122 replies to this topic

[Richard Jenkins]

Never let it said I'm a one-trick pony.
I've been doing some musing lately. Having a bit more time lately than usual (I get long holidays in my job, partly to make up for being so busy when I'm actually working), my "projects" have gained pace - the "Original" WATN is tootling long just fine, the Indy 500 1911-2004 is due to go up within a month, I would imagine.
Indeed, the F2 project I had "shelved" for next year is fast gaining pace & if I find I have more time on my hands than I should've - I might... just might... do that one too in the next month or so as well as a bonus.
But then that leaves me with a quandry. CART & IRL WATN I will do but that's a matter of adding a handful of fellows really. Maybe F1 team bosses, but this will have to be a different type of format. There are a few other WATN series/ideas for exploration but....

So I think I need a long-term project to do alongside WATN, but something in a slightly different vein. And then, looking at the snow, it came to me. Why not do something a bit more specific, that I have a genuine, as opposed to general, passion for? And of course, something that doesn't already exist somewhere.
(not a lot of choice then)

Unkind wags would say "Well that project won't take very long - Pryce, Rees, Lewis done" - whereas others may say "Wales HAS racing drivers?"

But I think there's a bit of scope here - I'm kinda treading the boards to query a few things

1) A full list of Welsh racing drivers is probably impossible - do I count the Welsh National Championship? So, should I have some sort of criteria? Say, for example, Welsh drivers who raced internationally? Would that be enough scope?

2) Do I include Welsh born drivers who have no or little real link to the country bar birth? Johnny Jenkins, for example. (No relation by the way, I have nobody in either family who has ANY link to motor racing )
3) Should there also be a "not Welsh but influential/lived in/liked sheep or rugby ;) " category, or is that stretching it too far?

4) Can anybody think of a quick list of at least the most promiment (A Rees, J Lewis, T Pryce, T Davies, R Lee-Lewis, Cyd Williams are those who I can think of without trying, IYSWIM.)

5) Should I do the page in English & Welsh? It would seem logical..... (But my Welsh is not very good )

This wouldn't necessarily be in the same vein. Perhaps a more how shall we say, profile-type format as opposed to birth/deathdate statistics.

Just musing, as I said, but worth doing? Would anyone one day be interested in such a page on the web?

(Yes, I will ask the Welsh Racing Drivers Association for help - I'll need it.)

[Mac Lark]

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
3) Should there also be a "not Welsh but influential/lived in/liked sheep or rugby ;) " category, or is that stretching it too far?

Ah, sheep and rugby - we Kiwis have a lot in common with the Welsh.

I seem to recall a F3 DRIVER who might have had a name like Gareth Rees - little ginger fellow anyway.

With a name like that, if he wasn't Welsh then his parents probably were.

In the dark recesses of mind, I seem recall him specifically not wanting to be Welsh and always raced as an Englishman.

Which of course he was perfectly entitled to do. Afterall Mike Thackwell chose to be known as a NZer not an Aussie. If I'm right about this chap Rees, it's always made me wonder 'why be just another English hopeful when you could be Wales' next big thing'

Was there ever a 'Tom Pryce' memorial trophy for the best Welsh driver of the year?

[KJJ]

Richie, your certainly the man for this!

I'd draw from as wide a field as possible, 100% Welshmen like Tom Pryce, Welshmen like Jack Lewis who had the misfortune to be born east of Offa's dyke, chaps who were born in Wales but wouldn't like people to know about it "old boy", and yes I'd include the likes of Innes Ireland who lived in Wales throughout his mainstream racing career.

It's far too late to think of Welsh racers, a couple who spring to mind Parry Thomas and Shane Summers who were both born in Wrexham, Gary Hocking from Caerleon, Maurice Charles - he once took part in an F1 race of sorts didn't he. I'll remember some more tomorrow.

Bi-lingual, no problem, I can certainly help with the translations and so can B. Boor (Welshman by residence)

[Fiorentina 1]

Here's one for your list: www.nickjonesracing.com

Nick Jones is a young Welsh-American driver racing in the National Class of the British Formula Three Championship this coming season. Note the tribute to Tom Pryce on his helmet.

[Mac Lark]

Always nice to a young driver with a sense of history.

[llmaurice]

Boshier-Jones , single seater driver and Chris Martyn -(Taylor & Crawley ) Lotus XV come to mind instantly for me.

