75 replies to this topic

[Allen Brown]

I was going to add the #40 in the back ground is also a Wildcat on the entry list it's shown as Steve Krisiloffs Offy V8 version.

That's not actually the entry list. Whoever runs ultimateracinghistory.com has done a great job of pulling together data from a range of secondary sources but I'm pretty sure you'll find that the entry list as published in the program (which I have here somewhere but can't put my hands on) did not say that it was a V8.

As it happens, I prefer these results.

[Allen Brown]

How i didn`t spot that before? These are identical type of cars on pics below- my doubts found some proof now. Patrick team used Mk2 like front wing on 1978 Drake V8 car as well.


Picture credit goes to Rick Harman (Silverstone pic) and forum user Don Hodgdon (Ontario pic)

Malvi, you've just ruined my morning. I have been confidently identifying cars as Mk2s in photographs based entirely on their nose. Now you've shown me a car that looks like a 1978 car but has the nose off a Mk 2. Aaarrgh!

I hope Marc won't mind me appropriating his image for this purpose, but here is my revised Wildcat spotters guide. Now I line them up like this, the 1978 car (that I call a Mk 5) looks less like a Mk 3 than I thought. Of the two Brands Hatch cars, I think the #20 car is a Mk 3 (chisel nose and notice the strut halfway along the sidepod) and the #40 is a "Mk 5" (but with an extra radiator in the nose).



Apart from Marc's image of the Mk3, the other images used here are copyright Gelnn Snyder and used with permission.

PS. Where's indy500.com gone?

[Allen Brown]

The other style of Wildcat missing from my spotters guide is the 1978 Drake V8 car which looks like a "Mk 5" from the side but has a nose radiator. It's the #40 car at Brands or this car at Mosport:

http://www.zoompics.com/1978usac.htm

Now that I can see the difference between the 1977 "Mk 3" and the Drake V8 car of 1978, I can see why Patrick would have been willing to flog the Mk 3 to Guthrie.

Here's a picture of Guthrie's car for comparison - clearly a Mk 3.

http://g.imagehost.o...net_Guthrie.jpg

[malvi]

Well that`s i`ve been trying to prove about 3 or so years - especially for myself.
One more significant difference between Drake-engined car and Mk2 - check Allen, the mounting of back wing: Mk1-Mk3 have 2 (Eagle72 like) mountings but Drake car and further only one.
So now we can be quite sure that one of these Mk4s ended career in Ross Davis/Ron Chapman stable in 1981.

Phillip Portaro gets the picture credit.

BTW Allen it wasn`t me who mixed up Drake`s and Offy`s.

[Michael Ferner]

Also the rollover bar is quite different - usually a very good identifier! Good work, Simmo and Allen!

[arttidesco]

Thanks for clearing up the Offy V8 mystery Allen I did indeed get my info from the ultimate racing history page :-)

[gbl]

I went through all my photos and to sum it up for myself again with all the customers:

Mk1: 1975 one car to Frank Curtis / Larry Cannon / Maurice Kraines, second car to Bobby Hillin
Mk2: 1976 raced by Patrick up to 1978 (at least Indy), cars sold to Maurice Kraines, Wysards, Armstrong
Mk3: 1977 car, sold to Guthrie / Engelhardt, one car used for Johncock in 1978
Mk4: 1978 car single attached rear wing, narrow rollover bar, for Patrick, one car sold to Ross Davis in 1981 and one car to Roger Rager (unless he had the Mk5)
Mk5: 1979 car, Mk4 with Cosworth
Mk6: 1980 car
(Mk7 could be PR1 labeled car?)

the only complete mystery is the car that Tom Frantz ran in 1979 and Ross Davis in 1980 (could be the same chassis). This car has the wider rollover bar and the read wing attachment that would indicate a Mk1-MkIII, but the side pods indicate more of a Mk4, they don't match anything of Mk1-MkIII. Maybe this was another generation inbetween (the real Mk4?) or a modified chassis?

[Maithel]

 Hi everyone - I'm brand new here -  I'm looking forward to making some new friends!

Some quick context: I typically build 1/43 models of European sports cars (pre-1970). I'm now trying my hand at Indy cars, specifically the Precision Miniatures kit of the 1977 STP Wildcat (no. 40, driven by Wally Dallenbach).  Call me crazy, but I'm trying to detail the engine as it's fully exposed and is a tempting subject. To do this, I need detailed pictures/diagrams of the engine and suspension, so I can see how things are wired/plumbed. I'll probably go blind trying to do this but it is a tempting challenge. I've been searching high and low for good pictures of this car and finally stumbled upon this forum and thread (Hallelujah!). Since you all seem to be so knowledgeable about these cars, if there's someone who has pictures that they can forward or post here, that would be greatly appreciated! Even if the pictures are not exactly of the subject car, anything even close will be helpful.

