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McLaren M1s


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#201 John M Cannon

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Posted 15 November 2007 - 18:46

The McLaren Mk1B Dan Blocker so kindly purchased for my dad. Three years later, it would win the '68 Laguna race. Quite a life-span.

Also, the current owner of this car has been in touch with me. Seems he bought the car in 1970 and it was as it last raced at Riverside 1968 but without the engine or gearbox. The car has not turned a wheel since and sits in his garage in the same condition as when he purchased it. Probably the last unrestored McLaren out there and one with a bit of historical significance too, I'd say.

(Photo credit: Robert Raymond/RS website)

Posted Image http://www.racingspo...6-09-18-062.jpg

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#202 zoff2005

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Posted 15 November 2007 - 19:03

Yes John, you have got to do it or you will regret it all your life! And it is something to keep you occupied this winter!
Good luck with the car!!
Marcus

#203 ssperka

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Posted 15 November 2007 - 19:52

I look at the red race car in Post 102 and ask myself “what have they done to my Zerex?” It isn’t the car as I remember it, but I do believe that it is the same car that Roger Penske built up from the wrecked GP Cooper from Cunningham and that we all followed through the years to Mecom and then on to McLaren. Though the overall appearance is quite different than I remember (mostly from periodicals -once or twice in person, but not up close), the one area that has remained virtually the same through the years is the rocker panel/sill area between the wheels, so I choose to strongly believe that this is the same car. We all wonder where the current body design came from, so far from the original Penske era shape. What happened to it after the shots of Bruce racing it (Post 118)?

I propose for consideration that the shape of the red car in Post 102 is the result of designs by the McLaren group and this red car (the Zerex) became the test mule for design considerations by McLaren. Take the top image in Post 102 and compare it to the two shots of the early M1A shown in Post 153. Pay particular attention to the nose area of the 2 cars. Though the nose of the red car appears more pointed, the general design and the area in front of the wheels and below the headlights extending to the mid-front are almost identical, the rest being very similar. I don’t think it is coincidence. I believe that the body style of the red car is a result of McLaren’s development efforts toward his own race car. The red car body style is by McLaren, not a subsequent owner. What do you all see in it?

#204 Cynic

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Posted 15 November 2007 - 21:47

Scott,

As those are my photos of the "red car" (Dave Morgan's car), I'll confirm that the body was definitely like this when Dave Morgan acquired it, apparently from John Mecom who got it from McLaren. As the car originally went to England as pictured in post 120 (race #47), the nose was certainly a McLaren design.

David Seibert

#205 cstlhn

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Posted 15 November 2007 - 22:42

My notes indicate that this one was taken in Nassau 1964. I have no other information on this photo?


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#206 Jerry Entin

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 02:28

David: That is a very nice picture. Howden Ganley is going to explain that car to the forum members and yourself. Here is what he believes the car was.
" The M1 is the first genuine McLaren, but it still used Cooper uprights, axles, and wheels.
It is distinct from the M1A, of which the prototype was built at Feltham
over the winter of 1964 - 65, and which had McLaren designed uprights , axles, wheels, steering rack, etc. Bruce drove the M1 at Mosport, Riverside, and Nassau in 1964. Wally Willmott and Tyler Alexander
were the mechanics. I was not."

Howden Ganley

#207 cstlhn

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 02:07

Jerry,
Thanks for your note. Here is Bruce a year later also in Nassau. Here you have a good look at the inner workings.

