13 replies to this topic

[Herbert]

I’m looking for the chassis-numbers of the various BMW M1-types which appeared in the Sportscar-World-Championship, Le Mans and IMSA. There were many different types of this car. Some were in ProCar-Spec and others were built to Group 5-Regulations. The cars were entered from 1979 until the mid-eighties.

According to my sources at least six Group 5-Versions were build by March, Sauber, Michael Cane and Martini/Hughes de Chaunac.

MARCH:

Car 1 (Mk I) : made its debut at Le Mans in 1979, DNQ, driven by Edwards/Grob/Quester, entered by March Engines; the car later appeared in Brands Hatch, Vallelunga and in 1980 in Daytona, Brands Hatch, Silverstone and Le Mans

Car 2 (MkII) : sold to Jim Busby, first appearance at Daytona in 1980, after Sebring converted to Chevy-Power and entered in IMSA races.

Car 3: (Mk III) : repaired and updated chassis of Mk I after accident at Brands Hatch 1980.


SAUBER:

Car 1: built for 1981 season, for Gerhard Schneider`s GS-team, won at its debut at the Nürburgring with Stuck/Piquet, further starts at Le Mans and Brands Hatch.

Car 2: built for 1981 season, entered by Sauber, made debut at the Nürburgring race, the LeMans,

Notes: One of the Sauber built cars appeared in IMSA-racing in late 1981, entered by BMW of North America with Hobbs/Stuck/Surer driving, could be the former Sauber-entered car.

The cars were sold to Enzo Calderari/BMW Italia and Roger Ennequin/Total for 1982.

According to John Starkey the cars had the chassis-numbers C5-01 and C5-02, which seems quite unlikely because the Sauber C5 was a Group 6-2 litre-prototype, built in the late seventies.


MARTINI:

One Car, entered by Hughes de Chaunac, first race at Mugello in 1981.


MICHAEL CANE:

One Car, build for Steve O`Rourke/EMKA, raced in 1981 and 1981, supposed to be converted Ex-Lauda-ProCar.



Of the various Pro Car-Chassis I have no idea how many were build, without chassis-numbers it is difficult to trace their individual history. So if somebody knows more about the history of the M1-cars please let me know.

[Martin Krejci]

The only BMW M1 chassis numbers I know are following:

4301041 - Göring (source: Ecce Homo entries in early 80S)
4301033 - Maurer?=> Schiebler (source: Schiebler's chassis at Ecce Homo 1982 - I assume it was ex-Maurer car but not confirmed)
943 1065 - Chuck Kendall (source: John Starkey's page) - I doubt this chassis because it has different format than those two from Ecce Homo
There was also special M1 built around T400-HU8 chassis and raced in British club races and most notably Thundersports.

A few years ago I was in contact BMW M1 register. They promised me list of all chassis numbers, I sent then all my results of M1 and promises were never fulfilled after that, unfortunately.

Herbert, if you find some more in the future, I'd be happy if you share it.

Martin

[Martin Krejci]

Some few more comments about group 5 cars:

1) In the list I can't find BMW M1 Turbo raced by Stuck in DRM 1981 and entered by Schnitzer.

2) The BMW North America car would hardly be Sauber entered car because:
a) It appeared earlier then Sauber's car: 6 h Riverside 26.4.1981 (or was it different chassis?)
b) While BMW N.A. raced at Watkins Glen in 12.7.1981, the same day the works Sauber car apparently raced at DRM race at Salzburgring.

3) Any idea which of Sauber's car went to Calderari and which to Gasparetti (btw. I have only a single race at Le Mans - is it confirmed it was sold to him?)

Martin

[jcbc3]

Don't know if this is at all interesting but here goes:

Danish Motorsports site

I 1983 var Jens Winther kører og ejer af en af Europas hurtigtste BMW M1'ere i FIA's EM-serie for gruppe B sportsvogne. Det var Winthers anden sæson i M1'eren og før det var det blevet til udvalgte løb i Preben Kristoffersens gruppe 5 BMW 320i (som han overtog i 1981), så Winther havde baggrunden, men ikke økonomien, i orden til Le Mans 1983. Imidlertid stod schweizeren Angelo Pallavicini og manglede en kompetent tredjemand i sin Warsteiner-M1 ved siden af ham selv og den tyske sportsprins Leopold von Bayern. Gode fælles kontakter hos BMW Motorsport og Winthers solide kørsel bragte parterne sammen i feltets eneste M1. Det i sig selv gjorde holdet til forhåndsfavoritter til en klassesejr, da klassens seks Porsche 930 ikke var det legerendariske mærkes mest konkurrencedygtige model, for slet ikke at tale om den usædvanlige Porsche 928S, med V8-motor. I tidtagningen var M1-holdet knap 3 sekunder hurtigere end hurtigste Porsche, kørt af de franske Alméras-brødre.

