2758 replies to this topic

[Henri Greuter]

Louis ("Sonny") Meyer Jr. was a master engine builder, innovator, chief mechanic and behind-the-scenes wizard at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway for more than five decades. He has passed away at age 89. I was fortunate to meet and talk with Mr. Meyer numerous times over the years. He will be missed and remembered fondly by the IndyCar community. Best wishes and condolences to his family.

From Robin Miller at Racer:

https://racer.com/20...died-at-age-89/

 

 

ah, that's a major loss.

 

Rest in peace "Sonny" and thanks for some good memories.

[ReWind]

In his own words (2007):

 

I have lived in Crawfordsville, Indiana since 1995. 
Born November 6, 1930, retired 2 years ago as a race engine supplier and mechanic. My hobby is building and flying radio-controlled model airplanes.
Worked for my father (ed.note: Louis Meyer, 3 time Indy winner) from 1946 to 1965 at Meyer and Drake Engineering, manufacturing the Offenhauser Racing Engine, West Los Angeles. Because of WWII we were the only production racing engine company in the world, producing 1 and 1/2 engines a day.
In 1965 my father, family and I moved to Indianapolis to start Louis Meyer Inc., building double overhead cam V-8s for Ford Motor Company.
Dale Drake got me started in hydroplane racing in 1949. Dale’s son, John, raced A outboard hydros.
My father, not wanting me to drive racecars, purchased a 48 cu.in. hydro from Rich Hallett. Dale Drake reworked an outboard prop with a cutback of 9 degrees to match the shaft angle. We went to Salton Sea and I broke Milford Scull’s straightaway record by 20 miles per hour.
Eddie Meyer, my father’s older brother, campaigned the Avengers, 135 cu.in. hydros. Eddie’s son, Bud, raced the 225 Div.I hydro “Firecracker”. Ted Jones built these boats. Eddie also maintained Robert Stack’s (the movie actor) hydro. Eddie won the Seattle Seafair race in his 135 hydro. 
The Lou-Kay was named after me and my sister Kay, who was the first female to operate the starter of an Indy car at the 500. Her driver was the first female driver, Janet Guthrie, in 1977.
After “Lou-Kay” I ran the {135}“Avenger” through 1957. Then I retired from boat racing.
I sold Louis Meyer Inc. to Patrick Racing in 1980, and then worked for Patrick as Manager of engine and gearbox departments. My son Butch also works for Patrick. He is now Technical Director of race control of the IRL Pro Series.
I left Patrick in 1986, took a years vacation traveling in a motor home and ended-up in Phoenix as engine manager with Granatelli Racing. Since Granatelli, I have worked for Menard Engine Group, and Blueprint Racing in Chicago as engine manager. Also Runyon Racing, building V-8 engines from Suzuki motorcycle parts, for Midget racing.
The auto racing associations keep changing over the years so I’ve been a member of: AAA-USAC-CART-IRL.
My father built engines and racecars in our back yard, six-car garage when he was racing. This is where I grew-up learning to be an engine and racecar builder.
When I lived in California I raced as a member of the SCSC (Southern California Speedboat Club).

 

[E1pix]

Thanks, Brian and Henri.

RIP.

[Bob Riebe]

We're at that age now Brian that all our childhood heroes are pushing "that time."

I for one am not looking forward to the constant stream of losses -- they've all been hard enough before.

I could never really get used to seeing fairly recent pictures of them and they were OLD, as Dad said on what was golden about the golden years -- NOT ONE DAMN THING.

[Michael Ferner]

Ah, very sad to hear of Sonny Meyer's passing. I met him very briefly in 2011, only had time for a very brief introduction. I was totally in awe, and he seemed to be such a nice person, I didn't want to bother him too much. What a great family!!

[lotuspoweredbyford]

Sad to report that 5-time Indianapolis 500 starter and all-around great guy John Martin has passed away at the age of 80.

[E1pix]

Oh No! I loved that guy!

I first met John at the Milwaukee Mile for an autograph at 14, when was in his venerable red McLaren, in 1974. Some later research had me realizing he'd been a sports car guy, knowing it was much rarer in those days to come to Indy cars from road racing.

