32 replies to this topic

[Barry Boor]

Trust me on this one, I'm not 'avin' a larf.... In the 1950 non-championship Pescara Grand Prix, won by Fangio in an Alfa 158 from Rosier's Talbot-Lago and Fagioli in another Alfa, a non-finisher was one ADOLFO SCHWELM in a Jaguar XK120 !!!

Now come on, is somebody having us on, or what.....

[Wolf]

As is my wont, I do not have anything really clever to say, but just now I've seen this pop up elsewhere, and I'd think Barry might find it interesting (early version of Pescara for GPL released) : http://forum.rscnet....ad.php?t=189590 . Cheers.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Trust me on this one, I'm not 'avin' a larf.... In the 1950 non-championship Pescara Grand Prix, won by Fangio in an Alfa 158 from Rosier's Talbot-Lago and Fagioli in another Alfa, a non-finisher was one ADOLFO SCHWELM in a Jaguar XK120 !!!

Now come on, is somebody having us on, or what.....

Why not?

It was under 4.5 litres, unsupercharged and had four wheels!

It's possible they removed the guards, of course.

[Vitesse2]

A well-known Scottish TNF contributor and BARC member came third in the 1951 Scottish GP in an XK120 Barry.

It was one of four XK120s entered (two started) and he was beaten by Philip Fotheringham-Parker's Maserati 4CLT/48 and Gillie Tyrer's BMW 328! The latter is an even more unlikely F1 car ....

Tyrer was only 7.4 seconds down on Fotheringham-Parker after 100 miles but the Maserati had lost virtually all its oil pressure!

[Barry Boor]

I cannot really say why but that feels somewhat less bizarre than an XK.120 racing against the Alfa works team at Pescara.

Well done I.S, though; if 'tis he....

[alessandro silva]

Barry, I think that your information is correct, but I vainly tried to find a photograph of Schwelm at Pescara.

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
A well-known Scottish TNF contributor and BARC member came third in the 1951 Scottish GP in an XK120 Barry.

It was one of four XK120s entered (two started) and he was beaten by Philip Fotheringham-Parker's Maserati 4CLT/48 and Gillie Tyrer's BMW 328! The latter is an even more unlikely F1 car ....

Tyrer was only 7.4 seconds down on Fotheringham-Parker after 100 miles but the Maserati had lost virtually all its oil pressure!

Is that the race at Winfield on 21 July? i didn't know it was the Scottish Grand Prix. At that meeting, Tyrer won the formula 2 race and a Lea Francis. I don't think Scuderia Ferrari were entered.

[Vitesse2]

That's the one, Roger. See Sheldon Vol 5 p107.

Among the DNAs were "Wilkie" Wilkinson and Fred Ashmore in ERAs, Reg Parnell in the BRM type 15 (he raced an HWM instead) and Duncan Hamilton (who had two entries, but only one car!). Other oddities included Rob Dickson's Healey and Bill Skelly's Lea-Francis.

I agree it's not quite the calibre of Pescara - it was more to demonstrate that it wasn't the only F1 race which featured an XK120.

[Paul Parker]

Just for the record 4 times Mille Miglia winner Clemente Biondetti ran a Jaguar XK120 engined Ferrari lookalike special in the 1950 Italian GP.

[condor]

I have a vague notion that the "Scottish Grand Prix" was a real misnomer. I think the event took place mid-season and therefore attracted a very poor entry. Winfield had another event in October which should have been the GP because it included S. Moss, Farina (Ferrari) and a number of Maseratis and ERAs. Proper GP cars, and unsurprisingly, Ian's heroic efforts only managed a 7th in his XK120 .

[D-Type]

Originally posted by Paul Parker
Just for the record 4 times Mille Miglia winner Clemente Biondetti ran a Jaguar XK120 engined Ferrari lookalike special in the 1950 Italian GP.

He also shared the back of the grid at Pescara according to Darren Galpin's site.

I think this special was a Ferrari 166 chassis with an XK 120 engine. The Jaguar-engined car he later ran in the Mille Miglia (1952?) was a different car with a specially built chassis.

