49 replies to this topic

[FERRARI4EVER]

Why are there no black people in our sport?

[Ivan]

I'll jump in first.

YES there are.
McLaren have a mechanic.
MlcLaren also have a driver on the way named Lewis Hamilton.
But the real bottom line is exposure and money.

[Ian McKean]

This is a very good question. Notwithstanding the Williams sisters, black people also seem to be under-represented in tennis, even though the success of the Williams girls and others like Arther Ashe proves that there is no reason why they shouldn't be as good or better than white people. Tennis may not appeal to many black people but lots of black people like cars and surely today enough black people have sufficient funds to get started in motor racing. So I really don't have an answer to this question.

I think there may have been a thread on this topic in TNF some time ago.

[red300zx99]

If there were 50 million black viewers of F1 we would see a black driver or 2. It's all about the money

[red300zx99]

Another thing, I've never met a black road racer in my life, not saying there not out there. On the other hand there are just as many black drag racers at the local strips then there are whites or any other race for that matter.

[brooster51]

Wasn't one of the big guns this season in British F3 black? I think it's much more likely that the first black drivers will appear in Europe than here in the states. We did have Willy T Ribbs for a while and I also think there was a NASCAR driver back in the 70's of all things. But for a driver who will stick at it, I think it'll have to come from Europe first.

[eoin]

There are 60 million french people, yet there is no french driver. There are 250m americans, and we have no american driver. There are 1b Indians, yet we have no Indian driver. There are 1.3b chinise... blah blah blah....

[red300zx99]

And how many of those people watch F1. I have a hard time finding an american who watches F1 over here in the states, let alone a black viewer. And it's odd as most of the viewers I know over here in the states are from Europe.

[Ivan]

Eoin,
I take it you are a glass half empty kind of person.

There are a few in AMA (American Motorcycle) and one who's name I can't remember became a champion in one of the catagories, there is also a guy in the Winston Truck series. A few years ago I met a bike drag racer.

[JForce]

yeah, it's just a numbers thing. Look at the countries the grid come from, predominately white countries, because it's where the sports that lead into F1 are popular. If F3000 suddenly exploded in Ghana then I'm sure in a while there'd be a black driver.

I think F1 is a sport that wouldn't descriminate against a black driver to be honest. I can't back that up with anything but it's the impression I have.

[Ivan]

Originally posted by red300zx99
let alone a black viewer.

[random]

Originally posted by red300zx99
Another thing, I've never met a black road racer in my life, not saying there not out there. On the other hand there are just as many black drag racers at the local strips then there are whites or any other race for that matter.

That's my experience as well. Lots of drag racers, no road racers.

[red300zx99]

Ivan,
back at ya

[ivanalesi]

There was an article about the matter in Autosport, there has been a black guy, who has tested for Williams in the 80's.
The only chance is Lewis Hamilton, but i dont believe in him as much as Martin Whitmarsh do:) He had a season in EuroF3, didnt do bad, but in the same car as the ASM guys he finished I think in 5th, he had had some races in 2003 there too. But because of his 2003 experience he wasnt in the hunt for top rookie honours, otherwise he would have won it. Next season, he will be the hot favourite I think! Probably they are not interested in such kind of sports, btw Haddaway(pop singer) is a vivid racing fan and occasionally races in Carrera Cup.

[xflow7]

Bill Lester is the guy I'm aware of in Craftsman Truck. I think he's bounced around in various series for a while.

But to their credit, I believe NASCAR has been making the most overt attempts at getting young African-American talent involved that I've seen in major motorsports.

[Ivan]

Originally posted by brooster51
Wasn't one of the big guns this season in British F3 black? I think it's much more likely that the first black drivers will appear in Europe than here in the states. We did have Willy T Ribbs for a while and I also think there was a NASCAR driver back in the 70's of all things. But for a driver who will stick at it, I think it'll have to come from Europe first.

Lewis Hamilton
And did you know that Willy T was supposed to drive for Richard Childress? Dale got the car in his place.

red,
I have several friends that watch F1.

[red300zx99]

Yep, NASCAR has a minority program. If you goto a NASCAR race there are blacks sprinkled here and there, Mr. France would love to see more then a sprinkle though.

