69 replies to this topic

[TheStranger]

Yeah, I know, it's called "Mulsanne" right? Not if you go by the French name "Les Hunaudieres."

Considering that both names are French, why is it that the former has become so much more dominant in the lexicon of Le Mans lore and descriptions, even though that name originally applied just to the hard right hander at the end of the straight? I'm surmising that originally the English speaking drivers called it the "straight to Mulsanne [corner]" and the moniker stuck, but maybe there's another explanation for it.

After all, I just found out a month or so ago that Indianapolis was named...for its one-time brick pavement.

[Buford]

And White House was named for.... well I forget.

[Ray Bell]

...and the Ford Chicane?

[TheStranger]

What about Dunlop, never knew what that one was all about.

[Catalina Park]

The Porsche curves?

[Ray Bell]

Tetre Rouge? And that follows the Esses, right?

[Twin Window]

As far as I know, the 'Mulsanne Straight' is known locally as la ligne droite des Hunaudières. I think I'm right in saying that it's the main road to Mulsanne.

'White House' - a literal translation of Maison Blanche - is so called because of the, well, white house next to the track...

[Buford]

Well then whats the kink all about anyway?

[Arjan de Roos]

Ligne droite des hunaudieres

Didnt know that one on Indianapolis and its pavement

When did they start to call the shop area Le Village?

[TheStranger]

Originally posted by Twin Window
As far as I know, the 'Mulsanne Straight' is known locally as la ligne droite des Hunaudières. I think I'm right in saying that it's the main road to Mulsanne.

Makes sense...what's the translation for "Hunaudieres"?

Originally posted by Twin Window
'White House' - a literal translation of Maison Blanche - is so called because of the, well, white house next to the track...

Wow, had never seen a picture of the Maison Blanche itself (except in racing simulation versions of Sarthe) - thanks!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posed by Buford
Well then whats the kink all about anyway?

Just somewhere for the fast boys to brag about going through flat...

[TheStranger]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
Didnt know that one on Indianapolis and its pavement

I found that tidbit here:

http://www.bigmoneyr...ns/circuit.html

Although Le Mans in any form existed before Indy, the Sarthe circuit came about 10 years later so it's not surprising that they took some inspiration from the Brickyard for naming (this was before the Junk Formula came along Stateside.)

[Buford]

Just somewhere for the fast boys to brag about going through flat...

Yeah - makes the kink at Road America look like girl's school play I bet.

[Twin Window]

Here's the sequence approaching and exiting Maison Blanche...









These are from 1988, when I photographed an entire lap (well, as much as was accessible or extant) of the original circuit. I can see if I can locate the rest of the film if anyone's interested.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Buford
Yeah - makes the kink at Road America look like girl's school play I bet.

Well, when I stood downwind of it back in '81... and watched various 935s and so on coming through there onto the final stretch down to the braking area for Mulsanne, it just looked pretty ordinary...

But as I followed one of these cars through, watching it until the stoplights came on, and then swung back to see if anything else was in sight yet... and there was a WM or a 956 right there in front of me... Wow! How did he get there?

[philippe7]

Originally posted by TheStranger
Yeah, I know, it's called "Mulsanne" right? Not if you go by the French name "Les Hunaudieres."

Considering that both names are French, why is it that the former has become so much more dominant in the lexicon of Le Mans lore and descriptions, even though that name originally applied just to the hard right hander at the end of the straight?

Maybe simply because "Mulsanne" is easier to pronounce -somehow- correctly for an english speaking person than "Les Hunaudières" ......

[wdm]

I believe Les Hunaudières was originally a horse-racing track. Whether or not this forms part of the current car track, I couldn't say.

Incidentally, it was at Les Hunaudières that Wilbur Wright gave his first European demonstration in a Wright Flyer, on 8 August 1908.

Willie

[chofar]

The White House has been destroyed recently.
The horse-racing track is still there I think.
If I understand well what Ray says, he might be standing by The Hunaudières curve, because Maison Blanche is no longer used since 1971.
Anyway, Les Hunaudières is the name of the small village (hameau in french).

[Ray Bell]

No, I was on the side of the straight maybe 300 metres from the braking area for Mulsanne.

[chofar]

Restricted area, Ray ?
Beside the golf course ?
Speed is really amazing at this place, as it is also at the restaurant. For that WM, we talk about 100m/s , it is sufficient to unscrew one's neck

[Ray Bell]

Yeah, in the restricted area...

I was with three drivers entered in the race... they could go wherever they liked and I went with them.

[TheStranger]

Hey Twin Window...

In that 1988 tour of the circuit, did you get as far as Pontliere/Rue du Circuit (part of the original course pre-Dunlop)?

[Keir]

I guess that it's time for me to be a DB and chime in with.............

"The straight that is no longer straight because the bloody powers that be decided that the straight was too bloody long to begin with and chicanes just add to the thrill of the experience"

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Buford

Yeah - makes the kink at Road America look like girl's school play I bet.

