24 replies to this topic

[simonlewisbooks]

I recently picked up small amateur snapshot photos of three Porsche 917s at Silverstone for what must be the 1972 or 1973 Interseries race and I'm struggling to make firm identifications of two of them...

Car number 0 is the familiar Herbie Muller Martini sponsored car , does anyone know if this was a 917-10 or a 917-30? It has the rounded look of a '30' and I have seen both types mentioned in relation to Muller.

Car number 4 is lime green and looks like a converted 917K, possibly Ernst Kraus? It's got a full width rear wing and rather more anugular body than the early spyders that Kinnunen, for inmstance, raced before getting hold of a '10'. Kraus's earlier style car was said to have lime green paint with a big red arrow, but this one's just plain green...

But the one that is really bugging me is car number 2, a 917-10 (or of that body type) with white nose and blue tail with a red stripe and red tub sides. There' REDLEFSEN lettering on nose and sides and having trawled at length through the 917 chassis histories on 962.com can't seem to find any mention of this one. Anyone have any ideas? Is it George Loos or Willi Kauhsen maybe?

Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com

[uwe_sautter]

Hi Simon,
I think you mean this car.
It`s a Porsche 917/10 driven by Willi Kauhsen.
I remember a photo in a german magazine.
Hope I found it.

[simonlewisbooks]

Hi Uwe
Thats the one! Well spotted. All the previous photos of Kauhsen' 917 that I recall were in a yellow livery, the same as the car he appeared with at Goodwood Festival of Speed in 2003.

Many thanks

Any ideas about the lime green car?

Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com

[Stephen W]

Simon, the photos you have are from 1974.

Back in '72 at Silverstone Muller was in a 917/10 whilst in 1974 the Porsche was a 917/20 carrying the number 0.

Car 4 was Ernst Kraus in a lime green 917/10

Car 2 is Willie Kauhsen in another 917/10 but with updated bodywork.

Muller started from Pole Position and dominated the race completing the 21 laps in 28 mins 29.1 secs a speed of 129.47 mph.

Kauhsen was second and Kraus third.

917s ROCK!

[simonlewisbooks]

Thanks Steve that pretty well answers everything.
Was the Muller car a spyder version of the 'Pig' 917-20 le Mans car ?

Does anyone know a web site with Interseries archive results ? It's something of a forgotten series these days. My dad always enjoyed spectating at the Martini Internationals and never tired of telling me how impressive the 917 turbos were for such quiet car!

Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com

[cjpani]

well, perhaps not interseries, but www.porsche917.com.ar might be of help.
2 years without translation, i'm a lazy bastard!
cj

[Frank de Jong]

Interserie results:

WSPR

[Oversteer1]

Simon:

I believe that Willi Kauhsen still owns the 917/10 you mentioned.
There was an article in Motor Sport, and I believe it showed him
with a yellowish/ orange 917/10 he had owned for 30+ years.
My memory is a little fuzzy about the article. Thanks!

Mark

[Stephane Lebiez]

Originally posted by Stephen W
Simon, the photos you have are from 1974.

Back in '72 at Silverstone Muller was in a 917/10 whilst in 1974 the Porsche was a 917/20 carrying the number 0.

Car 4 was Ernst Kraus in a lime green 917/10

Car 2 is Willie Kauhsen in another 917/10 but with updated bodywork.

Muller started from Pole Position and dominated the race completing the 21 laps in 28 mins 29.1 secs a speed of 129.47 mph.

Kauhsen was second and Kraus third.

917s ROCK!

The winner at silverstone in 1974 was Willy Kauhsen in his Redlefsen's porsche 917/10 (015). Hebert Muller took the 2nd place, Helmut Kelleners was 3rd with a McLaren and Ernst Kraus took the 4th place. Kauhsen sold his porsche after the 74 season to american driver Randy Townsend who finish 3rd at road atlanta in 1975 and failed to start in the Mosport 200 in 1976.
The herbert muller's car was in fact the first porsche 917/30 build in 1973 and driven by vic elford and kelleners in season 1973. For the 74 challenge a lot of modifications were adopted and it came to an hybrid model between a 917/10 and a 917/30 so it will be called 917/20

http://membres.lycos.fr/canam

[Stephen W]

File my earlier post under Senior Moment!

The results I posted were from the Sprint Heat!

In the Interserie Round the results were as follows:

1st Kauhsen - 35 Laps - 47min 53.4sec 128.35 mph
2nd Muller - 35 Laps - 48min 05.3sec
3rd Kelleners (M20) 34 Laps
4th Kraus - 34 Laps

[uwe_sautter]

here are more pics.
http://img218.exs.cx...9536/0028qz.jpg
http://img217.exs.cx...3927/0034zw.jpg
http://img239.exs.cx...4021/0010vb.jpg
http://img232.exs.cx...dlefsenv0bk.jpg
http://img231.exs.cx...dlefsens3lo.jpg

[simonlewisbooks]

Uwe, is that really Emerson Fittipaldi in the car in image http://img239.exs.cx...4021/0010vb.jpg ? Any more details known about him running this car ?
Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com

[uwe_sautter]

Hi Simon,
yes this is Emerson at Interseries Race 1974 Nürburgring.
The pic http://img218.exs.cx...9536/0028qz.jpg
is Harald Ertl, TrackTest in Hockenheim for a german racing magazine.

