27 replies to this topic

[WINO]

In 1949 an Hungarian Count moves to Argentina to become a Porsche dealer. He enters races under the name Antonio von Dory and he dies in a Porsche RS-60 at Riverside in 1960. During the same period a gentleman by the name of "Fritz" d'Orey appears in various Grand Prix races, the last one being the U.S. Grand Prix at Sebring in 1959, in the Tec-Mec. After Riverside 1960 neither name appears in any race records.

Since I have noted von Dory's name also listed with the first name Anton and "Fritz" being a nickname often used for people of German descent, I wonder if these two identities are really one and the same. The reason why I bring this up is that in some books the names are treated as two different drivers. I always suspected that the Count was playing tricks wih his name. Anybody who can shed some light?

WINO

[David Holland]

These are two completely different guys, but have been confused in the past. Fritz d'Orey had a very serious accident at Le Mans at about the same time as your Hungarian driver was killed at Riverside and I believe the 2 were mixed up in some history books. It was widely quoted that d'Orey was dead but this was incorrect. In fact he lives on Copacabana Beach in Rio and has been interviewed in the last few years. I'm sure there was a transcript in Portuguese of that interview on atlas. I've read it somewhere on the web anyhow if it's not here.

[WINO]

David,

Thanks for the feedback. I just discovered that they HAVE to be two different people, as you say, as von Dory died at Riverside in April 1960 at the wheel of a Porsche RS-60 while d'Orey managed to get in the way of the Cunningham Jaguar E2A during Le Mans practice in June 1960, while drving a Serenissima 250GT. This must be the injury you were referring to.

I presume that von Dory was Argentinean while d'Orey was Brazilian.

WINO

[Vitesse2]

WINO: you might find this thread helpful -

http://forums.atlasf...&threadid=10680

[WINO]

Thanks Vitesse, this is most helpful.

As for the April 1960 Examiner GP at Riverside, there still seems to be confusion about who died at the wheel of that RS-60: Pedro or Antonio von Dory.

WINO

[ReWind]

Does this mean Antón von Döry aka Antonio von Dory died last summer (probably August 2004)?

And what had he to do with Puerto Rico?

[ReWind]

Quote

And what had he to do with Puerto Rico?

Perhaps an explanation here:

Quote

ENDI > POR DENTRO
La riqueza de la edad de oro
La idea de vivir junto a personas de su misma edad puede resultar positiva
lunes, 14 de abril de 2003