I løbet lagde BMW-holdet sig i spidsen for gruppe B og var så langt fremme som nummer 20 i det hårde felt af overvejende gruppe C prototyper. Både Pallavicini og von Bayern pressede imidlertid bilen unødvendig hårdt. Jens Winther prøvede at få teamkammeraterne til at besinde sig, nedsætte tempoet og derved spare bl.a. gearkassen, men til ingen nytte. En ny gearkasse blev installeret blot for senere at give flere vanskeligheder. Nu udgik holdet efter 16 timer og 160 omganges kørsel. Nu blev gruppe B en walk-over for Porsche, der fik 5 af 7 biler i mål, deriblandt den enlige 928.

Belært af Pallavicini-teamets mangler, besluttede Jens Winther sig for at stille op med sit eget team de næste tre år, med 11. pladsen i 1986 som højdepunktet.

In 1983 Jens Winther was the driver and owner of one of Europes fastest BMW m1's in FIA's series for Group B sportscars. It was Winthers 2nd season in the M1 and before that he had had a few races in Preben Kristoffersens group 5 BMW 320i (that he purchased in 1981), so Winther had the back ground, but not the economy for an assault at Le Mans in 1983. However, the Swiss, Angelo Pallavicini needed a competent 3rd driver in his Warsteiner-M1 besides himself and the German sports prince Leopold von Bayern. Good common contacts with BMW Motorsport as well as Winthers solid driving brought the parties together in the race's only M1. That in itself made the team pre-race favourites, as the six Porsche 930's of the class wasn't the legendary marques most competitive model, not to speak of the unusual 928S with V8-engine. In qualifying the M1 team was almost 3 seconds faster than the fastest Porsche, driven by the French Alméras brothers.

In the race itself the BMW team took the lead of Group B and was as far as up as No. 20 in the field of mostly Group C prototypes. Both Pallavicini and von Bayern were pushing unnecessary hard for the car. Jens Winther tried to make his co-drivers relax and slag of on the pace a bit to save among other things the gear box. But in vain. A new box was put in, but this unit also made trouble a few hours later. The team broke the race after 16 hours and 160 laps. This meant Group B was a Porsche walk-over, who got 5 of 7 cars to the flag, including the lone 928.

Wiser, from the Pallavicini teams deficiencies, John Winther decided to race his own team for the next three years, with 11th place in 1986 as the high point.




Where Winther and Pallavicini got their respective cars from I don't know. And I haven't been able to find their chassis numbers on the net (yet).

[Henk Vasmel]

An interesting subject, because hardly anything seems to be known about the identities of these cars. I have got a book by Lothar Boschen, Autos die Geschichte machten-BMW M1. It contains 2 lists of chassis numbers, one for production cars, one for racing cars. Both have only 3 digit numbers. 001-460 and 003-460 with a lot of numbers missing. I can't find any proof that they are the same cars, which would mean there are only 460 cars at most, but I suppose so. There are also two unnumbered racing cars. The production car list does hardly give any useful info, only some BMW cars, some cars listed as Procar, some as Customer car and a few importers names.
The racing car is even more tantalizing, because there are the construction firm (BMW, R.D. or Osella) and the owners in 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982 and 1987. Not much to identify racing cars, and no mention of Sauber except as the owner of 073 and 076 in 1980.
Other cars of interest:
028 (R.D.) : 1979 Lauda, 1980 Stuck, 1981 Pink Floyd, 1982 Gr.5
059 (Osella) : 1980 Merz, 1981/82 De-Chaunac, 1987 Collector
041 (R.D.) : 1979 G.S., 1980 GS-Ersatz, 1981/82/87 Döring (not Göring)
033 (R.D.) : 1979/80 Alimpo (NL?), 1981/82/87 Duncan
065 (R.D.) : 1979 Busby, 1980 BMW-NA, 1981/82 Kendal, 1987 USA
Schnitzer cars 1n 1981 are 052, 072 and 458
004 is mentionned as Le Mans in 1980
245 is mentionned as Le Mans in 1981
053 is called Kunstwerk in 1979 (Art car?)