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#208 Jerry Entin

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 23:38

David: Another great picture from your beautiful collection. Above I said Howden Ganley believed this to be the M1. That is wrong. He doesn't believe it , The car in post #205 "he knows" it to be the M1. Howden is now going to explain this car that appeared a year later. The one in post#207
"This car is the first M1B. This car used the ZF gearbox in
place of the HD which was original equipment on the M1A's. By then the
engines were getting bigger. The Traco Olds had gone from 4 litre to 4.5
litre and on to 5 litre. That meant the Hewland HD ( which was really a F1 gearbox ) was starting to get a bit stretched, so Tyler Alexander built the prototype M1B with the ZF. For the next year the Hewland LG was available and that was fitted to the customer M1B's,which morphed into Mk3's."
Howden Ganley

#209 cstlhn

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 23:58

The car clearly has a ZF gearbox. Glad you like the photo. :)

#210 Jerry Entin

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Posted 24 November 2007 - 03:05

David to call your pictures great is a misjustice to them. They are Superb! I believe it is Tyler Alexander bent over working on the car. I also think the fellow in the Firestone shirt on the right is probably Wally Willmott.
And of course the good looking fellow in the driver suit is Bruce McLaren.

#211 Jerry Entin

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Posted 24 November 2007 - 18:19

Posted Image
The good looking kid in the #91 McLaren is Howden Ganley. Ian Gordon is the guy by the roll bar. This is at Nassau in 1966 and they are the cars of Skip Scott and Peter Revson. They had special Ford engines installed for this race. They almost won. Skip Scott had the lead on the last lap, but he spun out. The cars were traded to Carl Haas for Mk3's and Skip Barber bought one of them and I bought the other. I believe Howden is in the car I bought. This picture is from Terry O'Neil's great book on "The Bahamas Speedweeks", a must read.
photo Ted Walker collection-scanned for site Terry O'Neil
copyright 2007 Ted Walker

#212 cstlhn

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 02:56

Jerry,

Can you help me identify this photo?

Posted Image

PLEASE CREDIT THE DAVID CASTELAHNO COLLECTION

David

#213 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 07:23

Daily Express Silverstone 15/5 1965 "Group 7" ? Front row from left : John Coundley , Hugh Dibley , Jack Sears, David Prophet, The yellow ?

Great pic David , nice to see you ! Also on the 50s thread!

#214 kirkkeyes

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 07:26

Hi David - long time!

This photo is from the 07/10/65 Silverstone RAC. The far red #19 Lotus 30 is the Willment car that my dad currently owns. Bob Bondurant is at the wheel. I thought he had gridded 4th, but here it looks like 3rd. He finished 2nd but was disqualified for getting a push start.

Car #17 is John Dean in his Lotus 30, gridded in 6th. He placed 10th but his engine was not running at the finish.

Car #22 on the edge of the frame is Trevor Taylor in the distinctive yellow J. C. Bamford Lotus 30. I have him as gridding 9th and finishing 2nd.

Off the edge next to Taylor should be David Prophet in the #20 Lotus 30. He was gridded 8th and finished 4th.

This race had a pretty good field of Lotus 30s and they did pretty well. Interestingly, there was no Team Lotus entry in the field.

David, could you send me a copy of this photo?

Thanks!

Kirk - www.lotus30.com

#215 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 08:37

:wave: Thanks Kirk , I should have kept to my first guess then......

#216 Jerry Entin

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 14:51

Posted Image
Bruce McLaren in his McLaren at Riverside in 1964.
The car had Traco Olds power. Bruce McLaren was the class of the field, a water hose came off in the race and he had to come in to fix it.

This was the first race the whole Team wore matching outfits. They were in cowboy hats and white pants and short sleeve shirts. Tyler Alexander is at the back and Wally Willmott is on the right.

The guy without a shirt is Haig Altoonian he would go on to be Dan Gurney's mechanic when he won the Rex Mays Indy race held at Riverside. Haig would later work for Team McLaren and be the head mechanic on the movie LeMans. A very capable guy. Greatly admired.

Posted Image
Bruce McLaren all smiles getting into his McLaren Mk1
That is Tyler Alexander on the side in the cowboy hat.