[red300zx99]

Ivan,
You in the states? I'm surrounded by those who like to see cars go in a straight line or around in a circle

[Ivan]

Yeah,
I'm in Maryland

[zfh10]

"Is it cos I is black?" - Ali G

[Bluesmoke]

Put some fancy **bling bling** rims on the F1 cars and watch the black and Mexican viewership rise 100 fold.

[xype]

Originally posted by Bluesmoke
Put some fancy **bling bling** rims on the F1 cars and watch the black and Mexican viewership rise 100 fold.

The rims on Formula 1 cars are as **bling bling** as it gets.

[repcobrabham]

i must say, "spinners" in F1 would be something else!
as to the topic: i guess it's a combination of money, teen / peer interest and perhaps a perception of elitism but as ivan says there are a few black people in there and it's not unlikely that those numbers will swell (assuming F1 remains soluble in the long term)
it reminds me of how people used to carp about there being no black / asian etc people in ads - now they're possibly over-represented, in the UK and US at least

[fuzzybunny]

Here in SA we have quite a useful 'grass roots' programme going that might still throw up some real talent.

[checkonetwo]

Originally posted by zfh10
"Is it cos I is black?" - Ali G

wonderful soul classic by syl johnson, by the way.


afaik, bernie has repeatedly stated he´d love to have a coloured driver. if hamilton delivers, he´ll certainly find his way into f1.

[nichola102]

This is quite interesting as it's a question I get asked a lot. I am mixed-race, although I consider myself to be white as that's what my Mum and Nan were and they brought me up.

But my Dad is black, and American, and when I talk to him about F1 it goes straight over his head. He did ask me if there were any black drivers and lost interest around the point that I said 'no'. And I think that this is why there are no black drivers. It's a big vicious circle. McLaren have the right idea with Lewis Hamilton, I just think that he's not the best there is (although he may be the best black guy there is, I don't know). Bringing a black 'person' into F1 will open it up to a whole new range of viewers and sponsers - bringing fresh blood and, most importantly, money into the sport.

Black people have a strong sense of identity, and it's something that I struggle with with my Dad. They like to have other successful black people to look up to and the fact that there are so few is, I feel, partly why they are so strong and resolute. Most of the black boys I know are far more likely to look up to one of the really successful footballers, rappers or actors than they are to look up to Kimi or Michael. But if there was a black F1 driver, I'm sure that they would take an interest. And want to be the same.

I do believe it is partly because of social circumstances, and that money does play its part, but I think that it's mainly because F1, like rugby, is a 'white' sport (I'm sure there are black rugby fans but when I went to the World Cup parade (and the F1 one) I was surrounded by white people, I don't think I saw one single black person).

Originally posted by zfh10
"Is it cos I is black?" - Ali G

LMAO!!!

[xype]

It's just a matter of time. Golf used to be a "white sport" until Tiger came along and at first some went "ooh, look, how 'exotic'!" but by now noone cares. If there's a guy or girl who's talented enough and has enough interest/will to climb up to F1 then noone will care.

I just think that part of the problem is that motor sport is not as easily accessible financialy like some other sports are. There's plenty of african soccer players around europe, for example, because soccer in itself is "affordable". Same with european basketball players now "catching up" with the level the NBA has (even though these are oversimplified examples).

Formula 1 is more or less an european sport and only in the last decade has been trying to outgrow europe for good. And that thanks to Bernie pushing for worldwide racing, even if he makes it for monetary reasons.

I'd say 5-10 years and we'll see drivers from all over the world popping up, mixing all sorts of nationalities and ethnicities (spelling?). It just takes a little time to get those programmes up and running and making the sport more open for different groups of people.

In conclusion, I think it has more to do with how accessible racing is than with anything else. You don't see australians fighting for the ice-hockey world cup every year, either.

[wagner]

Well I have part of theory why blacks are not the succesfull in motorsports. Same reason why they are not the very best in sports where you need explosive upperbody strength. Swimming, numerous throw sports etc .. it's about the body structure. Of course there are black people who might be top in these sports but in much lesser number. It could also be in brains, I've got feeling many black people are in a way naturally relaxed, maybe it's harder to be sharp?

This isn't racist message, all humans have their value despite there are very different ones of us both physically and mentally.

[Deeq]

xtype

Vijay was there (long) before Tiger...