Let's hope the new edition of Powered by Jaguar is affordable then w'll be able to know for sure.

[GIGLEUX]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
A well-known Scottish TNF contributor and BARC member came third in the 1951 Scottish GP in an XK120 Barry.

It was one of four XK120s entered (two started) and he was beaten by Philip Fotheringham-Parker's Maserati 4CLT/48 and Gillie Tyrer's BMW 328! The latter is an even more unlikely F1 car ....

Tyrer was only 7.4 seconds down on Fotheringham-Parker after 100 miles but the Maserati had lost virtually all its oil pressure!

But Foth'Parker drove a 4CL or a 6CM and not a 4CLT/48.

Ten cars started:
-A.J.Butterworth AJB
-D.Murray Maserati 4CLT/48
-J.Kelly Alta
-P.Fotheringham-Parker Laserati 4CL or 6CM
-G.Tyrer BMW MM
-R.Parnell HWM (the car of J.Brown)
-W.J.Skelly Lea-Francis
-I.Stewart Jaguar XK120
-J.G.Waugh Jaguar XK120
-R.Dickson Healey Silverstone

Results:
1.Fotheringham-Parker 50 laps 1h19min.27sec. 76 mph
2.Tyrer 1.19.34.4
3.Stewart 48 laps
4.Dickson 48 laps
5.Waugh 44 laps

Fastest lap: Kelly 1.29.2 80,75 mph

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by GIGLEUX

But Foth'Parker drove a 4CL or a 6CM and not a 4CLT/48.

Not a 4CLT/48, but possibly a 4CLT (ie, tube-framed 4CL). He had previously raced Hamilton's 6CM

[D-Type]

Searching the web for more details I found that the Dutch GP took place the day after with an entry of privateer Talbot Lagos, Ferraris and Maseratis plus the HWM works team. The clash could explain the poor entry at Winfield if the Dutch starting money was better.

Or was the Scottish GP title simply a bit of hype for what was really a National meeting?

[David McKinney]

Not a bit of hype - a lot of hype. If it ever was called the Scottish Grand Prix.
Autosport simply calls it a 100-mile Formula 1 race, in both its preview and the race report

[GIGLEUX]

The Autocar called it "Scottish Grand Prix" but in the results it is Racing cars, Grand Prix Formula 1.

The report started as following: "A new page was opened in Scottish motoring history last Sunday when the Winfield joint comittee, composed of representatives of the Berwick and District M.C., the Lothian Car Club (Edinburg) and the Hawick and Border C.and M.C.C., staged at the Winfield aerodrome circuit, in Berwickshire, the first national meeting ever to be held north of the Border...Inspired with the success of last Saturday's meeting may they go forward and plan an international event for season 1952!".

[David McKinney]

Was Scottish Grand Prix just in the heading, J-M?
If so, it could have been a sort of joke

[GIGLEUX]

Originally posted by David McKinney
Was Scottish Grand Prix just in the heading, J-M?
If so, it could have been a sort of joke

Yes David, just in the heading. I also understand it was a joke.

[terry mcgrath]

The brief history of this XK120 chassis no 660273 which survives in Ohio is as follows

670273 - W1491-8
registered in Coventry on 15 June 1950, and despatched from the works to Heath Booth & Co. the car was bought new by Argentinian racing driver Adolfo Schwelm who as a young man had been educated in England, and when back there in 1950, as he put it, had “bought a car from Lyons for $1,000.” Its UK registration expired on 30 June 1950 and Schwelm initially took it to Italy, to race at Pescara (on the Adriatic coast, east of Rome) on 15 August 1950. This was in a non-championship Formula 1 race won by the Argentinian Fangio in an Alfa Romeo, and in which Biondetti’s Ferrari based Jaguar engined special also raced. The XK120 recorded a flying kilometer at 214 kph, but retired. By late 1950, the car was in Argentina. It was raced at Rafaela in December 1950, in a rally Cazador en Escobar in March 1951, at Mar del Plata in July 1951, and at Mendoza City in September 1951.

