36 replies to this topic

[Cociani]

Is there anybody in Italy or with access to the Italian press who can relay how the Tifosi feel about Rubens inspiring drive in Germany? The tifosi loved Gilles Villeneuve and Nigel Mansell for their spirited drives I am wondering if Rubens is getting the same treatment.

[Ray Bell]

Get Auto Sprint... it reflects the Italian feelings, or it used to.

[molive]

La Gazetta had high praises for RB's race.

ATLASF1 BB also had almost unanimous cheers for Rubinho, which is quite something. BUT, Let's see how these same people will react if RB really starts fighting for wins and get into WDC contention (it will just take one or two hickups by Schummy and some poor strategy by the Macs and that could very well happen..).

[Mobile_Chicane]

Hes only ten points behind Michael and 8 behind both Mclarens. Must be a bit depressing if he can't go for the title himself. Then again it could just motivate him more to beat the competition and prove himself.

[kenny]

his only hopes are, that either MS retires...
or that he is in first place with the MAcs behind him, so he doesnt have to let ms in front...
and I hope this will happen...;)

[Max Torque]

RB when asked in the press conference about going for the title, said: "I don't want to think about it..."
Even he knows that he will never have a chance at it while at Ferrari. He probably aims for a few victories.
That or MS breaking his leg again! (though it will take the breaking of Mika's and David's legs as well, as it seems now.)

[Ray Bell]

Any professional leg-breakers around here... ?
But then again, Nuvolari raced with broken legs... on a motorbike!

[MrAerodynamicist]

But could you image: last race, couple of laps from the end. RB in first, MS in second. Whoever wins will be champion

[Max Torque]

That's the best joke I've heard inawhile MrAerodynamicist!!!

[RedFever]

you want opinions/reactions from italian Ferrari fans? I do qualify, as I have left Italy at the age of 29 and read Italian newspapers daily.

First: don't call us Tifosi. We don't call ourselves that way. It is a very stupid inaccuracy coming from some ignorant journalist who failed to investigate the meaning of the word. Tifosi are NOT Ferrari fans. Tifosi means fans, all fans. Milan AC has tifosi, Byern Munich has tifosi, Liverpool F.C has tifosi, Mika Hakkinen has tifosi. It's NOT Tifosi with a capital T, it's a generic name in Italy. If you want to qualify Ferrari fans in Italian, you need to say "tifosi della Ferrari", in other words "Ferrari supporters" as opposed to "tifosi della McLaren", "McLaren supporters". Every team in F1 has tifosi, Ferrari just has more.

Second: Rubens said it better than anyone else. He was thrilled when he first arrived to Italy. He had never driven for the team, was going there for his first visit to Maranello and get his measurement taken for his seat. He was overwhelmed once arrived to the Bologna airport by people recognizing him and screaming at him "Go, Rubens, go, win for us". He could not believe people were already supporting him when he had not even sat in a Ferrari yet. That is a normal behavior in Italy for Ferrari fans. They love the team first and foremost. The only reason Schumacher is so popular in Italy is because people felt he had a better chance to bring the title to Maranello. But if Gene would, they would be as happy. It will always be Ferrari first, drivers (whomever they might be) second. One exception: Gilles Villeneuve, the only one who was as loved as the team.

Third: Rubens is of Italian origin, from Castello di Godego, a village near treviso to be exact. That makes him even more likeable. He speaks a pretty good italian and could talk to the press and the fans immediately, without translators. Between 1884 and 1916, 25 Barichello (yes, only one r, the second was added by the Brazilian immigration officers to facilitate the pronunciation in Portuguese) left the village to go to Brazil. Among them Piero Barichello, direct ancestor of Rubens. Clearly they have a Barrichello Fan Club in the village and some of the elders in the village, Mario (74 years old) and Angelo Barichello (70 years old) had contacts with Rubens's father in the past. They are all working to create a "Barrichello Day" together with the Associazione Trevigiani nel Mondo (Associations of Trevigiani in the World - Trevigiano is a person from Treviso). Enough said.

