32 replies to this topic

[Allen Brown]

I have been given permission to use a fantastic set of pictures taken by Bill Oursler. I have been able to identify most but I'm not too sure about a group taken in 1973. It looks like some are at Indy but it others appear to have been taken later in the season.

Can anyone identify the tracks? Or the helmets? Or the graffiti?


Picture 12. 1972 or 1973. The Eagle 72 of Sam Posey.


Picture 32. I can tell you it's a 1972 model Eagle - not a 1973 or a 1974 - and we can see it's a STP car, but what's it doing with #61 on it? Is this Indy in 1973 now?


Picture 33. 1973 again? This would be the #24 Steve Krisiloff Kingfish 73, a copy of the Eagle 72.


Picture 34. 1973? AJ Foyt's new Riley-designed Coyote 73.


Picture 35. 1973. Gordon Johncock's Indy-winning #20 STP Double Oil Filter Eagle 72. Or is it? That looks more like a 73/74 Eagle to me. Is this later in 1973 or early in 1974?


Picture 36. 1973. Bobby Unser's subtely different 1973 model #8 Olsonite Eagle 73 with the rakish roll hoop but still two fuel gismos.


Picture 38. This is the #55 Cobre Firestone Eagle but it didn't appear until Ontario 1973. Is this late 1973 with Lee Kunzman? Or Indy 1974 and Jerry Grant? The car appears to be a 73 model Eagle so maybe Bob Fletcher and Pat Patrick bought 1973 Eagles later on in the 1973 season.


Picture 39. Definitely 1973. McCluskey in the #3 Hopkins-owned McLaren M16A.


Picture 40. 1973. Mario Andretti and the #11 Viceroy Parnelli VPJ2.


Picture 47. 1973. Bobby Unser's 1973 model #8 Olsonite Eagle 73.


Picture 48. 1973. The #16 Ayr-Way Lloyds Eagle 72 owned by Lindsey Hopkins but is it Lee Kunzman early in the season or Bentley Warren later in 1973?


Picture 49. Probably 1973 and definitely the Patrick Racing #40 STP Oil Treatment Eagle 72 but this is the yellow helmet of Wally Dallenbach so it must be later in the season. Evidently not Swede Savage in the ill-fated Eagle 72 at the Speedway.


Picture 50. Late 1973? As for Picture 035, this looks like a 1973 model Eagle, not the 1972 cars that I thought Patrick Racing had bought. The helmet appears to be Johncock's but the livery doesn't match the race car at Indy and both the nose vent and the roll hoop of this car indicate a 1973 model, not the 1973 model he raced at Indy. Is this later in 1973?


Picture 51. 1973. Bobby Unser's 1973 model #8 Olsonite Eagle 73.


Picture 53. 1973. Mario Andretti and the #11 Viceroy Parnelli VPJ2. Who's Sue Miele?


Picture 54. 1973. Lee Kunzman and the #16 Ayr-Way Lloyds Eagle 72 again.


Picture 55. Late 1973? The #55 Cobre Firestone Eagle 72 but it didn't appear until Ontario 1973. Is this late 1973? Or Indy 1974?


Picture 57. An intruiging one. Al Loquasto's #86 McLaren M16 but which Loquasto McLaren? He had wrecked the Penske M16B in qualifying at Indy in 1973 so what was his #86 McLaren later that year and at Indy in 1974?


Picture 58. 1973? The #34 Norris Industries Eagle 72 of Champ Carr Enterprises as driven by Sam Posey at Indy (where he was bumped) and Ontario and by Jim McElreath elsewhere during 1973. Anyone recognise the helmet?


Picture 59. 1973. Johnny Rutherford's #7 Gulf-sponsored 'works' McLaren M16C.


Picture 60. 1973. Joe Leonard in his #1 Samsonite 'works' Parnelli VPJ2.


Picture 61. 1973. Andretti and the #11 Viceroy Parnelli VPJ2 again.