Fancy this at 235mph in a Porsche 917, Buford...?

Originally posted by Ray Bell

No, I was on the side of the straight maybe 300 metres from the braking area for Mulsanne.

Round about here then, Raymondo...

Originally posted by TheStranger

Hey Twin Window...

In that 1988 tour of the circuit, did you get as far as Pontliere/Rue du Circuit (part of the original course pre-Dunlop)?

Hi Chris

Well, you've got me there... I'm afraid I wasn't even aware that there was a specific pre-Dunlop section! As it happens, I couldn't have got there anyhow, as access to the circuit was prohibitted between the grandstands which now sit across the old track at (roughly) the Ford chicane area and Tetre Rouge.

Originally posted by Keir

I guess that it's time for me to be a DB and chime in with.............

"The straight that is no longer straight because the bloody powers that be decided that the straight was too bloody long to begin with and chicanes just add to the thrill of the experience"

Keir

The chicanes were added as a result of Jo Gartner's accident there, following on a year after the barriers had been increased to triple-layer for the same reason.

[LB]

Twinny the chicanes were put in the track in 1990 after the FIA declared that straights had to be shorter than a certain length in all tracks. Jo Gartner died in 1986 the triple barrier was up in 1987. the Dunlop Curve recieved its chicane in 1987 but that was largely because of the bikes on the short circuit.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Round about here then, Raymondo...

No... that's the top of the rise... and actually in the braking area...

I was back in the area before the braking area... so as I followed cars through they would go up that rise and out of sight into the area seen in your picture.

Wait till I get back to Harden and scan some more pics..

[TheStranger]

Twin Window...

Hmm, here's a couple of track maps for the pre-Dunlop layout (until about 1931 or so...)

http://www.racingcir...e/LeMans21.html - Pontlieue configuration (used in the very first 24h)

http://www.racingcir...e/LeMans29.html - Rue Du Circuit configuration (used for a very short time before Dunlop Curve was built (and the grandstands/barrier at the beginning of Dunlop Curve surely would obscure at least a part of that run to the hairpin/Rue).

So until 1931, Tertre Rouge wasn't even a proper corner per se, but rather a kink into Mulsanne...

Does anyone have a circuit map including access roads? Maybe the old straightaway from Dunlop to Rue Du Circuit/Pontlieue is now access...

[Twin Window]

Hi LB

Despite being unable to put a year on their arrival, I can assure you that the chicanes were instituted as a result of the events of 1986. Trust me, I (sadly) know all about that year's event.

And yes, like I said, the barriers were increased in '87.

Ray

I posted that shot purely because you'd mentioned the 300 metres - and the 300m sign is in the shot!

Are you therefore suggesting that the blokes [edit: and women ] were therfore braking before the kink? It's only ever been flat or 'chicken-flat' to the best of my knowledge...

[Ray Bell]

The 300m sign is part of the braking area for Mulsanne, right?

I said I was about 300m before the braking area. Well after the kink, but they were still in sight when they hit the brakes for Mulsanne...

[wibblywobbly]

If I remember correctly, David Hobbs said, on a SPEED telecast, that Indianapolis corner got that name because it was a banked left hander. Interesting bit about the bricks, though.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Ray Bell

I said I was about 300m before the braking area.

Indeed you did. My mistake - apologies, Ray...

[LB]

Hi Twinny. I am 100% sure on the FIA declaration on straight length being the reason for the chicanes. The Gartner accident was likely a factor in this decision for it hardly affected another track, however why the 4 year gap?

I originally thought Bathurst was affected too but the chase was in for 1987 again at the FIA's Decree ( hence froggie wiggle as it became known).

[Simpson RX1]

I made a point of driving along the Mulsanne on my way back from Spain a few years ago........I've never been to the Le Mans race, and all I can say is.............no f**king thanks!!!!!

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Twin Window

Fancy this at 235 mph in a Porsche 917, Buford...?

I was corrected on this today; Jackie Oliver was hitting in excess of 245 mph in his JW Gulf 917...

[Simpson RX1]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Twin Window
I was corrected on this today; Jackie Oliver was hitting in excess of 245 mph in his JW Gulf 917...


Well I did it at about 50mph Stuart, and that was enough!

[Twin Window]

Yeah, I know what you're saying...

Mike Hailwood was quoted as saying (IIRC) that the straight was so long that you had the time to check all your instruments, pick your nose and then wave at your mates in the restaurant before concerning yourself with the kink...

[Simpson RX1]

Unless of course you happen to be Peter Dumbreck, in which case, you're doing 200+ and suddenly taking the wildest ride of all.............

Sure beats any rollercoaster I've been on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kpy]

Originally posted by Simpson RX1
Unless of course you happen to be Peter Dumbreck, in which case, you're doing 200+ and suddenly taking the wildest ride of all.............

