Jump to content


Photo

1990 - Porsche CART season


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 kris

kris
  • Member

  • 74 posts
  • Joined: February 05

Posted 22 February 2005 - 22:03

Still Andretti related as it was the first big drive John Andretti obtained in CART

I'm searching for everything relating with that season : articles and interviews of that time (1990), stories, opinion, pics ...

Advertisement

#2 kris

kris
  • Member

  • 74 posts
  • Joined: February 05

Posted 22 February 2005 - 22:05

Quote from the book
“Porsche Racing Cars : a history of factory competition”


While 1989 might not have been exactly what Porsche had wanted from its Indy program, it did appear to form a solid basis for 1990 when, under Walker, it would add John Andretti, Mario’s nephew to the team, in a second car.
[…]
the factory’s aspiration were not to be realized in 1990. Sponsorship problems, which eventually saw Fosters Beer become the prime monetary partner, contributed.
However, the real difficulty came when CART refused to approve the composite chassis around which the team’s March 90P was to have been built. This led to a hurried substitution of an aluminium honeycomb structure, which in turn left Porsche without much time to test. And, as if this weren’t enough, the revised 90P entered the CART fray with an advanced and complicated gearbox, as well as a new, forwardly located turbo, both of which needed exactly what wasn’t available – private time on the track.
As might be expected, the year was one to forget, with the two cars failing once more at Indy.
[…]
In the case of Indy and CART, one can speculate that Porsche could have done well had it gone about things a little differently and accepted input from the veterans of the sport more than ot did.

#3 kris

kris
  • Member

  • 74 posts
  • Joined: February 05

Posted 22 February 2005 - 22:13

Quote from pages 108-110 of the book
"CART the first 20 years - 1979-1998"


For 1990, the team [Porsche] expanded by adding John Andretti as teammate to Fabi while maintaining its relationship with March. With two full seasons under its belt, Porsche was now ready to unleash some German ingenuity on the CART series and its new car caused quite a stir. Designed by Gordon Coppuck and Tino Belli, the March 90P was as radical as they came. The turbo was mounted ahead of the engine and the gearbox was mounted ahead of the rear axle line - all for improved weight distribution.

Low and missile-like, the car was literally designed around Fabi and Andretti, the two smallest drivers in CART. It was an approach not unlike Formula One. Porsche also had March make the chassis entirely of carbon fiber, in contrast to other champ cars of the period, which were built around a chassis that was half carbon fiber and half aluminium honeycomb. With ikts all-carbon fiber chassis, not only was the March lighter and stiffer, but crash testing proved it would also stand up better to multiple wall contact. In no time, rival CART team owners began to cry foul. Following a vote, the new car was banned. "I think it was a very dark time for CART," [team manager Derrick] Walker said of a decision that would hamper the progress of the program in what was to be its final year.

March, Porsche and the Walker-led team spent the remainder of the season trying to find ways to lighten the car and make it more competitive. Andretti finished 10th in the points while Fabi dropped down to 14th. The highlights had been Fabi's pole position at Denver and third place at the Meadowlands while Andretti was able to consistently score points throughout the season.
"Every car we had was 100 pounds overweight," Andretti pointed out. "Porsche came up with three sheets of paper with ideas on how to make the car lighter. One idea was to drill holes in the steering wheel to save three ounces! I told them for three ounces to leave the steering wheel alone and I would personally lose the three ounces."
"Finally, by the race in Denver, Teo got the first car that was down to weight. My new car arrived at Nazareth, but by that time there were only two races left in the season. It was difficult to get caught up." Although his stint at Porsche would last only one season, Andretti was happy with the ewperience. "Porsche did a great job in the engine department," said Andretti, who also drove CART cars powered by Cosworth, Buick and Chevrolet engines. "They did a lot to the engine. The first Porsche engines broke a lot. The engines I drove didn't break."

[...]
What happened in CART following Porsche's departure was ironic, to say the least. In an interesting change of heart, CART's board of directors voted to allow all-carbon-fiber chassis for 1991. Regardless of motives, the cars would now be much safer.

#4 kris

kris
  • Member

  • 74 posts
  • Joined: February 05

Posted 22 February 2005 - 22:23

PICS :

http://usuarios.lyco...bi_andretti.jpg

http://www.geocities...50/naz90_19.jpg

http://mwphoto.smugm...2/1405004/Large

http://mwphoto.smugm...2/1339373/Large

The March 90P that did not race [all-carbon-fiber chassis]



Posted Image

#5 Henri Greuter

Henri Greuter
  • Member

  • 12,825 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 23 February 2005 - 08:20

that was the last innovative, different Indycar in history, the final so called Indy Oddball....
after its failier everything bercame pretty much standard as for basic lay-out of the cars.

That monocoque was a nightmare to see if the engine was taken off!!!