[Orin]

Originally posted by wagner
Well I have part of theory why blacks are not the succesfull in motorsports. Same reason why they are not the very best in sports where you need explosive upperbody strength.

I take it you're not a boxing fan.

[JForce]

Originally posted by nichola102
I do believe it is partly because of social circumstances, and that money does play its part, but I think that it's mainly because F1, like rugby, is a 'white' sport (I'm sure there are black rugby fans but when I went to the World Cup parade (and the F1 one) I was surrounded by white people, I don't think I saw one single black person).
LMAO!!!

I'm from New Zealand and I can tell you that rugby is in no way a "white" sport. It has very very even representation, here at least.

[wagner]

Originally posted by Orin
I take it you're not a boxing fan.

Generally most black have long limbs. With that it's easier to hit but not do as much in weighlifting ;)

[Admiral Thrawn]

Can someone please post a link to the "Women in F1" thread... I can't seem to find it. I also can't seem to find the post I made in this thread about an hour ago...

[taran]

To get into F1, you need to first make your way up through the feeder series. Most African or Asian countries don’t have a developed feeder series or ladder series such as Formula Ford, F3 and GP2.

If some driver really wants to achieve something, he’ll have to go abroad. Most smaller local sponsors are not interested in sponsoring someone like that in some European championship because their target audience is local. Only (a few) Brazilian and Japanese companies seem to sponsor their fellow countrymen in European series.

I think this is the main reason you don’t find African or Asian (with this I mean all Asians except Japanese) drivers and staff in F1 (barring the odd exception).


Nonetheless, this does not explain why Africans and Asians who either live in Europe or were raised there, don’t get into F1. If you look at statistics, there are enough Indians living in Britain to provide a significant sample to get into F3 and reach F1 (research has shown that out of 1000 FF drivers, 12 will make it to F3 and 2 will make it to F1 of which 1 will have a career lasting more than 2 seasons). So why don’t we have any of these “naturalized” Europeans in motorsport?

The obvious reason would be because it isn’t a sport close to their interests and therefore does not attract enough attention and young hopefuls. But if this is really the reason? I don’t know.


I do believe the A1 series will increase coverage and interest in many nations not currently considered motorsport nations. And that it will lead some countries to start their own racing programs geared towards getting a driver into F1.

[UreaBorealis]

Originally posted by Admiral Thrawn
Can someone please post a link to the "Women in F1" thread... I can't seem to find it. I also can't seem to find the post I made in this thread about an hour ago...

It seems to be gone - Add me to the crowd of confused ones

[taran]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Admiral Thrawn


Admiral Thrawn????
Guess you want blue persons in F1 then as well ;)

[Garagiste]

Looks like the Women thread went bad, and the ministry of truth have cleaned it up

I liked Junior Simpson's joke on this subject (he's a black stand-up for those unfamiliar) :

"Of course there's no Black people in F1 - man, if I spend £30 million on a car I'm gonna want people to see it!"

In seriousness, to add to the comments above about numbers etc - all drivers in F1 today have arrived through what one might describe as "Formula pushy Dad". If, (as it appears), there are less Black fans generally, then it stands to reason that there will be many fewer Dads wanting to live their dreams via their sons, fewer still that can actually afford to, still fewer of those that are sucessful, etc, etc. No reason that there shouldn't be a sucessful black driver, it's just that there doesn't appear to be a large pool to choose from.

[Orin]

Originally posted by taran


...
Nonetheless, this does not explain why Africans and Asians who either live in Europe or were raised there, don’t get into F1. If you look at statistics, there are enough Indians living in Britain to provide a significant sample to get into F3 and reach F1 (research has shown that out of 1000 FF drivers, 12 will make it to F3 and 2 will make it to F1 of which 1 will have a career lasting more than 2 seasons). So why don’t we have any of these “naturalized” Europeans in motorsport?

The obvious reason would be because it isn’t a sport close to their interests and therefore does not attract enough attention and young hopefuls. But if this is really the reason? I don’t know.

I do believe the A1 series will increase coverage and interest in many nations not currently considered motorsport nations. And that it will lead some countries to start their own racing programs geared towards getting a driver into F1.