Photos Kirby Guyer collection

#217 Miracle Man

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 04:00

In 65 there was another Canadian race at St. Jovite in the summer. McLaren won that one. Here are some shots from that event. First is the start of the race... Maple Leaf held high - standing start - 3 abreast

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McLaren looks a happy guy. Tyler next to him before the race

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Ludwig "The King" Heimrath was mentioned and here he sits in the middle during the driver parade lap talking with Sherm Decker

http://www.barcboys....mrathV2post.jpg

McLaren on his victory lap - note the Quebequois girls have already started their run to the pits

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#218 Miracle Man

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 04:20

Not sure why the Heimrath, Decker photo didn't post, but here it is again. Mont Tremblant / St. Jovite was a fabulous place. Fast, bumpy and dangerous but a grand drivers course.

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#219 Jerry Entin

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 15:27

Posted Image
Mk 2 McLaren owned by Kirt Speet

Posted Image
This car came from Fred Opert in 1968.
It originally had a 289 Ford engine and Hewland LG 500 gearbox. The color when Kirt recieved the car was Dark Blue with a white stripe.

Kirt Speet of the Holland, Michigan area changed the engine to a 351 Ford with Gurney heads and a Vertex magneto. His family owned the local Ford dealer in Holland, Michigan called R E Barber Ford. Before this car he ran a Ford powered Genie.

photos Bill Wiswedel

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#220 RickT

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 16:30

Hi Jerry

Fantastic post ! :clap:

This car is the car now owned by an American customer and looked after by us.

We knew the history back to Speet, but never knew where he got the car from. This post has now completed our ownership chain as we had it from new through to Opert !!

Are you in touch with Mr Speet or someone who knew him ?

Cheers
Richard Taylor

PS - Did you get my email last week about the Kansas M1 ?

#221 Jerry Entin

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 13:58

Posted Image
This is from Goodwood in 2004
The white McLaren is the Kirt Speet car as it appears today.


photo Richard Taylor collection

#222 johnbladon

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 13:34

[quote name='Doug Nye' date='Mar 31 2005, 10:56' post='1973509']
In theory BMcLMRT campaigned/built two sports cars through 1964, the 'Zerex' in its various forms, plus the original true sports McLaren, the works M1 prototype.

Into 1965 according to what they said at the time, Elva Trojan produced 24 customer M1As - owners/drivers of these cars that year including 'Noddy' Coombs (for Graham Hill), Alan Brown, David Prophet, John Coundley, George Wintersteen, Ludwig Heimrath, Charlie Hayes, Bud Gates, Augie Pabst (car burned out at Mosport), Richard Macon, Mike Goth, Ralph Salyer, and so on. The bulbous Turner-body M1Bs were then replicated in production form by Elva Trojan for 1966 and sold in the US as Mark 2s - and the M1C became the 1967 Trojan production model, sold in the US as the Mark 3.

New McLaren driver names appearing in USRRC events of 1966 included Lothar Motchenbacher of Van Nuys, Joe Starkey of Dallas, Jim Roe of Scottsdale, Bud Morley of Denver, Mason O'Keefe of Houston, Jerry Entin of Beverley Hills, Bill Amick of Portland, John Cannon of Pasadena, Chuck Parsons of Carmel, Dick Brown of Birmingham (Michigan), and Brooke Doran (Burket, Indiana).

In 1967 new McLaren names included Sam Posey (Sharon, Conn), Skip Scott (Devon, Pa), Jay Hills (LA), Jim Adams (Studio City, CA), Masten Gregory (NYC), Ted Peterson (Newport Beach) and Peter Revson (NYC)...and more...

As you will all be well aware the 1966 M6A works cars and their M6B production cousins for 1967 then launched the monocoque McLaren sports car line. Individual histories become an exceedingly tangled web...

DCN
Hi DCN, just to bring you up todate on the Augie Pabst M1a (20-05) after the fire at Mosport the car spent over 35 years in the Schley Museum before I acquired it in 2005. I'll try and attach some photos of it in the museum and of it when we dismantled it. The total rebuild is nearing completion and we hope to have it at the 2009 revival.
regards John Bladon




#223 Doug Nye

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 22:15

Hi, Allen,

Well, not at the ARRC, but rather at a National race; I think this is Selma, Alabama, although memory tells me it might be at Pensacola, Florida. I have may one or two other photos, and someone had a Cooper F1 at the same race (!).