[David McKinney]

Two Boshiers-Jones, in fact
And wasn't there a later generation too?

[D-Type]

Parry Thomas?

[Patrick Fletcher]

Innes Ireland, a Scot who lived in Wales and drove English racing cars.
Did Innes actually live in Wales or was it a myth to sell the book?

[Gary Davies]

Originally posted by D-Type
Parry Thomas?

Er, yes?

He wasn't Welsh? >> Born in Wrexham, grew up in Bwlch-y-Cibau, Montgomeryshire. (Can't come to terms with this Sir Drefaldwyn hooey!)

or

He didn't race, just broke speed records? >> Raced from May 21 1922 to October 2 1926, mainly at Brooklands but also, a couple of times, at Montlhéry

Iechyd da, JGPT!

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by Patrick Fletcher
Innes Ireland, a Scot who lived in Wales and drove English racing cars.
Did Innes actually live in Wales or was it a myth to sell the book?

How do you become a Scot when you are born in Mytholroyd, Nr Todmorden, Yorkshire?

[Backing-kick]

Originally posted by Stephen W


How do you become a Scot when you are born in Mytholroyd, Nr Todmorden, Yorkshire?

From wikipedia:


Ireland was born June 12, 1930 in Mytholmroyd, Yorkshire, England, the son of a Scottish veterinary surgeon. His family returned to Kirkcudbright in Scotland during his youth, and he trained as an engineer with Rolls Royce, first in Glasgow and later in London. Commissioned as a lieutenant in the King's Own Scottish Borderers, he served with the Parachute Regiment in the Suez Canal Zone during 1953 and 1954.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Stephen W


How do you become a Scot when you are born in Mytholroyd, Nr Todmorden, Yorkshire?

Tod's border country - it's been part of Lancashire, it's been part of Yorkshire....;)

Mytholmroyd is unequivocally Yorkshire though and a lovely part thereof - not quite as wonderful as the nearby Hebden Bridge, but Calderdale as a whole is delightful.

[D-Type]

Originally posted by Stephen W


How do you become a Scot when you are born in Mytholroyd, Nr Todmorden, Yorkshire?

We've been this way before - nationality and place of birth are not the same thing. I was born in Iraq to British parents and hold British nationality. As my father was a Scot, I consider myself Scottish although living in England. Had I lived in Iraq all my life, rather than leaving at the age of six months, I would probably hold Iraqi citizenship and consider myself Iraqi.

[D-Type]

Originally posted by D-Type
Parry Thomas?

The ? was because I wasn't sure and was seeking confirmation, not because I was questioning his Welshness.

[Richard Jenkins]

Hmmm.. some interesting early feed back, thanks. Gareth Rees certainly sounds Welsh doesn't he, but I don't think he is (at least not directly) - Tom Jones (F1 non-qualifier) being a good example as names not necessarily being the deciding factor.
Ken


Good to see, at last, a young Welshman in the lower formulae. Nothing since 1977 is far too long a gap, especially when Hungary & India get in the act! :

[KJJ]

Donald Marendaz, Sir Clive Edwards, Albert Powell, Dig Diggory......that pretty young presenter from S4C Lisa Gwilym.................How far down the formulas and how recent do you intend covering Richie?

Lots of more recent drivers here:

http://www.wrda.co.u...ory/history.htm

[bill moffat]

There can be very few Welsh motor sport enthusiasts who haven't yearned for a top-class Welsh driver to emerge after that March weekend 28 years ago. That day I was at the Arms Park watching my countrymen defeating the English at rugby..the subsequent pub celebration was shattered by the news from South Africa....

Maurice Charles ran a car showroom in North Rd Cardiff. My mother bought a Hillman Imp off him, as a lad I was more interested in the other rear-engined device that squatted in the corner..a GT40. The Boshier Jones's had their garage over the other side of the city and you would sometimes catch a glimpse of one of their hillclimb cars.

I guess the major (Welsh) problem has been the lack of an "academy", Llandow was never exactly cutting edge but it gave some opportunity for experience. Allan Taylor ran a driving school there(using Alexis FF's) for a couple of years.

Other random thoughts, well Julian Westwood ran British F3000 to good effect whilst Vernon Davies was seriously effective in Clubmans.