Picture 62. 1973. McCluskey in the #3 Hopkins-owned McLaren M16A again.


Picture 65. 1973. Bobby Unser again in the #8 Olsonite Eagle 73.


Picture 66. 1973. Leonard in his #1 Samsonite Parnelli VPJ2 again.


Picture 79. 1973. Joe Leonard in a Parnelli VPJ2


Picture 80. AJ Foyt in the #14 Gilmore Riley-designed Coyote but when? The livery doesn't match Indy in 1973 or in 1974 and I don't recognise the front wing design. The side radiator height suggests this is still early in the design's development. Late 1973?


Picture 81. A #40 STP Eagle 72 so some time in 1973 or maybe early 1974.


Picture 86. 1973. Joe Leonard in his Parnelli VPJ2.


Picture 117. 1973, I believe. Leonard in his #1 Samsonite Parnelli VPJ2 again.

http://www.oldracing...er/USAC-154.jpg
Picture 154. 1973 but not sure where. Leonard's #1 Parnelli VPJ2 and Johncock's #20 STP Eagle 72.

http://www.oldracing...er/USAC-157.jpg
Picture 157. 1972 or 1973. Sam Posey's Eagle 72.

http://www.oldracing...er/USAC-158.jpg
Picture 158. 1973, I believe. A #69 Eagle 72 with David Hobbs' name on it so this must be of the the 500s in 1973.

http://www.oldracing...er/USAC-184.jpg
Picture 184. 1972 or 1973. Sam Posey's Eagle 72.

http://www.oldracing...er/USAC-189.jpg
Picture 189. 1973. Leonard's #1 Samsonite Parnelli VPJ2 again.

Thanks

Allen

[Allen Brown]

I forgot to mention that all pictures are copyright Autosports Marketing Associates and Bill Oursler 2001.

Allen

[fines]

Oh dear...

A few quick & dirty notes:

#34 & #154 are Trenton, the guardrail in the background is very peculiar

#35 is not a '74 Eagle, that's for sure (very different rollover bar), actually all the Eagles are certainly pre-'74

#81 & #86 are Indianapolis, as far as I can tell - actually, I'm pretty sure!

#158 probably Indy, too

The majority of pictures (all those of cars on a banked turn with a double-stripe at the bottom) are certainly not Indy, the banking's way too steep - I would venture a guess and say it's Michigan!?

Sue Miele was Buford's girlfriend. :hehe:

[Allen Brown]

Hi Michael

Thanks for all this. I hadn't heard about Buford and Sue but I suppose I should have guessed.

Originally posted by fines
#35 is not a '74 Eagle, that's for sure (very different rollover bar), actually all the Eagles are certainly pre-'74

I have two ways of telling 72 Eagles from the later batch: the vent on the nose is level with the front suspension on the 72 Eagles but is higher up on the 73 and 74 Eagles; and the roll hoop is upright on the 72 Eagles and sloping backwards on the 73 and 74 Eagles. So, if you compare the two STP cars (pictures 49 and 50), you can clearly see both features of a 72 Model on Picture 49 and both features of the 73 Model on Picture 50. Johncock's car at Indy 1974 is called a 74 Eagle in Hungness but I suspect it's actually a '73.

How do you tell a 74 from a 73?

For anyone reading who's not up on the 72-74 range of Eagles, AAR built six or seven or eight before Indy in 1972 then built another batch of about nine later in 1972 then built a third batch of '72 Eagles early in 1973. Also built early in 1973 were four '73 Eagles for AAR themselves to use at Indy. Then, in the summer of 1973, AAR built two more '73 Eagles for customers (I now suspect Patrick Racing was one such customer and Bob Fletcher the other). Finally, starting in December 1973, AAR built about 15 '74 Eagles.