David

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Ooooooohhhhhh!!!!! I have ONLY JUST seen these for the first time... Wonderful...

DCN

#224 yesteryearracing

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 18:16

Hello outthere,
I very enjoyed all the mail and photos about theMcLaren M1.s.

I do own a McLaren M1C 40-12.

In the early eighties this car was sold through Chris Drake collector cars to The Rosso Bianco museum of Peter Kauss.
I do have a copy of the invoice.Subsequently the car was imported into Germany.There it stayed until the museum was
acquired by Evert Louwman ( incl. this M1C) in 2006-2007
In 2007 I bought the car from him and drove the M1C at the Nurburgring Modena Trackdays in june 2009.

So from the early eighties the history is known.
Does anybody knows something about its early history???????Owners,colorscheme, races,specs.
Appreciate all the info.
Pieter Boel


























#225 David McKinney

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 21:10

I believe Nick Mason was an owner in the earlier 1980s
My records also say it was sold new to the US, but I have nothing between those dates

#226 yesteryearracing

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 01:16

Thanks david for your reply.
I heard about the Nick Mason connection . Anyway to contact him to confirm?
For sure somebody bought 40-12 to race it.
Pieter

#227 AJB

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 20:31

As you will all be well aware the 1966 M6A works cars and their M6B production cousins for 1967 then launched the monocoque McLaren sports car line. Individual histories become an exceedingly tangled web...

Just for the sake of accuracy, the M6A and M6B were launched in 1967 and 1968 respectively.
Alan


#228 AJB

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 20:43

In the early eighties this car was sold through Chris Drake collector cars to The Rosso Bianco museum of Peter Kauss.
I do have a copy of the invoice.Subsequently the car was imported into Germany.There it stayed until the museum was
acquired by Evert Louwman ( incl. this M1C) in 2006-2007

Pieter Boel

The Rosso Bianco museum also had an M1A in the black/silver colour scheme as in post 216. I assume it was a replica of the works car; anyone have any ideas?
Also when I was there, (in 2002 and without a camera, unfortunately) they had a Lola T70 spyder with what looked like brand new plain white bodywork. I couldn't get close enough for a good look. Was this all it seemed to be? (sorry to drift o/t)
Alan


#229 ERault

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Posted 15 November 2009 - 14:17

I would love this ambitious thread to go on. To sparke off new interest, here is a synthesis of what I understand for the customer M1A (or Mk 1 to some) in 1965, from this thread and from what I have gathered looking around :

20-01 Coombs for G. Hill, then Entin end of 65 season
20-02 / 20-03 / 20-04 probably for Vögele / Coundley / Heimrath according to the dates of first racing appearance ?
20-05 Pabst
20-06 Salyer
20-07 Macon
20-08 Gates
20-09 Hollywood Sports Car (not raced in 1965)
20-10 Wintersteen
20-11 / 20-12 probably the Nickey car (for Hayes) and the AAR car ?
20-13 Prophet then Olthoff for 1966
20-14 Goth
20-15 Starkey

That makes 15 customer M1As I have found racing in 1965, when it is widely accepted Trojan built 24 customer cars. I am more than willing to admit I could I have missed some racing in less covered scenes (far east, stricly local SCCA regionals....) but 9 cars in the obscure seems vey much for expensive front-line racers.

I have not yet look in details into 1966, but the first customer M1Bs were apparently racing as early as april.

Over to you.


#230 David McKinney

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Posted 15 November 2009 - 15:57

I can’t add to that

The only others I can find racing in 1965 are Alan Brown’s UK car and the one Phil Sitz raced in Canada. Bringing in 1966 gives a few more names, though it’s not clear how many of those might have been in M1Bs


#231 ERault

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Posted 15 November 2009 - 16:39

Thank you David. Could you tell us more ? Who was driving the Alan Brown's car and when was it first seen ? Regarding Phil Sitz (or is it Seitz ?), I only have him with an Elva and Lotus 23 around that time.

