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The traditional Le Mans start (merged)


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#51 D-Type

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 21:09

I've read this somewhere a long time ago, but now I can't recall where... The story was about how intense Stirling Moss was about everything as opposed to Mike Hawthorn. One year all the drivers were lined up across from their cars, ready for the sprint, when just a few seconds before the go, Hawthorn started to casually stroll towards his car... Seeing this, Moss could clearly be heard over the hush "Mike, you Bastard"...

Nurburgring 1958.

Hawthorn tells the story in Champion Year and I think Moss also tells it in A Turn at the Wheel.

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#52 Frank S

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 21:22

I took part in the 69 Sebring race and lined up with the 70 other drivers with much aniticipation. For some reason, there was a false countdown and after we had sprinted across the track, were called back to do it all over again. Don't remember what went wrong, but it was the last year of the Le Mans start at Sebring.

It made sense to me not too get involved in any first lap nonsense, so I waited untill most of the cars were already off and running. In later years while doing some club racing at Westwood, I believe there was someone waiting at your car to help you buckle in, or at some events apparently you sat in your car already bucled up, while a crew member actually did the run across the track and then touched your car before you could leave. I think Le Mans generally were outlawed at some point in the seventies.

I always enjoyed these starts and thought it added to the race excitement.

Robert Barg

Here's my page on the Sebring '57 start as depicted on the cover of 1958's program:

Took some kind of ego and misfocus to stand on a race track under those conditions.


When I helped organize the Tijuana Bullring-by-the-Sea races I instituted the Le Mans start for production cars wherein the driver was buckled in and a crewman ran across and handed him the ignition key. That seemed to work good once; probably wouldn't have over time, as potential unfair advantages abounded.
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The "TASC" (Tijuana Auto Sport Club) fellow is president of that group and leader of an international car theft-to-order ring. To his left, the then-Presidente Municipal of Tijuana, who waved the green flag from up there on the banqueta.

Fred Puhn of Chassis Engineering and Maserati fame won in his MG TF, from Mickey Pleasant, bugeye Sprite, after a marvelous race-long battle. Weekend immortalized by Gus Vignolle in his Sports Car Graphic article.


#53 AllTwelve

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 01:28

Perhaps the closest to that was Luigi Chineti in 1949. What do you think, DD?

------------------
Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…


After conferring with my father, Chinetti drove 23 hrs plus. Co-driver Lord Selsdon was found to have been drinking. Coco (Luigi's son) had found some scotch under a bench, and something to the effect that after having been seen waving to the crowd whilst driving past the pit straight, Lord Selsdon was called into the pits. He drove for less than an hour. Mr. Chinetti drove the rest of the race, accompanied with a bowl of sliced oranges to feed on while driving.... to the win.

AT

#54 Roger Clark

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 06:54

...and speaking of Le Mans starts..... I wonder if anyone noticed the double-page picture on pages 60 & 61 of the 'other' Goodwood Revival programme (the one with Tommy Cooper on the front!)?

It clearly shows one of the reasons why Stirling Moss was so good at Le Mans starts.

For those who haven't seen it - it is the start of the 1959 Goodwood T.T. Moss' Aston is first in the line, with Dan Gurney's Ferrari next, then Bonnier's Porsche and Graham Hill's Lotus. The man bearing the small Union Jack with which the race is being started clearly still has his arm pointing straight up, the flag therefore not even beginning to fall. However, SCM is already several strides across the road, Gurney has twigged it and is just about getting going while Bonnier and Hill are still standing still - and Jack Brabham, several places down the line, is still adjusting his goggles.

So now we know! :)

Motor Sport (WB) said that Moss set off while the flag was still going up! He then went on to say that Moss drove like sh*t off a shovel (not WB's actual phrase) in the opening laps,possibly expecting a penalty.

Did Barry mean to suggest that Moss regularly did this sort of thing?

#55 Mal9444

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 20:06

Motor Sport (WB) said that Moss set off while the flag was still going up! He then went on to say that Moss drove like sh*t off a shovel (not WB's actual phrase) in the opening laps,possibly expecting a penalty.

Did Barry mean to suggest that Moss regularly did this sort of thing?


