I own the only rear engined Scarab grand prix car. This car raced once, in Australia, in 1962. The GM Traco V-8 engine was removed and is believed to still be in Australia. I have seen mention that it is in a Maserati sport racer. Can anyone put me in touch with the owner or give me any info regarding the engine? Does anyone remember the race at Sandown in 1962? The car placed 4th in the Formula Continental Race.
Scarab rear engined grand prix car-Traco engine sought
Started by
WRCOTTER
, Apr 26 2005 03:45
20 replies to this topic
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#2
Ray Bell
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Posted 26 April 2005 - 11:53
Formula Libre race... diced with Stirling Moss in a Lotus with FPF Climax for the whole race... no, I didn't see it.
The engine was sold to either Arnold Glass to stick into his BRM or to Bib Stillwell to put in his Cooper Monaco. It's quite possible that one of them or it, depending on the true facts, made its way into the Rennmax that Ross Ambrose ran, but I rather think that car had an Olds Traco.
Fact is, these things followed such a convoluted trail after the BRM ended its days and the Cooper Monaco stopped running that it would be very hard to track them down.
But somebody will know... maybe a mention in The Oily Rag would get a result? That's the club magazine of the Historic Sports & Racing Car Association in Sydney.
Ross Ambrose, on the other hand, can probably be contacted via his son, Marcus Ambrose, who races currently.
The engine was sold to either Arnold Glass to stick into his BRM or to Bib Stillwell to put in his Cooper Monaco. It's quite possible that one of them or it, depending on the true facts, made its way into the Rennmax that Ross Ambrose ran, but I rather think that car had an Olds Traco.
Fact is, these things followed such a convoluted trail after the BRM ended its days and the Cooper Monaco stopped running that it would be very hard to track them down.
But somebody will know... maybe a mention in The Oily Rag would get a result? That's the club magazine of the Historic Sports & Racing Car Association in Sydney.
Ross Ambrose, on the other hand, can probably be contacted via his son, Marcus Ambrose, who races currently.
#3
WRCOTTER
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Posted 26 April 2005 - 19:43
Ray, thanks for the info. The Traco engine in the Scarab was probably an Olds. I am still on the hunt.
#4
Gerr
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Posted 26 April 2005 - 20:07
Glass referred to the engine as a Traco-Buick.
His advert is in the thread "Arnold Glass and his BRM P48"
His advert is in the thread "Arnold Glass and his BRM P48"
#5
Ray Bell
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Posted 26 April 2005 - 21:28
And Stillwell's car became the 'Cooper Buick'...
So what engine did the Scarab have? A Buick!
So what engine did the Scarab have? A Buick!
#6
275 GTB-4
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Posted 28 April 2005 - 08:52
Originally posted by Ray Bell
But somebody will know... maybe a mention in The Oily Rag would get a result? That's the club magazine of the Historic Sports & Racing Car Association in Sydney.
HSRCA Website....http://www.hsrca.org.au/
#7
Haydn
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Posted 28 April 2005 - 10:03
Hi. I am new to this forum but have watched with interest many memories from the 60's Motor Racing in Australia return as clear as yesterday. I felt I had to put this info forward as it may be helpful in solving the riddle of the Scarab engine.
I was at Sandown in 1962 standing 1 row back on the entry to the main straight when Daigh, Moss, Brabham etc. hammered past so I can remember well the thumping roar of the Scarab engine.
I heard the same noise again in 1965 when Bib Stillwell, Alan Jones and Bob Jane ran a demo handicap at Calder. The Cooper Monaco had in fact been fitted with the Scarab engine. The capacity was listed as 3900cc and the car was entered as a "Monaco Buick". The programme for the meeting noted that the engine did in fact come from Lance Reventlow's Scarab with a horsepower rating of 310 b.h.p.
Hope this is of assistance.
Haydn M.
I was at Sandown in 1962 standing 1 row back on the entry to the main straight when Daigh, Moss, Brabham etc. hammered past so I can remember well the thumping roar of the Scarab engine.
I heard the same noise again in 1965 when Bib Stillwell, Alan Jones and Bob Jane ran a demo handicap at Calder. The Cooper Monaco had in fact been fitted with the Scarab engine. The capacity was listed as 3900cc and the car was entered as a "Monaco Buick". The programme for the meeting noted that the engine did in fact come from Lance Reventlow's Scarab with a horsepower rating of 310 b.h.p.