[simonlewisbooks]

Thumbnails of the photos are now on http://www.simonlewi...-martini-72.jpg (and yes I know it's 1974, not 72..)
Like I said, just snap shots.
I also have similar photos of Kelleners McLaren M20 and what I think is John Jordan's M8 , the KMW of Muller-Perschl, Pilkington's Alfa 33 and Cox Kocher's Ferrari 512M which was a non starter.
Quite a mixed bag of entries.

Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com

[Stephen W]

Uwe, was HARALD ERTL his real name or a racing pseudonym? For some reason when I got his autograph he started to sign a different name, quickly stopped and proceeded to sign as Ertl!

[uwe_sautter]

Hi Steve,
mystery.... I have no information that he had a different name.
Here are a interesting side.
http://www.fortuneci.../ertl/ertl.html

[Stephane Lebiez]

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
Uwe, is that really Emerson Fittipaldi in the car in image http://img239.exs.cx...4021/0010vb.jpg ? Any more details known about him running this car ?
Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com

This is the Porsche 917/10 chassis 001 of the Willy Kauhsen Racing Team. Emerson Fittipaldi drove it in interserie challenge at the Nurburgring in 1974 and finished 6th.

http://membres.lycos.fr/canam

[adminj]

Hi!

Informations and pictures of the Interserie-races at the Norisring can be find here:

http://www.norisringhistorie.de

My site shows races from 1947-1972 (the site is projected up to 1989).
The Interserie raced at the Norisring 1970 - 1973.
Please notice: the very first Interserie-race happened in Nuernberg (Norisring) on June 28th 1970!!!
Actually the site is only in German language (but the pics speak international !!

Regards
Juergen

[simonlewisbooks]

Does anyone know if the Kauhsen car in my photos ( http://www.simonlewi...-martini-72.jpg ) is chassis 001 or 015? Seems like he used both in 74, were both of them in the same style livery and bodywork?
001 is the car he appears with at Goodwood I think, now Orange in colour. The otherwise very helpful www.962.com chassis page for 917s doesn't get as far as 015 with it's detailed individual history

Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com

[simonlewisbooks]

Two other cars from Interserie Silverstone 1974 that I need help with identifying if anyone has an entry list to hand (Steven? Stephane ?) - Light blue Chevron, Maybe a B21 ,#67 and red McLaren M12/M8 #14 which I assume is probabaly John Jordan.

Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewisbooks.co.uk

[Jeremy Jackson]

Simon,

"Automobile Historique" did a chassis-by-chassis" race list of 917s last year, and though it's not to hand to 100% confirm, I believe that 015 was Kauhsen's regular chassis in 1974, and 001 was the spare, and used for Fittipaldi at the Nürburgring.

Lost my prog. for the 1974 race, so sorry I can't help with the latter query, but apart from Griffiths' M8D-bodied car, there were only 2 M8Es in the race, Jordan & Goetz, but I think both were red from memory...

[FLB]

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
Was the Muller car a spyder version of the 'Pig' 917-20 le Mans car ?

Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com

The short answer is 'No'.

The long(er) answer is that there were two different 917/20's: the well-known Big Bertha and the interim 917/20 spyder ('20' meant to be 'between a 917/10 and a 917/30'). The latter was Müller's car. Big Bertha was left pretty much unrestored in Porsche's museum after Le Mans 1971 until the mid-1980's.

Source: Peter Morgan's Porsche 917 book, Haynes Publishing.

[Rob Semmeling]

Originally posted by adminj
Hi!

Informations and pictures of the Interserie-races at the Norisring can be find here:

http://www.norisringhistorie.de

Hi Jürgen,

I enjoyed your site very much, particurlarly the pages on the 1970 Interserie race (where Kelleners's 707 made its debut). Loooking forward to additions to your site.

Keep up the good work!

[gerard BARATHIEU]

SIMON,

we have Richard SIMMS in the lone CHEVRON B21/23 Ford.

Unfortunatly I haven't the race number.

He got the 18ths position.

[Stephane Lebiez]

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
Two other cars from Interserie Silverstone 1974 that I need help with identifying if anyone has an entry list to hand (Steven? Stephane ?) - Light blue Chevron, Maybe a B21 ,#67 and red McLaren M12/M8 #14 which I assume is probabaly John Jordan.

Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewisbooks.co.uk

For the mclaren, i think it is john jordan. The other claren M8E at silverstone in 1974 was driven by kaye griffiths. It was th 80-08 chassis (ex team vds for teddy pilette in 71 and 72). Griffiths was a friend of John bonham (led zeppelin rock group) and the car ave a very special paint (grey and blue with white stars). Griffiths drove it in 1973 (with this paint) and in 1974 at silverstone (with the same paint ???).

http://membres.lycos.fr/canam