 

Many thanks!

Peter

[Maithel]

Wow, some great info...thanks all!

[Maithel]

Hi all - as I continue my attempt to build the 1977 No. 40 STP Wildcat (Wally Dallenbach), I discovered that the Precision Miniatures kit contains a rectangular  'c' shaped part called a suspension adjustment bar that somehow attaches to the rear end. However, the instructions are not at all clear as to where this part attaches. There are no obvious attachment points and when I test assembled it, it seems as if it could go under the hub/driveshaft assembly on each side of the trans (so the hub/driveshaft assembly rests on each 'arm' of the 'c'), or it could possibly attach to the assembly. I have searched high and low on the web for a detailed picture of the rear suspension on this car, with no luck. Can anyone please help me either with pictures or with some advice?  Thanks!

 

[arttidesco]

All the Wildcat photo's  I have access to are posted earlier in this thread, it would appear no one on the forum is in touch with anyone who worked at Patrick Racing, so your best bet for answers maybe to try and hunt down the car you refer to, if it still exists ?

[B Squared]

The best source for detail photos that you need are likely going to be found in the 1977 proof books at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway photo shop. The photos aren't free, but they will help with locating what you need if they can.

[Marc Sproule]

allen:

 

in case you didn't see it, i posted a comment on the dallenbach image on flickr. it is indeed from the fall race.

[arttidesco]

 

After Mario Andretti's Essex sponsored Penske PC9 Indy 500 ride in 1980, the following year Essex announced plans for Mario Andretti to race an Essex sponsored Patrick Racing Wildcat in the 1981 Indy 500.

 

The only Wildcat I can find that looks like the one in the Press shoot above is the #40 Kent Oils Wildcat Tom Bagley drove at Indy in 1980 which can be seen in this link https://www.indycar.com/photos/gallery?g=1571

 

There are some minor differences no scoop for the turbo on Tom's car and no appeture for a radiator in the side pod on Mario's car. The intelnet and particularly LAT descrides Tom's car as a MkIV but looking at Allen Brown's post above MkVI would seem more likely for both the Essex and Kent Oil sponsored cars. Would anyone like to stick their head above the parapet and agree that the Press photo car and Tom's 1980 Wildcat were Mk VI's ?

 

Wondering if Mario's car could even be a show car and how Essex managed to get Colin to agree to host the Essex Wildcat outside Ketteringham Hall ?

Edited by arttidesco, 09 March 2021 - 07:19.

[Michael Ferner]

I can't see the picture because of firewall issues at work, but neither Bagley nor Andretti ever drove a Mk 4; it's a completely different animal to the Mk 6. Not a ground effects design, and still with the low monocoque (a la Tyrrell 008) and rising radius rods so typical for early Wildcats. I think (from memory, danger!) it was the Drake-engined version of what later became the Mk 5.

 

 

A note for Allen's superb "spotters guide", the Mk 2 picture is actually Johhny Parsons from 1977, the same car Johncock drove in '76.

[arttidesco]

Try this link for may opening post Michael :- https://tastecannotb...at-they-seem-to

[Michael Ferner]

Thanks Art, and yes, that's a Mk 6. The turbo scoop appears to have been on and off, while I'm not sure about the radiator - may have been blanked off to maximise sponsor exposure?

[arttidesco]

Thanks Art, and yes, that's a Mk 6. The turbo scoop appears to have been on and off, while I'm not sure about the radiator - may have been blanked off to maximise sponsor exposure?

 

Is there any other point of reference, other than TNF, where we know the 1980 ground effects Wildcat is / was called  the MkVI / Mk6 Michael ?