#232 Allen Brown

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Posted 15 November 2009 - 17:34

Great list ERault. Eoin Young's 1971 book on Bruce McLaren said that Trojan built 24 M1As but there may be an earlier source.

The other possibility is that Trojan counted chassis, not complete cars, and some of the extra chassis were used to rebuild crashed cars. However, I agree with you that 10 missing is far too many to be explained by SCCA Regionals.

Trojan wouldn't the first sports racing car constructor to exaggerate their production run and certainly not the last. I have gone into the M10As in quite a lot of detail and can only find 15, not the claimed 17. In that case, the two missing cars may well have become early M10Bs.



#233 Jerry Entin

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 01:45

Posted Image
Leonard Janke and his McLaren Mk 3
This is from the June Sprints in 1968 at Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin. It is the ex Skip Scott car from 1967. It was sold to Leonard Janke by Carl Haas.

photo : Tom Schultz - copyright - Tom Schultz 2009

Edited by Jerry Entin, 30 December 2009 - 15:24.


#234 johnbladon

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 09:11

The Rosso Bianco museum also had an M1A in the black/silver colour scheme as in post 216. I assume it was a replica of the works car; anyone have any ideas?
Also when I was there, (in 2002 and without a camera, unfortunately) they had a Lola T70 spyder with what looked like brand new plain white bodywork. I couldn't get close enough for a good look. Was this all it seemed to be? (sorry to drift o/t)
Alan

This car is 20-10 Wintersteen
regards John Bladon


#235 johnbladon

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 09:31

It would be nice to know the chassis Nos of the cars in the photos. The white car is the exBob Rose car as mentioned in my earlier thread. I should have asked John Bladon when |I saw him on Sunday.

It's 20-07 Ted.
cheers john

#236 johnbladon

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 09:54

...where WAS the Trojan factory ??

Gary,
I believe the m1as were built at the Elva factory in Rye and production of the later cars was transferred to the Trojan works in Slough.
regards John Bladon

#237 ERault

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 20:12

I have had a look at the 1966 season. First of all, the M1A. I'll be back for the M1B later.

20-01 still with Entin
20-XX the Vögele car : I have not found it in 1966, but I have no access to detailed records for the hillclimbs. Vögele bought a Porsche 906 and went endurance racing for 1966. Maybe the M1A was sold or kept for national events. A strange car was apparently spot at the 1967 Targa Florio and could be the ex-Vögele M1A. See : http://www.autodiva.... (middle of the page)
20-XX the Coundley car : retained
20-XX the Heimrath car : probably still the M1A at the USRRC Laguna Seca (may 8), then replaced with a new M1B
20-05 destroyed
20-06 still with Salyer
20-07 I have no record of Macon after the 1966 Daytona 24 Hours. M1A either sold or racing in regional SCCA
20-08 still with Gates
20-09 still Hollywood Sports Car (M1B bodywork apparently)
20-10 sold (Wintersteen put his trust in a Corvette GS)
20-XX the Nickey car for Hayes : sold to Jim Linen for Muther to drive
20-XX the AAR car : probably sold
20-13 still with Prophet, then Olthoff end of the year (date unclear)
20-14 still with Goth (M1B bodywork)
20-15 probably sold, Starkey is said to have bought a new M1B

New drivers seen in M1A in 1966 :
Cordts (owner Dave Billes), with Chinook bodywork at the end of the season
Tinglestad (owner Joe Lucy) seen at the Monterey GP CanAm
Billy Foster seen at Nassau
maybe Lerch, racing a McLaren-Ford at the St Jovite CanAm, which could probably be the ex-Heimrath car

Drivers in unknown McLaren (M1A or M1B) racing in 1966
Ron Courtney, DNQ at the Mosport CanAm
da Mota, Nassau
Aylward, Riverside AARC
Koveleski, Riverside AARC

Corrections most welcome !