I certainly would be keen to get pics of it racing at Pescara and a photocopy of programme but I also believe he raced it in the UK and in Sweden whilst on a holiday trough Europe interestingly the car which was silver arrived in Argentina painted a very dark colour! - accident maybe
regards terry

Edited by terry mcgrath, 10 August 2009 - 03:35.

[Graham Gauld]

The brief history of this XK120 chassis no 660273 which survives in Ohio is as follows

670273 - W1491-8
registered in Coventry on 15 June 1950, and despatched from the works to Heath Booth & Co. the car was bought new by Argentinian racing driver Adolfo Schwelm who as a young man had been educated in England, and when back there in 1950, as he put it, had “bought a car from Lyons for $1,000.” Its UK registration expired on 30 June 1950 and Schwelm initially took it to Italy, to race at Pescara (on the Adriatic coast, east of Rome) on 15 August 1950. This was in a non-championship Formula 1 race won by the Argentinian Fangio in an Alfa Romeo, and in which Biondetti’s Ferrari based Jaguar engined special also raced. The XK120 recorded a flying kilometer at 214 kph, but retired. By late 1950, the car was in Argentina. It was raced at Rafaela in December 1950, in a rally Cazador en Escobar in March 1951, at Mar del Plata in July 1951, and at Mendoza City in September 1951.

I certainly would be keen to get pics of it racing at Pescara and a photocopy of programme but I also believe he raced it in the UK and in Sweden whilst on a holiday trough Europe interestingly the car which was silver arrived in Argentina painted a very dark colour! - accident maybe
regards terry

Purely as an aside Adolfo Schwelm Cruz was later to race in the 1000kms in Argentina for Ecurie Ecosse. One of the conditions for letting Ecurie Ecosse enter the event was that one car had to be driven by Argentinian drivers. Ecosse therefore took three cars, two of their new C types with disc brakes and handed over an older drum brake car for Schwelm Cruz and Juan Schroeder.

[Tomas Karlsson]

I certainly would be keen to get pics of it racing at Pescara and a photocopy of programme but I also believe he raced it in the UK and in Sweden whilst on a holiday trough Europe interestingly the car which was silver arrived in Argentina painted a very dark colour! - accident maybe
regards terry

Well, not Sweden, but Finland. And not in that car. He raced an XK120 in the Djurgård park race in Helsinki on May 7th 1950. A race for Nordic specials and sportscars. Schwelm's wasn't the only XK120 in the field. The British military attaché in Stockholm, Michael Head, also started in his new Swedish-registered car.
Schwelm raced a Jaguar owned by the Argentinian ambassdor in Finland, Eduardo Crespo.
Head and Schwelm was 5th and 6th behind three Nordic specials.

Edited by Tomas Karlsson, 11 August 2009 - 07:51.

[Tomas Karlsson]

Well, not Sweden, but Finland. And not in that car. He raced an XK120 in the Djurgård park race in Helsinki on May 7th 1950. A race for Nordic specials and sportscars. Schwelm's wasn't the only XK120 in the field. The British military attaché in Stockholm, Michael Head, also started in his new Swedish-registered car.
Schwelm raced a Jaguar owned by the Argentinian ambassdor in Finland, Eduardo Crespo.
Head and Schwelm was 5th and 6th behind four Nordic specials.

I have to correct myself. There were three XK120s in the field. The Finnish veteran and former winner SPJ Keinänen had one too and he was the also the fastest, finishing in second place, 20 seconds behind behind Gunnar Carlsson's Ford special.

[wenoopy]

With due respect to the general incredulity at the appearance of the XK 120 Jaguar in the 1950 Pescara GP, the starting grid for the 1957 Naples (Formula 1) Grand Prix apparently included a 'closed vehicle', the Lancia-Marino of Mario Brandoli. I gather this was a Lancia Aurelia.

Like the four other non single-seater starters out of the 16, I presume it met the criterion of having an engine capacity of less than 2500 cc. For all I know, there may not have been many other restrictions in the 1954-1960 Formula. Fuel wasn't restricted until 1958, and Mercedes and Connaught tried all-enveloping bodywork, and Vanwall a perspex-encloed cockpit.