[Michael Ferner]

Fairly good point! I'm not sure the Wildcats ever had "official" type designations, and were not simply called by the specialist press to mark the distinction. As a matter of fact, Patrick entered three cars for the 1980 Indy 500, naming them PR-001, PR-002 and PR-003, plus a Wildcat IV according to the Hungness yearbook - I'm not sure the last one isn't a typo. The cars that did eventually appear were the one we are talking about (with but one race on the clock), the even newer car that was evidently the Mk 7, an unraced Phoenix and an old Penske. The Mk 7 was entered for Johncock as #20 ("PR-001") and destroyed in a May 8 accident. The Mk 6 was entered as a backup car #70 ("Wildcat IV", or VI more likely), shaken down by Bagley in his initial runs, readied for Johncock as #20 and then qualified by Bagley, repainted and given #40 for the race. The Phoenix was earmarked for Bagley as #40 ("PR-002"), practiced by him but rejected, practiced as #40T by Smiley and finally qualified and raced as #70. The Penske was Dallenbach's '79 car, and apparently a substitute for backup car #90 ("PR-003", presumably never built or finished), and ran as #40T initially for Bagley, was then qualified by Johncock, repainted and given #20 for the race. Still following?

 

 

UPDATE: I checked a few newspapers, and all appear to refer to Wildcat IV as Bagley's 1980 ride, so it's clear the error must've been made on the original entry list, hence the confusion. The following year, all newspapers appear to agree on Wildcat VIII as the '81 car.

Edited by Michael Ferner, 09 March 2021 - 19:48.

[arttidesco]

Michael bringing Gordon Smiley into the picture has certainly cleared a few things up as I couldn't work out if the #40 Mk VI had many modifications over the 1980 month of May, pod side radiator and switch to centre post rear wing or it was a completely different car, now obviously the latter thanks.

 

Being on the milder end of the dyslexic scale I also wondered if Mk IV was a slip of the hand. I guess one way to give the slip of the hand postulation some traction would be to ask were there any concrete / set in stone entries for Wildcat Mk V's in 1979 as it would be illogical to go from a MkV in '79 to a more advanced ground effects design in '80 and call it a Mk IV ? 

 

Of course maybe the whole assumption that anything is logical in this context is phoney too 

[Michael Ferner]

Your last sentence certainly rings true, as unfortunately I can't recall a single mention of a Wildcat type designation in period before the ominous Wildcat IV of 1980, hence my earlier remark about the absence of official designations. Actually, a quick trawl through a newspaper archive reveals the first appearance of a type designation in anything but isolated instances to be the Wildcat VIII (Mk 8) of 1981, morphing into the Wildcat VIII-B (Mk 8B) of 1982 and Wildcat IX (Mk 9) of 1983, as well as a few mentions of Wildcat X (Mk 10) in 1984. That sounds about as logical as possible, and adapting that kind of logic for the earlier Wildcats we arrive at the listing by gbl in post #57. Good enough for me.

 

 

 

EDIT Okay, as soon as you say something like that you find a couple of mentions of Wildcat II (1976) and Wildcat III (1977) each.

Edited by Michael Ferner, 10 March 2021 - 08:33.

[arttidesco]

 

 

 

 

EDIT Okay, as soon as you say something like that you find a couple of mentions of Wildcat II (1976) and Wildcat III (1977) each.

 

Don't we just love exceptions that prove the rule 

[mxrod]

Does anyone know how I can find out some history on my Wildcat.  I have a March 86A chassis # 003.  I have not been able to get any information on it at all.  I have been restoring it so I can race it with VARA, HSR-West, etc,,   Any leads would be very appreciated.

 

Rod O'Connor

mxrod@pacbell.net

[B Squared]

Does anyone know how I can find out some history on my Wildcat. I have a March 86A chassis # 003. I have not been able to get any information on it at all. I have been restoring it so I can race it with VARA, HSR-West, etc,, Any leads would be very appreciated.

Rod O'Connor
mxrod@pacbell.net

Does it have any CART or USAC stickers on the inside sides of the tub? If it is a USAC sticker the last two numbers indicate the car number. Richard Perry is a great source for CART tag interpretation, let me know I can provide you with his number if needed.

March was able to help us with their registration sheets from 82, 83 and 84 which gave us the original purchaser's name.

Edited by B Squared, 31 August 2021 - 16:01.

[Michael Ferner]

Difficult. I *think* that I once saw chassis numbers listed for an ARS (aka Indy Lights) race, but if I did I failed to enter them into my data base, and I wouldn't know where to look for them now. That was an SCCA series back then, so I would guess they issued a logbook, but presumably you don't have it or you wouldn't be asking these questions. Any pictures with the car? Who sold it to you? Layers of paint?

[mxrod]

No logbook, the car has no visibile clues as to who might have been the driver/team.  All I know is it is chassis # 86A-003. If anyone has any information or a lead I would really appreciate it.  

 

mxrod@pacbell.net

Edited by mxrod, 01 September 2021 - 14:11.