#238 RA Historian

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 20:31

I have had a look at the 1966 season. First of all, the M1A. I'll be back for the M1B later.

20-06 still with Salyer destroyed at Riverside USRRC, April, 1966

Drivers in unknown McLaren (M1A or M1B) racing in 1966
Ron Courtney, DNQ at the Mosport CanAmHad M1A in 1966, retained early 1967 (saw it run at Wilmot Hills, May, 1967) before replacing it later in 1967 with an M1B. That car replaced in 1968 with an M1C

Corrections most welcome !


Tom

#239 ERault

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 14:25

Thank you Tom. So that is a M1A for Ron Courtney in 1966. Meanwhile I found this : http://www.davewolin.com/chinook.htm where Dave Wolin remembers buying a wrecked M1A from Candido da Mota. I think Da Mota then bought a M1C, but it is save to assume that he raced the (not yet wrecked) M1A at Nassau in 1966.

So, of the cars I know of, that leaves Bobby Aylward and Oscar Koveleski, both seen at the 1966 season closing American Road of Champions, to check between M1A or M1B.



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#240 RA Historian

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 18:24

So, of the cars I know of, that leaves Bobby Aylward and Oscar Koveleski, both seen at the 1966 season closing American Road of Champions, to check between M1A or M1B.

Don't quote me 100% on this, but I do believe that the car that Aylward used to win the July, 1966, race at Ponca City, Oklahoma, was an M1B. I was in Oklahoma City, 50 miles south, that day on TDY duty with the US Army. Couldn't get to the race; I know, so close and yet so far. At any rate, my recollection is seeing a photo in the next day's Oklahoma City Bugle, or whatever the local rag was called, and it was of Aylward in an M1B.

Perhaps Willem Oosthoek, who is researching a book about sports car racing in the south and southwest in that era, has more definitive info in his research.

Tom

#241 ERault

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 15:00

New drivers seen in M1A in 1966 :
Cordts (owner Dave Billes), with Chinook bodywork at the end of the season
Tinglestad (owner Joe Lucy) seen at the Monterey GP CanAm
Billy Foster seen at Nassau
maybe Lerch, racing a McLaren-Ford at the St Jovite CanAm, which could probably be the ex-Heimrath car


I have found a picture of Lerch at St Jovite for the 1966 CanAm. It was in fact a M1B, light colored body with a lenghtwise tricolor stripe.

#242 ERault

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 14:49

Don't quote me 100% on this, but I do believe that the car that Aylward used to win the July, 1966, race at Ponca City, Oklahoma, was an M1B. I was in Oklahoma City, 50 miles south, that day on TDY duty with the US Army. Couldn't get to the race; I know, so close and yet so far. At any rate, my recollection is seeing a photo in the next day's Oklahoma City Bugle, or whatever the local rag was called, and it was of Aylward in an M1B.


Tom, the 3 july 1966 Ponca City race was indeed won by a M1B, but it was Bud Morley's. Competition Press report does not mention Aylward being there. If it is ok with you, I leave that one with a question mark between M1A or M1B.

#243 ERault

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 15:02

I know I am at risk of talking to myself, but for what it's worth here is what I have found on the customer M1B racing in 1966. Very few chassis numbers are available, so I have tried to list the other cars in order of first appearance I know of.