Many of the Eagles that appear at Indy for the first time in 1973 are actually 72 Model Eagles even though Hungness tends to refer to them as '73 Eagles. Confused? We've hardly started yet!

Allen

[Jim Thurman]

I say the non-Indy shots are all Trenton. It doesn't look wide enough for Michigan International. Everyone forgets how steep turns 3-4 were at Trenton.

Plus the graffiti...since Trenton had easy access to the neighborhood and homes directly behind the backstretch.

Some tracks were partially guard rail, partially concrete as far as walls.

The only other comment I have is that while I don't recognize the helmet in photo #58, it looks like McElreath. Clearly a much bigger man than Posey.

On the graffiti, do you suppose Buford did it, or did Sue?

[gbl]

thanks Allen that really helps How to tell a 73 from a 74 Eagle - haven't found out yet, seems like many cars were upgraded with various parts or even ran with different parts in different races (see the endparts of the sidepods). Now I'll need to take a closer look at the pictures...

I can already tell a little bit on the #61 car. That is Lee Brayton. He usually had the #61 on his own car. I have another picture from 1973 Trenton with a closeup where he's in a STP sponsored Eagle with the black "Patrick Racing Team" logo on it. Possible a "creative" joint venture with his own car but fielded by Pat Patrick.

[Vukie]

The track with the concerte walls and very high banking is Texas World Speedway, College Station, Texas.

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by gbl
I have another picture from 1973 Trenton with a closeup where he's in a STP sponsored Eagle with the black "Patrick Racing Team" logo on it.

Could you post that picture? Is it exactly the same as this picture as that might prove that Sue Miele Raceway is indeed Trenton.

Phil Harms data (thanks to Michael) has Brayton's car listed as 'unknown' from Michigan (17 Sep) onwards. I guess this was because Phil wasn't sure whether he was still using his Coyote 72 or had progressed to the Eagle that he later crashed in practice at Indy 74.

Brayton's 1974 Indy Eagle (see Davidson p121) has the upright roll hoop of a 72 model - just like Picture 32 here - but it has front facing supports very similar to the ones with which other 72 Eagles of Vukovich (#4 - Hungness p52) and Carter (#11 - Davidson p99) have been modified. That might be a mod made early 1974 as it's shared by other cars.

If this is Brayton's car, one wonders if he's bought a Patrick Racing Eagle 72 and just not got around to repainting it.

Allen

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Vukie
The track with the concerte walls and very high banking is Texas World Speedway, College Station, Texas.

Hi Vukie

Welcome and thanks. You sound very sure. How sure?

Allen

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Jim Thurman
I say the non-Indy shots are all Trenton. It doesn't look wide enough for Michigan International. Everyone forgets how steep turns 3-4 were at Trenton.

Plus the graffiti...since Trenton had easy access to the neighborhood and homes directly behind the backstretch.

Some tracks were partially guard rail, partially concrete as far as walls.

That rickity guardrail in Pictures 34 and 154 matches pictures in Wallen (the 60s book) pp413, 414, 471, 511.

The Trenton 200 on 24 Sep?

But I can't see any pictures of Trenton that match the concrete wall.

Allen

[gbl]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Could you post that picture? Is it exactly the same as this picture as that might prove that Sue Miele Raceway is indeed Trenton.

Phil Harms data (thanks to Michael) has Brayton's car listed as 'unknown' from Michigan (17 Sep) onwards. I guess this was because Phil wasn't sure whether he was still using his Coyote 72 or had progressed to the Eagle that he later crashed in practice at Indy 74.

Brayton's 1974 Indy Eagle (see Davidson p121) has the upright roll hoop of a 72 model - just like Picture 32 here - but it has front facing supports very similar to the ones with which other 72 Eagles of Vukovich (#4 - Hungness p52) and Carter (#11 - Davidson p99) have been modified. That might be a mod made early 1974 as it's shared by other cars.

If this is Brayton's car, one wonders if he's bought a Patrick Racing Eagle 72 and just not got around to repainting it.