Fourth: Rubens is an extremely likeable person. Everyone in his team loves him. Brawn just the day before the race in Germany had a long interview. He talked about Rubens and was asked his opinion. Brawn stated everyone in the team really loved Rubens. He was impressed by his progress and said after 6-7 races, Rubens had finally managed to understand the team better and familiarized with the car, so now it takes him half the time to setup the car properly. He is fast and he is getting stronger mentally, having to survive a situation where he is paired to the best - in Ross' words - driver in the world. Outside of the team, everyone likes Rubens in F1. Look at Mika and David's reaction. They got beaten by Rubens, yet they were happy to take him on their shoulders. Schumacher genuinely likes Rubens, he said many times that Rubens is a straight guy, he fully trusts him, that Rubens had proven to him he is worth his full trust, that he is a family man, a nice guy. Yes, he said Rubens' victory helped him stay ahead of the title race, but it was a very special and emotional moment for Schumi also to see Rubens win. He said he would have not felt that way if it was Eddie Irvine that had kept him in the lead bacause he wasn't personally close to Eddie, while he is to rubens. Erja Hakkinen hugged him and congratulated him immediately after the race (picture on La Gazzetta), the guy that took the victory away from her husband. The Ferrari mechanics went nuts for him and Schumi's team helped Rubens' team during the pitstops, particularly on the second one. And yes, Jean Todt run to Rubens (seen on Italian TV Rai 1, burried himself into Rubens and hugged him and had the biggest grin I have ever seen on his face. Montezemol refused comments on the team by saying "This is Rubens' day, he raced an amazing race and I don't want to steal the attention from him". In conclusion, everyone likes Rubens because there is nothing not to like about him. Yes, the Italian press at times has criticized him, but they need to sell papers and some of the journalists have a personal agenda. They know they cannot suggest to replace Schumacher (unless they push for Mika or Jaxs to take over), but they see two extremely talented Italian drivers struggling with uncompetitive cars. They want at least one of them (Yarno and Fisi) to drive for Ferrari, so they place pressure on Ferrari and Rubens. But they all celebrated his victory this week, nobody objected anything about his outstanding drive. And now actually they are starting to ask him if he is thinking about the rankins, being only 10 points behind Schumi.

The feeling is that overall the majority of the Italian Ferrari fans likes Rubens more than they like Schumacher. However, being pragmatists and wanting to win the WDC so badly, they see Schumacher as the most likely candidate to win. Again, Ferrari fans think in terms of Ferrari first. But if you asked them how would they feel if Rubens instead of Schumacher would bring the title to Maranello, most would smile and say "magari!!!" ("I wish...").

[Max Torque]

I think you misunderstood.
We are not talking if italians like Rubens or not.
Of course they like him, I like him although I hate Ferrari.
We are talking how much support he gets from the team, which if I am not mistaken, isn't run by italians. Jean, Ross and all the other think that Ferrari IS Schumi, that's what i don't like. If the team had italian drivers and was run by italians, I would respect it more. Right now, their only concern is giving Michael another title.

[tifosi]

Max Torque..

What in the hell are you blabbering about. Does junior member now mean " I can't read or understand English"?
The original question by Cociani was what does the Tifosi feel. Tifosi is "fans" The question has nothing, I REPEAT NOTHING to do with the team. What are you some little eight year old that likes to post flame-bait.
As far as Ferrari hired Italien drivers you would respect them, I assume you don't respect:

McClaren : Finnish Driver, German Engine
Williams : German Driver
Jordan : Japanese Engine
BAR : Canadien Driver

What team do you respect?

[Pascal]

Let's not forget that Jean Todt, Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne are only employees, and that their supreme boss, Luca Cordero di Montezemolo, happens to be Italian. But Ferrari is a team where results come first. Schumacher is a proven winner and twice WDC, but if Rubens can show the same brilliance consistently, I see no reason why he could not eventually get the same kind of support the German driver is currently enjoying...

[Max Torque]

I noticed just after posting that I was out of the topic, sorry. But what's with the insults? If it happens that I just joined the party it doesn't mean that I should be insulted like this.
Anyway, Ferrari is the only team with such a strong "national" feeling, that's why I spoke about Italans managing the team. And don't tell me that Luca Di M is the heart of the team!

[RedFever]

Max, your anti-Ferrari fervor is affecting your ability to read.