The reason Moss 'jumped the flag' (at least, if you'll forgive the shameless name-drop, according to the GMH - Great Man Himself - who told me this) was that he was looking not at the starter and his flag but at his own watch, the which he had synchronised with the race clock. According to the GMH, the race rules stated that it would start at a certain time (?noon?), not when the starter waved his flag - so Moss began his sprint when the Big Hand touched Mickey's Nose (so to speak) and not when the Big Man dropped the flag. To quote him: 'I wasn't early - the starter was late!'

I think we could all agree that going like manure off a well-polished digging tool was Moss's natural state and someting he tended to do whenever the occasion presented itself.

#56 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 21:50

Originally posted by D-Type
Nurburgring 1958.

Hawthorn tells the story in Champion Year and I think Moss also tells it in A Turn at the Wheel.


I've a notion Moss' comment was in All But My Life...

#57 D-Type

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 22:12

I've a notion Moss' comment was in All But My Life...

It could well be; it's a good few years since I read either book.


#58 donnb

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 21:57

Yes I'm an oldtimer. I really miss the excitement of the drivers running to their cars, starting them (or trying to),and pulling out to race. What could be more boring than a rolling start?
Legend has it that the reason Porsches have the start key left of the steering wheel is so racing drivers could begin starting the engine before they were fully in the seat to depress the clutch or grab the gearbox lever.
When did they stop the Le Mans style start and why? :confused:

#59 byrkus

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 22:04

Last one was in 1969, when Jacky Ickx demonstrated (protested?) against that starting style by slowly walking across the track to his car. He then fastened his belts and started dead last. His argument was that the drivers just jumped into cars and drive away, without being 'belted-in', and they usually only fastened their belts at long Hunaudieres straight - while driving at speed above 320 kph!! And he was right with that - in first or second lap there's been an accident, which claimed life of John Woolfe - who, IIRC, wasn't properly fastened.

Ickx (with Jackie Oliver) won that race after a fierce battle with Porsche, and certainly made his point.

Edited by byrkus, 21 November 2009 - 22:05.


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#60 D-Type

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 22:06

The introduction of seat belts led to the demise of the Le Mans start. The risk was that a driver might fail to do his seat belt up properly with obvious results.

I think the last Le Mans start at Le Mans was 1968. Ickx walked across to his car, did his belts up and then drove off - and damn nearly lost the race.

Edited by D-Type, 21 November 2009 - 22:07.


#61 Kpy

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 22:55

I think the last Le Mans start at Le Mans was 1968. Ickx walked across to his car, did his belts up and then drove off - and damn nearly lost the race.

Byrkus is right. it was in 1969 that Jacky Ickx made his point by walking across the track at the start and he and Jackie Oliver won the race by 100 metres or so.
The winning car was the same chassis that had won the 1968 race in the hands of Pedro Rodriguez and Lucien Bianchi.

#62 Graham Clayton

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 02:45

Were there any spectaular, or painful, caramboulages occasioned by this type of start?


"Gentleman Jack: The Official Biography of Jack Sears" by TNF member Graham Gauld and John Whitmore (Veloce Publishing Ltd, 2008) mentions that Sears' serious accident at the 1962 Tour De France rally at Clermont-Ferrand was caused in part by a Le Mans start:

"Once more Jack Sears was in the lead in his race and came up to lap Citroen DS factor driver Andre Marang. Marang did not see the [3.8] Jaguar about to pounce and moved over to take his normal line; the cars touched and Sears went off the road at high speed, hitting the banking hard and overturning. As it has been a Le Mans start Sears did not have time to fix his seat belts and the impact threw him through the car and out the back window. Jack was taken off to hospital with four cracked spinal verterbrae, his rally over."

#63 scheivlak

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 14:14

Just had a look at the start of the W triatlon at the Olympic Games.

 

Our commentator called it a 'Le Mans start' because the athletes started the swim phase running from the beach into the sea (instead of a plunge from a pontoon).



#64 john winfield

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 18:32

Just had a look at the start of the W triatlon at the Olympic Games.

 

Our commentator called it a 'Le Mans start' because the athletes started the swim phase running from the beach into the sea (instead of a plunge from a pontoon).

Did you notice that Belgian competitor walking slowly towards the sea in protest?