23 replies to this topic

[D-Type]

In his autobiography Innes Ireland tells how Major Rupert Robinson, a friend of his brother, sponsored him by putting up half the purchase price of £1300 for a Lotus XI.

Does anybody know any more about him?

[KJJ]

Originally posted by D-Type
In his autobiography Innes Ireland tells how Major Rupert Robinson, a friend of his brother, sponsored him by putting up half the purchase price of £1300 for a Lotus XI.

Does anybody know any more about him?

Not much I'm afraid

Innes's brother Allan was at that time a captain in the Royal Artillery. I've read a contemporary report, Autosport or Motor Sport, which gives the Major's initials as R. C. Robinson. If that is the case then this was probably Major Rupert Chater Robinson R. A., an Old Marlburian, something of a sportsman - Squash and Cricket. I'm not aware that he had any motor sport connections other than his friendship with the Irelands?

In his Autosport profile of 21/10/1960 Innes has this to say about Major Robinson, who is described as being in the "Airborne Artillery":

"One day he offered to buy me a car and run it for me. I just couldn't believe it. He finally convinced me that he meant what he had said and bought me a Series I Mk II Lotus. I had my first race in it in September (1956) at Goodwood where I came fourth in one event and second in another. The next week we went to Aintree, where I gained two seconds and broke the club lap record.

"This, of course, was a tremendous break for me and I just cannot find the words to express my gratitude to Major Robinson. However at the time I promised him that should the day ever come when I found myself making money out of racing, I would repay every penny he spent in giving me that golden opportunity. Now I am reaching the position where I can fulfil that promise."

[KJJ]

Not much known about Major Rupert Robinson then.

So does anyone know any more about the elderly lady who set Innes on the motor sport path, firstly by giving him Birken's "Full Throttle" as a Christmas present and then by leaving him her 1926 Bentley BGK8? I know her first name was Frances and she lived near Newton Stewart, any more details?

[Rupertlt1]

Lotus Eleven, 5 PPH, B.E.M.C. Small Torque, Ontario, July 1959:

 

Appearing on English courses this season

is a BRG Lotus II bearing BEMC's badge.

The driver is Murray Shill of Toronto, a

BEMC member fulfilling a dream in which

many of us would like to be the principal

character.

The story starts last October when Mur-

ray left for Lotus-land to seek a job and a

good used Lotus. He found both. The job

is at the MG plant where over a three-year

period he will work his way through the

plant while attending engineering school.

The Lotus, purchased with the hard-won

savings of a few years is the ex Innes Ire-

land car of 1957 and 1958.

Shortly before he got the Lotus, Murray

had a taste of high speed motoring when

he attended Cooper's Driving School and

did 11 laps (at £1 a lap) of Brands Hatch in

an F II Cooper. He says that the car hand-

les beautifully although it is a bit hairy for

a novice on this tight, hilly circuit.

So far this year Murray has competed in

four events, two each at Snetterton and

Goodwood. He has been plagued with wet

weather and gearbox trouble but things

have not been entirely discouraging. The

best show so far has been a 4th in the under

1500cc race at the 34th BARC Members

Meet at Goodwood on April 25.

The gearbox trouble led to considerable

modifications of the body-work at the 35th

BARC Members Meet at Goodwood. In

practice the car lost 2nd gear going through

the chicane as a result wiped out most

of the wattle fencing and a row of posts on

the outside of the curve. Everything has

been repaired now though (except the hole

in Murray's finances) and he is looking

forward to many more events this summer.

An incidental note is that Murray drives

his car to all events so that if any of you

who visit England this summer see a Lotus

licence number 5PPH go screaming past,

be sure to wave.

 

34th MEMBERS’ MEETING

GOODWOOD-25th April, 1959

Event 5, Five-lap Scratch Race B

(For non-supercharged cars up to 1500 c.c.)

1st – A.B. Rees (Lotus-Climax) 9 min 45.6 sec., 73.77 m.p.h.,

2nd – T. Maggs  (Lotus-Climax) 9 min 46.4 sec,

3rd – L.J. Jacobsz  (Lotus-Climax) 10 min 1.4 sec,

4th – M.R. Shill  (Lotus-Climax) 10 min  12.4 sec,

Fastest lap - T. Maggs  (Lotus-Climax)  1 min 54.2., 75.66 m.p.h.

END

 

Can anybody add to the history of this car and driver? RGDS RLT

[Rupertlt1]

I have two references, from the B.A.R.C. Yearbook 1958, which list the entrant of Innes Ireland as R.C. Robinson.

Do we have any evidence to link Lotus Eleven, 5 PPH, to Innes Ireland?

[Allan Lupton]

I have two references, from the B.A.R.C. Yearbook 1958, which list the entrant of Innes Ireland as R.C. Robinson.