Por Teresita Heydrich Blanco
Especial El Nuevo Día

Un grupo de amigos en la Egida La Merced juega bingo para entretenerse. Ricardo Ramírez Buxeda / El Nuevo Día
ES UN atardecer cualquiera y Antonio von Döry, de 87 años, se dispone a realizar una caminata alrededor del complejo residencial para personas de la tercera edad donde reside. No va solo, le acompaña su amigo Jesús Ananda Terán, de cinco años.
Ambos se enriquecen mutuamente, la sabiduría de von Döry aporta juego e imaginación a la inocencia de Terán.
El viejo le contará al niño sus historias de cómo sobrevivió milagrosamente a la Segunda Guerra Mundial, para luego emigrar desde su Alemania de origen a Argentina, y convertirse en piloto de carreras de auto. Llegó a competir contra el mítico Fangio.
Hasta que en 1965, un nuevo país lo acogió, Puerto Rico. Al morir su esposa en 1982, Antonio vivió solo, ya que sus dos hijos, nacidos también en Europa, hicieron sus respectivas vidas en el Viejo Continente. Ahora disfruta de un merecido retiro. Se fuma un cigarrillo de vez en cuando, no ha podido dejar el vicio, rememora viejos tiempos con todo el que se le cruza a su paso y comparte momentos importantes con amigos de siempre. Mientras tanto confiesa ser "feliz" viviendo en la Egida La Merced, que ocupa los antiguos predios del Colegio La Merced en la avenida Domenech de Hato Rey.
La Egida La Merced "es un complejo multifamiliar" para la tercera edad, tal y como lo define Sara Ríos, su administradora. El edificio sirve de residencia para 100 residentes, que ocupan sus 89 apartamentos.
"NO TENGO familia en Puerto Rico, pero estar aquí me da una sensación de seguridad. Saber que no estamos abandonados es importante para las personas de mi edad. También es fundamental no sentirse preso, aquí se ocupan de mí, me puedo mover y además me siento libre", expresa von Döry.
Sandra Chévere, trabajadora social de la Egida La Merced, reflexiona sobre la situación de los ciudadanos de la llamada edad de oro, en nuestros tiempos. "Muchos de los familiares no se ocupan de ellos. No los sacan a pasear, ni siquiera los visitan. Como consecuencia, viven en soledad, en aislamiento, y se deprimen", expone.
La idea de vivir en unas instalaciones residenciales junto a personas de su misma edad puede resultar positiva, según la trabajadora social. "Comparten, se ayudan unos a otros, socializan, se distraen, sin rechazo".
La Egida La Merced provee a sus residentes "las facilidades de su propio apartamento con su baño", explica Chévere, en costos que oscilan de $113 a $316 mensuales, descontando agua y luz. Para cualificar "se debe tener 60 años o más, valerse por sí mismo y tener un ingreso, en el caso de una persona, de $1,055 al mes, sin deducciones, y en el caso de dos personas, de $1,205 al mes sin deducciones. No hay que ser residente del área de Hato Rey", explica la administradora.
Chévere y Ríos organizan actividades recreativas para los residentes que incluyen la celebración del Día de las Madres y el de los Padres, Navidades, fiestas de cumpleaños, San Valentín "donde se elige al rey y la reina", cuenta Chévere, y noche de brujas "donde gana el mejor disfraz", cuenta.
RIOS INFORMA que "se está proyectando poner un centro de cuidado diurno para envejecientes, anexo a la Egida. Los fondos ya están asignados por OGAVE (Oficina de la Gobernadora para Asuntos de la Vejez)".
Al mismo tiempo, a la administradora le inquieta "la falta de visitas que reciben algunos residentes; los hijos deben entender que aunque sus padres están aquí no han dejado de existir. Al menos aquí son felices y eso me consta porque están entre gente de su misma edad".
"Lidiar con envejecientes no es fácil, hay que saber qué trato darles. Si sucede una situación, tenemos que estar preparadas para salir corriendo. Por eso, yo vengo a trabajar en ropa cómoda. No pasan más de dos días sin que yo pregunte por un residente que no veo", expresa Ríos.
Félix Ortiz, de 68 años, un residente no vidente de la Egida La Merced, afirma "sentirse muy seguro. Aquí me tratan como a todo el mundo, no me siento diferente".
"Cuando llegó aquí, lo estaban desalojando", cuenta Ríos.
"A veces salgo un ratito a las actividades y comparto", continúa Ortiz. "En este tipo de eventos uno se distrae" Ana Rosario, de 79 años, impedida, dice que vivir en la Egida "es muy bueno y me gusta esta zona, es tranquila".

Would someone who is capable of the Spanish language tell us if it is containing valuable info about Anton von Dory?

[eukie]

Just came across an article in ADAC-Motorwelt 1950 on post-war motorcycle-racing in Argentina. It names some european immigrants who, according to that report, have innovated and dominated motorcycle-races there: Stefan Abt, Sepp Neubauer, Kurt Schröder, Adalbert Forrey, Stefan R. Martinez, and brothers Peter and Anton von Döry - the last one being the most outstanding and successful of them, especially reknown for his smooth style with his Velocette 350 cc and Triumph 500 cc.

[jarama]

Quote

Originally posted by ReWind
Perhaps an explanation [url="http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:-ZAE2maiAMQJ:<a%20href="http://www.endi.com/noticia.asp%3Fnewsid%3D29345+%22von+d%C3%B6ry%22&hl=de"%20target="_blank">www.endi.com/noticia.asp%3Fnewsid%3D29345+%22von+d%C3%B6ry%22&hl=de</a>"]here[/url]: Would someone who is capable of the Spanish language tell us if it is containing valuable info about Anton von Dory?

