589 replies to this topic

[bira]

I have been awake for a few good days straight, and was ready to collapse yesterday morning only to be confounded with major bugs issues on the new website. By about 4pm, my body gave me a blue screen of death.

So now I'm back up, and I want to respond to all your questions / criticism / comments, and I have a LOT to say that I think will make you feel MUCH better.

But I really can't sit through reading the entire thread(s) on the Autosport-Atlas topic, and I fear that if I start reading it now and respond to every single post, I will be spending more time on that, than on actually fixing problems and doing news from Malaysia.

Therefore, my request is simple:

1) In very plain and succinct format, write your questions and criticism here.

2) Please bring up only ONE point at a time (if you have more than one point to raise, post more than once).

3) Please verify that your point has not been raised already by others in THIS thread

I will respond to each and every post here, and in detail.

Don't hold back, don't worry about offending me or anyone else. But at the same time, help me to be helpful and be clear and concise.

So who goes first?


NOTE: if you don't have a question but want to read the answers nontheless, you will find this link more useful (it displays only my posts in this thread. And I've included in every answer, the original question)

[Rogue]

I understand and accept that we would not previously have had access to full exclusives and therefore are not missing out on anything with the new deal, but rather gaining a little extra here and there, however...

Question - what if I said that I would be happy to pay more to be able to read the full Autosport magazine articles, from the minute they are released on the news stands, however? I remember when AtlasF1 went subscription - I stopped buying Autosport magazine because I now had an immediate source. I'd like to expand that now, but the print version is useless half way around the world, it just takes too long to get here, even by air mail.

New website is great!

Cheers,

Replied

[barnardferrari]

The old Atlas F1 site had dates next to the current news headlines on the main page. Can we get that on the new Autosport-Atlas site? Thanks.

Replied.

[bira]

Originally posted by Rogue
I understand and accept that we would not previously have had access to full exclusives and therefore are not missing out on anything with the new deal, but rather gaining a little extra here and there, however...

Question - what if I said that I would be happy to pay more to be able to read the full Autosport magazine articles, from the minute they are released on the news stands, however? I remember when AtlasF1 went subscription - I stopped buying Autosport magazine because I now had an immediate source. I'd like to expand that now, but the print version is useless half way around the world, it just takes too long to get here, even by air mail.

New website is great!

Cheers,

Rogue,

It's a point worth exploring. I am not in charge of Autosport Magazine, but I can bring up that point with those who are. I know that there had been a way to read the magazine online ("First View") for those who subscribed to it, but I am not entirely sure that scheme proved successful or financially worthy. So I'm not sure what future it holds. Like I said, though, I will bring that point up with the relevant people.

Thanks.

[bira]

Originally posted by barnardferrari
The old Atlas F1 site had dates next to the current news headlines on the main page. Can we get that on the new Autosport-Atlas site? Thanks.

Yes. I've written that down on my post-launch To Do list.

[mach4]

On Firefox any of the pages that have the Haymarket ads load a lot slower, the actual content is not loaded until after the ads. This does not happen on IE. I've solved the problem by using adblock but I suggest the html code is tweaked so that other users dont have to go through this.

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[mach4]

I'm disappointed the new site is not wider. I remember when the new layout came up for AtlasF1 and bira made great arguments against people who complained it was too wide. I suppose this was an autosport imposition. If that is the case my suggestion would be to move the "Subscriptions", "Autosport Services", and "Tools" sections. This would give more space to actual content and it's obvious these are not often used by anyone. They should be under a general "Tools and Settings" area or something.

Replied.

[Ruckus]

Hopefully a quick one for you Bira, I appreciate that you're snowed under.

What is the schedule for bringing the newsletter back to life? My mailbox feels a little empty without it, and it's particularly useful during race weekends. Can you also confirm that the weekly journal will still be available via e-mail also?

Down the track, can we expect to be offered the option of expanded motor sport coverage via the newsletter and journal, or will these continue on largely as they were in the 'old' Atlas days?

Replied

[mach4]

At a glance section is greatly missed. I don't know why the Autosport version of the tracks profiles remained, the AtlasF1 version was better even if it just used FIA (or Reuters?) images for track maps.

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[bira]

Originally posted by mach4
On Firefox any of the pages that have the Haymarket ads load a lot slower, the actual content is not loaded until after the ads. This does not happen on IE. I've solved the problem by using adblock but I suggest the html code is tweaked so that other users dont have to go through this.