The valley's Mafia, Dave McCloy from Brynmawr and Tony (father of Grant) Williams from Risca were the saloon car elite along with poor Joe Gregory until his luck ran out...

..and finally was there not a classmate of Tom Pryce's named ? Dafydd Roberts who won an F3 race ?

[Mac Lark]

Originally posted by Patrick Fletcher
Innes Ireland, a Scot who lived in Wales and drove English racing cars.

I've got that book too Patrick! - A 'Swift' book as I recall.

Any info on a Tom Pryce Memorial award?

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by Mac Lark


Any info on a Tom Pryce Memorial award?

I think it was Tom's father who presented the T.P. Memorial Cup to the winner of the Eurocar race at Pembrey in 1999, not sure as to whether the Cup has re-emerged in subsequent years.

With the greatest respect I felt that this was a missed opportunity and a de-valuation of the name, not unlike the "Jim Clark Cup" for normally aspirated F1 cars many years back.

Perhaps an FIA-blessed Tom Pryce Cup for the most promising newcomer to F1 would be appropriate, although there would be those who would argue that a Baghetti Cup or Brise Cup (for the sake of argument) might be equally appropriate !

Incidentally, back in the days of F5000 and non-championship F1 Bob Miller's Dulon would always be on ante-pole and rumble around at the back of the field. He was a permanent fixture at Libre races at Llandow and I assumed he was Welsh..but was he ?

[ReWind]

I think Gary Evans, F3 & F3000 racer of the mid- to late-1980's, is Welsh.

As is Rex Greenslade from the world of touring cars.

And Gwyndaf Evans from the rallying scene.

Alas, Nicky Grist and David Richards don't fit the criteria because they are/were "only" co-drivers. But Welsh they are, aren't they?

[johnwilliamdavies]

Here's a few more;

Charles Martin from Abergavenny

Berwyn Baxter who raced a Kieft (born in Wales) with a Turner (born in Wales) engine at Le Mans. Also raced an ex-Ecurrie Ecosse C-type and an Aston Martin DB3s

Charles Sgnonina more of a motorcycle designer/racer but raced at Brooklands, raced Aston Martin DB3s and DBR1

Jim Diggory raced a Cooper Monaco and a Lister-Jaguar. Built Gwynniad F Junior and had a hand in Heron F junior.

Charles Headland F3 500

Nigel Rowland F3 500

Cliff Edwards F3 500

Jack Niell F3 500

Peter "taffy" Cottrell raced Lotus 15

Tony David died in a Lotus 22 at Dunbyne

Ken Wilson won sprint championship. Gilbern GT and B.R.M

Tim Davies raced Formula 3

Phil Kempe raced Formula 3

Karl Jones raced Formula 3 and a bit of BTCC

2005 is centenary of Welsh motor sport as first hillclimb was held at Buttrill's Hill Barry on 8th of July 1905.

[LittleChris]

I believe Gareth Rees was actually from Bath which I think is in Avon.

Didn't Gary Evans come from Luton ? I seem to remember that his dad ( David ? ) was the chairman of Luton Town FC and a rabid and outspoken Thatcherite in the 80's

[bill moffat]

Ken Wilson also raced a Lotus 30 and a McLaren M1?B. I'm pretty sure it was he who suffered an engine failure prior to the Weston sprint one year. Undaunted, his massive American station wagon was pressed into service, racing numbers hastily stuck to its massive flanks it ran impressively down the sea-front....

I didn't realise that Sgonina was a Brooklands racer, but I still remember the sight of the ex Border Reivers DBR1 (FSH 360) dicing with Frogeyes etc at Llandow...even then it seemed incongruous.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by johnwilliamdavies
Here's a few more;

Jim Diggory raced a Cooper Monaco and a Lister-Jaguar. Built Gwynniad F Junior and had a hand in Heron F junior.

I think there's some sort of "interesting" story behind the Gwyniad/Heron - Mike Lawrence apparently knows the details...

[Mac Lark]

I think if someone with a name like Gareth Rees, Delme Llewellyn, Brynmor Jenkins or Dai Lloyd-Evans was born in Bath, Birmingham or Bolivia and wanted to be 'known as a Welsh person' they could probably get away with it..