ReWind,

I've just found your enquiry:

The text in Spanish says that Anton was born in Germany, emigrated to Argentina after the 2nd WW and became racing driver. His two sons were born and live in Europe and his wife died back in 1982. He lives in Puerto Rico from 1965 and was 87 y.o. when this article was published (April 14th, 2003).


Carles.

[eukie]

Quote

Originally posted by jarama


ReWind,

I've just found your enquiry:

The text in Spanish says that Anton was born in Germany, emigrated to Argentina after the 2nd WW and became racing driver. His two sons were born and live in Europe and his wife died back in 1982. He lives in Puerto Rico from 1965 and was 87 y.o. when this article was published (April 14th, 2003).


Carles.

Whereas the Motorwelt-feature from 1950 states that the Von Döry-brothers were Austrians ...

[WINO]

A new riddle: Hungarian, Austrian or German. Which nationality is likely to have moved to South America after the war?


WINO

[Jim Thurman]

Quote

Originally posted by WINO
A new riddle: Hungarian, Austrian or German. Which nationality is likely to have moved to South America after the war?

California Death Records list von Dory as born in Hungary.

[Richard Jenkins]

Quote

Originally posted by Jim Thurman


California Death Records list von Dory as born in Hungary.

But he didn't die in California.

Born in Germany, but of Hungarian citizenship initially - also remember that when von Dory was born, he was born in the dying days of Austrian-Hungarian empire.

[Wolf]

Quote

Originally posted by WINO
A new riddle: Hungarian, Austrian or German. Which nationality is likely to have moved to South America after the war?


WINO

Is this question with 'agenda'? All three nations quite likely- South Africa was coveted destination for people from 'Axis countries' (Hungary had Nazi regime too- we call them 'Arrow crosses')... My compatriots had been emmigrating there from way earlier (most notably Puenta Arenas in Tierra del Fuego), but again quite a number of ppl from our Nazi regime fled there (but to be fair, a number of people fleeing Communists as well).

[Jim Thurman]

Quote

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins


But he didn't die in California.

Born in Germany, but of Hungarian citizenship initially - also remember that when von Dory was born, he was born in the dying days of Austrian-Hungarian empire.

Ah, I see the confusion...which I greatly contributed to.

I was referring to Pedro von Dory, who died at Riverside International Raceway in an accident in April 1960 (see first post in thread, though that might make it more confusing).

Perhaps I should amend my old post to reflect that I was referring to Pedro and not Anton. Which of course was caused by my poor choice of quoting a post about Anton.

Good point about the Austro-Hungary empire, but I just put down what it gave in the California Death Index (for Pedro). I'll let everyone else sort out the exacts on that one.

[Richard Jenkins]

Ah right.
Just to clear it all up for everyone, Antonio von Dory died in Puerto Rico and was the one born in Germany.

[heidi2985]

His name is Anton von Döry, not Antonio and the one who died in the car accident was his brother Pedro. I'm his granddaughter. And yes he was German, my grandmother was the Hungarian. In the article says that was alone in Puerto Rico and that is also not true. My father and uncle also live in Puerto Rico.

[sramoa]

Unfortunately this a most typical East European problem.I know person like that who lived for all of them in a village and at least six were different citizens in the twentieth century.I saw Döry name in much old Hungarian newspaper than competitor the 30s years,but maybe from this direction pnegyesi would be able to tell a story better...

[ReWind]

@heidi2985:
You call your grand-uncle Pedro. Did he actually change his name? I ask because I suspect his given name was Peter.

Would you tell us in which place(s) Anton and Peter von Döry were born?