I've written it down and will inquire about this issue. I am not entirely thrilled about the non MSIE compatibility of various things, as most of the Atlas F1 editors actually prefer to use Firefox too. So we have a vested interest in solving this if only for selfish reasons

So yes, Firefox compatibility and the above matter will be looked into and solved as soon as possible.

[mach4]

This is probably already planned but it would be nice if the forums are better integrated. Having the latest topics show up on the home page or at least the F1 page would make it feel more like a community in my opinion.

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[bira]

Originally posted by mach4
I'm disappointed the new site is not wider. I remember when the new layout came up for AtlasF1 and bira made great arguments against people who complained it was too wide. I suppose this was an autosport imposition. If that is the case my suggestion would be to move the "Subscriptions", "Autosport Services", and "Tools" sections. This would give more space to actual content and it's obvious these are not often used by anyone. They should be under a general "Tools and Settings" area or something.

I agree that there is too much scrolling and the content is too narrow on the frontpage. I'm on a widescreen laptop - so I have to scroll even more, which bugs the hell out of me (and I was the one who designed it!!!)

That said, let's be clear on where the problem lies and what needs fixing exactly.

The actual content pages (articles, reports, etc) have not changed - the Atlas F1 News, The Daily Grapevine and the weekly Journal were never more than 585 in the content itself. Reading an article that spans over more than 585 pixels is quite bad for the eyes and uncomfortable. So the actual content has not changed in layout at all.

Furthermore, the index pages on the Atlas F1 News and The Daily Grapevine were too not dissimilar in their width to what it is now. Look at http://www.atlasf1.c.../mar/index.html as an example - and this is even wider than the main News index was.

So it all boils down to the HOMEPAGE of Autosport-Atlas, and the GALLERY index.

In both cases, I will review the design and will make changes. Like I said, I don't find it very practical myself - and it's entirely my fault. I designed these pages and only later put the content in. I wanted to achieve consistency across the website (something Atlas F1 was VASTLY lacking, let's be honest here!) but I went too radical - because now practicality and functionality in some cases were compromised.

Nothing that can't be reviewed, improved, and fixed, though.

Please remember: this is a new product, and as such it's only the beginning. Atlas F1 had 10 years of tweaking, redesigning, and redefining before we were anywhere close to something we liked - and even that tended to change every year or so.

Autosport-Atlas is about 30 hours old; talk to me again in 30 days ;)

Anyway, back to the point of width and layout - let me work on that; we will improve it real soon.

[bira]

Originally posted by Ruckus
Hopefully a quick one for you Bira, I appreciate that you're snowed under.

What is the schedule for bringing the newsletter back to life? My mailbox feels a little empty without it, and it's particularly useful during race weekends. Can you also confirm that the weekly journal will still be available via e-mail also?

Down the track, can we expect to be offered the option of expanded motor sport coverage via the newsletter and journal, or will these continue on largely as they were in the 'old' Atlas days?

The Newsletter is undergoing a rebuilding. The Newsletter script is by now 4 years old, and while it was functioning quite nicely (astonishing, given how badly I wrote the code back then, when I was a novice programmer) - when I came about converting it to the new db, I discovered how horrible it is. It's like not understanding your own hand writing

Anyway, I had ambitious plans to have it back up by later today, but to be honest I don't see me doing any programming on new stuff before the existing stuff gets fixed.

So I'd say give it a few days - by mid next week probably - and the Newsletter service will be back, and yes - with more user-selected content options. And yes, the Journal will be included too.

[bira]

Originally posted by mach4
At a glance section is greatly missed. I don't know why the Autosport version of the tracks profiles remained, the AtlasF1 version was better even if it just used FIA (or Reuters?) images for track maps.

I'm going to do the Season at a Glance soon.

We have something really cool that we're going to add to the website in the next few days. It dwarfs the existing Atlas F1 or the Autosport track guide significantly...

[bira]

Originally posted by mach4
This is probably already planned but it would be nice if the forums are better integrated. Having the latest topics show up on the home page or at least the F1 page would make it feel more like a community in my opinion.

OK, I am reluctant to do this, to be honest.

I made the decision to distance the BB from the content website, for a host of reasons:

1) I know first hand that people tend to confuse the two services as one. I want it clear they are completely separate and remain separate;

2) I remember all too well how much worry and fear there was here, when the merge was announced, that Haymarket now have their hands on this BB and all that ****.

So if both "I" as a service provider and "you" as a client feel the separation is important and good, then integrating the forums into the main site seems counter productive.