[johnwilliamdavies]

Originally posted by bill moffat
[
I didn't realise that Sgonina was a Brooklands racer, but I still remember the sight of the ex Border Reivers DBR1 (FSH 360) dicing with Frogeyes etc at Llandow...even then it seemed incongruous. [/B]

Charles Sgonina raced a 1914 TT Humber at Brooklands

there is a picture of Charles in Aston Martin at Castel farm hillclimb (near Bridgend) here
http://www.swanseamo...gonia_aston.htm

[dbalban]

This is a great idea and something I would love to see happen. Being an avid motorsport fan from such an early age and a true Welshman and being around Pembrey for as long as I can remember, even competing on the kart circuit there during the early 90's, a 'database' would be a great read.

If any help is needed with the Welsh translations then I can help out there if needed since Welsh is infact my first language and I speak it fluently everyday of my life. I can also have my mum help out since she is a Headmistress at a local school.

As for Nick Jones, thats a wonderful helmet design and something I toyed with when I was designing my racing helmet colourschemes. As far as I know there is a young karter from North Wales (I forget his name) who has asked Tom's father for his consent to use Tom's racing helmet colours with the five stripes and the Welsh flag on each side.

I have managed to compile a large compendium of Tom Pryce information from various sources, be it websites, magazines, TV programmes or Newspapers, even a letter from Tom's father. This information was meant to be bundled together for my website The Tom Pryce Archive but due to work and other commitments this website never really had the chance to get off the ground. I am more than happy to share the information I have gathered.

Other Welshmen in motorsport? Well I am not fully aware of all the Welshmen who took part in International racing events. It seems that most Welshmen were more inclined to go rallying than circuit racing but even then top flight drivers were/are rare. Welsh co-drivers are much more common place on the world scene in recent years.

Good luck with this project, I for one will be an interested forum member who'll keep an eye on development and progress.

[Vitesse2]

With a name like Ted Lloyd Jones, I'd think the builder/driver of the fearsome Swandean Spitfire Special must have at least had Welsh connections.

[bill moffat]

It could all have been so different. Between the wars there were grandiose plans for a Grand Prix track in the Wenallt hills North of Cardiff. This area would have been ideal for a mini-Nurburgring style of track but it all died a death.

A couple of miles north of the Wenallt was Caerphilly Mountain which was a reasonably famous hill climb venue from 1907. Take the mountain bike route across these hills and you arrive at Lord Bute's folly, Castell Coch, another hill climb venue although less notorious.

[Mallory Dan]

Originally posted by LittleChris
I believe Gareth Rees was actually from Bath which I think is in Avon.

Didn't Gary Evans come from Luton ? I seem to remember that his dad ( David ? ) was the chairman of Luton Town FC and a rabid and outspoken Thatcherite in the 80's

Agree re Gary Evans, definitely son of David, one of Maggie's favourites.

Gary E was a bit of a rich kid, but he did win a 'proper' F3 race against good opposition in 1985, so he must have had something, though at the time I believe all was not neccessarily what it seemed in F3...

As for Daffydd Roberts, I think he also won an F3 race of some sort in about 1974-75, in a March 743, though IIRC not a full championship race. Willing to be corrected on these matters, but not that David E would ahve made a good Home Sec !!!

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by Mallory Dan


As for Daffydd Roberts, I think he also won an F3 race of some sort in about 1974-75, in a March 743, though IIRC not a full championship race.

I reckon you're right, it was a non-championship race at Silverstone. Motoring News gleefully reported that he had been a school/class mate of Tom Pryce.

Google searches of Dafydd Roberts/March/Silverstone unearthed nothing and my copies of MN followed priceless Dinky toys etc into the bin.

There is a Dafydd Roberts running a mountain bike track up at Coed-y- Brenin, one and the same perhaps ??

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by johnwilliamdavies



Charles Sgonina raced a 1914 TT Humber at Brooklands

there is a picture of Charles in Aston Martin at Castel farm hillclimb (near Bridgend) here
http://www.swanseamo...gonia_aston.htm

Many thanks for that photo jwd and welcome to the forum.

Looking at your profile I wonder whether you can shed any light on the sand-trials at Porthcawl ?

[Huw Jadvantich]

Presumably Bob Evans has as much Welsh blood in him as Parnelli Jones?

[RS2000]

There is a Dafydd Roberts running a mountain bike track up at Coed-y- Brenin, one and the same perhaps ??

Coed-y-Brenin. Another great venue lost to motorsport through other uses of the forest...

