12 replies to this topic

[Leo]

I read the Cosworth press release about the 2005-season (re-printed below) and now I am a little confused. For years we have known the Cosworth V10 as CR-1, CR-2, etc and suddenly the same engine is now CK or TJ. The CR-designation was probably just a badge name.

Does anybody have any idea about the 'real' names of the engine. My first guess is that CK is the 72 degree V10 and TJ the 90 degree, am I right?. Apparently the CR-6 engine was TJ series 8, so what were series 1 to 7? And how many series were there of the CK?


Cosworth press release
The 2004 FIA Formula One Technical Regulations presented a significant challenge to all engine manufacturers. Historically fresh engines have been installed for race day. In 2004 this was changed to mandate that a driver must utilise the same engine throughout the race weekend. The challenge was therefore to extend maximum race engine life from approximately 300km to 700km, whilst also continuing to improve engine performance without compromising reliability.

For 2005 the requirements are even more demanding in that the same engine must be utilised for two consecutive race weekends. Maximum race engine life is therefore again extended to approximately 1300km.

The Cosworth Formula One engine for the start of 2005 is the TJ2005 Series 10. This is a development of the TJ2004 Series 8 as used by Jaguar Racing Ltd & Jordan Grand Prix at the end of 2004.

The specification & detail design of critical components been reviewed against the 2005 requirements & changes have been made which give the most significant benefits to engine performance & reliability. The result is a Melbourne 2005 engine that revs higher (+300RPM), makes more power (+25BHP) & runs reliably for twice as long when compared to Melbourne 2004.

The TJ2005 Series 10 engine will race for the first time in the Red Bull Racing RB1 at Melbourne GP & also in the new Minardi PS05 from San Marino GP onwards. This will deliver a peak power improvement of 100BHP & double the engine life over the CK2004 (or CR-3L) engine currently utilised in the existing Minardi PS-04B chassis.

At Indianapolis GP it is planned that Red Bull Racing will enjoy a further significant performance step with the introduction of the TJ2005 Series 12. This engine is currently under development & will deliver significantly more power & revs over Series 10. It will be exclusive to Red Bull Racing & a development version (Series 11) with a gain of 30BHP & a maximum engine speed of 19000RPM has already been successfully track tested by the team.

In addition work is well underway on a new V8 engine to comply with the 2006 FIA Formula One Technical Regulations. The fact that these new regulations are much more restrictive & certain engine dimensions are constrained has a significant impact on the focus of the engine design work. By nature, this offers both an opportunity & a challenge. Various types of development engines are already running on the dyno & results so far have been very encouraging.

[scarbs]

I've no idea where the TJ prefix came from obviously soemthing to do with the new ownership. However there wil only be 90 degree units this year, the 72-degree CR3 Minardi ran last year will appear in the PS04b (if its allowed to race) but once the PS05 races, they will be the so called TJ units and are all 90-degrees

[xflow7]

Ta-ta, Jaguar.

[voice_of_reason]

CR-1 etc are press release names related to ownership (think "Cosworth Racing") during the Ford period.

CK, TJ etc are internal designations and are the first 2 characters of Cosworth part numbers for pieces in F1 engines during this period. There is no significance to the letters in Cosworth part numbers other than the engine family for which a part was first designed.

1999 Stewart SF-3 Ext Cosworth CR-1, Int CK
2000 Jaguar R1 Ext Cosworth CR-2, Int CK2000
2001 Jaguar R2 Ext Cosworth CR-3, Int CK2001
2002 Jaguar R3 Ext Cosworth CR-3, Int CK2002 to mid season then Ext CR-4 Int LK2002 from Canada
2003 Jaguar R4 Ext Cosworth CR-5, Int TJ2003
2004 Jaguar R5 Ext Cosworth CR-6, Int TJ2004
2005 RedBull RBR1 Ext Cosworth TJ2005, Int TJ2005


2002 Arrows A22 Ext Cosworth CR-3, Int CK2002

2003 Jordan Ext Ford-Cosworth RS1, Int LK2003 (ex Jag LK2002)
2004 Jordan Ext Ford-Cosworth RS2, Int TJ2004 (identical Jag TJ2004)

2003 Minardi Ext Cosworth CR-3, Int CK2003 (ex Arrows CK2002)
2004 Minardi Ext Cosworth CR3L, Int CK2004 (ex Minardi CK2003)
2005 Minardi Ext Cosworth TJ2005, Int TJ2005 (identical RBR TJ2005)


The CK family (ie CR-1 to CR-3) is 72°
The LK family (CR-4 and RS1) is 72°
The TJ family is 90°


The "series" are evolutions and upgrades within the families. Although referred to in press releases from time to time, I do not know if a clear trace exists in the public domain.