We used to get emails on Atlas F1 from people reacting or complaining or commenting to things they saw published on Atlas F1, and I'd scratch my head trying to figure out where on earth we had that. It would be content from the BB which passer by had come across by visiting the Atlas F1 Homepage and seeing a "headline" on it - which was actually a BB thread.

So I was never too thrilled about this mix-up to begin with and frankly, I am not too thrilled about bringing it back to our fold.

[mach4]

It's a very small issue but I've noticed that on some pages you use square bullets next to news items http://www.autosport...f1homepage.aspx , while others have rounded ones http://www.autosport...m/Newshome.aspx , or none http://www.autosport...eshome.aspx?s=5

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[xflow7]

Bira, outstanding job so far.

Very minor quibble. I love the 2005 link in the menubar that brings up the page with boxes containing links for schedules/results for all the different series. Would it be possible to have the Sportscars box split into, say, boxes for FIA GT, ALMS, ELMS (similar to how there are separate entries for BTCC and WTCC)? I realize some may find this makes the page too busy. If that's a concern, could there at least be links within the Sportscars box to schedules/results for the other Sportscar series besides FIAGT? One stop shopping, if you will?

Thanks, Dave

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[mark f1]

Hi Bira,

'My Atlas' is not being updated with the latest information until quite a bit later. eg.latest newsletter, news items, grapevine stories.

I love My Atlas and it was all I ever used and I hope that this can be fixed, as I'm currently having to use the main site to get the latest info.

Any chance to offer news for other categories into 'My Atlas' as well?

Cheers
Mark

Replied

[bira]

Originally posted by mach4
It's a very small issue but I've noticed that on some pages you use square bullets next to news items http://www.autosport...f1homepage.aspx , while others have rounded ones http://www.autosport...m/Newshome.aspx , or none http://www.autosport...eshome.aspx?s=5

Just an attempt to break the mould ;)

We should be able to solidify things like that through time, though. I wouldn't worry about that.

[bira]

Originally posted by xflow7
Bira, outstanding job so far.

Very minor quibble. I love the 2005 link in the menubar that brings up the page with boxes containing links for schedules/results for all the different series. Would it be possible to have the Sportscars box split into, say, boxes for FIA GT, ALMS, ELMS (similar to how there are separate entries for BTCC and WTCC)? I realize some may find this makes the page too busy. If that's a concern, could there at least be links within the Sportscars box to schedules/results for the other Sportscar series besides FIAGT? One stop shopping, if you will?

Thanks, Dave

Valid point. I will look into why it's not already done. Thanks.

[bira]

Originally posted by mark f1
Hi Bira,

'My Atlas' is not being updated with the latest information until quite a bit later. eg.latest newsletter, news items, grapevine stories.

I love My Atlas and it was all I ever used and I hope that this can be fixed, as I'm currently having to use the main site to get the latest info.

Any chance to offer news for other categories into 'My Atlas' as well?

Cheers
Mark

Bugs we're working on.

One of the big problems we faced was that the entire Atlas F1 architecture was based on a completely different hardware/software than the Autosport.com one. Merging the two together technically has been extremely difficult - and as you can witness, extremely buggy. :

We would have probably needed a good 6 months to a year to redo everything into a homogeneous architecture. Instead, we preferred to do it "brick by brick" and impose interim solutions in the mean time.

So My Atlas, for example, continues to run on the old Atlas F1 system - while Autosport-Atlas runs on a brand new system. Other than an entire ocean separating the two, there's also an entire difference in DB structure that separates them.

Anyway, the problem you mention should be fixed today - and My Atlas as a whole will be significantly upgraded (and I promise you not downgraded! ) very soon.

[xflow7]

Another minor one:

I, personally, preferred the Atlas Photo Gallery behavior where clicking on the thumbnails brought the pic up in a pop-up window. Since I find I often look rapidly through a number of pics, it was faster to just close the pop-up each time than it is to have to wait for the main page to reload before choosing another pic.

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[xflow7]

Taking you at your word that you won't be offended and making one final suggestion :

Having links to the other recent news items appear below the text on a news content page was much more useful than having only "Next", "Last", and "Index".

Shutting up now.

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[bira]

Originally posted by xflow7
Another minor one:

I, personally, preferred the Atlas Photo Gallery behavior where clicking on the thumbnails brought the pic up in a pop-up window. Since I find I often look rapidly through a number of pics, it was faster to just close the pop-up each time than it is to have to wait for the main page to reload before choosing another pic.

There seem to be a divided view about this.