Maybe the complete list would give you more clues so if you want it, I will scan and OCR (and correct of course). I wouldn't consider the list as more than clues, because it looks very incomplete.

Regards,

Henk Vasmel

[Martin Krejci]

Dear Henk,

it would be nice if you post here the OCR-ed data. And if I can ask you, I would have interest if you send me the original scan to my email

Kind regards,

Martin

PS: I am almost sure that Döring is incorrect and Göring had the chassis. It was listed like that in original entry form sent by Göring himself (source: my brother's data a research, and I believe him in this case )

[jcbc3]

I'm pretty certain you guys mean Edgar Dören

Here's a link to Mondello Park museum with him mentioned. I remember him from several visits to Jyllandsringen in the early and mid eighties. Mondello Park Racing circuit .

He died 1st April 2004 from cancer. Here's a tribute site (in German with pics from Nürburgring) Here

[Martin Krejci]

Originally posted by jcbc3
I'm pretty certain you guys mean Edgar Dören

I am quite sure you are wrong!

Rolf Göring raced own BMW M1 in 1981 to 1986 (maybe also later in hillclimbs)
Helmut Döring and Peter Döring appeared during M1-era but I have no records they ever raced BMW M1, definitely not on the level that Göring did.
Edgar Dören - yes, he used variously BMW M1 and Posche 930 in WEC races but it was BMW M1 owned by Hans-Christian Jürgensen and later by Helmut Gall.

Since at Ecce Homo Dören never raced M1, nor I am aware of he owned any while Göring did, I have no doubts that Göring is correct here.

Martin

[jcbc3]

In which case I stand COMPLETELY corrected.

[Jesper O. Hansen]

The latter half of the 1980's was spend as a Nordic Super Saloon Car for Swede Jürg Bächi, by one of the Sauber M1's: http://personal.inet...ra500_87/04.htm
http://personal.inet...SS/SS_PM_87.htm

There was another Sauber replica racing in the series as well, but that car was alledgedly build on a group C frame.

Swede Stefan Pettersson still races, what I believe is, one of these two cars, now fitted with a rumbling BMW V8 engine.

Originally posted by jcbc3
I'm pretty certain you guys mean Edgar Dören

Here's a link to Mondello Park museum with him mentioned. I remember him from several visits to Jyllandsringen in the early and mid eighties. Mondello Park Racing circuit .

He died 1st April 2004 from cancer. Here's a tribute site (in German with pics from Nürburgring) Here

I saw some races at the Jyllands-Ringen as well during the 1980's and never saw Dören, but Hans-Christian Jürgensen (Martin, you call him Heinz-Christian Jürgensen in your DRM results!).

Jesper

[Martin Krejci]

Originally posted by Jesper O. Hansen
Hans-Christian Jürgensen (Martin, you call him Heinz-Christian Jürgensen in your DRM results!).

Jesper

I can see it now. I have seen both and had Heinz in my database. Checking with several Norisring programme official entry lists and Time and Two Seat, Heinz would be incorrect and he is really Hans as I wrote here from memory.
Thanks.

Martin

PS: I have now to download all my DRM data again

[Herbert]

I just found this link:

http://www.qv500.com/indexbmw.htm

You can find some information about the M1 (E26) and the M3 (30).

And this one: http://www.sauber-pe...ex.php?page=bmw

So according to Sauber's official side two Group 5-M1 were build by them.

[Herbert]

And another one: http://www.kormanfastbmw.com/m1.htm

So according to this link the car which appeared in IMSA-racing in late 1981 was the ex-Stuck-ProCar, Chassis #4301269.

And that car is for sale!

[BANZAI]

Does anybody dipping into this thread know if there is racing footage available from the 1979 or 1980 Procar championship on dvd or video.

Possibly something exists from a German source?

Thanks for any help received.

Cheers
Rob