Allen

Ask the guys over at trackforum, some posted some pictures from that race a while I go. I can't since I could never sign in - don't know if I'm pre-banned or had other problems
And tell them that the #91 car that is not listened in the stats is likely the Curtis Auto Center car car ;)

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by gbl


Ask the guys over at trackforum, some posted some pictures from that race a while I go. I can't since I could never sign in - don't know if I'm pre-banned or had other problems
And tell them that the #91 car that is not listened in the stats is likely the Curtis Auto Center car car ;)

I just searched TrackForum and found the thread you refer to. It's here. At the end of the thread, 'MichaelP' mentions that Lee Brayton still owns the Johncock 1973 Indy 500 winner. This claim is mentioned by other threads on Trackforum. It fits with Gordie getting a new Eagle 73 some time in the fall and Patrick Racing then selling his older Eagle 72 to Lee in time for him to race at Michigan on 17 Sep.

The wear and tear on the red paintwork in the Trenton picture does not suggest to me a car that had just been repainted in STP colours. More like one that the owner had not yet had time to repaint from STP colours.

Also mentioned - and consistent with a later Hungness reference - is that the McRae #60 Eagle from the 1973 Indy 500 had become Dallenbach's #40 car for the rest of the season.

So, of the three 72 Eagles that Patrick Racing bought for the 1973 season, only one was still with the team by the end of the year. One other had been wrecked in Savage's accident and one more appears to have gone to Brayton. Didn't believe in spare cars, did they?

Allen

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
That rickity guardrail in Pictures 34 and 154 matches pictures in Wallen (the 60s book) pp413, 414, 471, 511.

The Trenton 200 on 24 Sep?

But I can't see any pictures of Trenton that match the concrete wall.

I think Vukie could very easily be correct. Sorry if I steered anyone wrong there, it didn't look like MIS or Texas World to me (I thought I was on a roll after the thread where I correctly identified Seattle International when everyone was convinced it was Road America or Laguna Seca .

Allen, any photos of Trenton that clearly show turns 3 & 4?. The metal rail (very distinctive BTW) would appear to be coming off turn 2 onto the backstraight - well, with the reverse kink.

[Buford]

Originally posted by fines
Oh dear...

Sue Miele was Buford's girlfriend. :hehe:

Sorry to be a wet noodle but I have no idea who Sue Miele is or was. Maybe Miele was a company someone was urging people to sue. Also what was blacked out after the name. Could it have been something Sue was known for doing or being good at?

[gbl]

Arghh, hey Allen, you make things more difficult then I expected. Found something you posted about Johncock having a 74 model in 1974, I know that the #60 car in 1974 was still a 72 model. So how does this fit together? Did Wally get the 73 car for 1974 and Gordy a new 74?????

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by gbl
Arghh, hey Allen, you make things more difficult then I expected. Found something you posted about Johncock having a 74 model in 1974, I know that the #60 car in 1974 was still a 72 model. So how does this fit together? Did Wally get the 73 car for 1974 and Gordy a new 74?????

I may have posted that before I knew about Patrick Racing's (alleged) 73 Eagle. I still have trouble telling the difference between a modified 73 Eagle and a 74 Eagle. The duct on the front is in the same place but the rubber inserts above the front suspension mounts may be different. They are triangular on the 74 cars and rectangular on the 72 cars but seem to have disappeared altogether on the 73 cars.

If you look at the three Patrick Eagles in the 74 Hungness, #20 and #40 appear identical and look like 74 Eagles except for the unusual roll-hoop stays on Gordie's #20. Both cars show the reduced fuel capacity but that could be a modification - you can see the same thing on Bill Simpson's ex-Patrick Racing Eagle 72.

So this is getting tricky, isn't it? If we look at the three 72 Eagles that Patrick had: the Savage car was wrecked in his accident; the Johncock car won Indy and (I think) was sold to Brayton; and the McRae-Dallenbach car was (says Hungness) sold to Richard Beith for Simpson to drive at Indy 1974.