[sramoa]

I searching a genealogy and I find this:

jobaházai Dőry Antal(Antal Dőry of Jobaháza) was born in Budapest 31.7.1916 married with Piroska Széplaki.He had got more three brothers:Gyula,Béla and youngest Péter(Peter) who was born in Pusztaszentkereszt 22.7.1918, +Sebrin, USA 4.4.1960
Antal has got two sons Peter(b. in 1944) and Antal(b. in 1946)
The family lived in western Hungary Zomba village near Szekszárd,later moved to Budapest
Pusztaszentkereszt near Keresztur(former Bars county)-today is Hostie village in Slovakia

[Muzza]

sramoa, on Dec 3 2011, 10:56, said:

I searching a genealogy and I find this:

jobaházai Dőry Antal(Antal Dőry of Jobaháza) was born in Budapest 31.7.1916 married with Piroska Széplaki.He had got more three brothers:Gyula,Béla and youngest Péter(Peter) who was born in Pusztaszentkereszt 22.7.1918, +Sebrin, USA 4.4.1960
Antal has got two sons Peter(b. in 1944) and Antal(b. in 1946)
The family lived in western Hungary Zomba village near Szekszárd,later moved to Budapest
Pusztaszentkereszt near Keresztur(former Bars county)-today is Hostie village in Slovakia

Thank you, Richard (and Reinhard for asking).

[sramoa]

Wolf, on Nov 17 2006, 21:40, said:

Is this question with 'agenda'? All three nations quite likely- South Africa was coveted destination for people from 'Axis countries' (Hungary had Nazi regime too- we call them 'Arrow crosses')... My compatriots had been emmigrating there from way earlier (most notably Puenta Arenas in Tierra del Fuego), but again quite a number of ppl from our Nazi regime fled there (but to be fair, a number of people fleeing Communists as well).

I do not have too much information unfortunately from a Dőry family after the war,but I am sure of it quasi,how they did not have Nazi past.The rest of the family's members lived on Budapest keep moving.Presumably because of the communist regime and/or a right in the hope of a life they went into South America.(Similar the story for example in Sándor Wilheim case who would have loved in this time to enter sporting event onto Indy 500-but this was worth a suicide in this time.)The Hungarian nobiliary families' majority was due similarly unfortunately-i know because my family got its share of a similar fate.

[heidi2985]

Well Pedro is in spanish, his birth name was Peter.  Peter and my grandfather Anton were of German descent, but they were born in Hungary.  My grandmother's name was Piroska Kovacs not Piroska Széplaki.  Well they came to Puerto Rico because things were not going well in Argentina, so they decided to move the business here.  MY grandfather was the one who introduced Porsche, Volvo and NSU in Puerto Rico.

[Patrick Fletcher]

This link may be of interest - you may have to register to enjoy the photos! http://www.ferrarich...y-white-ff.html

[nexfast]

It is amazing how this confusion still lingers, In his otherwise fascinating book about the Cuba GPs, "Caribbean Capers" , published in 2010, Joel E. Finn dedicates half a page to Fritz d'Orey, making the story even more complex. He says that a provisonal entry for the 1958 race  was received  from a Frederick von Dorey (sic), a resident of Argentina with an Argentinean licence but born in Brazil in 1938. But when presenting his credentials the driver showed a brazilian licence in the name of Frederico d'Orey. The organisers were puzzled and even more because the driver looked much younger that his 19 years-old. Questions were sent to FIA in Paris to clarify the matter. Their reply was that they were shocked to have an individual showing two different licences with slightly different names but permission was given for him to race while they were trying to clarify the matter.

 

Finn's tale becomes then even more bizarre. The organisers interviewed the drive who claimed that his german grandfather migrated to Brazil where he changed his last name from Von Dorey to d'Orey to make it less germanic and more portuguese. The organisers just thought at the end that they were facing a rich kid who was keeping a german name to create the impression he was coming from nobility. Finn finishes the story with this extraordinary line: "D'Orey continued to use both names during his short racing career and caused similar confusion at the United States Grand Prix in 1959."