Sure beats any rollercoaster I've been on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was Mark Webber who went flying at the hump before Mulsanne corner in 1999 - once in practice and then again in the Saturday morning warm-up. He declined to race. Dumbreck flew off on the same ridge as he got very close to Boutson's Toyota on the run towards Indianapolis. I was there and saw it happen "live" on the big screen. He was very lucky that he was not in an open-topped car and that the trees he landed in were saplings.

[Lotus23]

The place has changed a lot since I was there '61 - '63.

Back then, you could -- and I often did -- drive a whole lap any time of the day or night 51 weeks a year. No Armco, no barriers, no chicanes. Trees very close to the track, with only a few haybales in place during the race. Mulsanne was just WFO for the whole 4 miles.

A lot like the Nordschleife in that it's much safer today, but has lost some of the romantic "character" it had in my youth. (Whoever said you can never go home again was close to the mark.)

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Lotus23
..... (Whoever said you can never go home again was close to the mark.)

Gene Pitney, 24 Hours to Tulsa?

[jarama]

The late Fermín Vélez, one of the most experienced spanish drivers in international racing (Le Mans, Indy, F3000, F3, IMSA, etc) once said to me:

"The one and only spot where I'm feeling afraid that something awful can happens is in the Hunadières straight. Is too much long, you're traveling @ well over 300 kph while other cars are doing the same about 80 kmh slower... and during the night is still worse."


Carles.

[Lotus23]

I asked Phil Hill about this when I last saw him in August: back then, the Ferraris were, IIRC, somewhere on the north side of 180mph while the tiddlers (DB Panhards) could barely achieve 100. The closing rates at night, particularly with rain and/or fog added, could make things mighty dicey.

Phil never used the word "scared", but he did admit it was "challenging"!

[dmj]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Gene Pitney, 24 Hours to Tulsa?

I'd bet it was someone else, speaking to Silver Surfer...

[bigears]

Over at the fameflame forums (a motorsport video forum) and we are currently going through a discussion about the Hunaudieres straight and the rest of the Le Mans circuit layout.

We trying to think of any classic Mulsanne accidents and so far we put together like this:


1960 - Jonathon Sieff in his Lotus Elite

1969 - Henri Pescarolo in his Matra 640 (during testing)

Udo Schutz in his Porsche 908

Lucien Bianchi which resulted in a fatal accident.

1976 - Andre Haller in his Datsun 260Z

1978 - Bob Garretson in his Porsche 935

1981 - Jean Louis Lafosse was killed and his accident resulted several marshals being injured

Desire Wilson (no more information)

Thierry Bousten in his WM Peugeot and unfortunately one marshal was killed in the accident

1984 - John Sheldon in his Aston Martin

1985 - Dudley Wood in his Porsche 956 (I heard that the engine was still running after the accident!)

1984: John Sheldon in his Aston Martin

1986: Jo Gartner in his Porsche 962 (sadly it was a fatal accident )

1987: Win Percy in his JaguarXJR-8

1988: An unknown Sauber Mercedes driver

1989: Jonathan Palmer in his Porsche 962

1990: The Hunaudieres Straight was chicaned after Jean Marie Balestre lost it after he heard about the Project 400 at the 1988 Le Mans.

Is there any more of those Hunaudieres accidents? Any additional information with the drivers i mentioned above would be grateful.

Also regarding about the Hunaudieres Straight, I recall that there was some Mulsanne specials such as the WM Peugeot V-6 turbo powered car. Also I looked in here:

http://forums.atlasf...y=&pagenumber=2

And the second last post mentioned of a car called a TJ-ROC 01 and I couldn't find more information about it. Is there any more of the Mulsanne specials?

[KWSN - DSM]

1988 must be the John Nielsen summersault.



Edit already no that can not have been in 1988 - John Nielsen flipped a Sauber Mercedes, but not in 1988 maybe 1986 or 1987.

[fausto]

the TJ is also known as Chevron ROC:
http://gto-racing.ne..._ChevronROC.htm

pictures:
http://www.racingspo...7-06-14-113.jpg

http://www.racingspo...8-06-12-114.jpg

[bigears]

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM
1988 must be the John Nielsen summersault.



Edit already no that can not have been in 1988 - John Nielsen flipped a Sauber Mercedes, but not in 1988 maybe 1986 or 1987.

It was in 1985. Look in here:

http://users.pandora...ans_Nielsen.htm

[KWSN - DSM]

Originally posted by bigears


It was in 1985. Look in here:

http://users.pandora...ans_Nielsen.htm

Thanks.

The moment I pressed "submit" I knew it to be wrong, since I went to Le Mans in 1988 (only time sofar), and he was by then a Jaguar driver.

[GIGLEUX]

1967: Robby Weber fatal accident, too, with the type 630 Matra-BRM, during the april tsts.

[William Dale Jr]

I'm pretty sure it was Klaus Neidzwiedz at the wheel of the Sauber that had the tyre burst at Le Mans in 1988. He escaped unscathed from that, only to injure himself soon afterwards when he crashed his Eggenberger Ford Sierra touring car in a DTM race at the Nurburgring.