13 replies to this topic

[F1Fanatic.co.uk]

In The Life of Ayrton Senna Tom Rubython makes several references to the fact that Senna had visited the site of his fatal accident in the April before the crash, and enquired as to why there was so little protection for a driver in the event of an accident there. As we all know, the Tamburello wall couldn't be moved because of the river flowing just behind hit.

Rubython argues that had a belted tyre barrier been in place, Senna would have survived the accident. Is this a fair argument?

Senna, tragically, hit the wall at just the right angle and speed for the tyre and suspension from the front right of the car to make contact with his head. Would a softer tyre barrier have prevented this, or was the speed he took to the wall too great for that to have saved him?

I just wondered what other people thought because Rubython is quite adament that a tyre wall at Tamburello would have saved Senna's life.

[BorderReiver]

Who knows? The Senna accident was a 1 in a thousand slice of bad luck. Tyre Barriers don't prohibit parts of the car flying off in the event of an impact. Potentially the same thing could've happened with a tyre barrier in place.

Ultimately however we are into such a realm of strospheric odds, percentages and luck, the addition of a Tyre Barrier would probably have little effect on the rest of the hideously misfortunate, random, variables that came together to kill Senna.

A Tyre barrier might have saved Senna, then again it might've not, hitting the wall with a fraction of a degree's more attitude might have saved Senna, then again it might've not, a few mph slower might've saved Senna, then again it might've not, a few mph faster might've saved Senna, then again it might've not. . .

You get the picture. . .

[VWV]

I agree with BorderReiver, who knows what would have happended. Would the the suspension piece that hit his helmet be deflected or caught by the tire barrier?

Tom Rubython when he edited F1 magazine for Bernie, would write and state his opinion on all sorts of things and would not let anyone change his mind and would beat it to death. He stated that any team not using a twin keel design is stupid and using a twin keel is the only way to go (I guess Ferrari is being silly winning 5 WC championships with an obsolete concept). I did not personally do not care for his style of writing and do not want to read anything that he publishes.

[stuartbrs]

When Luciano Burti`s Prost crashed at Spa in 2000, after contact with Irvine`s Jaguar, it hit the tyre barrier at hideous speed.. and seemed to go straight under them and smack the wall/armco behind them very hard... one of the more frightening crashes of recent times.. so no, I dont think they would have made much difference, but as Borderreiver points out, who knows??..

Maybe it was just Senna`s time to go...

[BuzzingHornet]

Tamburello was a fundamentally dangerous corner, if you go off there it was pretty much in the lap of the Gods as to what you hit and how you hit it. Senna was unlucky.

[BRG]

I agree that no-one can know for sure - after all, we are still not really sure why the accident happened in the first place. But instinctively, it seems to me that a tyre barrier would not have made things worse. And it might have made things better. The fact that Senna himself (who was not, I think, a noted proponenet of track safety?) had queried the safety of that corner suggests that it was indeed questionable and that more might have been done.

But in the end, it was as it was, and what happened, happened.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by VWV
I agree with BorderReiver, who knows what would have happended. Would the the suspension piece that hit his helmet be deflected or caught by the tire barrier?

Tom Rubython when he edited F1 magazine for Bernie, would write and state his opinion on all sorts of things and would not let anyone change his mind and would beat it to death. He stated that any team not using a twin keel design is stupid and using a twin keel is the only way to go (I guess Ferrari is being silly winning 5 WC championships with an obsolete concept). I did not personally do not care for his style of writing and do not want to read anything that he publishes.

Rubython's Senna book is (IMHO) a monumental piece of tat, written in a sub soap-opera style with wild speculation replacing hard fact, repetition replacing analysis, and sentiment replacing respect.

As BR said, the Senna accident was a freak - that suspension component could've broken off and hit him regardless of what kind of impact the car suffered. I don't think a tyre wall would've helped.

[ian senior]

No disrespect to anyone who has given their views here, but isn't it rather a futile question - and one (or similar) that could be asked in respect of, sadly, so many accidents? The only thing that would have saved him for certain from that accident on that day would be if he had decided to spend the day in bed instead of going motor racing in the afternoon.

Lots of similar parallels too - if only Mike Hailwood hadn't fancied fish and chips for dinner one day, he might still be here. If Tony Brise had suddenly got the jitters about flying and had decided to take the train back home, he might still be here. If Jim Clark had said, no, I'd rather race a sports car at Brands Hatch, he might still be here. And so on.

When your number is up - it's up.

[EcosseF1]

"Rubython's Senna book is (IMHO) a monumental piece of tat, written in a sub soap-opera style with wild speculation replacing hard fact, repetition replacing analysis, and sentiment replacing respect."

I totally agree, don't be like me and waste your money buying it...

[Peter Morley]

As someone said the answer is really irrelevant, but there are many things that could have been different that could have caused another outcome.

Keeping armco barriers rather than concrete walls for one.
Putting a tyre barrier in place is another.
Using steel rather than carbon suspension components.
Stopping the race after the startline crash rather than using the Pace car.
Cancelling the event after Ratzenberger's accident
etc etc

[Eric McLoughlin]

Armco barriers have caused as many fatalities as concrete walls have.

Also, putting a tyre barrier in front of the wall at Tamburello would have reduced the run off area. So, in most instances, any impact with the tyres would have been at a higher speed than an impact with the wall itself.

Luck was the major factor at play in Sennas's death.

[philippe charuest]

ALL books published in the first years after the death of a pilot (or any public personality in that matter) are trash by definition .anyway theres not much thing more boring then modern drivers biography

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Peter Morley
.....Cancelling the event after Ratzenberger's accident.....

Kind of strange, really... for many years, the likelihood of a death was always with us. And it was never considered a reason to stop the 'show going on'...

The previous fatalities were Villeneuve and Paletti, right? Both would have been more likely to stop the show going on. But they didn't.

But all of this brings to mind a quote from David McKay, quite off-topic, but here goes anyway:

"The truth is that the South Australians realised Mallala wasn't ready for a major race; but under the present ridiculous rotational system it was their turn to hold the GP... so SA was forced into a premature GP... it was too late to do anything, and so the show went on - as shows have been going on all over Australia for the past decade, on circuits that are always going to be better but never are (Longford being the outstanding exception)."

[Collombin]

Originally posted by petefenelon


Rubython's Senna book is (IMHO) a monumental piece of tat, written in a sub soap-opera style with wild speculation replacing hard fact, repetition replacing analysis, and sentiment replacing respect.

Having read several of his vindictive, biased and melodramatic columns in some glossy F1 magazine a few years back, I chose not to buy his Senna book - had it been by any other author I would probably have done so. Glad I seem to have saved some money and a precious few hours of my life