I did some PR work for an Indy Lights team in 1991, and met with them at the old Performance Development & Racing shop in Denver. My clients had yet to arrive, but the trailer had. A guy I didn't know had his back to me and I called out Hello. He turned around and I immediately knew it was John Martin. Mind you, Denver was still a cowtown in those days, meaning certainly not a place one expected to meet an Indy car driver in!

John and I had time to kill, an hour or two anyway, and became immediate friends. I reminded him I'd gotten his autograph at the Mile 16 years earlier, and he just smiled while opening his briefcase. He pulled out a "safekeeping" envelope and carefully removed two autograph cards -- from 1974.

He said, "These are my last two autograph cards of the McLaren. I've saved them for years, for the right time, and want you to have one." He personalized and signed one and gave it to me.

He quit that team by the end of '91, and knowing both parties I saw it coming. John wasn't one to take the sort of BS I'd known he was getting.

In 2014, the Missus and I were at her first World of Outlaws race ever, at Skagit Speedway in Washington. I went into a small, rag-tag building that was a sort of memorial for a known Skagit supporter. On the wall were scores of memories, including a candid of John Martin in Nomex, and images of racing cars with "John Martin" on the side. It seemed clear John had moved up north, settled in the area, and had died. One kid in a Sprint car we befriended told me a lot about what John had been doing, and had a decal on the side to honor him. He hadn't known he'd ever been a 500 driver but wasn't surprised.

About two years later, I was reading a post here from a guy who'd just done the Brickyard vintage race in his Corvette -- and he said his teammate was... John Martin! I was absolutely dumbfounded, PMed the guy and gave my history with John, leaving my phone number and contact info.

No more than five minutes later my phone rings, and an excited voice says "Eric, this is John Martin -- and I am very much alive!!!" We talked for probably 90 minutes, both of us repeatedly laughing over the entire affair. I've intended to keep in touch, but...

So this is the second time I've lost John. I'd give anything to be able to call him right now.

RIP, Buddy. Thanks for being exactly as you were.

[DCapps]

Sad to report that 5-time Indianapolis 500 starter and all-around great guy John Martin has passed away at the age of 80.

 

I usually don't comment on these too often sad announcements, but Eric's comments on John Martin certainly rang true. While I only had a few brushes with John Martin, but he was exactly as suggested by Mike and Eric, just a really nice guy. You meet enough folks in racing and you soon begin to figure out just who really are the Nice Guys. John Martin easily fell into that category. Thanks, Eric, for confirming what many of us already knew about John. You are one lucky guy.

Edited by DCapps, 21 November 2019 - 19:09.

[E1pix]

Now I need a hankie.

Thank You, Don.

[SKL]

Robin Miller has a piece on him on racer.com  and a nice video that was done before he passed.

[E1pix]

^^^ >>> https://youtu.be/YC0CFK1yG1A

[Henri Greuter]

Sad to report that 5-time Indianapolis 500 starter and all-around great guy John Martin has passed away at the age of 80.

Oh no! Another of those nice men who were so nice and grateful but also helpful when they found out you knew them and their achievements!

I met him in 2016 high up in Turn One on a practice day, we were all alone in the box. Thus we had had a brief talk, introduced ourselves, (My acccent and funny English made him notice I was foreign so he got curious where I came from) but he truly opened up when he found out I knew him and his achievements and liked his era.
Lovely moment of the day, a nice memory about a nice man.

RIP John Martin, thanks for the memories.


Henri

[Richard Jenkins]

John wasn't one to take the sort of BS
In 2014, the Missus and I were at her first World of Outlaws race ever, at Skagit Speedway in Washington. I went into a small, rag-tag building that was a sort of memorial for a known Skagit supporter. On the wall were scores of memories, including a candid of John Martin in Nomex, and images of racing cars with "John Martin" on the side. It seemed clear John had moved up north, settled in the area, and had died.

About two years later, I was reading a post here from a guy who'd just done the Brickyard vintage race in his Corvette -- and he said his teammate was... John Martin! I was absolutely dumbfounded, PMed the guy and gave my history with John, leaving my phone number and contact info.