So if all three are accounted for, what on earth is the #60 Steve Krislioff entry at Indy in 1974? The nose (duct and rubber inserts) say it's a 72 Eagle but the roll-hoop is ambiguous. On other 72 Eagles, the roll hoop is at the very back of the bulkhead but on Krisiloff's car there is bodywork continuing behind the roll hoop. I can't find a picture that shows whether it's vertical or slanted. Hungness calls it a 73 car but rather oddly avoids mention of its previous history. According to the 1975 Hungness, this car is back at Indy in 1975 as Grant's #73 car but now has 74-style rubber inserts and nose duct but 72-style double fuel fillers! Hungness now calls it a 74 Eagle. Unless Patrick Racing have totally rebuilt this car for some reason, I suspect Hungness must have got this wrong.

So I don't know what Patrick Racing had in 1974. Maybe one new 74 Eagle or maybe two. We really need AAR's production records. Or some ex-Patrick employees to explain it all to us.

Allen

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Buford


Sorry to be a wet noodle but I have no idea who Sue Miele is or was. Maybe Miele was a company someone was urging people to sue. Also what was blacked out after the name. Could it have been something Sue was known for doing or being good at?

You're good at this! Miele Sanitation is a Trenton firm that appears often in New Jersey legal records. That could be exactly what it is.

Allen

[fines]

Originally posted by Buford
Maybe Miele was a company someone was urging people to sue.

Yes, that was my thought, too, but I felt the answer I gave was funnier - sorry, Bu!

Allen, you surprise me - you can't tell a '74 Eagle from an earlier one? Just look at the rollover bar: one long support = pre '74; two short supports = '74. More subtle differences were a smaller cockpit, slightly repositioned (to the back) radiators, and triangular (instead of rectangular) bump stops for the front suspension.

[Vukie]

I've changed my mind, at first the banking seemed steep for Trenton. I have magazines that show Texas in the USAC days and they appeared to be the same track.

I know that the USAC midgets and sprints raced at Trenton in those years, I figured that will banking like that on a 1.5 mile track, the speeds would be too high for them. I was wrong.

After looking at pictures in USAC yearbook, the strange looking guardrail was still up in turns 1 and 2 and on the backstraight in the late 1970's.

After checking the USAC yearbook for 1973, it's Trenton for sure. The race date was September 23 and the weather was overcast.

Car # 61 is Lee Brayton, Eisenhour-Brayton/ Offy, he placed 16th in the 200 miler.

Car #16 is Bentley Warren, U.S Air Force/Offy, he placed 12th.

Car #55 is Lee Kunzman,Cobre Tire/Offy, Lee was 10th.

Car #86 is Al Loquasto,Martin Guitar/Offy, he was 18th.

Car #34 is McElreath,Norris/Offy, Jim was 5th.

The next race for 1973 was Texas, the #16, #86, and the # 34 didn't race that day.

[gbl]

12, 81, 86, 158 and 184 are from Indy, the rest are from the September Trenton race.

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by fines
Allen, you surprise me - you can't tell a '74 Eagle from an earlier one? Just look at the rollover bar: one long support = pre '74; two short supports = '74. More subtle differences were a smaller cockpit, slightly repositioned (to the back) radiators, and triangular (instead of rectangular) bump stops for the front suspension.

These are indeed the differences between a 72 car and a 74 car but are they differences between a 73 and a 74? What I said was that I couldn't tell the difference between a modified 73 and a 74, not between a 72 and a 74.

The rollover hoop supports were often modified (check out the 1974 Indy 500 line up) so that isn't conclusive. The angle of the rollover hoop is a better guide but the 73 and 74 cars share the slanted rollover hoop - presumably after Unser demolished the first 73 Eagle testing at Ontario and AAR remounted the hoop on the monocoque instead of the engine. The bump stop inserts were indeed square on a 72 and triangular on a 74 ( as I said in an earlier post) but what shape were they on a 73?