Cociani asked "how the Tifosi feel about Rubens inspiring drive in Germany? The tifosi loved Gilles Villeneuve and Nigel Mansell for their spirited drives I am wondering if Rubens is getting the same treatment."

WHere do you read the word team? the word team manager? the word designer? the word technical director???? I don't see them anywhere. Cociani asked what us, Italian Ferrari fans feel about Rubens Barrichello. I think I gave a pretty exhaustive answer. Now if you want to play your bullshit flame baits, fine, just say so and I will have a few punches to trow back at your pathetic attempts to start a fight. But nobody here, other than youself, understood Ross Brawn or Jean Todt were part of the discussion. The are NOT Ferrari fans, they are Ferrari employees.

Also, Ferrari is 90% owned by FIAT Auto (italian last I checked). Ferrari is owned 10% by Piero Lardi Ferrari, son of late Enzo Ferrari, founder of the SCuderia Ferrari. Last I checked, he was italian. The team (as is the entire company) is managed by Luca di Montezemolo, an Italian nobleman of long standing tradition. Last I checked he was Italian. It is his responsibility to hire the best employees he can find and whether they are Italian, British, Brazilian, German or from Burundi, it is entirely meaningless to a team competiting for the WDC and WCC. Talent is talent and it has no nationality. You take it wherever you find it. Unless you think my advertising agency does not qualify as an American agency because I, an Italian, write strategies for my clients, the 2 copywriters that work on my team are one from Israel and one from South Africa, and the Art Director is from Ireland. As far as I am concerned, I work for an American advertising agency in NYC. Who is foreigner is me, and my creative team. Period.

[tifosi]

BTW,

It was a long-standing policy of Enzo Ferrari, who definately was the heart of Ferrari, not to hire Italien drivers. Maybe only rumor but at least widely reported and agreed too.

[RedFever]

Max -

read your last post and all I have to say is you need to check your info before talking.

Luca di Montezemolo was not chosen by chance. Ferrari was in disaray after Enzo's death. Too many power centers (engineers in Italy, Barnard in the UK - what a stupid idea to have a strateguc center removed from the rest of the team, Piero Lardi Ferrari, Cesare Fiorio - ex-Lancia WCC team director now at Minardi, Alain Prost, etc.). Gianni Agnelli realized the team was going to self-distruct and got rid of most of them and hired Luca as President of Ferrari with full powers to do whatever he saw was needed for the Scuderia. Why was luca so ideal? because Luca knew Ferrari better than anyone else. In the glorious 1974-76 years, Luca had Jean Todt's job. At the age 0f 26, he was the team manager.

He later moved on, became the CEO of Cinzano, then the President of Juventus soccer team, finally the CEO of the organiztion that managed the Soccer World Cup in 1990 in Italy (built 12 new stadiums and organized the entire event). He came back at Ferrari knowing the team, knowing its origin and knowing how to fix it.

He is not involved in the team???? you nned to do better research.

Luca hired Michael Schumacher. Luca hired ross Brawn. Luca hired Byrne. Luca hired Barrichello. Luca hired Salo to replace Schumacher instead of giving the seat to Luca Badoer. It was Luca who kicked Michael in the ass and told him to get off the couch, get in his car and help Eddie win the WDC in 1999. And guess what? Michael obeyed. Nothing happens at that level of decision making without Luca making the final decision. Nothing. Yes, Todt manages the day to day operation, where they test, when. Byrne manages the developments with Brawn and the team racing strategies. Yes, that is all coming from them. But they are all there because Luca wanted them there. And Luca is 100% Italian running an Italian team. Who works for him and the team can be of any origin, it is entirely irrelevant.

[Peeko]

tifosi, I think you're right about Enzo. I think there was a faze when he did hire Italian drivers, but a number of them were dying in his cars, and the Italian press was printing stuff along the lines of Enzo killing his own (countrymen). He got sick of it, and is the reason why he didn't hire Italian drivers. Something to that effect. Maybe Red can back it up??

[RedFever]

Yes, tifosi, you are right. it was an unwritten policy Enzo had. It was clearly nothing personal against Italian drivers which he profusely employed in the early years.