[Scorg]

This makes for some interesting reading over the engine types and their developments.
Although I was led to understand that the CR4 was a development of the CR3.

Also this may be of interest. The postcode around the milton keynes area, it starts with CR. Posible reason why it may of been used

[desmo]

Cosworth Racing sounds exponentially more likely.

Good stuff there v_o_r

[voice_of_reason]

CR is from Cosworth Racing (fact, not just opinion).


CR-4 was interchangeable with CR-3 in Jaguar R3 (constraint of mid season introduction), but was 10mm longer and had a bigger bore.

It would be reasonable to guess +2.0mm on the bore to explain the +10mm on length. Implicit in this are:

shorter stroke (=> new crank, rods, pistons)
bore spacing +2.0mm (=> new heads, block, sump, cams, cam covers, airbox, throttles, fuel rails etc, exhausts)

So even if everything else was carried over from CR-3 (and I am not suggesting that it was) CR-4 (more correctly LK) was definitely a distinct if short-lived engine family (arrived mid 2002 Jag, departed end 2003 Jordan) .

[Leo]

Many thanks, v_o_r!

As you seem to have 'inside information', any chance you can get your hands on list of those 'series' (upgrades)? The only reference to it (I can find) is this year's Cosworth press release...

[voice_of_reason]

Sorry Leo, no-can-do, a better sleuth than me will have to pick up the thread, or help me find an archive of SGP, Jaguar Racing, Arrows, Jordan and Minardi press releases. If anyone can help, I will try to work something out.


For what its worth, my (shaky) guess for the more recent ones would be:

Jaguar Racing:

2003 start of season: TJ2003 series 2 (series 1 being pre-season test spec)
2003 upgrades during season: series 3 (approx Barcelona), series 4 (approx Silverstone)


2004 start of season: TJ2004 series 7 (series 5 and 6 being inter-season development test specs)
2004 upgrades during season: TJ2004 series 8 (approx Indianapolis)


Red Bull Racing

2005 start of season: TJ2005 series 10 (series 9 being inter-season development test spec)
2005 upgrades during season: only a brave man would bet against series 11 coming next!

[L33]

Leo check your Private Messages

[Leo]

Originally posted by voice_of_reason
Sorry Leo, no-can-do, a better sleuth than me will have to pick up the thread, or help me find an archive of SGP, Jaguar Racing, Arrows, Jordan and Minardi press releases. If anyone can help, I will try to work something out.

Motorsport.com has a lot of old press releases.

Meanwhile I did some research on the 72 degree engine. These are my findings:

CK1999 (CR-1, Stewart)
-start of season: EV3
-from Belgium onwards: EV4 with high exhausts
Presumably there are two pre-season series
(source: 1999 Technical Analysis, Giorgio Piola)

CK2000 (CR-2, Jaguar)
No info found yet

CK2001 (CR-3, Jaguar)
-start of season: further development of CK2000
-New specification at German GP
-New specification at Japanese GP

CK2002 (CR-3, Jaguar, Arrows)
-start of season: conflicting reports. One report says further development of 2001 engine, other report says CR-3 "Suzuka 2001"-spec.

LK2002 (CR-4, Jaguar)
-first used in Canada (practice/qualifying only)
-used in race from Silverstone onwards
-New specification at US GP
(source: 2001, 2002 Technical Analysis in F1 Magazine by Peter Windsor & Giorgio Piola)

[Leo]

By the way, is the CR-3L for Minardi still developed by Cosworth? I read somewhere that Minardi did a similar thing as with the VJM (European) engine, commisioning Langford Performance Engineering for rebuilds and preparation.

[lustigson]

Interesting read, guys. I always try to keep up with chassis type numbers, such as MP4-20, FW27, etc. as well as engine types, i.e. FO110R (for 2005?) and P84B (Williams '05?).

Here's my list:

Ferrari F2004M 3000 053B
B·A·R 007 Honda RA005E
Renault R25 RS25
Williams FW27 BMW P84B
McLaren MP4-20 Mercedes-Benz FO110R
Sauber C24 Petronas 05A (being a Ferrari 3000 053B or 055?)
Red Bull RB1 (nee, Jaguar R6 ;-) ) Cosworth TJ2005-10
Toyota TF105 RVX-05
Jordan EJ15 Toyota RVX-05
Minardi PS04B Cosworth TJ2005-10

Any comment is welcome. :-)