Do we have any evidence to link Lotus Eleven, 5 PPH, to Innes Ireland?

In "All Arms and Elbows" the lower photo facing p16 shows "The author winning the Brooklands memorial Trophy from Chris Bristow and Keith Green, Goodwood 1957" and the leading car has the registration mark 5 BPH, apparantly applied with a tarbrush! DVLA says its date of first registration was 24 09 1956

[Rupertlt1]

Allan, From a photograph I have I am certain it is 5 PPH. Does that show up anywhere?

[David McKinney]

I have no record of 5PPH, but I have 5BPH with Ireland from September 1956 through 1957

[Graham Gauld]

Reference the registration number of the car Rupert Robinson bought for Innes to race I am not sure when it was actually given a proper registration number. Here you can see Innes with the car in a photo I took at Ollon VIllars hill climb in Switzerland where he had actually painted his own number on the car and not a legal British registration number as far as I am aware. The photo was taken in in September 1958

 

[Graham Gauld]

Inage Shack acting up again. If it does not work this time I will leave it until I can get it to work

 

[Allan Lupton]

Allan, From a photograph I have I am certain it is 5 PPH. Does that show up anywhere?

So far as I know that has to be wrong. Perhaps you can put the photo up

There is a photo of II in 5BPH on 11/5/57 at the Goodwood chicane in the Pictorial Review on pp300-1 of Motor Sport for June 1957. That shows a normal stick-on front plate rather than the crudely painted job I refer to above.

[David McKinney]

By 1958 Innes was running XIs for other people. 100RMI was one of them

[Rupertlt1]

I've put the photo here:

 

https://www.facebook...12789924&type=1

 

I've zoomed the picture and 5 PPH it is.

 

RGDS RLT

[Rupertlt1]

Here is Innes Ireland in 5 BPH in 1957:

https://revslib.stan...log/hk920nz3045

[Rupertlt1]

Here is Doug Graham in 100 RMI in 1958:

 

https://revslib.stan...log/py798dc6484

[Rupertlt1]

Other drivers entered by Innes Ireland in Lotus Eleven cars:

 

Mike McKee, Mike Taylor, J.F. Westcott, M.J.G. Graham, S.C.S. Martyn

[Rupertlt1]

The Goodwood book covers years 1948-1966. Crystal Palace book (cars 1937 to 1972) motorcycles raced before this and are covered. Both 2 volumes in slip case.

 

Murray Schill Races.

 

Goodwood.

 

34th Members Meeting 25-04-1959

Scratch Race (A) (Sports cars up to 1100cc)  10 laps

 

No 15  Lotus 11-Climax (296) Reg no: 5 BPH.  SG:  n/a  Result: 9 laps

 

Scratch Race (B) (Sports cars up to 1500cc non s/c)  5 laps

 

No 15  Lotus 11-Climax (296) Reg no: 5 BPH.  SG: (3rd)  Result: 4th, 5 laps, 10'12.4"

 

35th Members Meeting  06-06-1959

Scratch Race (A) (Sports cars up to 1100cc)  10 laps

 

No 12  Lotus 11-Climax (296) Reg no: 5 BPH.  SG: n/a  Result:  disqualified, reason ?

 

37th Members Meeting  11-07-1959

Scratch Race (A) ( up to 1100cc non s/c)  10 laps

 

No 14  Lotus 11-Climax (296) Reg no: 5 BPH.  SG:  n/a  Result: 7th, 10 laps, 18'01.2"

 

38th Members Meeting  26-09-1959

Scratch Race  (up to 1100cc)  10 laps

 

No 5  Lotus 1-Climax  SG:  n/a  Result:  did not start

 

46th Members Meeting  10-06-1961

Scratch Race (A) (Sports Cars up to 100cc non s/c)  5 laps

 

No  9  Lotus 11-Climax ("96)  Reg no: 5 BPH.  SG: (2nd)  Result:  retired, 2 laps, reason ?

 

Scratch Race (D) (Unlimited Sports Cars)  10 laps

 

No  9  Lotus 11-Climax (296)  Reg no: 5 BPH.  SG: (2nd)  Result: retired 0 lap, reason ?

 

48th Members Meeting  16-09-1961

Scratch Race (A) (Sports Cars up to 1100cc non s/c)  5 laps

 

No 53  Lotus-Climax  SG:  n/a  Result:  did not start

 

Scratch Race (D) (Unlimited Sports Cars)  10 laps

 

No 53  Lotus-Climax  SG:  n/a  Result:  did not start

 

Crystal Palace

 

National Meeting [2 Sept 1961]

Sports Cars up to 1100cc (Event 3)  10 laps

 

No 45  Lotus 11-Climax  SG: (10th)  Result: 7th, 10 laps, 11'48.8"

 

Invitation Handicap (First 7 cars in Events 3 and 4)  10 laps

 

No 45  Lotus 11-Climax (296)  SG:  60"  Result:  retired, 2 laps, reason ?