What happened was that Lorenzo Bandini died in the flames of his Ferrari in Monaco (1966?). Some in the Italian press mounted an horrendous campaign against Enzo as a result. He, already personally devastated by his driver's death, suffered immensely from the attacks and decided that never he would employ an Italian driver again. He didn't stick to that resolution 100%, Arturo Merzario raced a few GPs for the team and later Michele Alboreto raced several years for the team. But as enzo explained after hiring Michele, times had changed and he felt it was now OK to hire an Italian without being crucifixed if something would happen to him.

[Max Torque]

Ok, I agree that you Ferrari fans obviously know a lot more about your team than I do. I must admit that I didn't do any research about this so great president of yours. Maybe he is the heart of the team, I don't know, it's just that it didn't seem so to me.
I thought that the technical director runs the team.

[Cociani]

From what I have read the reason Enzo did not like hiring Italian drivers was that people were extremely upset when the young talented and loved Italian Ferrari driver Lorenzo Bandini was killed people in Italy were absolutely devastated. I guess that Enzo did not want to upset the Italian public that much the next time a Ferrari driver was killed racing so he would not hire another Italian driver.

P.S. Red my incorect use of the word tifosi was even more unexcusable because I did know the correct usage. I used it because this is an English BB and people do it all the time Tifosi is a title bestowed upon Ferrari fans by the British press and if it does offend you I will not use it in that manner again on this BB. I am a JV fan and a Grand Prix fan but down deep it the dark depths of my soul I am a closet Ferrari tifoso. IF Jacques ever had a chance to drive the red car I would be the happiest person alive.

[tifosi]

Red...

Yep, I remember the reasoning behind it. Just was never sure if it was really Enzo's policy or just coincidence.

And yes, I realize "tifosi" is not actually a proper noun defining Ferrari fans, but colloquilly, at least in the racing world, it certaintly has that meaning.

And BTW, I am not Italien, but consider myself a true devoted Ferrari fan, and while not Italien by blood, certaintly by heart. Does that mean I cannot be a Ferrrai fan. In that case I'm in trouble because the U.S. hasn't had an F1 entry since sometime in the twenties

[MercMan]

Red,

Nice post on RB's history. He sounds like a decent chap. I may have to switch to supporting him insted of DC, the former "nice guy".

You forget to mention that quite a few McLaren team members were on teh pit wall to cheer him, their celebrations were almost as intense as when a McBenz wins.

Regards

MercMan

[RedFever]

tifosi, don't worry, you don't need to be Italian to be a true Ferrari fan (you have to prefer the team over Schumacher though....).

But clearly, and it's certainly not your case, many of the people with Ferrari flags we see on the circuits are not really Ferrari fans. In Brazil, many are using them because of Rubens. Fair enough. Same for the German crowd. Don't doubt for a second that if Schumi moves to McLaren in 2002, those entirely red stands will become entirely silver overnight. In Japan they love anything Italian, from Prada and Gucci to Ferrari. No surprise there but how many there have any clue about Ferrari's history and tradition? a handful.

In Italy the situation is different. It has been like this for decades now. We have seen Ascari and Fangio, Surtees and Phil Hill and Icks, Lauda and Schecketer, Villeneuve and Alboreto, Alesi and Berger, Schumacher and now Barrichello. With the notable expection of Gilles Villeneuve, who defined the perfect example of what an F1 racer is in the mind of Italians (we are passionate, not rational, that's why we are the best lovers but hire F1 strategists from the UK....), nobody else has ever been placed at the level of the team. Niki Lauda didn't make it, Schumacher will not make it. Yes, everyone wants him to win but because they want the title. Once he is gone, Ferrari is still there. And there will be new heros.

So, no, you don't need to be Italian, it's just that Cociani was curious about Italian Ferrari fans' opinions on Rubens

[tifosi]

Don't worry Red, Scumacher didn't mean squat to me until 96. Berger and Alesi were the greatest then. He won't mean squat to me when he leaves. The only driver I've really liked outside of the team is Jean Alesi. Yes Ferrari comes first, it doesn't matter to me who is in the drivers seat.