30-01 Hayes april, Las Vegas USRRC
then sold to Alderman for Lunger (Nassau 1966)
30-03 Motschenbacher april, Las Vegas USRRC
30-05 Morley may, Riverside USRRC
30-09 Sheppard end of april Tourist Trophy
XX Stakey april, Las Vegas USRRC*
XX Roe april, Las Vegas USRRC
XX Alan Brown for Gardner end of april Tourist Trophy
XX O'Keiff may, Riverside USRRC
XX Amick may, Laguna USRRC
XX Heimrath end of may, Labatts 50 St Jovite**
XX Fuller july Galveston
XX Cannon july Pepsi Trophy St Jovite
XX Drummond for Scott july Britsh GP ***
XX Drummond for Revson july Britsh GP ***
XX Hilton for Parsons end of july Kent USRRC
XXor30-03 Motschenbacher end of august Mid-Ohio USRRC****
XX Dick Brown (Ecurie Green) end of august Mid-Ohio USRRC
XX Doran end of august Mid-Ohio USRRC
XX Posey sept St Jovite CanAm
XX Lerch sept St Jovite CanAm
XX Pacesetter for Gregory sept St Jovite CanAm
XX Hayes for Earl Jones sept Mosport CanAm
XX Bill Haenelt for sale in april 67, "one race in 1966"

* Starkey won the Polar Prix at Green Valley on february 13 in a McLaren-Chevy. I don't know if it was his new M1B or the M1A with a new engine.

** I first thought Heimrath still had the M1A at the 1966 Laguna Seca USRRC (from a photo guess work) but I since read the M1A was destroyed at the end of 1965 season Laguna race. So it may have been the M1B already at the 1966 Laguna USRRC. It was the M1B for sure at the end of may at St Jovite.

*** One of Drummond's McLaren-Ford M1B was 30-12.

**** Motschenbacher switched from Oldsmobile power in a grey car to a Chevy in a Nickey / Blocker car. I don't know if this is a new car or a new paint job and engine for 30-03.

So that could make at least 22 or 23 cars, depending on the Motschenbacher situation.
The British scene is very muddy for me. I am not quite sure if Prophet only had his M1A or if he bought a new M1B as well. I don't kown if Alan Brown had one or two cars. That could make 2 more cars, so 25.
Then there are the 2 mystery cars of Aylward and Koveleski. Maybe two more depending on these two being M1A or M1B.
So, at the very most, that could make up to 27 M1B. The "official" number is 28 customer cars.



#244 RA Historian

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 17:47

Tom, the 3 july 1966 Ponca City race was indeed won by a M1B, but it was Bud Morley's. Competition Press report does not mention Aylward being there. If it is ok with you, I leave that one with a question mark between M1A or M1B.

Ahhh, you are so right! See what happens when one relies on memory rather than digging though old magazines to look it up! At least I was right on the M1B part!
Tom

#245 RA Historian

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 17:53

**** Motschenbacher switched from Oldsmobile power in a grey car to a Chevy in a Nickey / Blocker car. I don't know if this is a new car or a new paint job and engine for 30-03.

My understanding is that it was the same car. Early in 1966 Lothar ran his rather unsponsored car in a gray/silver paint job. Then, in the fall, he picked up some sponsorship from Nickey and Dan Blocker. He ran with white livery accented by Nickey purple for a few races and then, I seem to recall, the car was painted completely purple for the last race or two of the season. Besides sponsoring the Dan Blocker Genie Mk 10, Nickey also sponsored Charlie Hayes, and as a result there were at least three Nickey/Blocker cars in the fall of 1966.

#246 Jerry Entin

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 14:35

Posted Image
Augie Pabst at Continental Divide Raceway
This was taken August 15, 1965

photo- Ron Shaw
copyright 2009- Ron Shaw

Edited by Jerry Entin, 11 December 2009 - 14:48.


#247 Jerry Entin

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 15:17

Posted Image
Ex Joe Lucy owned McLaren Mk 1
This is at Willow Springs in a club race, the race was run in the wet. Jerry Entin is driving the car. I had to start last as I wasn't at the track on Saturday. Race won by Jim Adams in the Hollywood Sportscar McLaren. I finished 2nd. Car was painted Nassau Blue in this picture.
Posted Image
Jay Hills at Phoenix in 1967, Jerry Entin in the Joe Lucy owned Mk 1 McLaren coming up behind him.