No more than five minutes later my phone rings, and an excited voice says "Eric, this is John Martin -- and I am very much alive!!!" We talked for probably 90 minutes, both of us repeatedly laughing over the entire affair. I've intended to keep in touch, but...

So this is the second time I've lost John. I'd give anything to be able to call him right now.

RIP, Buddy. Thanks for being exactly as you were.

Lovely tribute Eric to a true enthusiast.

The reason for people thinking he may have already passed away was because his son, of the same name, who also worked with him on the same team, died in tragic circumstances in 2004.

That John Sr. didnt change his personality as a result is testament to the man he was.

[E1pix]

Thanks Richard... I completely forgot about that!

Not sure why a Californian would be honored in northern Washington... so perhaps the mystery deepens. I think I'll call the track owner and clear this up once and for all...

Thanks Again.

[Henri Greuter]

To whom it may concern...

 

I hope the Mods won't come down oon me when I bring up the following info

 

Qualifying at Indy in the good old days was often an achievement in itself, and there are numerous stories about unforgettable and unbelievable events.

For these members over here who love Indy History and the Era of the Roadsters, maybe the following can be of interest.

 

My friend Greg Littleton has compiled a book about the Roadster years 1953-1963, focussing on the practice and qualifying during those years. A subject not being dealt with very extensively yet.  the book has the title "The race to make the race"

The book isn't cheap and I think you're have to be really into Indy history and/or the Roadsters to get hooked on it. But perhaps there are one or two fellow members over here who will be happy with reading this news and might be interested in this publication as well.

The book is not for sale (Yet) at the regular outlets.

 

Maybe the name Greg Littleton does ring a bell with some, he is indeed one of the co-writers on the book "The Roadsters of Indianapolis - Glory years ", a book in which he and the late Bill Enoch presented every Roadster ever present at the IMS.

 

Greg has a homepage for the book with more info about the book itself as well as how to obtain it. the link to it I have posted it below.

 

https://theracetomaketherace.com/

 

Apologies for breaking the thread and discussion and also to the mods if I broke the rules, that was definitely not intentional but I think that the largest numbers of forum members, who might be interested in thhis book and appreciate to read about its existance can be found looking into this thread.

[E1pix]

I love the concept!

I'll add that interest and profits would soar if the coverage extended to the last real days of the two-weekend qualifying format.

[Henri Greuter]

I love the concept!

I'll add that interest and profits would soar if the coverage extended to the last real days of the two-weekend qualifying format.

 

Greg is one of those people who loves Roadsters above all and he has co-written one of the I think ten essential books you need to have if you are into that period. But try to find one nowadays..... This new book of him is a kind of follow-up that became possible because of all research done for the first one.

I have yet to see my own copy but reading the info on the website makes me feel agree with you that he has indeed found a concept. Follow-ups of the concept would appeal indeed. But knowing Greg as I do, I am not sure if he wants to go into later years since his heart (and more)  is with the roadsters. But I am glad he gave us this one.

 

But I know what you feel. One example of a great story I did not find in the '80 Hungness was about Gary Bettenhausen making the field, ending up as slowest that year. The Practice & qualifying reports don't mention his attempt that brought him in the field.. So even the later years, as you suggest, could well `use ` a book of such a concept.

[Michael Ferner]

Lovely concept, yes. I always feel that coverage of the practice and qualifying periods is an essential part of the story of any race, which is why the "Grand Prix!" series of books by Mike Lang appeal so much to me, with their extensive and detailed descriptions of the days leading up to the Grands Prix proper. That, of course, is of even more importance when practice and qualifying takes up an entire month, as is the case with the Indy 500 - I have, in the past, already tried to do my best to include practice and qualifying reports within a couple of articles about past editions of the great race, and I think the one about the 1933 '500' should still be available within the archive of TNF. It's also good to know that Greg Littleton has already covered the "roadster era", which is about the least interesting for me, personally, so that I can save my efforts for the years which hold more appeal for me!

[Jim Thurman]

I love the concept!

I'll add that interest and profits would soar if the coverage extended to the last real days of the two-weekend qualifying format.

 

I concur, but this is specifically solely covering the era of Kurtis and Watson roadsters (and their off-shoots).