 

Now, from what is written above concerning birthdates, the driver appearing in Havana had to be Fritz d'Orey (Anton von Dory would be 42 years-old and Pedro 40; not likely to look like teenagers), As far as I know Fritz is of portuguese origin (his portuguese parents migrated to Brazil, he currently lives in Portugal), So, why would he invent a german forebear? He raced in Argentina by that time, so nothing untoward in having an argentinean licence but could it be that he was trying to impersonate Von Dory to escape questions about his age? And what was the confusion at the US GP.? Maybe Doug Nye who wrote a book about the subject knows more about it (I cannot find anything in his book).

[Jack-the-Lad]

Patrick Fletcher, on 07 Oct 2013 - 08:17, said:

This link may be of interest - you may have to register to enjoy the photos! http://www.ferrarich...y-white-ff.html

Patrick Fletcher, on 07 Oct 2013 - 08:17, said:

This link may be of interest - you may have to register to enjoy the photos! http://www.ferrarich...y-white-ff.html

I am active on Ferrari Chat and I have sent a private message to Fritz d'Orey inviting him to join the discussion here.

Jack

[Jerry Entin]

 

 

This comes from Willem Oosthoek:

 

"As the one who started this thread under my initials WINO some 10 years ago, I would like to add a few things to the posting by Nexfast.

 

First of all, Joel Finn's Caribbean Capers book is well worth the price for its images alone. It contains an in-depth coverage of racing in Cuba in general, not only of the three Cuban Grand Prix held there, and deserves a place in everybody's library.

 

That's why some of the flaws in it are so maddening. The d"Orey Story told on page 224 is truly bizarre, as Fritz d'Orey had been racing in various events in at least two South American countries. We know now that he was Brazilian, born in Sao Paulo in March 1938. He could not have looked any younger than Masten Gregory and certainly was not related to brothers Anton/Antonio and Peter/Pedro von Dory of Argentina, before that the Hungarian Empire.

 

Obviously Finn never saw this thread as he continues to give Fritz full coverage in the rest of the book, actually replacing, in his coverage of the 1960 Cuban GP, one of the participating von Dory brothers [most likely Pedro] by Fritz.

 

In 1960 d'Orey was not even there. The von Dory Porsche RSK shows the same light blue/white stripes [see pages 336, 350 and 364] that the 1959 Daytona 1000 KM-winning Argentinean RSK of Antonio von Dory carried. Plus, the car features a RA decal on its tail, indicating it came from Argentina. Arbitrary name changes like this bode no good for the integrity of motor racing history.

 

Also curious is that, while Finn puts Fritz in a #62 Porsche 550RS in the 1958 Cuban GP, the book Grand Prix, from Havana to Miami, has Huschke von Hanstein in the #62 Porsche, with no sign of Fritz in the end results. Did he take the start at all?

 

Otherwise my beef concerns the various misidentifications of name [and soon-to-be-name] drivers:

 

P104 Phil Hill, not Ottavio Guarducci

P104 Finnish driver Joakim Bonnier?

P121 Eugenio Castellotti, not Jean Lucas

P201 Yes, Eddie Crawford in the Kimberly 450S at Nassau 1958, but it was sold to Don Perkins six months earlier

P259 Johnny Cuevas, not Lucky Casner

P289 Lorenzo Bandini, not Renato Pirocchi

P302 Huschke von Hanstein, not Modesto Bolanos

P330 No need to ID the well-dressed Giovanni Volpi next to Bertocchi? It was his first international appearance as a car owner [Colin Davis' Cooper/Maserati]

 

Otherwise, still an excellent book and very enjoyable read."

[nexfast]

Fully agree, one of the most enjoyable books I have read lately, so it is a pity that a few mishaps barged their way in. I researched a little bit more the d'Orey family in Portugal and it seems that they might descend indeed from a german gentleman who came to the country in the mid-nineteen century, So Fritz wasn't necessary far from the truth speaking about his german ancestry. Still does not explain the confusion with the Von Dorys.