Henri Greuter

#6 kris

kris
  • Member

  • 74 posts
  • Joined: February 05

Posted 27 March 2008 - 22:16

Interresting article I found on the refusal of the all crbon chassis by CART :
Link NY Times

#7 fbarrett

fbarrett
  • Member

  • 1,170 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 28 March 2008 - 18:41

Friends:

I photographed the Denver CART race, concentrating on Fabi, Andretti, and the Porsche team, and I really should dig out some of those images. The race was unique in that it had the slowest lap times of any CART race to date. I recall Fabi winning the pole but sliding off into a tire barrier within the first few laps.

Before the race, the Porsche team tested at Second Creek Raceway, a local road course. Their main concern, because of the 5,000-ft altitude, was brake cooling. Most cars in the field had huge scoops on their brakes but still had problems. Denver's citizens were upset at the inconvenience of having their streets blocked off for a few days, and the promotor was a sleaze, so the race failed after two years.

Frank

#8 weisler

weisler
  • Member

  • 36 posts
  • Joined: January 06

Posted 29 March 2008 - 01:29

A beautiful car from a great era in Indy Car racing.

Does anyone happen to have any pictures of the engine and specifically the turbo layout? It sounds like this car had an interesting packaging solution.

#9 Jerry Entin

Jerry Entin
  • Member

  • 5,920 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 30 March 2008 - 15:39

Posted Image
Here is the engine in the chassis. Very complex and as Henri has said a nightmare to work on.
photo Tom Schultz-copyright Tom Schultz 2008

#10 Gene

Gene
  • Member

  • 111 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 30 March 2008 - 17:40

Just a bit of FYI.

If you can try and speak with Gary Grossenbacher or Steve Ericson. Gary was the engineer at Holbert's for both the GTP and Indy projects, and if I remember correctly, Steve the was the crew chief. Both should be a wealth of info on the project.

Gene

#11 weisler

weisler
  • Member

  • 36 posts
  • Joined: January 06

Posted 31 March 2008 - 01:42

Originally posted by Jerry Entin
Posted Image
Here is the engine in the chassis. Very complex and as Henri has said a nightmare to work on.
photo Tom Schultz-copyright Tom Schultz 2008



Thank you for the picture! Very interesting arrangement.

Thanks again!

#12 Henri Greuter

Henri Greuter
  • Member

  • 12,825 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 31 March 2008 - 09:08

You should see the monocoque of that car with the engine not attached.
I have pictures of that but I can't post them.
I am still surprised that mr. Ludvigsen is his splendid Porsche book did not give more info and pictures about the last year 1990.

Daring suggestion.
I created a website-like piece about this car and its history, to be put on the internet if I ever had my own website.
Which I will never have.

Maybe the time to let it go and find another option for it to have it out after all.

If anybody reads this message and dares to host it, with all the pictures and details I compiled, please contact me by PM and we can try to work something out. But I warn you: I have lots of info, lots of stories and lots of pictures (though admitted: only taken at Indianapolis) to give this unique car the proper attention and credit it deserves.
For they who are familiar with what Mr. Karl Luvigsen wrote about the car in his Porsche book: my piece and info goes way and way beyond that.


Henri

#13 Racer.Demon

Racer.Demon
  • Member

  • 1,722 posts
  • Joined: November 99

Posted 11 December 2008 - 14:10

Originally posted by Henri Greuter
I created a website-like piece about this car and its history, to be put on the internet if I ever had my own website.


This excellent piece has now finally found its way onto the Web, you can find the first parts here:

http://8w.forix.com/march90p.html

The other parts will be put online in the near future.

Thanks to Henri for entrusting 8W with his work, and compliments to his research!

#14 Henri Greuter

Henri Greuter
  • Member

  • 12,825 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 19 December 2008 - 08:23

Originally posted by Racer.Demon


This excellent piece has now finally found its way onto the Web, you can find the first parts here:

http://8w.forix.com/march90p.html

The other parts will be put online in the near future.

Thanks to Henri for entrusting 8W with his work, and compliments to his research!





I am happy to inform all of you that Racer.Demon has finished the completion of the piece on the March-Porsche 90P.

My sincere thanks to Racer.Demon and 8W for the opportunity and their assistance to tell about this remarkable car and show more details of it, proving how different it was. This car deserved a better fate that it eventually got.

Henri

#15 EvilPhil II

EvilPhil II
  • Member

  • 1,830 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 10 December 2023 - 13:08

I just read this 16 years later and loved it.  Thanks for pulling all this insight and information together. 



#16 sabrejet

sabrejet
  • Member

  • 876 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 10 December 2023 - 13:20

I'd suggest that the Galmer was the last Indy oddball.



#17 karl100589

karl100589
  • Member

  • 329 posts
  • Joined: February 15

Posted 10 December 2023 - 16:46

I'd suggest that the Galmer was the last Indy oddball.


What about the raised nose Penske in 1999?

#18 Henri Greuter

Henri Greuter
  • Member

  • 12,825 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 11 December 2023 - 18:00

I just read this 16 years later and loved it.  Thanks for pulling all this insight and information together. 

 

 

Thank you very much for this comment EvilPhill. Glad to read that even after all those years someone who reads it for the first time likes it.

 

 

Back then it was fun to do and I still enjoy being busy with these cars one way or another.