[D-Type]

how about 'Pop' Lewis Evans?
Although Stuart was born in Luton, he was often described as being Welsh so I wonder if 'Pop' was born west of the dyke. Or is it just the surname?

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by Huw Jadvantich
Presumably Bob Evans has as much Welsh blood in him as Parnelli Jones?

...correct, along with Beckenham's very Welsh-sounding Stuart Lewis-Evans.

[johnwilliamdavies]

Originally posted by bill moffat



Looking at your profile I wonder whether you can shed any light on the sand-trials at Porthcawl ?

I'm afraid I can't add any new information. There are a few books on the history of Porthcawl, but none of them mention it. The local antique shop has never had any photos or anything come in, and the library hasn't anything either. The Western Mail covered them at the time, but I've yet to see a copy.

The best source of information I've found is T R Nicholson's Speed Hillclimbs and Speed Trials in Britain: 1899-1925. He gives lots of information on the competitors, cars and times, and also has a number of photographs.
There are also photographs in Bill Brunell's The Golden Age of British Motoring, a couple of which were published in the April 1996 issue of Classic and Sportscar (the top 100 classics issue).

For those who don't know Porthcawl Sand trials were run in 1912, 1913, 1914, 1921, 1922, 1923, and 1924. They took place on the same weekend as the Caerphilly Hillclimb (except 1921) and attracted a number of the bigger names of the time including Raymond Mays (Bugatti), Humphrey Cook (TT Vauxhall), HFS Morgan (Morgan) Malcolm Campbell (Sunbeam), W.O. Bentley, G. Eyston and A.C. Bertelli.
In relation to this thread A.J. Sgonina (Charles's brother) took part part in a GN, and F.J. Boshier-Jones (who I presume is the father of Peter, David and Anthony) ran in a Gwynne.

If anyone has additional information I'd love to know.

[Richard Jenkins]

Ken - how far or how much? Depends, really - a chronicle of every Welshman involved in racing is probably too much of an effort - even for me ;) , but maybe a sample number & then expand from that?
Given the lists here 50 or 100 to go on seems reasonable. But it won't be a best 50 etc. as I hardly need all the fuss about whether he was better than so & so etc.

Doubtless I will muse a lot more yet about the best format, criteria etc for it but it's not called my long-term project for nothing! I'll aim for a 2007 "unveiling", if only to pin me down to some timeline, if nothing else it keeps me focused!

Thanks very much for the early notes, I will keep this thread close to mind as things develop.


and to further expand on one point - Gary Evans is about as Welsh as Rolf Harris

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins


and to further expand on one point - Gary Evans is about as Welsh as Rolf Harris

Richie, this is an unfortunate analogy. The Rolfster's parents were Welsh and lived in Cardiff and Maesteg before emigrating to Oz.... He's a Welshman !!

[KJJ]

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins



and to further expand on one point - Gary Evans is about as Welsh as Rolf Harris

er......that wouldn't be Rolf Harris the grandson of the Merthyr artist George Frederick Harris would it?

[fines]

Originally posted by bill moffat
Google searches of Dafydd Roberts/March/Silverstone unearthed nothing...

Perhaps if you tried Dyfed Roberts?;)

[oh, and the race was July 6, 1975, 15 laps of Silverstone Club circuit, 2nd Ken Silverstone, 3rd Doug Bassett etc...]

[Richard Jenkins]

Originally posted by KJJ


er......that wouldn't be Rolf Harris the grandson of the Merthyr artist George Frederick Harris would it?

No, er... I meant.... Rolf Harris, the ...er... um obscure Canadian Trans-Am er... mechanic ;)


*Kicks himself for making sweeping statements about people with Welsh surnames *

[johnwilliamdavies]

Talking of Welsh Australians, Stan Jones esteemed racer and father of world champion Alan was supposedly born in Wales.

[bill moffat]

I guess what this thread highlights is the fact that Tom Pryce has been the only consistently competitive Welsh racing driver at International level.

If you take the post WW2 period I can think of atleast 20 Scottish drivers who have mixed it at similar level. Scotland is more remote from England's motor racing heartland and, like Wales, is devoid of a top-class circuit. So what's it all about ?

Incidentally it can't all be about population mass, 15 men from Wales polished off France at rugby yesterday.....

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by bill moffat
I guess what this thread highlights is the fact that Tom Pryce has been the only consistently competitive Welsh racing driver at International level.