As I stated in one of my posts on Sunday. It didn't matter what happened at the start, with the lunatic on the track, or the fiasco that was Mcclaren pits, in the ned the church bells rang in Maranello and that's all that really matters, isn't it?

[Peeko]

the church bells rang in Maranello...

Sweet...

[Simioni]

Originally posted by RedFever
But clearly, and it's certainly not your case, many of the people with Ferrari flags we see on the circuits are not really Ferrari fans. In Brazil, many are using them because of Rubens. Fair enough. Same for the German crowd. Don't doubt for a second that if Schumi moves to McLaren in 2002, those entirely red stands will become entirely silver overnight. In Japan they love anything Italian, from Prada and Gucci to Ferrari. No surprise there but how many there have any clue about Ferrari's history and tradition? a handful.

Though I agree that most of the crowd in either Brazil or Germany or whatever place are fans of ferrari´s drivers rather than the team itself, it doesn´t mean that they don´t support ferrari as a whole. In Brazil, a crowd that used to hold an extreme dislike for MS was cheering him on and booing the mclarens. Same in Germany with Rubens this year and Irvine and Salo last year, cheering them on rather than Mercedes. People get hooked by ferrari´s charisma, even if they support a driver first and foremost.

[RedFever]

I know, Simioni, but if Michael moves to McLaren, in Germany they will cheer also Mika but boo Rubens and MS's replacement at Ferrari. If Rubens moves to McLaren, in Brazil they will cheer Mika and boo Schumi and Ruben's replacemnt. That is not what a Ferrari fan is like.......they just are for the time being, until their hero is with the team. DO you think the Finnish will give a rats ass about McLaren after Mika leaves? they will cheer for Mika Salo.

[Simioni]

You´re probably right Redfever, but there certainly wasn´t a sea of red and white in Brazil when Senna was winning for mclaren and the crowd couldn´t care less about how Berger was doing. People enjoy cheering for ferrari, even if it is only because of its famous name.

[RedFever]

that is true, of course, with a Brazilian racing for Ferrari is different than a Brazilian driving for mcLaren. I cannot even imagine what would have happened in Brazil if Ayrton had raced for Maranello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I miss Brazil, I had such a great year there

[magic]

that's right, ms is driving senna's dream.
senna by now would be a triple ferrariwdc.
the mohammed ali of f1.
the greatest.

[man from martinlaakso]

RedFever, I think, that you are right, when you wrote, that the Finns would not care about McLaren, if MH leaves. We cheer for the drivers (especially Finnish drivers), not that much for the teams. If Mika Salo would move to Ferrari (not impossible in a couple year's time), the Ferrari team would be very popular here.

[Simioni]

Originally posted by RedFever
that is true, of course, with a Brazilian racing for Ferrari is different than a Brazilian driving for mcLaren. I cannot even imagine what would have happened in Brazil if Ayrton had raced for Maranello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I miss Brazil, I had such a great year there

We´d go bananas!;) Mind you, we did already this year, big time...

Didn´t know you once lived down here. Where was it?

[RedFever]

Rio de Janeiro, the most fun city in the world.

Six months in Copacabana, in Rua Ronald de Carvalho (spelling?) and six months in Ipanema, not far from the Flamengo sporting center near Lagoa but I was closer to the beach. I was a temporary member of the Paisandu Athletico Club and played killer soccer games with other clubs and on the beach. Too bad I was only 17 back then, I wish I was a few years older to enjoy it even more. I love Brazil very much. Tengo muita saudade (spelling?)

[molive]

RedF,

That part of Rio is really nice. You were a lucky fella to be able to experience that at 17yo,although I agree that at a older age it would´ve been a whole different ball game,if you know what I mean...;)

[Mrv]

Alot of people on this forum are really misinformed expecially Max Torque. It was understood from the beginning of the year that Michael was the person who for this year would be going for the title. Rubens understood this as he excepted it when Montezemelo talked to him back then. What Montezemelo said the other day was nothing new to Rubens or the public. Montezemelo said that if Michael wins the WDC this year, that Rubens would be allowed to battle for it next year.

[kenny]

hey RedF, Im going to Brasil in october...its been 3 years...
I can understand you love Brasil... especially the people...
its just great!!!

ps. it's Tem muito saudade...;)