I switched to non-popup because people complained they couldn't right-click and open several pics at a time. Now it seems that popups are missed by others.

My solution is going to be user selection: there will be a link "Browse Gallery with Popup Windows" - and a cookie will remember your selection for the next time you visit too.

So that's on my To Do list.

[riffola]

One of the weather icon is broken.

Replied (and fixed)

[bira]

Originally posted by xflow7
Taking you at your word that you won't be offended and making one final suggestion :

Having links to the other recent news items appear below the text on a news content page was much more useful than having only "Next", "Last", and "Index".

Shutting up now.

There are some changes to be done to the bottom of the news reports. Actually, the "latest headlines" wasn't on my list - but it's not a bad idea to see if I can add it. Thanks.

[riffola]

For subscribers, when logged in, will you consider removing the ads, especially ones that are trying to sell subscription to the site. Such as "Buy now and get free access to Autosport-Atlas!"

Replied

[JForce]

I think the point about the print Autosport versus A-A.com is worth making. I've never read a print copy of Autosport, but I would think there was value in making the print magazine available online...in fact I would think that's why people subscribed to Autosport.com in the first place? I can't fathom why there would be a distinction between the two. So whilst I accept that the whole "pick up this weeks Autosport for the whole story" thing is not as bad as it sounds, I would have thought that once Autosport and Atlas merged, I would have access to MORE content. Which I do, don't get me wrong. But To have that new content be only half content seems a bit...well, cheap maybe?

[bira]

Originally posted by riffola
One of the weather icon is broken.

It's not something we control. It looks like Quikcast (the provider of the weather feed) doesn't know yet what the weather condition will be in Kuala Lumpur on the 5th day - you can see it says "NA". So the icon, which is linked to it, can't show up.

In any event, it's "self fixing" so to speak, in that we just have to wait for them (Quikcast) to refresh their own data.

[mika911]

Hi Bira,

Thanks for answering all these great questions.

The WAP site has not been updated since the switch. Will this be back someday? I find it very convenient, when I'm away from home. I always appreciated you making it.

Thanks.

Replied

[JForce]

As I use MyAtlas I didn't find it an issue, but the flashing ads on the homepage seem to be universally hated.

[riffola]

Originally posted by bira


It's not something we control. It looks like Quikcast (the provider of the weather feed) doesn't know yet what the weather condition will be in Kuala Lumpur on the 5th day - you can see it says "NA". So the icon, which is linked to it, can't show up.

In any event, it's "self fixing" so to speak, in that we just have to wait for them (Quikcast) to refresh their own data.

You could just have a lil check that looks to see if there is no image available, if so just display na.gif or something, just a suggestion.
I do something similar with mine
http://riffola.com/w...ages/128/na.png

[JForce]

You said that MyAtlas was working now with all regular content. Mine isn't, as it's missing some news and grapevine headlines. You said you'd answered the question, but I can't find it so I'm sorry to post this again.

[mach4]

Originally posted by JForce
You said that MyAtlas was working now with all regular content. Mine isn't, as it's missing some news and grapevine headlines. You said you'd answered the question, but I can't find it so I'm sorry to post this again.

Please re-read this thread. Post #21 to be specific.

[Draco]

From my post in the other (rant) thread:

Originally posted by Draco
... if www.atlasf1.com were redirected to the F1 page (http://www.autosport...f1homepage.aspx) instead of to the Autosport-Atlas home page, I think many of the negative comments (non-F1 content, having to scroll to see news headlines, the "missing" journal, correspondents' photos, and so on) would be avoided.

(Congratulations, btw! )

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[Draco]

A request when redesigning the front page...

Please remember that screen resolution statistics can be misleading as not everybody runs their browsers maximised. For example, while none of my machines are less than 1280x1024 and my two main machines are actually both dual monitor 1600x1200, I never have my browser windows (or most other applications' windows, for that matter) wider than 800 pixels. I am usually actively working in at least half a dozen applications concurrently, and want to see as many of them as possible simultaneously. I did not like the most recent AtlasF1 home page for that reason, although I know that serious efforts were made to keep it as functional as possible.

If the layout adapted to the browser window's width that would be ideal.

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[JForce]

Originally posted by mach4
Please re-read this thread. Post #21 to be specific.

ah there it is. Bira mentioned in the other thread that it was fixed. I guess they're still working on it. Thanks

[bira]

Originally posted by riffola
For subscribers, when logged in, will you consider removing the ads, especially ones that are trying to sell subscription to the site. Such as "Buy now and get free access to Autosport-Atlas!"