[Stephen W]

Like the four other non single-seater starters out of the 16, I presume it met the criterion of having an engine capacity of less than 2500 cc. For all I know, there may not have been many other restrictions in the 1954-1960 Formula. Fuel wasn't restricted until 1958, and Mercedes and Connaught tried all-enveloping bodywork, and Vanwall a perspex-encloed cockpit.

You beat me to it! There were a lot of 'specials' that utilised as their base vehicle a road going sports car (e.g. Jag XK120). Several were seen on the hills and even more in Libre races.

[FerrariV12]

Speaking as a relative youngster who only remembers motor racing from 1991 onwards I've often fantasized about races or series where the rule book just says the car can be no longer than X, no wider than Y and have an engine no bigger than Z, and specify nothing about the layout of the car, you'd get some great variety surely. Maybe it wouldn't be sustainable in the long run but it'd be fun while it lasted.

Having said that, it seems these days just having a field with more than one make of car/engine/tyre is too much to ask in a lot of cases...

[ensign14]

With due respect to the general incredulity at the appearance of the XK 120 Jaguar in the 1950 Pescara GP, the starting grid for the 1957 Naples (Formula 1) Grand Prix apparently included a 'closed vehicle', the Lancia-Marino of Mario Brandoli. I gather this was a Lancia Aurelia.

This was probably Brandoli's F1 special, Brandoli himself was an ex-Maserati mechanic who created a series of Aurelia-based etceterinis and F1 was a logical extension. The only pic of it I have shows it unpainted and appears to date from 1955. He was 32 seconds away from pole, so an Aurelia might have been a better bet.

[Sharman]

Ensign
There was a saying extant in the 50s/60s "you'd be better off selling the car and buying a driver"

[D-Type]

David Hodges in A-Z of Grand Prix Cars describes the Lancia Marino thus:

This obscure Formula 1 special by Marino Brandolfi made just one race appearance, slowly and for only a few laps before it retired in the 1957 Naples GP. Broadly it comprised lancia Aurelia components ~

So, presumably not a 'closed vehicle.'

[wenoopy]

David Hodges in A-Z of Grand Prix Cars describes the Lancia Marino thus:

So, presumably not a 'closed vehicle.'

I guess not. I am remembering things I read (or thought I had read) about 50 years ago. But the term "closed vehicle" in a motor racing context came from somewhere, and I think 'Jenks' had something to do with it. When my 1950's "Motor Sport" disc arrives I will explore further.

Jenks's "The Racing Driver" has a photo of the starting grid at Naples 1957 and a Porsche RSK, a Maserati A6GCS, and an OSCA are visible. Unfortunately Brandoli's corner of the grid isn't shown.

[wenoopy]

This was probably Brandoli's F1 special, Brandoli himself was an ex-Maserati mechanic who created a series of Aurelia-based etceterinis and F1 was a logical extension. The only pic of it I have shows it unpainted and appears to date from 1955. He was 32 seconds away from pole, so an Aurelia might have been a better bet.

There is a photo at http://it.wikipedia....cia_Aurelia_B20 of the start of the 1957 Naples GP from the opposite side of the track to the one in "The Racing Driver". This has the Brandoli car ringed in red, but definition is poor and one can only assume that it is an open-wheeler. The item says he also built a sports version. Comparison of the 2 photos suggests that Halford's 250F is being push-started and that Volonterio has crept up in his 250F into a gap on the opposite side of the grid!

[ensign14]

Better definition here. Certainly open wheel.

Volonterio actually overtook someone? Wow.

[wenoopy]

Better definition here. Certainly open wheel.

Volonterio actually overtook someone? Wow.

Thanks for that, ensign14. Yes, mostly Volonterio seemed to be there only for the wine women and song (if he was there at all).

While still considering the Naples F1 Grands Prix, Berardo Taraschi ran his Ferrari 166 Special in 1955-56-57 and was a finisher twice, albeit a slow one. While the car appears in grid photos, I have never seen a proper picture of it.

[lowdrag]

Interesting thread. I've been in correspondence with Ian Stewart on a different subject so I'll email him and get his recollections of the days gone by and report back on what he says.