[E1pix]

Sorry guys, didn't mean to undermine the roadster project.

Maybe someone can run with "my" concept. Title: "Bumped." Could include everything from Rookie Test failures all the way to last-qualifier bump stories. But Man, what a lot of research!

Best to the author of the Roadster book, sounds great.

[B Squared]

Om this day, 55 years ago, Bobby Marshman lost his life from the injuries incurred in his Phoenix testing accident on November 27, 1964. Thinking of his sister Ronney, wife Janet, and son Rob. It is very rewarding that this year, due to Michael Argetsinger and Joe Freeman, that there is now a biography on Bob's all-too-brief, but very memorable career. Bobby is with me in thought everyday, as well as Michael.

[E1pix]

I knew a decade ago that'd we'd be mourning endless losses of the guys we so admired as kids.

Such is the case with Bill Simpson; wholly politically-incorrect, stubborn as they come, no BS tolerated, all coming right in the end -- from *the* guy racing really needed in those fatal times.


Thanks, Bill, for saving so many lives. So sorry for your being accused of the opposite; but Thanks for having the balls to fight your good name clear and keeping your "Impact" moving forward.

Thanks for the R30, the coolest hat a karting kid could ever want. Sorry my friends called it a "pig face," but know it's safe and revered in my vault.

Thanks for Nomex. Its rejecting fuel saved more injuries when my lifelong friend Eddie Miller crashed at Indy in '76, upside-down, neck broken, him soaked in gas with a smoker within eyeshot. I still shudder when thinking of the test his Nomex avoided that day.

Thanks also for signing a kid's program at the Milwaukee Mile in 1974, and making him feel like he belonged in your presence.

Thanks for bringing an off-roader to a higher plane, even if in a pink car. :-)


My hope is your legacy extends to telling it like it is -- no matter who is hearing it. We desperately need more like you, right now.

RIP, Hero.

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

What happened to the late 80s early 90s Indycar driver John Jones? He just dissapeared. And not only that, but he looked rather promising. But never got decent chance.

[Bob Riebe]

What happened to the late 80s early 90s Indycar driver John Jones? He just dissapeared. And not only that, but he looked rather promising. But never got decent chance.

http://www.ultimater...hp?uniqid=16226

 

He did well in IMSA , Formula 3000 but in Indy cars he was running CART in the days when there were top teams and the rest.

Probably might have had a chance a good drive at Indy in the IRL.

[Richard Jenkins]

Now works as a racing instructor - https://www.oldracin...iver/John_Jones

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

In the year 1989 they asked Little Al what makes him angry hear what he answered minute 18:05 onwards I was amazed. What are your thoughts? Knowing what happened later on in his life...

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

For those who are not familiar with what he became, here is the video from 2019 I is incredibly sad when you see your childhood hero fell so low. I just want to remember him the way he was in the late 80s, early 90s

[Michael Ferner]

Very sad, indeed, and somewhat eerie. I really don't like watching somebody caught with his pants down, but as sad as it is, this is a part of CART history…

[Michael Ferner]

Just watched the race, and that's vintage Lil'Al, too: he was a very good driver, but his excuse for hitting Mario was rather lame…

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

Heres another interesting interview. Emmo basically announced that he will wreck Little Al from the 500 minute 37:50 onwards

[E1pix]

I need to search for videos that remind us of what's good.

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=HnKGYwgLdpM

Edited by E1pix, 31 March 2020 - 15:58.

[HistoryFan]

Very sad. There are a lot of months where there is now word about Buddy Lazier and Lazier Partners Racing.

[JacnGille]

Sad news

[E1pix]

Thanks for your note letting me know about Bob Lazier, Jacngille. I hope to compose a fitting tribute soon.

For now, Bob was one of a kind, and a huge influence on our lives. We are gutted.

[SKL]

I've always like Junior but he has definitely has had his demons...   saw a recent video of him talking to high school students about addiction, etc.   He's also trying to quit smoking which is ironic as his ex-wife Shelley just died of COPD as she was also a smoker.   Ran into him at PHX a couple years ago in the pits-  very approachable.

 

I'll never forget the first time I saw him race at Road America in the Can-Am series  (which at the time was dying  a slow death)  and he looked about 12 years old!