 

I've copied the above from another thread. The mystery re 5 PPH or 5 BPH deepens.

Plainly the authors of these two books:

A Record of Motor Racing at Goodwood By Robert Barker, A Record of Motor Racing at Crystal Palace By Richard Page

have concluded that Murray Shill was driving the ex-Innes Ireland Lotus XI 5 BPH.

Two pieces of evidence suggest otherwise. The only photograph of Murray Shill in the Lotus that we have shows 5 PPH on the nose.

Also the Shill car has the fullwidth 'road' style windscreen and not the single-seater style of 5 BPH.

It is of course possible that changes were made to adapt the car for road use.

The search for further evidence continues.

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 28 November 2014 - 21:59.

[Rupertlt1]

We can take it that these two books are "best efforts" re chassis numbers - no shame in that.

 

5BPH was originally applied to c/no 219, but after that was crashed in 1957 the parts went into a replacement frame, 296, which was also 5BPH. This car was raced in the 1172 formula by Bob Staples in 1958, but by 1963 was in storage in a barn in Wales. It was retrieved in 1982 by Ean Pugh, and raced by him, in very original condition, for the next dozen years or so.
Around about 1995/96, the parts were built into a third chassis, a replica built by Crosthwaite & Gardner, which was given the number 219. IIRC the stripped-out 296 was completed with other bits and sold on.
100RMI was a Series 2 car (c/no 338) but I don't know what happened to it after Ireland's time

 

 

The fate of 5 BPH does not seem to be consistent with being raced 1959-1961 by Canadian Murray Shill, painted BRG subsequently yellow, with a Coventry Climax motor?

(The change in body style may be a red herring as the regulations changed?)

A good question is what colour was 5 BPH when Ireland raced it, and also when found in the barn?

 

RGDS RLT

[Rupertlt1]

Now trying to trace all the Lotus Elevens connected to Innes Ireland.

The car of Christopher Martyn was according to him a Mk2:

http://forums.autosp...-2#entry2797065

and registered XTG 100:

https://revs-lib.sta...log/vc919bn3855

 

RGDS RLT

[Alan Cox]

A good question is what colour was 5 BPH when Ireland raced it, and also when found in the barn?

 

It was a pale blue when Ean Pugh raced it, in a patina acquired over many years, dents and all. Ean never repainted it.

Edited by Alan Cox, 05 December 2014 - 15:01.

[Rupertlt1]

Many thanks to Alan Cox. Another good question is what motor did 5 BPH have when discovered in the barn in Wales? Ford 1172 or Coventry-Climax?

 

RGDS RLT

[Rupertlt1]

From Brian Robinson (son of Major Rupert Robinson) lightly edited:

 

My late father was a friend of Alan Ireland, Innes’ brother, who was an army colleague.  One weekend Alan suggested to my parents that they might enjoy joining him to watch his younger brother racing at Goodwood.  Innes was 11 years younger than my father.

 

Innes at that time had an engineering workshop at Elstead, and used to drive an old Bentley at small club meetings. By all accounts the day’s outing was a great success, with Innes punching way above his weight.  After several whiskies that evening my father suggested that he helped buy him a ‘proper car’ to race with. 

 

The Lotus (5 BPH), which was nicknamed Chloe and painted in a very distinctive pale turquoise, was subsequently collected and, because in those days all cars had to be run-in, Innes and his engineering partner, Brit, drove it from Norfolk to Kirkcudbrightshire in Scotland (where Innes’ childhood home was) and back to our house in the village of Chute Forest near Andover in Hampshire.  I was a small boy but as you might imagine I distinctly remember the excitement of having this amazing looking thing in our driveway for a couple of days. I even sat in it.

 

Chute Forest House, incidentally, was some years later sold to Ronnie Hoare.  It now belongs to one of the Guinness family.

 

My father continued backing him till Innes started getting offers to join teams.  By that time the debt had been repaid and - as my father many years later described it to me – he was pleased not to be making money out of Innes risking his neck.

 

I was there when Innes won the Brooklands Memorial Trophy – ten years old and sporting a pit-crew badge.  I was also in the pits at some Easter Monday meeting (at Silverstone?) when he won two races with Stirling breathing down his neck throughout both of them – it made the papers that he had twice managed to hold off the Master.  He was such a wild, crazy, funny, charismatic character that he was a very important part of my childhood and that of my brother and sister.  My sister was his daughter’s godmother.

END

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 23 January 2015 - 15:06.

[D-Type]

This place is incredible!

 

I asked this question nearly 10 years ago!  And today I get a reply.

[Rupertlt1]

D-type: If you like Lotus cars then check this out:

 

http://forums.autosp...-8#entry7016183

 

RGDS RLT