Hope this is of assistance.
Haydn M.
#8
David Birchall
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Posted 28 April 2005 - 17:02
There was a Buick/Olds engine for sale in Autoweek some while back. It was reputed to be "Ex-Scarab" and had a special short stroke crank to bring the capacity down to 2.5 litres. It was in N.America though.
David B
David B
#9
WRCOTTER
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Posted 28 April 2005 - 17:08
David thanks for your info. When was the Autoweek ad?
#10
David Birchall
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Posted 28 April 2005 - 18:13
A long time ago. But these things don't disappear-I'll try to dig it up.
David B
David B
#11
Ray Bell
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Posted 28 April 2005 - 23:21
Originally posted by Haydn
Hi. I am new to this forum but have watched with interest many memories from the '60s Motor Racing in Australia return as clear as yesterday.....
And why, pray tell, have you taken so long to add your insight? I don't think anyone has ever posted here before who saw the Scarab race!
All contributions are welcome... as are you...
.....I felt I had to put this info forward as it may be helpful in solving the riddle of the Scarab engine.
I was at Sandown in 1962 standing 1 row back on the entry to the main straight when Daigh, Moss, Brabham etc. hammered past so I can remember well the thumping roar of the Scarab engine.
I heard the same noise again in 1965 when Bib Stillwell, Alan Jones and Bob Jane ran a demo handicap at Calder. The Cooper Monaco had in fact been fitted with the Scarab engine. The capacity was listed as 3900cc and the car was entered as a "Monaco Buick". The programme for the meeting noted that the engine did in fact come from Lance Reventlow's Scarab with a horsepower rating of 310 b.h.p.
Undoubtedly this is of assistance, it confirms the source of Stillwell's engine (which I had only posted from memory...) but raises yet another question (or three) :
Alan Jones or Stan Jones? What was Jane driving? Is this race covered in Racing Car News, and what meeting was it at?
The 2.5 engine... I remember something about that... but details are unclear. Of course, Phil and the boys did much the same later on...
#12
Haydn
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Posted 29 April 2005 - 12:10
Thanks for the welcome Ray.
First let me say that I am not a motoring historian but somebody who followed (and competed in for a few years) Australian Motor Racing in the 60's. I intend to contribute to any threads of which I have some knowledge.
The reason I remember this particular race with the Scarab was that I got such a good spectating position I was able to have a mostly uninterrupted view of some of the best drivers in the world racing for the first time in Australia at the newly built Sandown Circuit.
Incidentally the Scarab had the lowest and longest exhausts (one each side) I have ever seen on an rear engined open wheeler. Perhaps someone could start a thread on that?
The questions you raised re the "demo" race at Calder was not 1965 as I posted (oops) but November 15th 1964. Not sure whether RCN covered it in detail but I imagine it did (usually had high standard of reporting - take a bow) but I do not have a copy of RCN for this time. If you have Australian Motor Sports for Jan 25 1965 see pages 56 and 57 for the answers to your questions together with a good photo of Alan (son of Stan) having what might have been his first drive of an open wheeler in "circuit competition".
....Stillwell - Monaco Buick....Jones - Cooper Climax....Jane - Elfin Mono (was listed in program to drive Lotus Cortina).
I like the AMS description of the Monaco's power...."the Monaco would streak down the straight so fast it might have been flying"....
Cheers
HaydnM
First let me say that I am not a motoring historian but somebody who followed (and competed in for a few years) Australian Motor Racing in the 60's. I intend to contribute to any threads of which I have some knowledge.
The reason I remember this particular race with the Scarab was that I got such a good spectating position I was able to have a mostly uninterrupted view of some of the best drivers in the world racing for the first time in Australia at the newly built Sandown Circuit.
Incidentally the Scarab had the lowest and longest exhausts (one each side) I have ever seen on an rear engined open wheeler. Perhaps someone could start a thread on that?
The questions you raised re the "demo" race at Calder was not 1965 as I posted (oops) but November 15th 1964. Not sure whether RCN covered it in detail but I imagine it did (usually had high standard of reporting - take a bow) but I do not have a copy of RCN for this time. If you have Australian Motor Sports for Jan 25 1965 see pages 56 and 57 for the answers to your questions together with a good photo of Alan (son of Stan) having what might have been his first drive of an open wheeler in "circuit competition".