The cockpit width and radiator repositioning are the bit that's proving a bit too subtle to pick out in pictures.

The best comparative pictures I have are on pp96 and 97 of the Ludvigsen book and it really is subtle.

I'm suffering from a nasty case of vanishing 73 Eagles. There were six - minus the Ontario wreck - but I can't spot any of them in the 1974 Indy 500.

Allen

[Buford]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
You're good at this! Miele Sanitation is a Trenton firm that appears often in New Jersey legal records. That could be exactly what it is.

Allen

Once again TNF answers a burning open question from racing history. The hell with the cars. We figured out the sign!

[gbl]

Most of the roll bars were modified for 1975 or so, how about the 1976 AAR entries, are they 73 ones?

I've sum up, what I have so far, any corrections are welcome:

AAR
---

1972: Eagle 72 (7201, 7203, 7205)
1973: Eagle 72 (Wally Dallenbach), Eagle 73 (Unser, Grant)
1974-75: Eagle 74
1976: Eagle 73?

Alex Morales
------------

1975: Eagle 72
1976: Eagle 72 (#78), Eagle 74 (#5)

Art Sugai
---------

1977: Eagle 72 (7225)

Bill Finley
-----------

1978: Eagle 72 (7228)

Bill Simpson
------------

1976: Eagle 72 (7225)

Bob Fletcher
------------

1973: Eagle 72, Eagle 73 (car #55)
1974: Eagle 72 (Carter), Eagle 74
1975: Eagle 72 (#55), Eagle 74
1976: Eagle 74
1977: Eagle 74?, not a modified one

Brayton Racing
--------------

1973: Eagle 72 (since Michigan II, ex-Johncock car)

Champcarr Enterprises
---------------------

1972-73: Eagle 72 (7202, 7220)

Crower Cams
-----------

1973-75: Eagle 72 (7205)
1979: Eagle 73?

Dick Simon
----------

1973-76: Eagle 72 (7212)

Donald Mergard
--------------

1977: Eagle 72

Empress Traveler
----------------

1982: Eagle 72 (with engine cover, so an ex-Leader Cards or Vatis car)

Fred Gerhard
------------

1972-76: Eagle 72 (7206, 7209, 7216)


Fred Carillo
------------

1975-77: Eagle 74


Gehlhausen
------------

1978: Eagle 74 (ex Fletcher modified, the Brands Hatch car looks like a standard model, only found a reference calling it a 73)


Gibson Racing
-------------

1976-79: Eagle 74 (ex Johncock car, Parnelli tube)


Hoffman Auto Racing
-------------------

1978: Eagle 72 (always called a 73 car, so it has to be one build in early 73)


Intercomp
---------

1979-80: Eagle 72 (7228)

Jerry O'Connell
---------------

1972-73: Eagle 72
1974-77: Eagle 74

Joe Hunt
-------------------

1978-81: Eagle 74

Leader Card
-----------

1973: Eagle 72 (7218, 7221)
1974: Eagle 74 (car #98)
1975: Eagle 72
1976: Eagle 74, Eagle 72 as backup car #29
1977-78: Eagle 74

Lindsey Hopkins
---------------

1973-74: Eagle 72 (7211, 7215)

Longhorn
--------

1974: Eagle 74 (ex-Mike Devin car)

McElreath
---------

1978: Eagle 74

McNamara / Lee Elkins
---------------------

1975-77: Eagle 74

Mike Devin
----------

1973-74: Eagle 72 (7228)
1975-76: Eagle 74

MVS
---

1973-75: Eagle 72 (7201)

Parnelli
--------

1974-75: Eagle 74

Patrick Racing
--------------

1973: Eagle 72 (7210, 7217, 7219)
Eagle 73 (Johncock somewhere between Indy and Michigan II)
1973: Eagle 72 (#60)
Eagle 74

Patrick Santello
----------------

1977: ?, ex 1976 AAR car?

