Hello again,
Here is another question from Patrick:
"A Bugatti type 51 was raced in Brazil between 1935 and 1942: which s/n? and which pilot?
Could-it be 51158 from Portuguese Ribeiro Ferreira?
Best regards,
Patrick"
Thanks,
Antoine
Racing Bugatti in Brazil
Started by
Pils1989
, Mar 26 2005 23:25
6 replies to this topic
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#2
Pils1989
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Posted 26 March 2005 - 23:27
ooops, wrong forum...
Babbel or Twin Window, could you move this thread to TNF please?
Sorry about that
Thanks!
Babbel or Twin Window, could you move this thread to TNF please?
Sorry about that
Thanks!
#3
babbel
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Posted 26 March 2005 - 23:41
Originally posted by Pils1989
ooops, wrong forum...
Babbel or Twin Window, could you move this thread to TNF please?
Sorry about that
Thanks!
sure
#4
David McKinney
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Posted 27 March 2005 - 07:00
Can't help much, I'm afraid
I don't think either Ribeiro Ferreira or the car's next owner, Casimiro de Oliveira, raced it in Brazil. The only Portuguese Bugatti drivers I have records of racing in Brazil are Henry Lehrfeld (35B) and José de Almeida Araujo (T35) in 1935 and 1936.
There were numerous domestically-run Bugattis in Brazil in the 1930s, but my records do not indicate which, if any, ight have been T51s.
Sorry
I don't think either Ribeiro Ferreira or the car's next owner, Casimiro de Oliveira, raced it in Brazil. The only Portuguese Bugatti drivers I have records of racing in Brazil are Henry Lehrfeld (35B) and José de Almeida Araujo (T35) in 1935 and 1936.
There were numerous domestically-run Bugattis in Brazil in the 1930s, but my records do not indicate which, if any, ight have been T51s.
Sorry
#6
humphries
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Posted 29 March 2005 - 16:01
Antoine, David
The de Oliveiras brothers raced at Gavea in 1938, Manoel with his highly effective Ford Special and Casimiro with a Bugatti. Manoel was 3rd and Casimiro 5th. If the Ferreira T51 was sold to them then it was almost certainly the car Casimiro used. Reportedly this race was held on 12th June, 1938 but Casimiro was racing a Bugatti, back home in Portugal, at Vila Real on 24th June, 1938. It would seem very unlikely that the cars could have been shipped back to Europe in such a short time. The Ferreira T51 was all one colour, fairly lightish, possibly blue. The car Casimiro used at Vila Real was two colours, light frame with a dark body. This colour scheme is identical to the 35C Bugatti raced by Monte Real in 1936/1937. As Monte Real was not racing at Vila Real in 1938 it lends weight to the likelihood that Casimiro's Vila Real car was this ex-Monte Real 35C.
Motor-racing seems to have virtually ceased in Portugal in 1939 and not only did the T51 not appear again but neither did Manoel's Special. They probably were both sold in Brazil.
As to who bought the T51 I can only speculate but Domingo Lopes seems the most likely. He had raced a Bugatti for a few seasons with indifferent results but in 1939-1941 his performances improved and he was able to compete against the Monza Alfas and Maseratis, if not with the more modern types of these marques.
By 1941 Lopes's Bugatti was the only one in the "Carros de Corrida" class, all the other Bugattis disappearing into the "Carros de Adaptados" class when they were fitted with various American engines.
It may be that all this is totally wrong but it might give the more knowledgeable Bugatti historians a chance to get it right.
John
The de Oliveiras brothers raced at Gavea in 1938, Manoel with his highly effective Ford Special and Casimiro with a Bugatti. Manoel was 3rd and Casimiro 5th. If the Ferreira T51 was sold to them then it was almost certainly the car Casimiro used. Reportedly this race was held on 12th June, 1938 but Casimiro was racing a Bugatti, back home in Portugal, at Vila Real on 24th June, 1938. It would seem very unlikely that the cars could have been shipped back to Europe in such a short time. The Ferreira T51 was all one colour, fairly lightish, possibly blue. The car Casimiro used at Vila Real was two colours, light frame with a dark body. This colour scheme is identical to the 35C Bugatti raced by Monte Real in 1936/1937. As Monte Real was not racing at Vila Real in 1938 it lends weight to the likelihood that Casimiro's Vila Real car was this ex-Monte Real 35C.
Motor-racing seems to have virtually ceased in Portugal in 1939 and not only did the T51 not appear again but neither did Manoel's Special. They probably were both sold in Brazil.
As to who bought the T51 I can only speculate but Domingo Lopes seems the most likely. He had raced a Bugatti for a few seasons with indifferent results but in 1939-1941 his performances improved and he was able to compete against the Monza Alfas and Maseratis, if not with the more modern types of these marques.
By 1941 Lopes's Bugatti was the only one in the "Carros de Corrida" class, all the other Bugattis disappearing into the "Carros de Adaptados" class when they were fitted with various American engines.
It may be that all this is totally wrong but it might give the more knowledgeable Bugatti historians a chance to get it right.
John
#7
David McKinney
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Posted 29 March 2005 - 21:09
My earlier posting was based on my Brazilian notes, but by checking my Portuguese files I do indeed find reference to Casimiro de Oliveira racing the ex-Ribeiro Ferreira T51 at Gavea in 1938.