Joe Lucy brought this car to Phoenix and Jerry Entin drove it to second place behind Jay Hills in his Roy Campbell prepared McLaren Mk 2. The car was Yellow at Phoenix when Joe Lucy brought it there. Jerry Entin was given this car to sell after the race and I bought it for my brother Hershey to do his driving school days in it. Joe Lucy was a very fine person.

The car had a stock 327 cu in. engine, It had 4 American 2 barrel carbs on it. They were called Stromberg 97's. It was a very low horsepower engine compared to the Traco units of the day.

This car was later sold to a fellow in South America. It later came back and I bought it back. I put a new floor on it and had it repainted bright red. I sold it with a Hewland LG500 and exhaust and all the hardware minus engine for $2,500. Wish I had kept it.

Edited by Jerry Entin, 12 December 2009 - 05:17.


#248 RA Historian

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 15:47

I sold it with a Hewland LG500 and exhaust and all the hardware minus engine for $2,500. Wish I had kept it.

Omigosh. Can you imagine, in the context of today's prices, such a race car going for only $2500? If we knew then what we know now.... Heck, back in 1965 I was a brand new 2nd Lt. in the Army and even I had $2500...to think I could have bought it! Of course, don't know exactly what I would have done with it, but it would have looked very sharp parked next to the BOQ!

Back to the subject: Jerry, wasn't this the car that Coombs entered for Graham Hill at Riverside in 1965?

Tom

#249 Jerry Entin

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 04:55

Posted Image
Graham Hill in the John Coombs owned McLaren Mk 1 at Brands Hatch in 1965

Posted Image
Car is now owned by Harry Mathews.
This was the car Graham Hill drove in 1965

Tom: This was a completely different car. The car that Joe Lucy had, was Chevy 327 powered and had a Hewland LG500 gearbox.

The car I bought from John Coombs that Graham Hill raced at Riverside in 1965, had a Hewland HD gearbox and a Traco Olds engine.

Edited by Jerry Entin, 12 December 2009 - 23:27.


#250 ERault

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 23:17

Jerry, how many McLaren did you own / race ?!
- 20-01 M1A ex-Hill in 1966
- another M1A ex-Joe Lucy debut 1967
- a M1B ex-Drummond Racing for the rest of 1967
The report in Competition Press for the 1967 april 2 Tucson National add to this a new M1C Chevy - Is this accurate ?


Meanwhile, it's time to have a look at the 1967 season. First lets check what happened to the M1A. Still seen racing were :
20-09 - Hollywood Sports Car for Adams
20-13 - ex-Prophet with Olthoff
Ron Courtney's car until he bought a M1B mid-season
the 1966 Dave Billes car for Cordts until a new M1C arrived mid-season
the 1966 Joe Lucy car, sold debut 1967 to Entin

Only two new faces driving M1A in 1967, the car becoming quite old I suppose :
Gunnarsson in Sweden (the car was promptly destroyed by fire) before he bough the M1B
Heini Walter and Köcher with a rather mysterious DNS at the Targa Florio

Out of the picture by 1967 were :
20-XX the Heimrath car – destroyed at the end of 1965 season
20-05 – Pabst – destroyed in 1965
20-06 – Salyer – destroyed in 1966

Cars of unknown fate in 1967 :
20-01 – Entin in 1965-66 – unknown in 1967
20-XX the Vögele car –maybe the Heini Walter / Köcher car DNS at the Targa ?
20-XX the Coundley car – unknown in 1967 – maybe sold to Gunnarsson ?
20-07 – last known with Macon in 1965
20-08 - Gates in 1965-66 - unknown then
20-10 - Wintersteen in 1965 - unknown then
20-XX the Nickey car for Hayes in 1965, Jim Linen for Muther in 1966 - unknown 1967
20-XX the AAR car in 1965 - unknown then
20-14 - Goth in 1965-66 - unknown in 1967
20-15 - Starkey in 1965 - unknown then
Billy Foster's car in 1966 – unknown in 1967

If you think this is muddy, wait for the M1B/M1C guesswork !