If you take the post WW2 period I can think of atleast 20 Scottish drivers who have mixed it at similar level. Scotland is more remote from England's motor racing heartland and, like Wales, is devoid of a top-class circuit. So what's it all about ?

Incidentally it can't all be about population mass, 15 men from Wales polished off France at rugby yesterday.....

Without wishing to be (unnecessarily) unpleasant to it, Wales is culturally much more isolated from "the rest of the world" than Scotland. Historically, it hasn't had much in the way of a sophisticated upper-middle class which is where most (but by no means all) drivers have come from. The population's also rather spread-out with very few larger communities, and I don't think you can discount the influence of Chapel in preventing people from doing things on Sundays!

Wales has been a poor relation of England for the best part of 900 years - near-subsistence agriculture, mining and labour-intensive heavy industry just don't create the kind of culture that can provide the kind of leisure time necessary for many people to be able to get involved in something as expensive and pointless as racing!

It also occurs to me that countries with a strong racing tradition generally had a strong engineering one, at least in the first half of the last century - and Wales is overshadowed by both England, Scotland and Northern Ireland on that front. Wales was very good at raw material....

[Mark A]

Andy Walsh




A news report about his training courses.


Fast Track to Road Safety
By Mary Rees.
Swansea Evening Post Business Plus

November 2000

Experienced motorists know acquiring a driving license is just the start of a lifetime's lesson in car safety skills - but getting that message over to 17 year olds brimming with confidence is another matter.

1st Lotus Driving School is a new business venture which uses the prospect of six hours tuition in a £25,000 Lotus Elise open top sports car to equip new drivers with such skills.

It has been set up by racing driver and driving instructor Andrew Walsh of Clos Brynafon, Gorseinon, who has a personal interest in road safety.

His 26 year old cousin James Dupplaw, from Killay, died early this year when his Porsche 968 veered off the road and hit a cottage in Buckinghamshire, and Andrew said. "He was not able to control a high performance car and we want to stop that happening to anyone else.

Every 17 year old thinks they are a brilliant driver but this course not only gives them practical skills but also cuts their insurance costs.

It costs £130 and covers driving in town, in all weathers, at night, on dual carriageways and motorways and can be taken up to a year after passing the basic driving test.

When the instructor is satisfied with your performance you get a certificate from the Driving Standards Agency and motor insurers who support the scheme will give a one-year no claims bonus on your insurance. The idea of doing a Pass Plus is to try to improve your odds of staying alive, since new drivers make up just ten per cent of license holders but are involved in 29 per cent of accidents."

Andrew says many parents are giving the course as a Christmas present and those who passed their test more years than they care to remember can also take up the option.

"In their case they must be examined by a police officer in a 90 minute test before they can get the certificate, but they also enjoy savings on insurance cover."

[ian senior]

He wasn't all that good as a racing driver, but I think Martyn Howse deserves to be mentioned, if only because of the description "hamburger tycoon" that was applied to him by the press. I also liked his gold overalls and the fact that by some (timekeeping?) miracle his Royale RP11 suddenly appeared on the front of the grid for one F3 race, having spent most of the season pottering around at the back of the field.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by LittleChris
Didn't Gary Evans come from Luton ? I seem to remember that his dad ( David ? ) was the chairman of Luton Town FC and a rabid and outspoken Thatcherite in the 80's

ISTR Gary Evans retiring an ostensibly healthy car in one F3000 race. Just so happened that Luton Town were playing in the League Cup Final that day.

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by petefenelon


It also occurs to me that countries with a strong racing tradition generally had a strong engineering one, at least in the first half of the last century - and Wales is overshadowed by both England, Scotland and Northern Ireland on that front. Wales was very good at raw material....

A bit harsh I reckon Pete. Over the last 30 years or so the loss of the mining industry has dove-tailed with massive rejuvenation in South Walian (in particular) industry. Ford has had a major presence and the Newport/Cardiff/Swansea M4 corridor now bristles with many high-tech companies (and speed cameras!). The area is now very prosperous and IMHO Cardiff is one of Europe's finest cities.

Elsewhere on TNF the demise of the French F1 driver is lamented, this illustrates that the whole motor sport picture is dynamic and subject to rapid change. I accept that my predecessors may have spent most of their time digging for coal and socialising with sheep, but the last couple of decades have been very different....