Does anyone know if any F1 teams use people or ideas from the drag racing industry. It seems like getting the cars moving is an afterthought of the design process, especially Jaguar!
I would think that if an F1 car was given to some drag race team that they would have the car launching much faster than any of the current cars. Also with all the electronics in an F1 car transmission I think the mechanical compromises needed for fast starts could be overcome.
Is this what BAR have done to get JV's starts so good?
Drag Racing technology and know how in F1?
Started by
IndyIan
, Aug 03 2000 15:36
6 replies to this topic
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#2
TNSFH
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Posted 03 August 2000 - 16:17
In Top Fuel and Funny cars there really is no transmission. What they use is a clutch pack that works on centrifical force and is shifted by soliniods. By using differant spring tension the cars will slip the clutches to reduce tire spin or in the case of a surface with a lot of grip the spring tension will be lowered so that it locks up sooner. There is no shifting, just dump the clutch at the light and hopefully the clutch man guessed right for the track condition. So completely differant that I don't think there is a crossover in the technology.
With more and more electronics coming in to all of motor racing, it seems a difficult task to police what the programers can come up with. The teams probably spend as much time on motor research as the do on computer mapping. Pretty soon the driver will just be along to point the car in the right direction.
With more and more electronics coming in to all of motor racing, it seems a difficult task to police what the programers can come up with. The teams probably spend as much time on motor research as the do on computer mapping. Pretty soon the driver will just be along to point the car in the right direction.
#3
IndyIan
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Posted 03 August 2000 - 18:59
TNSFH,
Are you sure that funny cars don't change ratios atleast once down the strip? Sounds a bit fishy to me, 0 to 300 mph in one gear? I know the increase in tire diameter helps a bit.
I was thinking more about the lower levels of drag racing, where they shift gears, etc. Those guys probably know alot about clutch set up, throttle position tricks.
Are you sure that funny cars don't change ratios atleast once down the strip? Sounds a bit fishy to me, 0 to 300 mph in one gear? I know the increase in tire diameter helps a bit.
I was thinking more about the lower levels of drag racing, where they shift gears, etc. Those guys probably know alot about clutch set up, throttle position tricks.
#4
TNSFH
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Posted 04 August 2000 - 13:51
Indy,
Just a Pnumatic activated Clutch pack on the Top Fuel and Funny cars.
In the other types of cars the trannies are striaght cut gears with a differant shifter for each gear and shifted without a clutch. Once they leave the light and shift out of first gear the trannies can't be shifted down, only up.
On some cars they run a modified GM two speed automatic trannie that is shifted manualy and all kinds of electronic gagitry that stutters the ignition so that they don't break out of their dial-in time.
One posibility on the F1 cars is the stuttering of the ignition to limit wheel spin? But you would be able to hear this on launch. I believe that the pit limit switch would be the best way to start if that is what some of them might be doing. Keeping the RPM's set against the rev-limiter at the start to keep from spinning the wheels. I don't have any idea if there is telemitry to tell the officails if someone is doing this or not?
I know enough about electronics to get myself in trouble and that's about it.
Just a Pnumatic activated Clutch pack on the Top Fuel and Funny cars.
In the other types of cars the trannies are striaght cut gears with a differant shifter for each gear and shifted without a clutch. Once they leave the light and shift out of first gear the trannies can't be shifted down, only up.
On some cars they run a modified GM two speed automatic trannie that is shifted manualy and all kinds of electronic gagitry that stutters the ignition so that they don't break out of their dial-in time.
One posibility on the F1 cars is the stuttering of the ignition to limit wheel spin? But you would be able to hear this on launch. I believe that the pit limit switch would be the best way to start if that is what some of them might be doing. Keeping the RPM's set against the rev-limiter at the start to keep from spinning the wheels. I don't have any idea if there is telemitry to tell the officails if someone is doing this or not?
I know enough about electronics to get myself in trouble and that's about it.
#5
Tigalola
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Posted 05 August 2000 - 05:38
TNSFH is right about the single speed transmissions used in Top Fuel Dragsters and Funny Cars. However, I think they could use this technology in F1. Since the clutch is steering wheel activated it must have a electronic interface, so the engineers could pre-program the engagement of the clutch much like the NHRA Crew chiefs do in drag racing. The only difference is using electronics instead of pneumatic timers to control the clutch. I would think it was a driver aid, but the almighty FIA may think otherwise. Then again I think the computer blipping the throttle on downsifts is illegal.
#6
Yelnats
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Posted 06 August 2000 - 17:25
I am sure F1 has benifitted behind the scenes from many drag raceing techniques but recent rulings from the FIA have severly limited how much of this technology can be used. I have heard stories of two stage clutches being used in a starting and lockup mode but secrecy has limited how much of this we hear about.
But with the recent introduction of narrow grooved tires and very limited passing oportunities the start has become very critical, especially with the recent approval of kamakazi-like starting techniques and it's disasterous effects on the second row racers.
Interestingly we have seen some big moves from the back of the grid since the close monitoring of launch software which illustrates how effecive some of these aids must have been in past starts (probably for the last decade). I am sure the boffins are scrambling for any help they can get and will glean any mechanical techniques that drag racing can offer.
But with the recent introduction of narrow grooved tires and very limited passing oportunities the start has become very critical, especially with the recent approval of kamakazi-like starting techniques and it's disasterous effects on the second row racers.
Interestingly we have seen some big moves from the back of the grid since the close monitoring of launch software which illustrates how effecive some of these aids must have been in past starts (probably for the last decade). I am sure the boffins are scrambling for any help they can get and will glean any mechanical techniques that drag racing can offer.
#7
IndyIan
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Posted 14 August 2000 - 18:10
Yelnats,
I'm from Peterborough, Ontario. Small world eh.
I think that having two stage clutches should be legal as long as the driver has to switch modes manually.
I don't actually know if it is legal, I guess I'll have to read the F1 rule book.
It seems McLaren and Hakkinen have figured out a good system for starts. Two "once in a season" starts in a row has a pretty low chance of happening. Also Mika's talk about the team "optimizing" the car for the starts sounds like they have a system to help him out.
I'm from Peterborough, Ontario. Small world eh.
I think that having two stage clutches should be legal as long as the driver has to switch modes manually.
I don't actually know if it is legal, I guess I'll have to read the F1 rule book.
It seems McLaren and Hakkinen have figured out a good system for starts. Two "once in a season" starts in a row has a pretty low chance of happening. Also Mika's talk about the team "optimizing" the car for the starts sounds like they have a system to help him out.