Let's separate this into three issues:

1) The existence of ads at all;
2) The abundence of animated/flashy ads.
3) The Autosport Magazine ad;


With regards to point 1:

I think people are grossly exaggerating the correlation between subscription and advertisements. You pay for a newspaper or a magazine in print, and that comes with ads too. Where does it say that when you pay for a publication, it shouldn't have ads?!?

Let this be clear: Autosport-Atlas.com costs a lot of money to produce and is not a profitable business at the moment. So we will not turn down the ability to cover our costs from advertisements alltogether.

Nevertheless, there are NO popup ads and there are NO ads AT ALLl on the "closed" pages (i.e. pages that require a paid subscription to access them).


With regards to point 2:

The Atlas F1 Index pages always carried ads, although we didn't have as many. This wasn't because we refused to have ads - it was simply because no one wanted to advertise on Atlas F1, or we were bad salesmen (probably the latter ;)).

What I do think, though (but cannot promise) is that there can and should be less ads on a page, especially once a subscriber logged in. Kevin (my publisher) and I were talking about this yesterday and it's a point we are willing to explore and see if there's a way to improve it.

I also think there are too many animated ads. It's not that there are ads there, it's not that there are 6 ads - they're all small and nicely aligned - it's the fact that most of them are animated which creates a complete sense of chaos. I don't think it's a very good thing.

So this is definitely an issue we are exploring and looking at how we can optimise it and find a balance between maintaining the advertising opportunity a website offers, while not grossly overdoing it to a point of alienation.

Finally, with regards to point 3:

Imagine that on every FORIX page there would have been a small and NON ANIMATED image of Atlas F1 with the line "subscribe to Atlas F1 and get free access to FORIX!" That would have made perfect sense, no? After all, we'd like people to subscribe to Atlas F1 - the "bigger" and more money-making package.

Likewise, Autosport Magazine subscribers pay much, much more than Autosport-Atlas.com subscribers; and the Magazine subscribers get free access to Autosport-Atlas.com. So as a company, it is in our interest and benefit too that subscribers will go for the "bigger" package.

I don't find this Magazine marketing spot obtrusive at all, and I completely fail to accept any form of criticism on that issue. Sorry.

[bira]

Originally posted by mika911
Hi Bira,

Thanks for answering all these great questions.

The WAP site has not been updated since the switch. Will this be back someday? I find it very convenient, when I'm away from home. I always appreciated you making it.

Thanks.

WAP site will be relaunched as wap.autosport-atlas.com some time next week.

[riffola]

Thanks for taking the time to respond bira, you made some good points. I think if you just replace them with non animated or at least non hyper flashy ads, it will be ok.

[Stl_Don]

Originally posted by bira


There seem to be a divided view about this.

I switched to non-popup because people complained they couldn't right-click and open several pics at a time. Now it seems that popups are missed by others.

My solution is going to be user selection: there will be a link "Browse Gallery with Popup Windows" - and a cookie will remember your selection for the next time you visit too.

So that's on my To Do list.

I sure would be nice to have the buttons available on the 2x and 3x views.

Thanks for your hard work.
Don

Replied

[bern@rd]

There are numerous examples of good advertisement on the web. A site with ads doesn't necessarily have to look like a disco.

EDIT: Whoa! ZOMG, the unecessary gaymarket ads from the right have disappeared. The frontpage looks calm now! Thanks, Bira.

DOUBLE-EDIT: Oh, bugger. It was just the journal page. Passed through the frontpage and got molested by haymarket. I feel dirty. Are all those ads really needed, I mean, one of them is even advertising the first view section, which is free for autosport subscribers, I think.

[bira]

Originally posted by Draco
From my post in the other (rant) thread:

Originally posted by Draco
... if www.atlasf1.com were redirected to the F1 page (http://www.autosport...f1homepage.aspx) instead of to the Autosport-Atlas home page, I think many of the negative comments (non-F1 content, having to scroll to see news headlines, the "missing" journal, correspondents' photos, and so on) would be avoided.

(Congratulations, btw! )

It was an option we considered, but in the end decided against it. I think the Atlas F1 URL has by now gained a lot of exposure and has a good placing on search engines. For as long as that is the case - and autosport-atlas.com is not - then we should use it to advance our new website as much as possible. This isn't just an issue of accomodating a few BTCC haters.

[bira]

Originally posted by Draco
A request when redesigning the front page...