Yes I suspect A1 could really take off worldwide

I agree that ethnic minorities don't really support F1 in Europe and this is part of the reason, but it's also to do with numbers. I guess only about 5% of the population in Britain is Asian(?), and that's the biggest group. For white Britons, only a small number (a fraction of 1%) attempt to get into motorsport, and only a small number of them make it as far as FF. If your group only makes up 5% of the population to start with, it's unlikely to make much/any impact.

[mel]

Originally posted by Garagiste
Looks like the Women thread went bad, and the ministry of truth have cleaned it up

Yep.

[BorderReiver]

It's all about interest and grass roots structure. Motorsport is expensive at any level (even budget motorsport can burn a hole in your pocket), and sadly that precludes many African nations from having that many people who can take part. America is a different story, but there exposure is the key, the majority of young black lads (and ladies) pick up a basketball or put on football pads long before they might think about getting in a race car and aiming for F1, always assuming they've heard of it. There are of course exceptions.

Once grass roots interest is in place however anything is possible. Who wants to bet against a leading Middle Eastern driver in the next decade? Or more interest from Asia and the sub-continent? Those guys a gearing up to give Europe and South America a run for their money, and if F1 should ever take flight in the US we will see a lot more talent, black and white, coming towards F1 from that direction. Basically it's about getting people in cars at the bottom. Get enough of them and there are bound to be some good ones amongst them. And the only thing that can do that is interest.

Having said that, Lewis Hamilton is an F1 shoe-in in a few years IMO, weather that'll be for reasons of talent (he strikes me as speedy but erratic), or marketing, remains to be seen.

[nichola102]

Originally posted by wagner
Well I have part of theory why blacks are not the succesfull in motorsports. Same reason why they are not the very best in sports where you need explosive upperbody strength. Swimming, numerous throw sports etc .. it's about the body structure. Of course there are black people who might be top in these sports but in much lesser number. It could also be in brains, I've got feeling many black people are in a way naturally relaxed, maybe it's harder to be sharp?

This isn't racist message, all humans have their value despite there are very different ones of us both physically and mentally.

The reason black people are not naturally good swimmers is because of ligament length in their legs and ankles (it's shorter than those in a white person), and they also have no natural buoyancy.

[Admiral Thrawn]

Originally posted by taran
(research has shown that out of 1000 FF drivers, 12 will make it to F3 and 2 will make it to F1 of which 1 will have a career lasting more than 2 seasons)

Very interesting. Where did you find these statistics?

[BorderReiver]

Originally posted by nichola102

The reason black people are not naturally good swimmers is because of ligament length in their legs and ankles (it's shorter than those in a white person), and they also have no natural buoyancy.

They are certainly heavier in terms of Skeletal structure. Thats why they make great boxers, they put a lot more weight behind a punch. But it knackers swimming.

As for Wagner, you are plain wrong.

[mel]

People! sweeping generalisations based on race are not going to move this discussion along. Unless there are more suggestions which are F1 specific this topic will close.

-mel

[taran]

Originally posted by Admiral Thrawn


Very interesting. Where did you find these statistics?

I got them from a F1 season preview from a few years ago. It had an article about the feeder series and young hopefuls and their chances of making it to F1. Can't recall the exact publisher however but I rememered the chances of the FF drivers.

[Orin]

This thread was well timed! http://www.itv-f1.co...spx?PO_ID=31976

[well, it's news to me!]

[idrumond]

It's an historical and money thing.

Here in Brazil, people who can afford to start their careers in go-karts are mostly white, eventhough there's a ruge black people proportion in citizen numbers.

I can't think of one country that has motosport roots where black people earns the same average as white people.

In US, there's that motocross pilot, James Stewart Jr. who's crushing everyone. So black people has the capacity to do as good as white people in motosrport, they just have less chances.

[wagner]

Originally posted by mel
People! sweeping generalisations based on race are not going to move this discussion along.

What's so bad in generalization? It's fact that there are differences between races (although between individuals too) and we have got to live with that. Are these issues still too delicate to be discussed in this century and to be denied of existing?

[xype]

Originally posted by Deeq
xtype

Vijay was there (long) before Tiger...

Do you mean Vijay Singh? He's from India, they have cricket there, too.

(Would only help my point that it's all about how accessible the sport is to a certain group.)

[wagner]

Originally posted by BorderReiver
As for Wagner, you are plain wrong.

You are entitled into your opinion and holding eyes closed