Penske
------

1973: Eagle 72 (7225)

Richard Beith / American Kids Racer
-----------------------------------

1974-79: Eagle 72 (ex-Patrick car)

Roy Woods
---------

1973: Eagle 72 (7223)

Smokey Yunick
-------------

1972-75: Eagle 72 (7208)

Tom Frantz
--------------

1976: Eagle 72

Vatis Enterprises
-----------------

1975-77: Eagle 72 (7228+unknown)

Warner Hodgdon
--------------

1976: Eagle 72
1978: Eagle 74 (ex Carillo car)

Webster Racing
--------------

1975-76: Eagle 72

[Allen Brown]

Good list. I spotted a few things:

The Mergard car was ex-Sugaripe Prune; the Brayton car was a 72, not a 73; one of those ex-Fletcher Gehlhausen cars may well have been the team's old 73 car as I think one of their pair of 74s was wrecked.

Is Hunt's definitely a 73? I know someone is saying their hillclimbing F5000 Eagle (!) is 7302 and has a wheel with 'Hunt' on it but I think the evidence is less than conclusive. Do you have some other reference to Hunt having a 73?

I'd be surprised if AAR used anything except their pair of 74 cars in 1976.

Allen

[gbl]

Joe Hunt had a 74 car as I wrote, the 76 AAR cars have that additional roll bar attachment to the back so that's confusing, they also have different sidepods for both cars. Corrected the Brayton car.

[malvi]

Hunt`s car pics in 81 yearbook(Krueger demolished that car in practice and suffered fractured ribs,broken shoulder&facial burns) looks like 1974 car for me to (high nose vent,backwards roll hoop).
In 1983 Cart annual is a story about Phil Krueger who "first appeared at indy in 81,after spending the winter putting Joe Hunts 1974 Eagle-Chevy together..." It make sense.

1981 Bob Frey`s car was defenitely 1972 Eagle-any ideas of this car history???

[gbl]

Is it possible to get a picture of the Frey car, I've never seen it.

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Buford


Once again TNF answers a burning open question from racing history. The hell with the cars. We figured out the sign!

Too bad, I'd already started tracking down Susan Miele's to check on...

[Buford]

She'd be an old bag now. Get one of the new haughty fresh ones.

[Paul_H]

Picture #81 is Swede Savage at Indy 1973

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Buford
Once again TNF answers a burning open question from racing history. The hell with the cars. We figured out the sign!

That's what it's good at!

Thanks, fines, for bringing this all to the attention of the inquisitive ones...

[Duncan Fox]

Allen Pic 57 , Al Laquasto had wrecked M16B-4 ( Penske 72 Bettenhausen) at Indy in 73 , his other car was M16-4 another Penske car Donahue this time .I have 72 N/Ent 73 not run, dna.74 Mahler dnq 75,6,7 Laquasto Frostie Root Beer Special. You had another question regarding the Hopkins cars , what was that?

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Duncan Fox
Allen Pic 57 , Al Laquasto had wrecked M16B-4 ( Penske 72 Bettenhausen) at Indy in 73 , his other car was M16-4 another Penske car Donahue this time .I have 72 N/Ent 73 not run, dna.74 Mahler dnq 75,6,7 Laquasto Frostie Root Beer Special. You had another question regarding the Hopkins cars , what was that?

Yes, that's what I had until I tried to match it to the results. If Loquasto wrecked M16B-4 at Indy in 1973 and Mahler still has M16-4 as late as 1974, what was Loquasto driving in the USAC races later in 1973? For example, what's he driving in the picture above if it was taken at Trenton Sep 73?

Or are you saying that Loquasto already owned M16-4 when Mahler drove it?

Allen