Please remember that screen resolution statistics can be misleading as not everybody runs their browsers maximised. For example, while none of my machines are less than 1280x1024 and my two main machines are actually both dual monitor 1600x1200, I never have my browser windows (or most other applications' windows, for that matter) wider than 800 pixels. I am usually actively working in at least half a dozen applications concurrently, and want to see as many of them as possible simultaneously. I did not like the most recent AtlasF1 home page for that reason, although I know that serious efforts were made to keep it as functional as possible.

If the layout adapted to the browser window's width that would be ideal.

Point well taken, and I certainly bear it in mind.

[bira]

Originally posted by Stl_Don


I sure would be nice to have the buttons available on the 2x and 3x views.

Thanks for your hard work.
Don

Don't think it will happen. These images are by nature very big - I'm on a widescreen 1280 and I can barely get away with opening 2x on this screen (heck, if it's a vertical picture then not even that). If I need to add additional "content" such as you suggest, it will make it even bigger.

So no, don't plan to do that I'm afraid.

[riffola]

Extremely minor cosmetic adjustment, for Grapevine, the date is very close the black vertical line
http://www.autosport...nehomepage.aspx on say the F1 news page it has a margin on the left, but not the case here, so the M in Mar almost touches the black line.

Replied

[JForce]

Originally posted by bira
Likewise, Autosport Magazine subscribers pay much, much more than Autosport-Atlas.com subscribers; and the Magazine subscribers get free access to Autosport-Atlas.com. So as a company, it is in our interest and benefit too that subscribers will go for the "bigger" package.

I don't find this Magazine marketing spot obtrusive at all, and I completely fail to accept any form of criticism on that issue. Sorry.

I accept this, but at the same time it does seem odd that I am presented with these ads. I don't even think I could subscribe to the print magazine even if I wanted to. And I have no intention to. In fact if you were to ask all the subscribers to the online version if they planned to subscribe to the print one I'd be surprised if more than 5% said yes. So I don't see the benefit of showing me that ad. But I guess there's no real way around it. :

Just on that, and these may be confidential numbers, but do you have any info on numbers of subscribers of print versus combined AutosportOnline and Atlas subscribers? I would have thought making an online mag would be cheaper than a print one, and yet in your particular market/field the net is perfect so surely you wouldn't lose out?

Maybe not something you can answer though....Maybe Kevin?

Replied

[bira]

Originally posted by riffola
Extremely minor cosmetic adjustment, for Grapevine, the date is very close the black vertical line
http://www.autosport...nehomepage.aspx on say the F1 news page it has a margin on the left, but not the case here, so the M in Mar almost touches the black line.

I am assuming you are talking about display in Firefox? If yes, I've already answered it in one of my first posts here. If not, please explain?

[riffola]

Originally posted by bira


I am assuming you are talking about display in Firefox? If yes, I've already answered it in one of my first posts here. If not, please explain?

Oops, yeah I meant in Firefox, sorry I wasn't paying better attention.

Thanks for the minor tweaks you've done so far bira! It is very reassuring to see that you are still hands on with the site, it sounds odd but it's better to see it in practice.

[bira]

Originally posted by JForce


I accept this, but at the same time it does seem odd that I am presented with these ads. I don't even think I could subscribe to the print magazine even if I wanted to. And I have no intention to. In fact if you were to ask all the subscribers to the online version if they planned to subscribe to the print one I'd be surprised if more than 5% said yes. So I don't see the benefit of showing me that ad. But I guess there's no real way around it. :

Just on that, and these may be confidential numbers, but do you have any info on numbers of subscribers of print versus combined AutosportOnline and Atlas subscribers? I would have thought making an online mag would be cheaper than a print one, and yet in your particular market/field the net is perfect so surely you wouldn't lose out?

Maybe not something you can answer though....Maybe Kevin?

I'll say this much: Autosport Magazine is a profitable business with many more subscribers than Autosport-Atlas.com (or any other website).

At the moment - and I don't expect this trend to change for a few more years - print publications such as Autosport Magazine are more financially successful than websites such as Autosport-Atlas.com

And to a large extent, I would add that Autosport Magazine is just like any advertisers, albeit being one with a vested interest in the website. So let's give them a little more respect as our backers, shall we?

What astonishes me the most, is that you are all Formula One fans. JForce, have you ever complained to a team in F1 for being sponsored or carrying car livery of a sponsor that offers products not available in New Zealand?

I said it before and I will say it again: where it comes to the "Autosport Magazine" promotion in an extremely unobtrusive location and format, I will make no apologies and accept no criticism. You are being anti just for the sake of being anti on this one.