area called Yate (the canker on the face of Chipping Sodbury) have also been known to pronounce it Yaté.

The south of the Thames London suburb of Battersea, a staunchly working class area where my Mum was born and raised, was pronounced 'Ba'ersea' by the indigenous locals, but is now often - having been gentrified - called 'Barh-Ter- Zee'. 

 

And sometimes - usually by estate agents and other vermin - 'South Chelsea'



#329 RCH

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 17:12

During the first ten years of my life my parents managed to move in the wrong direction. Solihull to Hall Green to Ballsall Heath. Brummies will understand the significance. No one admitted to living in Ballsall Heath of course so my mother insisted we lived in Moseley, well it was only 100 yards or so up the road.



#330 BRG

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 17:24

...my mother insisted we lived in Moseley, well it was only 100 yards or so up the road.

Moseley is the bane of my life as I live in Molesey, Surrey, a place of which nobody living more than five miles distant has ever heard.  The number of times I have had to explain that I am not from the West Midlands and spell it out carefully only for them to still write Moseley - thankfully, the Post Office only looks at postcodes now so it doesn't matter what the rest o the address is. 

 

When asked where I live, I usually end up saying 'It's just next to Hampton Court Palace' of which people have generally heard.  Even our railway station is called Hampton Court rather than Molesey. 



#331 P.Dron

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 22:17

One day in the 1980s when he worked for Ferrari, Harvey Postlethwaite was summoned to the boss's office. He supposed that he was in big trouble because the team was not performing as well as hoped. Enzo told him to sit down. Then he opened a desk drawer from which he withdrew half a dozen .303 bullets, which he dropped on top of his desk with a loud clatter. "These are yours, I think, Mister Postalywhite", he said. Towards the end of Italy's involvement in World War II, a lone Spitfire had flown over Maranello and strafed the Ferrari factory,. The bullets remained embedded in the beams of what became the racing shop, until it was rebuilt.



#332 RCH

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 08:49

Moseley is the bane of my life as I live in Molesey, Surrey, a place of which nobody living more than five miles distant has ever heard.  The number of times I have had to explain that I am not from the West Midlands and spell it out carefully only for them to still write Moseley - thankfully, the Post Office only looks at postcodes now so it doesn't matter what the rest o the address is. 

 

When asked where I live, I usually end up saying 'It's just next to Hampton Court Palace' of which people have generally heard.  Even our railway station is called Hampton Court rather than Molesey. 

 

Interesting, any mention of Moseley tends to get, "Don't you mean Mossley, that place in Manchester?" I would have thought, given how little significance Birmingham has to the powers that be, that anywhere near or in London would have had precedence. 



#333 wolf sun

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 09:29

Moseley is the bane of my life as I live in Molesey, Surrey, a place of which nobody living more than five miles distant has ever heard.  The number of times I have had to explain that I am not from the West Midlands and spell it out carefully only for them to still write Moseley - thankfully, the Post Office only looks at postcodes now so it doesn't matter what the rest o the address is. 

 

When asked where I live, I usually end up saying 'It's just next to Hampton Court Palace' of which people have generally heard.  Even our railway station is called Hampton Court rather than Molesey. 

 

Isn‘t Moseley also a popular spelling mistake where kinky lawyer, err sorry, former FIA president Max Rufus is concerned?



#334 BRG

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 11:34

Isn‘t Moseley also a popular spelling mistake where kinky lawyer, err sorry, former FIA president Max Rufus is concerned?

There are some things that are taboo here in Molesey.*

 

 

* damn it, the spellchecker on this computer even suggests 'Moseley' or 'Mosley'.  They're all out to get us!


Edited by BRG, 17 February 2020 - 15:13.


#335 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 15:12

I hope the ensign doesn't see that...

 

He might ask you to pronounce it.



#336 GMACKIE

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 01:20

Is that the place where they do toothbrush  holesmanship?

Manually (once a year)...  ;)



#337 GMACKIE

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 01:22

Plenty in London, but the funniest I know of, although I suspect it's still rare, is Vauxhall - prounced "Vose all"

 

Give me strength.

I've called my Vauxhall (1923) much worse than that sometimes...


Edited by GMACKIE, 18 February 2020 - 01:24.


#338 john aston

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 07:57

Two horrors include the host of a well known podcast talking about a sport called ' Former la One ' . Actually , 'about' is no longer the mot juste as every person I hear on the news now says 'around ' for 'about' . The same ones often say 'thuh' instead of 'thee' to preface a noun beginning with a vowel - hence 'thuh end ' , This  results in the speaker sounding  as if he or she is  seven years old 

 

And as for Donnington .... :mad: :mad: :mad:



#339 sabrejet

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 08:41

OK back sort-of on topic. One that has long bothered me: Eje Elgh. Does anyone know well enough to advise?

 

Not so long ago I was talking to the owner of a historic F2 March about its history and he said it had been driven by a chap with a funny name. I knew straight away who he was talking about.



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#340 Michael Ferner

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 08:44

"Double Egg".



#341 Cirrus

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 08:50

I thought it was something like "Aeya Elya"

 

"Double Egg" was an F3 contemporary of "Talking Tiewrap" - Thorkild Thyrring


Edited by Cirrus, 18 February 2020 - 08:51.


#342 Tim Murray

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 09:08

As discussed earlier in this thread:

As this thread has recently been bumped - & I'm new-ish around these parts - I thought I'd throw in one name that always seemed un-pronounceable to me, the Porsche 962 driver in the 80's - Eje Elgh.

Fair to say he's not from " round 'ere" ( oop north ) but in my mother tongue a stab at pronunciation is going to come out as "Eejay Elgar"

I am sure his mother had something more mellifluous in mind.



first name "aya" (to rhyme with player)
second word "elzh" (the "zh" sound doesn't exist in English - but it's like the "j" of "judge" if you've been drinking)


David was pretty confident about this as he’d asked the man himself how he pronounced it.

#343 Sterzo

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 09:41

Given that Eje Elgh is now a TV commentator, it would be good to hear from Swedish members whether he's meticulous in his pronunciation of racing driver names, or ruthless in taking revenge on the rest of the world.



#344 RacingCompagniet

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Posted Yesterday, 08:32

Cirrus in #341 gives a pronounciation which is as close to how a Swede would pronounce it as one can get.