12 replies to this topic

[WRCOTTER]

I am running an Arden head on my 1275 cc Mini Cooper. I need copies of some period rules which address the use of an Arden Head on a Mini. Rules regarding the use of Weber carbs on a Mini would be helpful too. Can anyone help me out here?

[Ray Bell]

You need Buford...

He raced Minis in the early seventies in the US.

[Mac Lark]

Milan will know for sure - no doubt DMcK as well - but I recall Mary Carney running an 8 port Ardun head on her Mini in NZ.

If I'm right, it was sub 1000cc.

BTW, Mary Carney's husband Jim was one of the people that helped put Jimmy Richards on the road to where he is now.

[275 GTB-4]

Hey WR...I had to search for your location....Seattle...I know people here in Australia with Ardens but that ain't gunna help you find period rules in your neck o the woods....

Can I suggest you hop onto the Minimania website and ask there......or contact your local Mini car club and ask if anyone raced in the period and knew of Ardens equipped people....good luck

[RTH]

In 1967/8 the works and cooper car co teams ran 8 port cross flow heads in the British saloon car championship, about the same time Jeff Goodliffe ran his 8 port Mini in the British Hillclimb Championship.

There were both iron and aluminium 8 ports Lucas and Tecalemit-Jackson fuel injection, 4 motorcycle Amal carburetters and Webber 40 DCOE's

Have a look at www.minispares.com the Mini Spares Centre in Potters Bar Herts UK they could probably still sell you a new one or anything else for the original Mini (they are probably the best in the country) and have been in business for 35 years

[ggnagy]

For most vintage race groups in the US, you need either the SCCA GCR or the appropriate FIA ruleset for the period to which you intend to prepare your car. Minis in the US were classified as C and D sedan in the vintage/historic period and most all parts had to be factory homoglated and appear on FIA recognition forms. I don't recall that anything but the factory 5 port head was homoglated for that purpose. At some point in the 70's however, intake manifold was more or less free, and since carburation was only restricted to choke size and number, so you can probably stuff a 40DCOE in your speedometer pod. I do know that there is a Spreen vintage racing a mini in Texas, and that Jim Boffo still has a car dealership in the Beaver Falls, PA area. Both were SCCA national champs in minis in the early 70s. You might try hunting them down. For general information, you might try
vintage sedan racer group
link to various historic SCCA rules and FIA rules.

Alot of MG t-type guys like the FIA rules cause they can put on Laystall heads and other items you would have never seen in period on a SCCA Production class grid.

There is allways the other option... Make whatever period, but not homoglated changes to the mini you want, and enter it as a F/Modified car

[WRCOTTER]

Thanks for all your rapid responses. I need specific rules to continue running the car with the Ardun head. This info will be helpful.
Which rules did the British Saloon Car Championship and the British Hillclimb Championship under? How can I get copies?

[RS2000]

The British Hillclimb Championship then would have been virtually "anything goes" (the saloon class degenerated into sports racing cars with plastic Skoda panels before being brought under some semblance of control in 1991).
Crucially the British Saloon Car Championship ran to Appendix J Group 5 in 66-69 (head was free), not Group2 (which, as has already been mentioned above, required standard inlet manifold until mid 70's). The "works" cars used the iron (Weslake) head in racing and rallying (not sure if 7 or 8 port but apparently there was no performance advantage of 8 over 7 because firing sequence didnt use the same port at same time). Steve Neal (father and team manager for current BTCC racer Matt) drove an Arden car in the BSCC at same time. The first Rally appearance of the 7/8 port head was the (cancelled the night before, for Foot and Mouth disease outbreak) 1967 RAC Rally (which had Group 5 and 6 categories that year). An underbonnet photo of the one car, for Timo Makinen, is pictured in Peter Browning's book The Works Minis (I also have an exterior photo of it I took the day of the cancelled event).

[RTH]

BMC homologated the Mini-Cooper 'S' with the FIA for 1968 FIA recognition form no.5028 for Group 1 series production touring, crucially all the important Group 2 parts are then listed in the amendments at the end.

The iron 8-port head was part no. C-AEG 612 (Group 2 )

The Aluminium 8-port head waspart no. C-AHT 346 (Group 2 )

Inlet valves at 35.6mm Exhaust valves at 29.3mm

The car in that guise was ready to go in the Nov '67 RAC Rally (that was cancelled)

BMC did all this development for rallying , the racing was something of a spin off with satellite teams in '68 &'69

In practice the conventional 5 port head with a pair of split 45 Webbers (to give straight inlet tracts) proved as powerful and a lot less trouble than the lucas injected 8-ports it took until '69 to make the crossflow head more powerful just as the works were shutting up shop on a full competition programme.

Needless to say they had endless trouble with the FIA with its French bias who tried to ban almost every modification so there was a lot of doubt over legality and what should be in what group of modification.

In 1969 Jim Whitehouse's Arden team prepared and entered a 1 litre car for Alec poole in the 1000cc class of the British saloon car championship which he went on to win.

You can still purchase the original homologation papers from the Motor sports Association (formally the RAC) Motor Sports House, Riverside Park, Colnbrook, Slough, SL3 OHG United Kingdom , tel : 01753 765000 I can't see either a website or an e-mail address on any of their current paperwork - but they must have one you will have to Google for it.

Best of luck - this may not be that straight forward.

[ggnagy]

Originally posted by RTH
BMC homologated the Mini-Cooper 'S' with the FIA for 1968 FIA recognition form no.5028 for Group 1 series production touring, crucially all the important Group 2 parts are then listed in the amendments at the end.

The iron 8-port head was part no. C-AEG 612 (Group 2 )

The Aluminium 8-port head waspart no. C-AHT 346 (Group 2 )

Inlet valves at 35.6mm Exhaust valves at 29.3mm

SCCA also had that funny little requirement about only model years that were sold in the US (forget the number requirements at the time) so for 68, it would definately be FIA Grp 2 rules. I'll go out on a limb here, but if the race group is North West enough, they might also accept CASC(?) rules. Canada got the mini in 68 and beyond.

As I also pointed out, the car would be perfectly legal to run Modified.

[RS2000]

The MSA :
http://www.msauk.org/

Someone had a copy of the Cooper S homologation papers on line (from the BMC archives) but the site wont open now (and it wasnt the final version of the papers, which would have been dated 1970 or 71). It was first homologated in Group 1 of course just in time for the 66 Monte but that would not have been of any help to when 8 port heads were first homologated into Group 2. Unfortunately I gave away my (final version) of the papers with the car I sold in 1978...

[RS2000]

One other point. It appears the 8 port head is allowed on a Cooper S in UK "Post Historic" rallying but not in "Historic" rallying. The cut off date between the 2 categories is 31 December 1967. The definition here is that it must be proved to have been used in rallying "in period" , not necessarily homologated.

[WRCOTTER]

My drop dead date on rules is 12/31/69. Any Production car rules under SCCA or FIA would be good, except "mod" groups because my car didn't run the Ardun head "in period". It was a racer in period but with a stock head and SUs. I really need the FIA papers for an Ardun head.
Thank you all for the help so far. I think we are close.