 

Having never been a drinker or smoker I can't really understand the attraction but I hope he can conquer  it...

[Rob Ryder]

 Yes please Brian

[Michael Ferner]

Yes, by all means do it!

[JacnGille]

please Please PLEASE

[Henri Greuter]

Much appreciated if you would do so Brian.

[Michael Ferner]

Isn't that actually a Phoenix chassis? The team switched around quite a bit between Wildcat, Phoenix and Penske chassis that year!!

[Henri Greuter]

Isn't that actually a Phoenix chassis? The team switched around quite a bit between Wildcat, Phoenix and Penske chassis that year!!

I think we can exclude this to be a Penske.

[Michael Ferner]

Come to think of it, they even had two different, new Wildcat designs at their disposal! I think the one crashed by Johncock was pretty much a copy of this Phoenix, while the one eventually driven by Bagley was very different. None of them worked very well, and in the end Johncock drove the old Penske into fourth place - immediately behind Gary B. in a five-year-old Wildcat the team had disposed of several years before!!

[Henri Greuter]

The aforementioned Tom Bagley Patrick - Penske PC6. I have photos of the Armstrong cars too; I'll get to those at a later date.

 

Toughie.   Bagley went into a Wildcat, Johncock wrecked a car and went into a PC6. Could that have been this PC6, repaintred and renumbered.

[racinggeek]

The original Bagley photo is definitely the Phoenix. Compare it visually to the Phoenixes Sneva occasionally raced in 1980 and Cogan took to fourth place at Indy in '81. Johncock and Sneva were pretty quick on the mile ovals in the Phoenixes in 1980: Gordy dominated Milwaukee until a brush while lapping a backmarker dinged the car, and I believe Sneva's season-closing win at Phoenix was in the Phoenix. The Phoenixes did seem to crash a lot, but I don't know if it was a design/construction flaw in the stresses put on an IndyCar.

[Michael Ferner]

"Chinese Eagle" Syndrome - looks like one of DSG's finest, but is actually a Kingfish, built by Grant King in Oregon.

[Michael Ferner]

I never quite understood why VPJ always put that roll over bar so far back on the car. To me it looks far less effective than a regular hoop, and it can't have helped aerodynamics much!

[Richard Jenkins]

Bill Whittington started 27th and placed 30th after crashing early in the 1980 "500". The Sun Systems Parnelli was Cosworth powered.



Edit, the photos I've gotten are primarily 1980 through 85. They are all taken at the Speedway. From cars on track in practice and race to personalities, pits, garages, drivers etc. Let me know if there's anything you are looking for in particular and I will do my best.

I will go through my list of who I need and send you a PM, thanks for this and all you do

[Henri Greuter]

Bill Whittington started 27th and placed 30th after crashing early in the 1980 "500". The Sun Systems Parnelli was Cosworth powered.



Edit, the photos I've gotten are primarily 1980 through 85. They are all taken at the Speedway. From cars on track in practice and race to personalities, pits, garages, drivers etc. Let me know if there's anything you are looking for in particular and I will do my best.

 

 

Brian,

 

I would love to see anything you have of the 1983 #29 Rattlesnake-Cosworth driven by Michael Chandler. One of the obscure fullbodied cars like the Interscope and the 1982 Longhorn. Many thanks in advance for everything you're doing for us,

[Henri Greuter]

I never quite understood why VPJ always put that roll over bar so far back on the car. To me it looks far less effective than a regular hoop, and it can't have helped aerodynamics much!

I would not be at all surprised if it had something to do with teh construction of the monocoque. To me it looks as if the rollhoop is also at the back-end of the monocoque, perhaps the design of the coque and support of the rollhoop combined have something to do with that. Look closely and you can see that the engine cover and cocpit cowling are split just behind the rolhoop.

[B Squared]

Two shots of Greg Leffler in the cockpit of the Lola which he drove to 10th place in the 1980 Indy 500. A very nice and humble man; my brother and I met Greg a few months ago when we were meeting at the home of a mutual friend that had passed away. Greg was picking up hot rod components, while we were there to assess an IRL-era G-Force and pick up an older Soap Box Derby winning car.