....Stillwell - Monaco Buick....Jones - Cooper Climax....Jane - Elfin Mono (was listed in program to drive Lotus Cortina).
I like the AMS description of the Monaco's power...."the Monaco would streak down the straight so fast it might have been flying"....
Cheers
HaydnM
#13
WRCOTTER
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Posted 29 April 2005 - 23:11
You guys are great! I have now narrowed the search to a Buick only. It had been listed at various times as a 2.5 and a 3.0 litre engine. These were easily enlarged to over 4 litres. I'm getting the car ready for Goodwood and I want to be correct.
#14
Ray Bell
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Posted 29 April 2005 - 23:20
Especially the back of it...
Mossy will be there, he was very familiar with that part!
As the car was built for the near-stillborn FIntercontinental, I recall that there was a production engine component of that formula and it was obviously built to suit that. 4-litres, IIRC?
Long, low exhaust pipes, eh? As long and low as the first DFVs?
Mossy will be there, he was very familiar with that part!
As the car was built for the near-stillborn FIntercontinental, I recall that there was a production engine component of that formula and it was obviously built to suit that. 4-litres, IIRC?
Long, low exhaust pipes, eh? As long and low as the first DFVs?
#15
D-Type
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Posted 29 April 2005 - 23:49
Go for 4 litres. it'll be in keeping with all the 2 litre BRM's, 1300 and 1500 Lotus XIs, 1275 A35s, 1460 Bobtails, 2 litre ERAs, etcOriginally posted by WRCOTTER
You guys are great! I have now narrowed the search to a Buick only. It had been listed at various times as a 2.5 and a 3.0 litre engine. These were easily enlarged to over 4 litres. I'm getting the car ready for Goodwood and I want to be correct.
#16
Ray Bell
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Posted 30 April 2005 - 00:01
It was definitely 3.9 litres when it ran, so that's the right thing to do...
#17
D-Type
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Posted 30 April 2005 - 00:13
Sorry. Don't take me seriously - it's Friday and I'm feeling jaded. This isn't the place to discuss originality.
As Ray says, as it ran as a 3.9 in period that's the way to go.
As Ray says, as it ran as a 3.9 in period that's the way to go.
#18
Catalina Park
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Posted 30 April 2005 - 11:47
Get a P76 block. They started out at 4.4 litres and you can take it to 5 ;)
#19
Ray Bell
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Posted 10 May 2005 - 04:02
Enough of this shilly shallying... let's get down to some John Ellacott pictures!
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#20
Ray Bell
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Posted 10 May 2005 - 04:11
And we see now why Haydn's recollection of the exhaust pipes was so outstanding...
There are tiny mufflers stuck on the end of the pipes! Sandown required mufflers on all cars, something I'd stuck in the dim dark recesses and not located for several years. Every Tasman race there saw teams sticking make-believe (well, nobody said they had to work!) mufflers on their cars.
For those who want to access a more complete version of John's historic pic... try this...
For the record, it's Bill Patterson in the white and blue Cooper, Austen Miller in the yellow one. Did that also have a V8 by that time?
There are tiny mufflers stuck on the end of the pipes! Sandown required mufflers on all cars, something I'd stuck in the dim dark recesses and not located for several years. Every Tasman race there saw teams sticking make-believe (well, nobody said they had to work!) mufflers on their cars.
For those who want to access a more complete version of John's historic pic... try this...
For the record, it's Bill Patterson in the white and blue Cooper, Austen Miller in the yellow one. Did that also have a V8 by that time?
#21
Ray Bell
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Posted 11 May 2005 - 06:28
While we're on this case, maybe someone would like to know which other photographers took photos at the meeting...
Well, here's a bit of background from the pic of the drivers' briefing that I posted on the 'most champions in a single pic' thread. Who knows the photographer/s in this shot?
I reckon I know the bloke on the left...
Well, here's a bit of background from the pic of the drivers' briefing that I posted on the 'most champions in a single pic' thread. Who knows the photographer/s in this shot?
I reckon I know the bloke on the left...
